Anyone else think Metal Sonic's getting stale?

[Nintenboi]

I love Metal as much as the next guy but I feel like he's become a bit stale. I'm just kinda tired of Metal Sonic popping in for a boring race with another remix Stardust Speedway Bad Future then doing nothing else. I just want Sega to do something new with him. What do you guys think?

[Sonictrainer]

Honestly, not counting Sonic Colors: Ultimate, I'm glad we're seeing more of Eggman's son.

In terms of creations Eggman can rely on to help him with his plans, Metal Sonic seems like a perfect option.

Also, unlike some of the other characters, I feel like we've only seen him every other game:

• He was the main antagonist of Heroes
• We didn't see him again until Sonic Rivals, Sonic Generations, Sonic 4: Episode 2, Sonic Mania, & Sonic Forces
• He was absent during 2006, Unleashed, OG Colors, & Lost World

Although I do have to agree that the remixed Stardust Speedway Zone Boss Battles are starting to get repetitive. At least in Sonic 4: Episode 2, he got some new moves, a new theme song, and his own flying ship.

Speaking of Metals, I wouldn't mind seeing a Modern Version of Metal Knuckles...besides the one we got in Sonic Advance.

Or Metal Shadow, Metal Silver, Metal Blaze, Metal Big, or Metal Chaotix.

[Diogenes]

Metal is kind of tragically underutilized. The games have never really taken the time to explore him as a character or what his existence means to other characters (Sonic most notably, but I can think of interesting angles regarding a few other characters), except for that one game where they just slap a generic final boss template over him aside from a line or two of lip service. I don't think he appears so often that a typical "cool boss fight for cool boss fight's sake" appearance is a problem, but I would like if they could dedicate a game, or at least a side-story within a game, to Metal being more than just a cool fight.

[charmsb]

Well, if you look at the main media, yeah he's pretty boring and not being served justice. He has such a cool design; probably one of the most well-designed characters I've seen ever. But yeah, he's just there to make weird noises and serve a boring boss battle.

BUUUUUUUT in the comics?! I am LOVING Metal. They give him a small semblance of character and introspection there, which makes him all the more likable. He's still cold, calculated, and focused, but you see a glimpse of humanity once in a while.

Spoilers for comics:

Spoiler

There's a part of Tales from the Metal Virus that focuses specifically on Metal, and it's just great.

 

Other than that, the Sonic Channel (I think?) Monthly story featuring him was great too. Even if I had to read in translated Japanese.

[Nintenboi]

1 hour ago, Sonictrainer said:

Honestly, not counting Sonic Colors: Ultimate, I'm glad we're seeing more of Eggman's son.

In terms of creations Eggman can rely on to help him with his plans, Metal Sonic seems like a perfect option.

Also, unlike some of the other characters, I feel like we've only seen him every other game:

• He was the main antagonist of Heroes
• We didn't see him again until Sonic Rivals, Sonic Generations, Sonic 4: Episode 2, Sonic Mania, & Sonic Forces
• He was absent during 2006, Unleashed, OG Colors, & Lost World

Although I do have to agree that the remixed Stardust Speedway Zone Boss Battles are starting to get repetitive. At least in Sonic 4: Episode 2, he got some new moves, a new theme song, and his own flying ship.

Speaking of Metals, I wouldn't mind seeing a Modern Version of Metal Knuckles...besides the one we got in Sonic Advance.

Or Metal Shadow, Metal Silver, Metal Blaze, Metal Big, or Metal Chaotix.

Yeah I think Sonic 4 Episode: 2 was definitely a step in the right direction in terms of shaking up Metal and yeah he is more of an every other game character. I just think his battles are becoming a bit boring and I just want Sega to try doing something new with him before he becomes the Sonic equivalent of the Koopalings.

[charmsb]

3 minutes ago, Nintenboi said:

 before he becomes the Sonic equivalent of the Koopalings.

No worries. We already have the Koopalings but worse.

[Kuzu]

I feel like if they actually did expand on Metal Sonic's character, you would run the risk of ruining the parts that people like about him...namely being a cool-looking Sonic robot. You might think that's a copout, but that is mostly Metal Sonic's appeal to the people I've spoken to about him; he only has to show up, look cool, and people are satisfied. It helps that he doesn't have a voice, so he doesn't even get those complaints either. 

Unfortunately, it makes him the least interesting rival character to me. People can bitch and moan about Shadow all they want, but he's got way more going for him as a character than Metal Sonic generally does. 

 

 

At the very least, I liked what the spin offs have generally done with him in exploring him beyond just being Eggman's mook, and games dabbled in something before pulling the plug, but I doubt we'll get anything that deviates too far from him just being an extension of Eggman for the sake of branding. 

[SBR2]

I don't hate Metal Sonic but honestly outside of Heroes I've never really thought twice about him. Like I don't know he's always kinda been like a boring general type character. 

[Mr. Ion]

Metal's design is cool as hell but he is somewhat underused (though I will happily listen to as many remixes of Stardust Speedway Bad Future as Sega feels like giving me because that song is amazing). I kind of prefer him not having a voice because it puts Metal in sharper contrast to Sonic, who is a fast talker and always quips. I think the IDW comics have been doing good, and anyways you don't need a character to speak to advance a narrative. Show, don't tell. He needs more than a boss fight though. Give him his own campaign, a small spinoff, whatever. Use him more, but use him right, don't just stick him in everything because it's cool.

[Iko]

30 minutes ago, SBR2 said:

I don't hate Metal Sonic but honestly outside of Heroes I've never really thought twice about him. Like I don't know he's always kinda been like a boring general type character. 

Same here.

I've never been a big fan of Metal Sonic and overall all the characters that are modified versions of other more popular character (Sonic but *evil robot*). I have nothing against him but I think he's not much interesting outside of looking cool... and even about that, I don't find him that much cool either.

I miss the times when Eggman built a new different Sonic (or other character) android specifically and only for that one game; it was still a cliche, but at least the design was always new and the set of abilities was a surprise every time. Mecha Sonic looked way more badass than Metal IMO, even though his real design is a bit confused and you have to imagine it by looking at a few pixels.

Those other robots did have less personality than Metal, but it felt like they added personality to Eggman instead, who was trying hard to replicate Sonic and his powers through science. That part of the character is now completely gone, and we have a recurring Metal instead: it's implied that Eggman doesn't need to research on copying Sonic anymore because he alredy succeded with Metal, so he doesn't try anymore (which is boring IMO).

[StaticMania]

1 hour ago, Nintenboi said:

....before he becomes the Sonic equivalent of the Koopalings.

He's pretty consistent, which is what seems to be your problem with him, so this is a lot less likely to happen.

Him getting different types of boss fights would be a good thing or different personalities in spin-offs.

Interesting stuff.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Stale? The guy’s hardly even been used in any remotely decent way, and when they even try they basically half-ass his portrayal.

If anything, Metal is just a step above Tails and Knuckles in that his character hasn’t been completely butchered, but that’s a double edge in that they really don’t bother trying with him.

Make no mistake that he’s often overblown for this very reason, but he has yet to reach the level of lame staleness that even Tails has reached at the moment.

[GentlemanX]

I'd like to see him put into more situations in the games where he can "emote" more like he does in the IDW comics. He's probably one of the better interpretations given to us by that series. To be fair though, he's very rarely used in the games to any significant extent. Even his debut in Sonic CD is pretty bare bones, less than Knuckles gets in Sonic 3, unless you count the sadism of his projection you have to destroy to create a good future. He's intimidating sure, like he is in Sonic the Fighters, but that makes him less of a good character and more of a good boss battle. Knuckles Chaotix and Sonic Heroes both attempt to do more with him, but both to mostly little results - his dialogue in Heroes at least hinting there was more to him than we've gotten to see. His one line of dialogue in Sonic Generations I find interesting, since it sort of reinforces that personal grudge he has against Sonic. My favorite uses of him in the games though are Sonic 4 and oddly enough Rise of Lyric, since we see him more active in those titles than the rest (yes, he's playable in Rivals 2, but he's essentially a mouth piece for Eggman). But if we could see more of him being Eggman's pride and joy and personally intimidating the rest of the cast in cutscenes like in IDW and the Hesse shorts it'd be appreciated.

[batson]

As a long time Metal Sonic fan, I'm still mostly just glad that the character is being featured as frequently as he has been in the past decade or so. I think back to the days of circa 1999-2009 when, with the exception of Sonic Heroes, Metal Sonic was an incredibly rare and minor character. It used to bug the hell out of me how underused he was. Then the whole 90's nostalgia trend started around 2010 and Metal thankfully once again became one of the series most frequently appearing characters.

[MetalSkulkBane]

Well, I already made extensive statement what I think about Metal as character.

Generally keeping Metal Sonic silent and sidelined is not perfect, but it does mean he was never 'ruined forver' like some. You gotta appreciate little things about him.
- In Rise of Lyric he tries to open doors same way Sonic did, but he can't
- In Rivals 2 he damages himself to give chaos emerald to Shadow. What that mean is open to interpretation but fairly interesting
- And of course Heroes, Sonic Ova, Archie and IDW gave him most interesting moments

At very worst I think he's harmless. Yes, even since Generations he's been almost everywhere, but so what? Most of his fights are fairly pretty cool.

In a franchise where most characters are underused I think he found comfortable niche. I would love a little more, bu overall I'm satisfied.

[Wraith]

I'm glad he appears more now. I always wanted him to be Eggman's "dragon" and they seem to be rolling with that. The only problem I have with him now is the same problem I've always had. It feels like he should pose a significant roadblock for Sonic/the player but he just...doesn't?

I think he has a cool design, but there's usually not an interesting fight to go with that design. I was disappointed with how Sonic CD used him and that was probably his best appearance in the entire series, so yeah.

Metal Sonic's design implies a certain level of danger or tension that just doesn't really pan out when the actual difficulty is so low. I like the whole race-boss concept but they've never really done it that well.

Doesn't really help that he's usually a footnote or a stepping stone toward the actual conflict in-universe. It feels like Sonic having a doppleganger that is literally just faster than him would hold more significance but it's rarely touched on. You could probably write in a rivalry akin to what SA2 tried without nearly as much outside bloat to drag it down, but Sonic barely reacts to Metal's existence most of the time.

TLDR: I'm glad he's back but I wish he was less of a pushover.
 

[Kuzu]

Sonic has fought bigger and badder opponents long after Metal Sonic, while the latter has been pretty much doing the same thing since Sonic CD. 

He doesn't even have the benefit of coming in a different machines like Eggman does to surprise the player.

I don't think the problem is Metal Sonic himself, but that they're really uncreative with him in terms of boss fights; as OP said, it's gonna be a racing boss with a Stardust Speedway remix.

[Salamander]

I've never really cared for Heroes's use of Metal Sonic, if I'm honest; his role in that game doesn't appear to stem from or have anything at all to do with being a Metal version of Sonic.  The plot would make more sense with an original Eggman robot gone haywire.  Metal Sonic's just there as fanservice.

This isn't to say that I don't think there are things you can do with Metal Sonic; even a silent Metal Sonic - which is an aspect I would keep, honestly; it strikes me as very Eggman to create a version of Sonic who can neither emote nor talk back.  I think heightening their similarities and their contrasts, and the idea that Metal Sonic feels some sense of inadequacy, would be interesting.

I'd also mess with his design more often!  Always returning to the core, but I think something you could do with Metal Sonic boss fights would be to give him his own equipment or upgrades, if you like, which is clearly separate and can be knocked off; additional boosters on his feet, rocket launchers on his arms, things like that.  Sort of like the extra bells and whistles the playable cast get as visible upgrades in Adventure.  Metal versions of other characters would be fun, too, as new spins on the idea of Metal Sonic, and versions of Sonic's friends as his enemies.  Let's face it, a lot of the appeal is in the design anyway, that's exactly why fans have designed Metal versions of everyone and their dog.  In short, embrace the character's toyetic appeal.

[Nintenboi]

30 minutes ago, Kuzu said:

Sonic has fought bigger and badder opponents long after Metal Sonic, while the latter has been pretty much doing the same thing since Sonic CD. 

...I don't think the problem is Metal Sonic himself, but that they're really uncreative with him in terms of boss fights; as OP said, it's gonna be a racing boss with a Stardust Speedway remix.

These are the exact things I mean. I don't think Metal as a character needs to change nor do I think he should become another sidelined Sonic character, he just needs an interesting boss fight. Something to breathe some new life into him.

[Kuzu]

I do kind of get why they don't deviate much with him. The last time they did that was Metal Overlord, which was divisive.

So its a conflict of keeping the character's core in tact, but still making him feel fresh, which is something they haven't really been able to do.

And since Metal can't talk, it makes it even harder for him to really establish a dynamic with anyone when everyone else has a voice.

[Soniman]

I think the opposite, I would like to see more of him especially in a story capacity. I think he's a cool character with a cool design and I wish got more implementation in the main series 

I'll go to bat for the Heroes implementation (big shock) because I thought it was really cool seeing the lengths Metal would go just to prove he's better than Sonic, like he transformed his body and set sights on world domination but it's all in service to his original purpose of proving Sonic's superior and that's all its ever been about.

But that's the only time his character has been explored in the games and not even all that in depth. I still can't believe they had the balls to put Metal on the cover of Forces yet he doesn't ACTUALLY appear in the game, just another phantom clone from that joke of a plot point, how lame 

[Dr. Mechano]

4 hours ago, Kuzu said:

He doesn't even have the benefit of coming in a different machines like Eggman does to surprise the player.

I don't think the problem is Metal Sonic himself, but that they're really uncreative with him in terms of boss fights; as OP said, it's gonna be a racing boss with a Stardust Speedway remix.

I would argue that Metal Sonic's equivalent to Eggman's mechs (with their ability to surprise the player) are - at least in theory - the levels he races you on.

An Eggman boss fight typically takes place in a small isolated area. Metal Sonic has the advantage of his races spanning a huge obstacle course filled with deadly traps and surprises. There's so much potential for creativity there, so that - even if you race the same character with roughly the same abilities over and over in multiple games - no experience has to be the same, because the environments can drastically alter the gameplay of a Metal race.

I don't think they've really taken as much advantage of that potential as they could. I'm just saying it's there. 

[Cosmos Rogue]

Metal Sonic is a good example of like 90% of what is wrong with the Sonic series. When Metal Sonic debuted in CD he was a cool boss fight and had a cool character design. Unfortunately, Sonic Team has never had much idea of what to do with him since then. Sonic Team as a developer seems to be constitutionally incapable of of exploring, expanding, and iterating on their existing ideas. This is why a speedy platformer series evolved to include fishing, shooting gameplay with clunky tank controls, and beat 'em up gameplay. The only way Sonic Team knows how to revisit their old ideas is to just rehash them with little to no innovation. In Metal Sonic's case this means we either get the Stardust Speedway boss for the umpteenth time, or we get something completely out of left field like Metal Sonic, a character all about being a hedgehog's doppelganger, transforming into a dragon.

So do I think Metal Sonic is stale? Yeah. But he's stale in the same way everything else in the series is right now.

[Dr. Mechano]

2 hours ago, Kuzu said:

I do kind of get why they don't deviate much with him. The last time they did that was Metal Overlord, which was divisive.

I feel like the situation was more divisive than the fact that he could talk.

"Metal Sonic the cool Sonic-type robot" vs. "Metal Sonic the giant robot dragon who betrayed and disguised himself as Eggman for 90% of the game" is where I think at least some of the antipathy toward Heroes Metal comes from. Everything that makes Metal Sonic cool (that he's this sleek, fast, Sonic-sized robot) was left out of Heroes.

I genuinely think regular Metal talking would be received just fine by most people.

[Cosmos Rogue]

3 minutes ago, Dr. Mechano said:

I genuinely think regular Metal talking would be received just fine by most people.

Well I'd prefer Metal Sonic talking to the weird noises he makes today.