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If Orbot and Cubot were included in Adventure remakes...


Austroid

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23 minutes ago, CrownSlayer’s Shadow said:

They wouldn’t even be playable, so that’s still a non-issue. Never mind that “too many characters” was never the problem with Sonic Adventure to begin with.

Cast bloat can negatively affect stories too. They don't even do a great job fleshing out all of the ones that are there in either game.  Last thing I'd want to see is for them to add more and waste time + resources accommodating for them. I do hate Orbot and Cubot, but I'd have the exact same answer if you asked me about adding Blaze instead.

 

15 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

Even if he's out there piloting mechs and whatnot he's not going to be hanging around the heroes 24/7, revealing all his thoughts and feelings to them.

It'd probably be better if his plans caught the player by surprise more often. We don't always need to see his side of things. Even if we did, SA1 and 2 already had that covered with Gamma and Shadow/Rouge respectively.
 

12 minutes ago, Dr. Mechano said:

I mean, that's true. But plenty of people hate Shadow too, and it didn't stop Sonic Team from putting him in tons of games, including his own.

Honestly, I think if Shadow-haters can deal with all that, Orbot/Cubot-haters can put up with some totally nonintrusive cutscene appearances here and there.

Except you guys couldn't deal with that. The fact that you couldn't is why 'Shadow fever' was over in 5 years, but these knuckleheads are still hanging around. I'm not going around asking them to go back and add Shadow to Sonic 2, so let's show some courtesy here, yeah?

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20 minutes ago, Dr. Mechano said:

I mean, that's true. But plenty of people hate Shadow too, and it didn't stop Sonic Team from putting him in tons of games, including his own.

Honestly, I think if Shadow-haters can deal with all that, Orbot/Cubot-haters can put up with some totally nonintrusive cutscene appearances here and there.

You're preaching to the choir as I have no problem with the duo  I'm just saying in the same vein as the zeti some would rather see them gone entirely rather than have faith in them being "fixed" by the writing of future games

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Remember when things were just allowed to be fun and didn't need to have a deep lore reason to exist?

Orbot and Cubot are just to give Eggman some flunkies to bounce off of. It's not that deep.

But then again I forget literally any levity ever is a bad thing and this series must always constantly be deadly serious at every single turn.

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1 minute ago, Wraith said:

It'd probably be better if his plans caught the player by surprise more often. We don't always need to see his side of things.

If they want to keep something a secret they can keep it a secret, shapebots or no shapebots.

1 minute ago, Wraith said:

Even if we did, SA1 and 2 already had that covered with Gamma and Shadow/Rouge respectively.

I am in no way suggesting that they put Orbot and Cubot into SA/SA2 remakes for that (among other) reason(s). But like, that's also the point? Some of Eggman's best appearances have been when he's got other characters on his side to interact with. There's not always going to be some new plot-relevant sentient being allied with him, having some goofy henchmen around so there's always an option for him to interact with, that can safely be pushed into the background if there is some new hotshot bad guy teamup going on, is a good thing.

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25 minutes ago, Wraith said:

Cast bloat can negatively affect stories too. They don't even do a great job fleshing out all of the ones that are there in either game.  Last thing I'd want to see is for them to add more and waste time + resources accommodating for them. I do hate Orbot and Cubot, but I'd have the exact same answer if you asked me about adding Blaze instead.

We’re talking of just 2 side characters out of a “whopping” main cast of eight to ten in the Adventure games. 

There are shows on Nick Jr with far more characters per episode than that, so you can miss me with this “cast bloat” nonsense over two added characters who would mostly just be aiding the villains in the background.
 

This isn’t the same as throwing Blaze into the Adventures—you actually have to change the games’ whole plots and entire narratives just to fit her in and even make any sense. But Orbot and Cubot wouldn’t require anything that drastic, they’d barely hinder or bloat anything just from their inclusion when they could do things like manage the Egg Carrier or Eggman’s bases while he’s away, provide intel to the villains, or even work as added weapon modules for Eggman if you wanted to talk gameplay.

They’d actually be less bloat than Big the Cat was in the first Adventure.

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5 minutes ago, Wraith said:

Except you guys couldn't deal with that. The fact that you couldn't is why 'Shadow fever' was over in 5 years, but these knuckleheads are still hanging around. I'm not going around asking them to go back and add Shadow to Sonic 2, so let's show some courtesy here, yeah?

He was still playable in Forces (got his own small story, but also full playability in all of Sonic's stages as well), so while the Shadow fever of the 00s has indeed died down, I think it's fair to say he's still pretty prevalent in the series.

I don't care for him personally, but I accept that this is just the way things are, and it's better to focus on how he can be improved to better fit the games than grumble about how things would be better off without him. That's clearly never going to happen, so it's best to think about how to improve how the character is utilized instead of just being mad that he exists.

Same with Orbot and Cubot. Some fans dislike the idea of Eggman having funny robot henchmen on principle. Okay, well. They're here. And it looks like they're going to be here for the foreseeable future. Be mad about that, or think of ways they could be utilized that better suit your tastes.

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Just now, thumbs13 said:

From what I've seen of Colors Ultimate, there isn't a secret Zavok boss fight or something, so I don't think you have to worry about remakes diverting from the originals too much.

Metal Sonic is a major addition, to be fair. Character who wasn't in the original showing up as a race/"boss" encounter of sorts.

Though yeah, people on all sides of the aisle generally like Metal Sonic so that's hardly a controversial addition.

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Metal Sonic is nowhere near as controversial as the likes of Shadow or Zavok, so him being retroactively added will be accepted.

 

 

To play devil's advocate though; I do get where Wraith is coming from. Orbot and Cubot really don't contribute much to the narratives they're in besides comic relief, which will vary on the person of how funny they are.

Besides that, they're passive characters and nothing more. For comparison, Scratch and Grounder were out in the field actively trying to confront Sonic, which had the effect of elevating Eggman's status when he had to personally step in after too many failure.

 

So on that end, I can understand why they have some detractors. They're pretty embelic of the Modern era...which is already divisive within this fanbase among a vocal part of it anyway 

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Then give them more to contribute beyond comic relief. It’s not impossible.

Guys, we’ve been through this song and dance long enough to know more than just getting rid of things out of dislike.

People in this very fandom are quick to say “if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.” Yet when something is broken, whether or not you see it as such (and trust me, there are some problems), the first solution is never to actually fix it, but to just throw it away and not bother. Little wonder why things don’t actually improve.

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18 minutes ago, Kuzu said:

Besides that, they're passive characters and nothing more. For comparison, Scratch and Grounder were out in the field actively trying to confront Sonic, which had the effect of elevating Eggman's status when he had to personally step in after too many failure.

Oh, I completely agree here.

I like Orbot and Cubot, but I'd junk them in a heartbeat for Scratch and Grounder (and Coconuts!). Funnier characters, plus they'd fill the niche of both Eggman's goofy henchmen and a quirky miniboss squad that actually fights the heroes.

They also aesthetically fit the design of the classic Badniks a lot more, which I'm definitely for.

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People are gonna always gonna be biased with their likes and dislikes, no amount of objectivity or logic works when dealing with emotions and personal gripes.

 

That said, comic relief characters always have an uphill battle, either you find them funny or you don't without much in between. Especially in a fandom mostly made up of preadolecents.

 

As I said, giving them a larger role beyond comic relief might alleviate that somewhat. Even if you don't find them funny or engaging, they're at least contributing something to the narrative.

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My biased take: Eggman works well with sidekicks and there is fun chemistry with the dumbots. I don't mind them at all.

In fact if there was a SA remake, I say put them in, if they were to change narrative, unless they choose to omit any kind of humour to keep it rather serious.

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1 hour ago, Dr. Mechano said:

He was still playable in Forces (got his own small story, but also full playability in all of Sonic's stages as well), so while the Shadow fever of the 00s has indeed died down, I think it's fair to say he's still pretty prevalent in the series.

I don't care for him personally, but I accept that this is just the way things are, and it's better to focus on how he can be improved to better fit the games than grumble about how things would be better off without him. That's clearly never going to happen, so it's best to think about how to improve how the character is utilized instead of just being mad that he exists.

Same with Orbot and Cubot. Some fans dislike the idea of Eggman having funny robot henchmen on principle. Okay, well. They're here. And it looks like they're going to be here for the foreseeable future. Be mad about that, or think of ways they could be utilized that better suit your tastes.

Nobody who likes Orbot or Cubot would want them to be geared toward my tastes, trust me.

 

1 hour ago, Diogenes said:

If they want to keep something a secret they can keep it a secret, shapebots or no shapebots.

I am in no way suggesting that they put Orbot and Cubot into SA/SA2 remakes for that (among other) reason(s). But like, that's also the point? Some of Eggman's best appearances have been when he's got other characters on his side to interact with. There's not always going to be some new plot-relevant sentient being allied with him, having some goofy henchmen around so there's always an option for him to interact with, that can safely be pushed into the background if there is some new hotshot bad guy teamup going on, is a good thing.

This is a fair point, but I can't say Orbot/Cubot have contributed as positively to the series as the sidekicks he had in the adventure games despite having way more chances.

I'd also argue that some of Eggman's best appearances don't involve sidekicks and few don't even give him dialogue at all. Maybe the concept of him having sidekicks isn't inherently bad but I'm hardly convinced that they need to be recurring characters.

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1 hour ago, Dr. Mechano said:

He was still playable in Forces (got his own small story, but also full playability in all of Sonic's stages as well), so while the Shadow fever of the 00s has indeed died down, I think it's fair to say he's still pretty prevalent in the series.

Small correction, he's only playable in stages without those QTE's, so no Death Egg or Luminous Forest etc. Probably excludes Boss fights and avatar team-up stages too.

As for the topic itself, after colours and lost world (and debatebly Forces even if they only appeared in like 2 cutscenes max), it's getting a bit tiring seeing only these guys to play off of Eggman. Ergo (Proto-Orbot) from Unleashed and Starline from the comics can prove that he's just as, if not more entertaining mingling with different kinds of personalities.

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I already said my piece; can Orbot and Cubot be improved upon as characters? Absolutely, any and every concept can always be improved upon. Do I think they are a blight upon this series and need to be changed so significantly? No. 

Sometimes you like a character and sometimes you don't, and that's' completely fine. I don't have to like every character in a series, nor do I need to irrevocably change said character to fit my own personal preferences. 

If people hate Orbot and Cubot and think they add little to the series fine, and if others think they're great comedic foils to Eggman, that's fine too. And that goes for the likes of similarly divisive characters like Shadow, or the Deadly Six as well. 

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1 hour ago, Dr. Mechano said:

I like Orbot and Cubot, but I'd junk them in a heartbeat for Scratch and Grounder (and Coconuts!). Funnier characters, plus they'd fill the niche of both Eggman's goofy henchmen and a quirky miniboss squad that actually fights the heroes.

They also aesthetically fit the design of the classic Badniks a lot more, which I'm definitely for.

I like Orbot and Cubot; I don't particularily care for their funny jokes or anything, I just like their design and I wouldn't mind them to stay. Though I've also been suggesting for a while that they should be used as minibosses too.

They can't directly fight Sonic & co, but they can turn into simple geometrical shapes: I think they should assemble with a bigger mech body just like Eggman's Egg Mobile does, and fight Sonic by controlling those mechs.

Orbot and Cubot's bossfights should be funnier than your usual eggman battles, but not much more funny than your usual Classic Sonic boss; in fact I think they would bring the same wacky feel of those Classic Sonic bosses in the modern version of the series.

As for the comparison with classic badniks, I do think they fit well too except for not being inspired by an animal.

I don't want them to be added to Adventure 1 and 2, but mainly because of continuity: a prototype of Orbot is seen for the first time in Sonic Unleashed, implying that prior to those events, the two robot assistants didn't even exist.

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The most I could see them go to put those two in the remakes is in way that doesn't interfere with the plot itself, like just having them float around the Egg Carrier or Final Egg, like they did with Cream in DX. I could also see them hanging in the background in the SA2 scenes with Eggman's computer at the Pyramid Base, to stay and look after it while he's out on the field (Just to react silently, they don't have to open their mouths once). Or maybe Orbit could become Team Dark's equivalent to Omochao, throwing out quips only when he's thrown or hit.

 

 

Outside of remakes, put Tribot in the games, and I could imagine the three combining together to form a bigger body that could potentially work for out of mech combat 

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The only way I could see that happening is if it's in a similar manner as Cream--its completely superfluous and presumably non-canon, but they float by in certain stages or level transitions.

That or maybe tagging along with ZERO ala Sonic X  if they want to expand the side stories.

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I found the perfect compromise. We will add Orbot and Cubot into every scene featuring Eggman in the SA1 and 2 remakes.

BUT

In SA1, ZERO will be replaced by Princess Elise and in SA2, Maria will be replaced by Marine the Raccoon using voice clips of Princess Elise.

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Guess I should comment on Orbot and Cubot since that seems to be happening now.

I like them well enough as the comical lackeys who do the menial tasks for Eggman in between boss fights and conquests. They've pretty much endured and mostly skirted by because they are so harmless and complementary to Eggman's character without being too intrusive or demanding to include compared to the rest of the cast. This is further proven by how Lost World and especially Forces mainly had them along to offer some sparse levity and make the other characters look more on top of things in comparison--the latter in particular had Eggman be more active in his global campaign and have Infinite present to interact with in a very different way.

On the topic of adding to them so that they contribute more to the series, you really don't need to do that for those exact reasons. The only other function they could have is if they somehow got a boss fight or two that Eggman or a Super Badnik doesn't/couldn't provide--depending on how you interpret the HD boss fights post Egg Beetle from Unleashed, we've never fought Cubot before and there's kind of a reason for that. The problem is how to make that work, let alone fun and distinct enough to meet those requirements.

4 hours ago, thumbs13 said:

From what I've seen of Colors Ultimate, there isn't a secret Zavok boss fight or something, so I don't think you have to worry about remakes diverting from the originals too much.

...that we know of... 👀

2 hours ago, Supah Berry said:

Outside of remakes, put Tribot in the games, and I could imagine the three combining together to form a bigger body that could potentially work for out of mech combat 

That'd be cool

58 minutes ago, SilJeff said:

I found the perfect compromise. We will add Orbot and Cubot into every scene featuring Eggman in the SA1 and 2 remakes.

BUT

In SA1, ZERO will be replaced by Princess Elise and in SA2, Maria will be replaced by Marine the Raccoon using voice clips of Princess Elise.

Now I'm imagining Elise going Kool Aid Man on a wall of TVs screens with grabby grabby hands

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7 hours ago, DabigRG said:

we've never fought Cubot before and there's kind of a reason for that. The problem is how to make that work, let alone fun and distinct enough to meet those requirements.

This way maybe? I mean, not literally the same boss, but bosses with the same "spirit" as this:

cubot.png.3feca3d4dc9eaca098c7187edd9c5ad1.png

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2 hours ago, batson said:

Orbot and Cubot has done nothing except fill up cutscenes with unfunny jokes. They're the only reccuring characters that I wish would go away completely. 

If they didn't get rid of every other character people hate, what makes you think they're gonna get rid of them

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