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Dreadknux
Message added by Dreadknux,

Split this from the Megathread as it was new news.

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9 minutes ago, Raphael Martins said:

When we are debating how well a game it's designed, you have to use better arguments than: "I had more fun playing", because people could have playing all sort of things. I could have fun playing bad games. This week I played Sonic Boom Rise of Lyric that's an awful and poorly designed game, but I had fun because I was curious about the game. You can't say a game is better designed just because you have more fun playing it.

Again, this is your personal preference, and this is valid, but you can't say the game isn't well-designed and well-crafted just because you don't enjoy the approach.

Well, I thought I did provide some pretty dang detailed analyses on the intracacies involved in exactly why, as the example you chose, Fire Mario is an engaging and fun experience, but those didn't make it through the ol' quotebox editorial process for whatever reason.

I admit I was less detailed in my critique of Colours, but that's only because I find it all so empty of interest and therefore unmemorable. Come Friday I might be able to be more specific about my examples of all the times it did nothing interesting with it's level design.

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User18091994
9 minutes ago, JezMM said:

Well, I thought I did provide some pretty dang detailed analyses on the intracacies involved in exactly why, as the example you chose, Fire Mario is an engaging and fun experience, but those didn't make it through the ol' quotebox editorial process for whatever reason.

You provide reasons why you enjoy Mario Galaxy more, but I didn't see a reason to consider Sonic Colors objectively flawed in the designing department when it comes to power ups. I don't like the Mario Galaxy power ups. The things that make the system engaging for you make it boring to me. The 2D Mario games and even some 3D ones have totally different approaches to the power ups, they act as extensions of Mario's move set, making you more powerful and making you able to reach different areas of the stages. The classic Mario power ups change the whole stage. When it comes to Mario Galaxy, they are very situational and linked to specific sections and to puzzles that have only one way of solving.

I love Mario Galaxy despite all of that because I enjoy other aspects of the game. I just find it weird how when it comes to Sonic games it's like people cannot give the games credit when they deserve in terms of quality and good game design just because they have approaches that some people don't enjoy.
 

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21 minutes ago, Raphael Martins said:

Mario 64 and Mario Odyssey have similar goals to Galaxy, and they don't have linear levels. Actually, it's a pretty weird justification to say a game that the main goal it's explanation instead of only going to the end of the stage it's the reason why it's linear.

I mean I personally don’t enjoy 64, and thought odyssey was a bit too open and wide for its own good. I honestly prefer the Galaxy games in their approach.
 

Anyway, I don’t even understand the point of this comparison when Galaxy and Mario as a whole is honestly not all that comparable to Sonic anymore outside the loose ties because they both are platformers. The experience you get from playing Colors is not gonna be the same as the one you get from playing Mario Galaxy. Sonic Colors having shallow level design that didn’t impress many fans or critics doesn’t just get better because Mario Galaxy is linear in certain ways. It’s not some conspiracy to always have Sonic be the lesser one, colors just didn’t offer as fulfilling of an experience to critics. 

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User18091994
3 minutes ago, KHCast said:

I mean I personally don’t enjoy 64, and thought odyssey was a bit too open and wide for its own good. I honestly prefer the Galaxy games in their approach.
 

Anyway, I don’t even understand the point of this comparison when Galaxy and Mario as a whole is honestly not all that comparable to Sonic anymore outside the loose ties because they both are platformers. The experience you get from playing Colors is not gonna be the same as the one you get from playing Mario Galaxy. 

I just don't see too much different between how Sonic Colors handle the Wisps and how Mario Galaxy handle the power ups. In both cases, the power ups are linked to specific sections or puzzles with only one way of solving, and they last a few seconds. So when people say Colors is a flawed game because of that and Mario Galaxy it's a masterpiece because handle the power ups in clever ways, I just find this argument very contradictory.

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3 minutes ago, Raphael Martins said:

I love Mario Galaxy despite all of that because I enjoy other aspects of the game. I just find it weird how when it comes to Sonic games it's like people cannot give the games credit when they deserve in terms of quality and good game design just because they have approaches that some people don't enjoy.

Genuinely feel like you're missing the point and trying to paint mild criticism of Colors in its approach as calling it "worse" or "the worst" when that isn't what Jez has been saying. He's not denying anything its due but rather comparing and contrasting the approaches and where one falls short for him. He says this in his posts!

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User18091994
11 minutes ago, KHCast said:

Anyway, I don’t even understand the point of this comparison when Galaxy and Mario as a whole is honestly not all that comparable to Sonic anymore outside the loose ties because they both are platformers. The experience you get from playing Colors is not gonna be the same as the one you get from playing Mario Galaxy. Sonic Colors having shallow level design that didn’t impress many fans or critics doesn’t just get better because Mario Galaxy is linear in certain ways. It’s not some conspiracy to always have Sonic be the lesser one, colors just didn’t offer as fulfilling of an experience to critics. 

The critics have a lot of bias when it comes to Sonic and other famous franchises, and you cannot change my mind when again, there are games like Pokémon Sh/Sw that were critically acclaimed. You have your right to disagree with me, but I'll continue to have this opinion if this kind of thing continue happening. I don't have a reason consider like the critics reviews have more credibility and professionalism when it's clear that they don't. 

1 minute ago, Zaysho said:

Genuinely feel like you're missing the point and trying to paint mild criticism of Colors in its approach as calling it "worse" or "the worst" when that isn't what Jez has been saying. He's not denying anything its due but rather comparing and contrasting the approaches and where one falls short for him. He says this in his posts!

My opinion is: Sonic Colors is a genuinely good Sonic game despite its flaws, but people are always more critical when Sonic games have flaws than franchises like Mario, Pokémon, etc, just because they have better reputations.

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Just now, Raphael Martins said:

My opinion is: Sonic Colors is a genuinely good Sonic game despite its flaws, but people are always more critical when Sonic games have flaws than franchises like Mario, Pokémon, etc, just because they have better reputations.

My opinion is this playground conspiracy theory nonsense is poisoning this thread and think you should knock it the fuck off.

Last warning.

 

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User18091994
8 minutes ago, Zaysho said:

My opinion is this playground conspiracy theory nonsense is poisoning this thread and think you should knock it the fuck off.

Last warning.

 

Okay, now I know that only popular opinions are allowed in this forum and you can offend me just because you don't agree with my point. Bye

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Tracker_TD
10 minutes ago, Raphael Martins said:

Okay, now I know that only popular opinions are allowed in this forum and you can offend me just because you don't agree with my point. Bye

There's a difference between a popular opinion and an 'opinion' that's just making crap up, surely. 

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User18091994
7 minutes ago, Tracker_TD said:

There's a difference between a popular opinion and an 'opinion' that's just making crap up, surely. 

Or you can disagree with me without gaslighting me. Or the adm could ask to move on from this subject without saying "fuck off". But it doesn't matter, I'm not comment on this forum anymore. Bye

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Mygodyouguyswritesomuch

Thinking about getting this on sale tbh, considering I already played it on Dolphin years ago, eventhought my computer ran some zones like, at 15FPS, but ok. 

I would probably be more interested in this if it was a remaster more like Crash and Spyro, were you could see an actual upgrade, but Ultimate? Man, they couldn't even make it run at 60FPS on the Switch, get the fuck out of here. Like many have said over the past months, you can get the same results on Dolphin if you have a good enough PC, maybe even better because at least Tropical Resort and Sonic's model doesn't look like ass.

$9,99 that's the best I can pay SEGA, gimme Rangers.

 

 

 

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9 minutes ago, Raphael Martins said:

Okay, now I know that only popular opinions are allowed in this forum and you can offend me just because you don't agree with my point. Bye

You started this nonsense on page one of this thread acting like there is a huge media bias against Sonic when there really isn't, kept arguing and bringing up irrelevant shit to explain the scoring (and accusing another member of having a bias when they disagree with you is pretty cute too).

10 minutes ago, Raphael Martins said:

Or you can disagree with me without gaslighting me. Or the adm could ask to move on from this subject without saying "fuck off". But it doesn't matter, I'm not comment on this forum anymore. Bye

Literally not the context in which I wrote that phrasing but of course this makes everything I say null and void. I've done this song and dance long enough that maybe you should read what people say instead of inventing a separate argument that acts like their reasonings are just bias that don't line up with facts you think are on your side. And if you have an issue with the moderators, you're more than welcome to message the administrators about it, but I'm not toning down my language because you need to feel like a victim.

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Raphael Martins has been dealt with temporarily. Time to move the circus away from this topic now.

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*peaks in*

ANYWAYwonder if the score will rise or fall come release day or if we already got all the reviews this is gonna get 

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Rabbitearsblog
36 minutes ago, Soniman said:

*peaks in*

ANYWAYwonder if the score will rise or fall come release day or if we already got all the reviews this is gonna get 

I'm curious about this too.  Currently, the score went down to 76 on Metacritic, so it makes me wonder once it releases publicly, will the score be lower or higher?  What was the audience score when the game first came out?  Was it higher than the critics' score or was it lower?

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Colors has 78 at 56 reviews, Colors Ultimate so far has 76 at 31 reviews, largely from the big name ones. 

It don't expect it to go down. At worst, it'll drop to 75 in a day or two. But I don't think the stats are against the game. 

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As a graphic designer, I'm offended by this screen:

image.png.718535934c83bbcdf51632511f6656e9.png

Seriously, WTF happened here? They made this on Canvas in 5 minutes or what. This is REAL. There are better templates you can download for free all over the internet, this is someone's nephew work. Man this game has its uglyness everywhere.

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Polkadi~☆
6 minutes ago, Jango said:

As a graphic designer, I'm offended by this screen:

image.png.718535934c83bbcdf51632511f6656e9.png

Seriously, WTF happened here? They made this on Canvas in 5 minutes or what. This is REAL. There are better templates you can download for free all over the internet, this is someone's nephew work. Man this game has its uglyness everywhere.

That surprised me too, it almost looks like something from a cheap mobile game (and not even the Sonic mobile games are like this). Surely there was a better way to implement the Rival Rush mode in a way that complements the aesthetic?

 

As for the reviews, it's about expected. A good game and a decent remaster, 7/10. Once you get past the one or two reviewers spouting the same tired rhetoric, every review seems to have the same universal opinion. It's just Sonic Colours again, with one or two new things. I wasn't expecting the world of this game anyway, except to maybe get the opportunity to play the original unbroken level layout, the full Act 1 and 2 stages as they were.

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My guess is that the metascore for Colors Ultimate drops by maybe one point, and that's about it. Final score will be a 74-76.

Any notably better or worse metascores for Colors Ultimate will be from the other versions of the game with a fraction of the reviews. By and large, the PS4 version has been the "de facto" version for Sonic games that are reviewed by the press. (Mania Plus was an exception of the PS4 and Switch version being roughly on par with the quantity of each versions' reviews, but that has way less reviews in general due to that being an updated retail re-release.)

TSR: PS4 - 72 (76 reviews) / NSW - 71 (18 reviews) / XBO - 73 (13 reviews) / PC - N/A (3 reviews)

Forces: PS457 (46 reviews) / NSW - 57 (17 reviews) / XBO - 62 (12 reviews) / PC - 56 (9 reviews)

Mania: PS486 (70 reviews) / NSW - 86 (21 reviews) / XBO - 83 (17 reviews) / PC - 84 (4 reviews)

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1 hour ago, Jango said:

As a graphic designer, I'm offended by this screen:

image.png.718535934c83bbcdf51632511f6656e9.png

Seriously, WTF happened here? They made this on Canvas in 5 minutes or what. This is REAL. There are better templates you can download for free all over the internet, this is someone's nephew work. Man this game has its uglyness everywhere.

You like that? Check this out

this game is so cool 

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Well... at least they fixed that thing with Sonic standing there and then jumping in place on the map load.

To be honest the Rival Rush visuals aren't the best but I don't think they're terrible either.  I'm trying to think of whether there's anything in the game they could've used as a template for what they went for here and there really isn't anything much like it to base the new thing off, if a simple UI animation is all they had the budget for to introduce the mode.

I guess I would've made it more menacing and Metal Sonic-y in aesthetic. As is, kinda feels more like the UI design for a grand prix mode in a generic rally game.

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Ryannumber1Scarer
5 minutes ago, Wraith said:

 

 

 

 

Tails will comment on speedrunning tricks

Generally speaking, this seems to be the best way for a remaster to handle stuff like this IMO. I prefer it when devs take a stance that hindering glitches should be fixed, but glitches that can help players or are just fun should be retained. OoT 3D had that design philosophy, and even in a more recent (but admittedly more extreme) example - Battle for Bikini Bottom Rehydrated faced quite a lot of criticism for removing out a lot of the speedrun glitches and tech, even though the speedrun community is mostly responsible for the resurgence of popularity that granted BFBB the remaster.

Both a neat detail to retain the user-friendly bugs, and have some lines to acknowledge what the player is doing something cool IMO.

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Okay, let's keep roasting SCU but can we drop the Rangers overhype? We have barely heard info in leaks about it and it looks the anti-Forces, a game that rips-off a masterpiece with Sonic slapped onto it and no other elements from the core franchise. I would rather play Colors again which I know to be decent than a mystery utopia game.

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