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What would your ideal Sonic Comic look like?


Wraith

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1 hour ago, MetalSkulkBane said:

She was in Sonic Battle and Sonic X, to an extend. She's not a full on villain, but she is a thief and should have grey morality. That's when she's most interesting. Otherwise she's just Team Dark's Amy Rose.

IDW 32 was a great example of lost opportunity. Rouge I know wouldn't willingly give back Jewel's collection she just stole. But she could for example leave it if she decided rescuing Omega is more important.
Or for more humorous effect, Rouge could been caught in act by Jewel, but she would think Rouge really did planned to give them back. maybe even reward her with one of the gems and Rouge couldn't bring herself to finish the theft. (In Flynn's defense I image there simply wasn't enough pages)

She IS a complete villain in STC-O, however… and I didn’t like that characterization one bit. She felt generic there as a full villain, basically Fang because the real Fang had become a slimy politician and lost interest in just thievery.

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1 hour ago, Snowragnarok said:

She IS a complete villain in STC-O, however… and I didn’t like that characterization one bit. She felt generic there as a full villain, basically Fang because the real Fang had become a slimy politician and lost interest in just thievery.

1) Full respect to Fleetway Online, but I don't think it's a good written comic

2) From what I recall she had very limited screen time. 2 back up stories and several cameos.

3) That's kinda my point? She needs to be grey, not full good or bad.

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6 hours ago, MetalSkulkBane said:

She was in Sonic Battle and Sonic X, to an extend. She's not a full on villian

There is a difference between being an Antagonist and being a villain though. Rouge is being antagonistic in those scenarios but once actual villains start trying to conquer the world or universe she teams with the heroes.

I really don't think a lot people actually get Rouge as a character. 

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On 9/18/2021 at 3:38 AM, SBR2 said:

There is a difference between being an Antagonist and being a villain though. Rouge is being antagonistic in those scenarios but once actual villains start trying to conquer the world or universe she teams with the heroes.

I really don't think a lot people actually get Rouge as a character. 

Ok, now you're just arguing over semantics.

Obviously I don't want a game with Rouge as main antagonist. No one asks for that. But if Sonic goes open world I wouldn't mind a side quest where you need to stop Rouge theft.

GREY morality. That's what makes her interesting.

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The rouge situation is interesting. If you ask me personally I think her being a morally gray character in some instances is good. This was posted in the IDW shadow topic but Evan's Analysis of who she is in relation to shadow and what they do for each other in my opinion is accurate summation and what I think is best for her character. She helps shadow calm down from time to time, and shadow despite his disposition is a pretty nobble and good guy and it helps her be a nicer better person.
For me , its very easy to believe that when her angsty heroic fuddy duddy friend isn't around she gets up to a lot more interesting and morally dubious stuff.

However this isn't how the fanbase views her, I'm reminded of Treasure Team Tango where Ian tried to do this and it was met with so much vitriol that he never did it again. And a lot of depictions of rouge is more of this teasing older sister figure to a lot of the character or a teasing flirt who ultimately means well than anyone who can genuinely be mean or have ill intentions. Its similar to the situation with silver where as the character the fanbase made him to be over time is how everyone sees his character and how eventually sega started characterizing him as. Rouge hasn't gotten to the last stage, I don't know if they care about her enough to do that, but I see similarities.

For me this is frustrating. Some of us are aware that sometimes a character could not be used to their fullest potential like aforementioned fuddy duddy, and people say that the issues are how the character is really supposed to be. And its a frustrating argument to have because a lot of it is left up to the interpretation of other person who might potentially just be arguing in bad faith.
I believe however this is actually a situation where rouge's character might be better with these flaws but the fanbase doesn't care for it at all, and she ultimately ends up character who has nothing going on for her because she isn't around enough to really have her skills utilized.

I suppose there's at least the recent sonic channel story and character explanation where she is described as " a character who's ultimately a good person but you have to watch out for " which I think is accurate to what her character actually is and would produce an interesting character. All that said rouge isn't used enough in games in ways to facilitate this for any of that matter. Partially because sonic team just doesn't care about the lady cast as much as the male cast. So I fear this opportunity for rouge to actually be characterized in an interesting capacity wont be used in the games or the comic for various reasons even though with fuddy duddy mandates being extremely conducive to rouge working by herself. So you are left with a character who is just around who flirts doesn't have much of a character outside of that. Occasionally she has intel , so i guess he can also spout exposition, fantastic character

 

 

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If you look at all of Rouge's appearances throughout the entire series, she's not really all that morally ambiguous. 

She was a spy for the government in SA2, and unambiguously assisted Shadow in Heroes and 06. Every game she's in, she's helping the heroes in some capacity. So I don't see this idea that she's this morally ambiguous figure who plays both sides. She's got a selfish goal, but her actions are never at the expense of others.

 

The backlash to her Archie self was because she was never a villain to begin with. When push comes to shove, she always did the right thing and didn't have to be strong armed into it.

 

Everything is up to interpretation sure, but interpretations can be wrong.

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There's really no need for 12 different flavors of bland good guy though so leaning into her self centered side and love for mischief justifies her being around. Sticking to Sonic 06's Rouge is asking her not to show up.

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Maybe so, but look at how people are reacting to Shadow being more of an asshole nowadays and not like being like his 06 self. People are always going to prefer the idealized versions of their favorite characters and lash out when things don't align with that. 

So making Rouge more self-centered is inviting a similar reaction to how people feel about Shadow right now. 

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IDK I still tend to prefer the garbage fucked up dumbass versions of characters. Nothing's going to please everyone and you can't make everyone a saint so I think they ought to at least try to use some less idealized interpretations when the opportunity comes up.

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I feel like there needs to be a goal with that; when you have a character who starts off garbage, unless they're a villain, the general expectation is that you want to see them improve and get over said flaws. Its why "positive change arcs" are so popular in fiction. 

Like, nobody really expects the likes of Eggman, Team Hooligan or the Babylon Rogues to change their ways; they started off as selfish assholes and they'll always remain selfish assholes aside from the rare occasions when they work with Sonic. 

Its kind of different with the heroic characters, who are actually meant to be good guys who do good things. If you have an asshole main character well...nobody is going to like them...because they're assholes lol. 

 

I like asshole main characters actually, but its understandable why they're not everyone's cup of tea. Its why good guys tend to be likable  but kind of boring. 

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38 minutes ago, Kuzu said:

Maybe so, but look at how people are reacting to Shadow being more of an asshole nowadays and not like being like his 06 self. People are always going to prefer the idealized versions of their favorite characters and lash out when things don't align with that. 

So making Rouge more self-centered is inviting a similar reaction to how people feel about Shadow right now. 

Sonic fans aren't always right so I'm standing by my point there. Their flaws help differntiate them.

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Tbh, as long as the characters aren't TOO unlikable, I can tolerate it. Like, I was REALLY turned off by how Shadow was acting at first, but only because it was such a jarring shift from what I'm used to for the character. When I sit on it more, I really don't mind it as much. If nothing else, it helps keep Shadow distinct from the rest of the cast as a rival to Sonic. 

 

Like, the worst thing Shadow has done is just be uncooperative, which is hardly a first for him. 

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for the record you can think sonic team is being too safe with rouge and also think ian flynn went too far. doesn't have to be one or the other

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Its hard, I'll admit it. Finding the right balance between "likable" traits and "interesting" traits, especially for a series with a simplistic morality system like Sonic. I will never forget the endless fucking debates about how "shitty" the Acorn Kingdom was and how Sonic should have just left that all behind even though its literally where he grew up in Archie. Or even worse, the fucking Slap. 

Yea, you're really not going to satisfy everyone with a series like this no matter what you do. My sympathy kind of goes out to Ian Flynn, because lord knows the amount of bullshit he's had to listen to from Sonic fans for years up to this very day. 

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Look, we can all agree that Rouge willing to let Blaze’s world (or any world) die just because she wanted a Sol Emerald to herself is too far.

I mean, the bar is literally that high that everyone was shocked when Ian even crossed it with her.

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Yeah, I feel like Kuzu is overreacting. Rouge was stealing from heroes in Sonic X and no one complained.

Rouge can fight, manipulate and steal from heroes.
Rouge cannot try to kill someone or leave them for death.

It's that simple. There is no proof that people would hate that. Team Tango was problematic because lives were at stake. Noting more.

(Also, there always will be someone complaining. So you might as well write her correctly and hope for the best.)

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Rouge barely stole from anyone in Sonic X. In fact, she was conscripted to the government in her first proper appearance iirc.

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Back on topic, I’m curious about how the Sonic Channel stories avoid the mandates IDW was hit with, often even contradicting them; suppose it’s because they’re written more internally at SEGA than with IDW? (Which leaves the question about the inventor mandate and DoDonpa)

 

The only downside to this is that the Sonic Channel stories don’t introduce new characters and content (and a few mandates still seem to apply) to the series, unlike IDW. Basically, mandateless writing like Sonic Channel, but with new elements like IDW.

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I don't think that Sonic Channel "avoid the mandate" that much, as most of the important stuff are basically the same, and several mandates can be seen in the writing (even Shadow is kinda compatible with the mandates, even if more polite and stuff). So I don't think that calling it "mandateless writing" is really true.

I think that it's more easy to play with the rules when you're the ones that say them. It give you more freeways, because you don't really have to do the negociation.

 

But I agree that I would be interested by a full comics with Channel's Writing. Having directly the Sonic Team (or basically Eitaro Toyoda's, as he oversee nearly everything and have written the Sonic Channel stuff) vision of their stuff would be interesting.

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  • 3 months later...

A world heavily based on the games, a halfway point between Post-Reboot Archie and IDW, essentially an IDW allowed to at least explore all the featured in the Modern Sonic games.

Focus on various adventures of Sonic, Tails, and Amy as they explore the world occasionally teamed up with a fourth member that would join the team.

Focus is on story variety and creativity rather than overarching story arcs and a heavy reliance on continuity. Stories would be designed to be 1-2 trades long and at least half the time can be enjoyed entirely on their own.

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Interesting topic. Can't say I'm dissatisfied with IDW, it's pretty close to my ideal Sonic comic, still, what I'd really like to see is:

Sonic comics like the Archie Mega Man comics.

Honestly, the Mega Man comics were PERFECT. Retell of the stories of the game while reworking the plot-holes, inserting new characters to fill the gaps, in-depth analysis of the characters... just imagine a comic that would go from Sonic 1 to Forces (I refuse to accept that idiocy of "Classic Sonic is an alternate dimension", I mean... why? Thats one of the most idiotic things the SEGA has ever done, and the competition is quite strong...).

...eh, it will never happen, but nothing stops me from dreaming ...

 

 

On 9/17/2021 at 11:42 PM, MetalSkulkBane said:

1) Full respect to Fleetway Online, but I don't think it's a good written comic

 

Finally someone said it!

 

 

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1 hour ago, SkyHorizon said:

Interesting topic. Can't say I'm dissatisfied with IDW, it's pretty close to my ideal Sonic comic, still, what I'd really like to see is:

Sonic comics like the Archie Mega Man comics.

Honestly, the Mega Man comics were PERFECT. Retell of the stories of the game while reworking the plot-holes, inserting new characters to fill the gaps, in-depth analysis of the characters... just imagine a comic that would go from Sonic 1 to Forces (I refuse to accept that idiocy of "Classic Sonic is an alternate dimension", I mean... why? Thats one of the most idiotic things the SEGA has ever done, and the competition is quite strong...).

...eh, it will never happen, but nothing stops me from dreaming ...

 

 

Finally someone said it!

 

 

IIRC that was considered a controversial decision. I have seen people complain about the comic veering towards being a let's play in comic form. I am also not sure what could be provided for Sonic Adventure, Sonic Adventure 2, and Sonic Unleashed which have already been given adaptations in other mediums. I can see many hardcore fans tuning out after the classic era as the comic isn't going to provide anything new for them.

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7 minutes ago, Slashy said:

IIRC that was considered a controversial decision. I have seen people complain about the comic veering towards being a let's play in comic form. I am also not sure what could be provided for Sonic Adventure, Sonic Adventure 2, and Sonic Unleashed which have already been given adaptations in other mediums. I can see many hardcore fans tuning out after the classic era as the comic isn't going to provide anything new for them.

Archie Sonic Adventure 1 adaptation was absolute trash.

Archie Sonic Adventure 2 adaptation was nonexistent (except for the extremely modified and condensed SU2).

Sonic X adapted Adventure 1&2 but, eh... that's pretty much all.

None of the other games have been adapted to my knowledge. Not in full form at last...

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1 hour ago, SkyHorizon said:

Archie Sonic Adventure 1 adaptation was absolute trash.

Archie Sonic Adventure 2 adaptation was nonexistent (except for the extremely modified and condensed SU2).

Sonic X adapted Adventure 1&2 but, eh... that's pretty much all.

None of the other games have been adapted to my knowledge. Not in full form at last...

Unleashed was adapted in Archie.

You could squint your eyes and claim Battle was adapted in Sonic X, but the plot is very different so I don't. I don't think it is necessary to have another adaptation of SA1, SA2, and Sonic Unleashed when you can watch X or watch the cutscenes on Youtube or read Post-Reboot for the case of Unleashed.

Also to avoid double posting but to follow up on the Rouge conversation. Having the typical story being our trio coincidentally into various conflicts that they are perfect to solve means that most of the time the setup for Rouge being involved with a story is that she wants treasure and gets dragged into being a hero by the events of the plot. I think it is the best of both worlds really, we still get to play with Rouge's morally dubious side while still clearly portraying her as a hero.

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9 hours ago, Slashy said:

Unleashed was adapted in Archie.

You could squint your eyes and claim Battle was adapted in Sonic X, but the plot is very different so I don't. I don't think it is necessary to have another adaptation of SA1, SA2, and Sonic Unleashed when you can watch X or watch the cutscenes on Youtube or read Post-Reboot for the case of Unleashed.

While I understand your concern, I think it's a moot point. Do you know how many adaptations of Mega Man existed who already adapted the games in some form? Still, it didn't stop the Archie comics to do it (better) and to become widely acclaimed.

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