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KT7000
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Sonic the Hedgehog > 2 > 3 > & Knuckles > 4: Episode I > CD > 4: Episode II - various events - Adventure > Adventure 2 - (Advance) - (Advance 2) > Heroes - (Battle?) - (Advance 3) > Shadow the Hedgehog > (Rush) - 2006 - (Rush Adventure) - Unleashed - Colors > Generations

> direct connection
- partial connection
() disputed

Taking this into account, where does Lost World, Mania, and Forces fit in?

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CD doesn't take place between Episode I and II of Sonic 4 - I think there was an official source that tried to suggest it did, but they also suggested the two campaigns of Sonic & Knuckles took place at the same time when they clearly don't.  Mad Gear and Lost Labyrinth in Episode I are directly related to Metal Sonic's revival - it really wouldn't make sense for Eggman to have begun this plan before Metal Sonic is even defeated.  CD takes place either after Sonic 1 or after S&K, it isn't fully clear and doesn't affect things majorly either way.

Anyway, Lost World takes place after Generations, nothing really to suggest otherwise.  Forces takes place after Lost World.

Mania takes place in a new timeline created when Classic Sonic, Tails and Eggman travelled back in time after Generations.  With the knowledge of his future failures to hand, Eggman tried something else instead, creating a new sequence of events following Sonic & Knuckles instead of Sonic 4 for that timeline.  Of course, Classic Sonic travels from this newly created timeline back to the original one during the events of Forces.  This was all originally fanon but I'm sure one of the developers (maybe Taxman himself?) eventually confirmed that this was what they had in mind when designing the scenario for Mania.

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4 hours ago, JezMM said:

CD doesn't take place between Episode I and II of Sonic 4 - I think there was an official source that tried to suggest it did, but they also suggested the two campaigns of Sonic & Knuckles took place at the same time when they clearly don't.  Mad Gear and Lost Labyrinth in Sonic 1 are directly related to Metal Sonic's revival - it really wouldn't make sense for Eggman to have begun this plan before Metal Sonic is even defeated.  CD takes place either after Sonic 1 or after S&K, it isn't fully clear and doesn't affect things majorly either way.

Anyway, Lost World takes place after Generations, nothing really to suggest otherwise.  Forces takes place after Lost World.

Mania takes place in a new timeline created when Classic Sonic, Tails and Eggman travelled back in time after Generations.  With the knowledge of his future failures to hand, Eggman tried something else instead, creating a new sequence of events following Sonic & Knuckles instead of Sonic 4 for that timeline.  Of course, Classic Sonic travels from this newly created timeline back to the original one during the events of Forces.  This was all originally fanon but I'm sure one of the developers (maybe Taxman himself?) eventually confirmed that this was what they had in mind when designing the scenario for Mania.

Then… how did the Eggmen get out of the white void? How did Classic Sonic forget the Homing Attack in Mania and onwards? I suppose something eventually negated Generations, removing Classic’s memory of it and releasing the Eggmen.

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3 hours ago, Snowragnarok said:

Then… how did the Eggmen get out of the white void? How did Classic Sonic forget the Homing Attack in Mania and onwards? I suppose something eventually negated Generations, removing Classic’s memory of it and releasing the Eggmen.

Eggmen - they found the door eventually

Classic Sonic was just being polite in Generations, when he got back home he was like "lmao I don't need that shit".

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MetalSkulkBane

What is the point of this timeline anyway?

All games are in continuity of release dates, until proven otherwise (like obviously Sonic 4 takes closely after Sonic 3). It doesn't take rocket science to figure out Lost World is highly probably right after Generations.

Sonic CD is only major game with questionable placement. Personally I put it right after Sonic 3&K, before Mania or Sonic 4, but that's just me.

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Plumbers_Helper

The closest thing we have to an official confirmation of Sonic CD's placement comes from this 1993 interview where Yasushi Yamaguchi (Sonic CD's Special Stage designer and best know for being the creator of Tails.) suggests Sonic CD takes place between Sonic 1 and 2:

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Yamaguchi: I was a character and graphic designer in Sonic 2. If you play Sonic CD through the end, I’m sure you’ll pick up on this, but the ending may make players think that Sonic CD falls in between Sonic 1 and 2, in terms of chronology. That’s why Tails doesn’t show up, nor can you transform into Super Sonic, since that’s a power granted to Sonic only after he collects all the chaos emeralds. Tails, however, does show up in Sonic CD for a cameo! (laughs) It’s just a little thing but try and find him!

 

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5 hours ago, MetalSkulkBane said:

What is the point of this timeline anyway?

All games are in continuity of release dates, until proven otherwise (like obviously Sonic 4 takes closely after Sonic 3). It doesn't take rocket science to figure out Lost World is highly probably right after Generations.

Sonic CD is only major game with questionable placement. Personally I put it right after Sonic 3&K, before Mania or Sonic 4, but that's just me.

It's suggested that CD takes place between Sonic 4: Episodes I & II because Metal Sonic makes an appearance in Episode II.

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MetalSkulkBane
1 hour ago, KT7000 said:

It's suggested that CD takes place between Sonic 4: Episodes I & II because Metal Sonic makes an appearance in Episode II.

Both Sonic Retro and Sonic News (apparently quoting Sonic 4 website) claim that ep 2 follows directly from Ep 1.

Plus Little Planet needs almost a year to return and I can't imagine Eggman to wait this long without doing anything.

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My take on the timeline:

Segasonic the Hedgehog (arcade), Tails Adventure, Tails Sky Patrol -> Sonic 1, Sonic 1 Master System (the Sky Base part) -> Sonic CD -> Sonic 2 Master System -> Sonic Chaos -> Sonic 2 -> Sonic 3 & K -> Sonic Blast, Sonic 3D Blast -> Mania -> Sonic 4 -> Sonic the Fighters -> Sonic Triple Trouble -> Knuckles Chaotix -> Sonic Pocket Adventure -> Sonic Adventure -> Sonic Advance 1 -> Sonic Advance 2 -> Sonic Adventure 2 -> Sonic Heroes -> Shadow the Hedgehog -> Sonic Battle -> Sonic Advance 3 -> Sonic 06 -> Sonic Rush, Sonic Rivals -> Sonic Rush Adventure, Sonic Rivals 2 -> Sonic Unleashed -> Sonic Colors, Sonic Colors DS (the Mother Wisp part) -> Sonic Runners/Runners Adventure -> Sonic Generations -> Sonic Lost World -> Sonic Chronicles -> Sonic Forces -> Sonic Rangers(?)

-The Storybook titles are canon, but there is no way to know their placcement in the timeline, aside of them being in the modern era and before Generations, where they are referenced by dialogues; Same for Sonic Labyrinth but it's in the classic timeline instead. Same can be said for the Riders games... probably somewhere after Heroes because of the characters who appear in them. Team Sonic Racing also has a story, and it happens after Colors for sure, but can be placed anywhere (EDIT: ok it's probably just before Lost World since there's Zavok in team with Eggman, but I'm not sure, maybe Zavok's presence is just inconsistency for the sake of gameplay).

-Segasonic is one of the first times, if not the first, which Sonic faces Dr Eggman, and he's way more scared and inexperienced in that game, at least initially.

-Tails games all happen before Tails met Sonic. Sonic 2 8bit takes place before the other version, since Tails is kidnapped and not with Sonic yet.

-Sonic CD's canon future is bad future.

-Sonic Mania happens between Sonic 3 & K and Sonic 4 when Classic Sonic returns back in time at the end of Generations, though it's a parallel timeline which eventually retcons itself a la 06 after Classic Sonic goes back to the Modern timeline in Forces and then returns again. This does not exclude other adventures from taking place in this parallel timeline before it gets retconned, if they decide to make more Classic styled games in the future.

-Sonic the Fighters, with some retcons such as the 8th emerald, is the conclusion of the Sonic 4 saga featuring the Death Egg MKII. Little Planet is supposedly saved after the Deat Egg explodes. It also features Metal Sonic after being repaired in Sonic 4.

-Triple Trouble also features Metal Sonic, so it has to happen after the Sonic 4/Fighters saga.

-Sonic Pocket Adventure is where the classic-modern transition happens, and Sonic 4's modern look is not canon just like the eighth emerald of Fighters and the super emeralds/Hyper Sonic in S3&K.

-the Sonic Runners games had a little story in them, and it's where they stated that some wisps decided to stay in Sonic's world because they liked living in it.

-Sonic Chronicles is probably not canon, but I like to think that part of it is. At least, the Gizoids having connections with the ancient Echidna tribe, Sonic and friends being stuck in another dimension while Eggman takes over the world, and so. This ties to the beginning of Sonic Forces.

-Sonic Rangers we know nothing about it.

EDIT: I moved Sonic Chaos before Sonic 2, because Sonic 3 is probably supposed to begin directly after the extra ending of Sonic 2 with Super Sonic so there can't be anything between.

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MetalSkulkBane

1) I don't like putting Tails spin-offs so early.
The way I see it he learned how to be a hero from Sonic. it's just better arc for him.
They went separate ways for a while, Tails to do his spin-offs, Sonic to do Blast or Labyrinth. Also, that's the implication from Japanese Manual of Sky Patrol and USA manual of Tails Adventures (JPN sadly says it's prequel)

2) Did you put Shadow game BEFORE Heroes? That's a little impossible.

3) Generally I'm hesitant whenever to consider most classic spin-offs canon, mostly for Knuckles sake. If Adventure 1 was first time he saw Sonic and Eggman since S3&K I would sliiiiiightly justify his behavior. You know, if he was still new to everything and just distrusted everyone. Rather than having like 6 adventures with Sonic already.
(I'm aware, it's very selfish logic, "it's not canon, because I don't want it to")

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6 minutes ago, MetalSkulkBane said:

2) Did you put Shadow game BEFORE Heroes? That's a little impossible.

3) Generally I'm hesitant whenever to consider most classic spin-offs canon, mostly for Knuckles sake. If Adventure 1 was first time he saw Sonic and Eggman since S3&K I would sliiiiiightly justify his behavior. You know, if he was still new to everything and just distrusted everyone. Rather than having like 6 adventures with Sonic already.

1 is up to interpretation I think...

2 my bad, sadly (or luckily) I never played Shadow aside of a 5 mins demo at a supermarket decades ago, so I got confused. I'll switch them

3 this is up to interpretation as well, besides, in half of those spin-offs he's still an opponent by the way (fighters, triple trouble); this leaves Blast and Mania as the only times when Knuckles acted as a pal prior to Adventure, and Mania happend after the Generations time-space mess so it might be the cause. He also appears in Flicky's Island but he's basically a special stage portal, I'm not sure about it. Knuckles got tricked in a couple of other games from the modern era too.

Anyway I appreciated the feedback.

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20 hours ago, JezMM said:

Eggmen - they found the door eventually

Classic Sonic was just being polite in Generations, when he got back home he was like "lmao I don't need that shit".

So Classic Sonic merely forgot normally, with nothing supernatural going on? That’s fine. 

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He didn't really get any distance with it at the end of gens. You can assume he's still honing the skill but he's not good enough at it to pull it out in a crisis situation.

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Specific moves aren't always consistently used anyway. Modern Sonic didn't "forget" how to boost just because it wasn't a gameplay ability in Lost World.

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On 10/19/2021 at 2:48 AM, MetalSkulkBane said:

It doesn't take rocket science to figure out Lost World is highly probably right after Generations.

Would you say directly or partially after Generations?

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MetalSkulkBane

I mean, some time obviously passed between each game, but this is most likely Eggman's next scheme, unless you really want to count Olympic 2012 or All Star Racing Transformed. I would not.

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2 hours ago, MetalSkulkBane said:

I mean, some time obviously passed between each game, but this is most likely Eggman's next scheme, unless you really want to count Olympic 2012 or All Star Racing Transformed. I would not.

I haven't played Lost World yet, which is why I asked. But from the way you described it, it sounds like it'd be partially connected.

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MetalSkulkBane

Nooot really. Sonic games don't really do "direct sequels". At least not in years.

Last time it was in 2007 with Rivals 2 and Rush Adventures. And even then both games had very little plotwise to do with their predecessors. The only time Sonic game had strong continuity was story of Shadow, starting with SA2,  through Heroes to Shadow the Game.

Other than that you can pretend that Sonic Adventure 1 takes place after Sonic Colors and who will prove otherwise?

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17 hours ago, Snowragnarok said:

So Classic Sonic merely forgot normally, with nothing supernatural going on? That’s fine. 

I was just making jokes, the real answer is "it's a video game".  The writers wrote Sonic attempting the homing attack at the end of Generations as a cute little joke to suggest he learned it from his future self (or, if you're basing your thoughts off the 3DS version, the developers decided to use it as a gameplay mechanic for both characters for this one game at this one point in time) and put no further thought into it.  Neither decision was made with any idea at the time that Generations' would lead into Mania and/or Forces where Classic no longer knows it.  And including it in Mania or Forces as a gameplay mechanic just because a previous game did, even if they didn't think it would fit the gameplay, would be an awful way to design a video game.

It was such a minor point of Generations, it would probably confuse more players to dwell on it and write some sort of acknowledgement that Classic Sonic can't homing attack than it would to explain such a pedantic detail.

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Trying to fit every game into a contiguous timeline is a fool's errand these days, but as far as I can tell, regardless of what SEGA considers canon or mainline or not, here's how I personally visualize it going:

SEGASonic* -> Sonic 1 -> Sonic CD -> Sonic 2 -> Sonic 3&K -> Sonic Chaos -> Sonic Triple Trouble -> Knuckles Chaotix* -> Sonic Mania* -> Sonic 4 EI&II -> Sonic Adventure -> Sonic Adventure 2 -> Sonic Advance -> Sonic Advance 2 -> Sonic Heroes -> Sonic Battle -> Sonic Advance 3 -> Shadow -> Sonic Rush -> Sonic Riders* -> Sonic 06* -> Sonic Rush Adventure -> Sonic Rivals* -> Sonic Rivals 2 -> Sonic Riders Zero Gravity -> Sonic Unleashed -> Sonic Colors -> Sonic Generations* -> Sonic Lost World -> Sonic Forces* -> Team Sonic Racing?

*Sonic Mania and Sonic Forces, I feel, need to exist in an alternate timeline of sorts. Sonic Generations was the first Sonic game to utilize time travel in such a way that would cause a split to happen. Sonic 2006 had time travel, but the game wrote itself out of existence. Sonic Rivals and Rivals 2 both need to happen, otherwise Silver never gets a legitimate introduction into the series. SEGASonic is placed before Sonic 1 for weird personal preference, but Mighty and Ray's presence in Mania is executed in a way that Sonic & Knuckles seem to know them already, but not Tails (if the teaser trailer for Mania Plus is considered canon, which I like to think it at least represents what's there), which means Chaotix is also canon, and I know that SEGA wants to pretend it doesn't exist, buuuuut.... nah. Sorry, the game's mediocre but it's canon to me. Finally, I included the Riders games because there's too much important lore drops to ignore it, and I excluded Free Riders because basically nothing happens in that game... at all. 

 

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I don't know in general I think most of the games are release order but obviously there's some out of order. Personally I view both Tails games as prequels same for the Arcade game. CD I personally think of as after 1 but before 2. Pocket Adventure, Sonic 4 and The first 2 Advance games before Adventure 1. Battle and Advance 3 after Shadow  and from then on its all pretty much just as released. 

Mania Timeline is basically just the Game Gear games and Chaotix between Generations and Mania. 

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20 hours ago, Indigo Rush said:

Trying to fit every game into a contiguous timeline is a fool's errand these days, but as far as I can tell, regardless of what SEGA considers canon or mainline or not, here's how I personally visualize it going:

SEGASonic* -> Sonic 1 -> Sonic CD -> Sonic 2 -> Sonic 3&K -> Sonic Chaos -> Sonic Triple Trouble -> Knuckles Chaotix* -> Sonic Mania* -> Sonic 4 EI&II -> Sonic Adventure -> Sonic Adventure 2 -> Sonic Advance -> Sonic Advance 2 -> Sonic Heroes -> Sonic Battle -> Sonic Advance 3 -> Shadow -> Sonic Rush -> Sonic Riders* -> Sonic 06* -> Sonic Rush Adventure -> Sonic Rivals* -> Sonic Rivals 2 -> Sonic Riders Zero Gravity -> Sonic Unleashed -> Sonic Colors -> Sonic Generations* -> Sonic Lost World -> Sonic Forces* -> Team Sonic Racing?

*Sonic Mania and Sonic Forces, I feel, need to exist in an alternate timeline of sorts. Sonic Generations was the first Sonic game to utilize time travel in such a way that would cause a split to happen. Sonic 2006 had time travel, but the game wrote itself out of existence. Sonic Rivals and Rivals 2 both need to happen, otherwise Silver never gets a legitimate introduction into the series. SEGASonic is placed before Sonic 1 for weird personal preference, but Mighty and Ray's presence in Mania is executed in a way that Sonic & Knuckles seem to know them already, but not Tails (if the teaser trailer for Mania Plus is considered canon, which I like to think it at least represents what's there), which means Chaotix is also canon, and I know that SEGA wants to pretend it doesn't exist, buuuuut.... nah. Sorry, the game's mediocre but it's canon to me. Finally, I included the Riders games because there's too much important lore drops to ignore it, and I excluded Free Riders because basically nothing happens in that game... at all. 

 

The only gripe with this particular order is that Sonic 4 can't come after Triple Trouble/Chaotix unless you headcanon that Eggman rebuilt Metal Sonic from scratch for those games and then, for some reason, decided to go back and recover and restore the original next time Little Planet showed up instead of just building a fourth one.

For that reason I always personally imagine that Sonic 4 slots in after the original 5 "mainline" games, before the various spin-offs and side stories.  Modern Sonic and homing attack be damned, those are just art style/gameplay choices that we observe as an audience but aren't necessarily canon in any tangible way to the lore.

 

...Though I guess maybe Eggman's logic was "when I tried to rebuild him the first time all he did was swoop around instead of racing Sonic, and when I tried to rebuild him the second time he turned into a big red stapler, no I think I was onto something with that first one if I could just put a big weird ball of energy from some ancient ruins into him, I think that'd make all the difference".  Yeah that's some good lore actually, carry on.

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Plumbers_Helper
3 hours ago, JezMM said:

...Though I guess maybe Eggman's logic was "when I tried to rebuild him the first time all he did was swoop around instead of racing Sonic, and when I tried to rebuild him the second time he turned into a big red stapler, no I think I was onto something with that first one if I could just put a big weird ball of energy from some ancient ruins into him, I think that'd make all the difference".  Yeah that's some good lore actually, carry on.

The only problem with that theory is the Japanese manual for Knuckles Chaotix where it's implied the Metal Sonic in that game is the original Metal Sonic, just with his "brain" inserted into a more powerful body. I always thought the older broken Metal Sonic bodies you see in Sonic Mania were a reference to this.

Quote

Metal Sonic Kai (Rev.)

A Sonic-shaped robot created by Dr. Eggman. The main and sub CPUs were recovered from the body that was destroyed in a previous confrontation with Sonic. It was replaced by a spare fuselage, which was reborn with Dark Ring power. The newly installed Plasner allows it to perform a plasma pulse attack from its chest.

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Oh I forgot Knuckles Chaotix!

Anyway, this Metal Sonic discussion made me think that in the modern side of the series Metal Sonic didn't have many major roles outside of non canon spin-offs.

I remember that some Mecha/Metal Sonic models are seen in Eggman's base in Sonic Adventure, but turned off (he can be unlocked as playable but that's just a bonus unrelated with the story). Then he's the major villain in Sonic Heroes, and after that... kinda nothing? He's been put into Colors in the remake but he wasn't in the original, and the Metal Sonic in Forces is just an illusion, not the real one. Maybe if Team Sonic Racing is canon, there's that one too.

There's a new model in the rival series, made by Eggman Nega, with a color scheme that resembles the one of Gemerl, but that's probably not the same robot and it's supposed to come from the future(?).

Back on the topic of Knuckles Chaotix, I would place it near the end of the classic era, after Triple Trouble. The chaotix are mainly seen as modern characters now, so I think it makes sense to place the game in a spot that's close to the modern era/Sonic Adventure.

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