Megathread Sonic Frontiers (2022) | MT | General Discussion (DO NOT discuss leaks here please)

[Razule]

If the cyberspace sections are Boost levels, there's absolutely going to be 2D.

[Cosmos Rogue]

@Shade Vortex Much of what Sonic Team does is in fact based off of a tone dead understanding of what people want out of a Sonic game.

Anyway, I'm not too fussed if the trailer shows actual gameplay, but I do hope we get some clarity on what kind of game this is going to be i.e. are the open world rumors true. After that we're just going to have to hope that what they show us is what the game actually is and this doesn't turn out to be a repeat of Unleashed where we first saw that amazing Sonic gameplay and then, oops, turns out most of the game is actually a beat 'em up

[Shade Vortex]

2 hours ago, Cosmos Rogue said:

@Shade Vortex Much of what Sonic Team does is in fact based off of a tone dead understanding of what people want out of a Sonic game.

Well, what I mean by what I said is that when people complain very much about things, they do tend to listen (except with Zavok and the Wisps, but I think Sonic Team themselves like both a lot- and the initial reception of the Wisps was good, but they keep not understanding why the wisps were liked in the first place... like with everything else they bring back or reuse). But it's always in extremes, and never takes any GOOD lessons out of what they did wrong (or even consider if anything was done right). It's a classic example of throwing the baby out with the bath water.

[Kuzu]

I'm probably setting myself up for disappointment again by saying this but, I really am holding out hope that by some stroke of miracle someone at Sega finally got a brain and truly sat down and brainstormed how to take this series forward in a way that addresses two decades of complaints. It doesn't need to be perfect, but just show that they're trying something, anything that's taking this series to the next level. 

Even just showing enough gameplay that we can judge would be enough at this point. This is the biggest push Sega have had for Sonic in a while, so it makes me think they're trying to send a message here.

 

 

I'm honestly not expecting much but I really, really, really  want to be proven wrong. I want them to make me look like the biggest fool ever. I want to stop being disappointed by this series and I don't think that's unreasonable but I dunno...

 

[expansivelovestories]

Yes   i think everyone who has ever worked on creating Sonic games and stories has always wondered about and envisioned somehow being able to have large, interactive worlds that would still allow Sonic and other characters to be quite like how they normally are! 

Once the pieces were all in place and the prototypes were seen to be working really well, i would guess that this has been one of the most exciting Sonic projects to create, maybe even one of the most exciting games or artworks overall!!  

[Natie]

Damn, when was the last time there was a Sonic announcement at an industry event that wasnt specifically run by SEGA?

[MH MD]

8 minutes ago, Natie said:

Damn, when was the last time there was a Sonic announcement at an industry event that wasnt specifically run by SEGA?

I Think it was Sonic 2006.......at TGS 2005, that was along time ago

[Natie]

That must mean either SEGA is really confident in this reveal or that they expect the Movie trailer to sweeten it.

[CertifiedNobody]

7 hours ago, Razule said:

If the cyberspace sections are Boost levels, there's absolutely going to be 2D.

They might not have 2d sections to avoid the gameplay style shifting so heavily.

[Sega DogTagz]

4 hours ago, Kuzu said:

It doesn't need to be perfect, but just show that they're trying something, anything that's taking this series to the next level.

 

Thats the thing that gets me about frontiers tho. The one true constant of Sonic Team since the creation of the boost formula is the fact that it is unsustainable from a content standpoint.

If the name of the game was to evolve the game into something sustainable... to design something future proof that they could build off of... something to ease the burden of creation and leave dev time to increase the density of the content...

Then an open world game is 100% the last thing I would recommend for them to chase. Its going further down the developer hell rabbit hole they have spent the last 15 years flinching at.

 

Honestly, I'm interested to see how they make it work. Content is a dangerous thing to screw up in an open world game.  You feel it more when an entire world is empty with nothing to do.

[Cosmos Rogue]

I think an open world might actually be the solution to the "content sustainability" problem. If the problem is that you need to make massive levels to accommodate Sonic's speed, then it might make sense to make a game where exploring massive environments is the point of the game. Instead of building massive levels to accommodate Sonic's speed, make a game about exploring massive levels with Sonic's speed being one of the tools the player has to facilitate that exploration.

[Razule]

28 minutes ago, CertifiedNobody said:

They might not have 2d sections to avoid the gameplay style shifting so heavily.

Still the same franchise that gave us the Boost and Werehog in the same game. We don't know how he controls in the open-world yet, but if it's just boost but in wide spaces, then going from that to corridors, and then to 2D planes wouldn't be a big jump.

[Sega DogTagz]

38 minutes ago, Cosmos Rogue said:

I think an open world might actually be the solution to the "content sustainability" problem. If the problem is that you need to make massive levels to accommodate Sonic's speed, then it might make sense to make a game where exploring massive environments is the point of the game. Instead of building massive levels to accommodate Sonic's speed, make a game about exploring massive levels with Sonic's speed being one of the tools the player has to facilitate that exploration.

 

Well, if the older leaks are anything to go by

 

Spoiler

There are still boost levels in the game, so your stacking the already heavy workload of boost levels on top of the open world, which compounds the original problem even more.

 

But irregardless of that, if the problem was pinpointed as laying out Unleashed amounts of track being too design intensive, then how do you come to the conclusion that laying out even more track as a viable solution? If building levels in a few corridors took too much out of the team, then how does crafting an entire world supposed to make that palatable? All your doing is throwing even more assets onto their plates.

[Enesephus]

11 minutes ago, Sega DogTagz said:

Well, if the older leaks are anything to go by

  Hide contents

There are still boost levels in the game, so your stacking the already heavy workload of boost levels on top of the open world, which compounds the original problem even more.

Not necessarily. If these are for obtaining Chaos Emeralds, there may only be seven of them, and they could be anywhere in length from the day stages in Unleashed to the stages in Forces. They're also described as taking place in "cyberspace," so they'll probably all be variations on the same aesthetic, with the environmental diversity reserved for the open world, if that's meant to be the draw of the game.

[Zoomzeta]

53 minutes ago, Sega DogTagz said:

 

Well, if the older leaks are anything to go by

 

  Reveal hidden contents

There are still boost levels in the game, so your stacking the already heavy workload of boost levels on top of the open world, which compounds the original problem even more.

 

But irregardless of that, if the problem was pinpointed as laying out Unleashed amounts of track being too design intensive, then how do you come to the conclusion that laying out even more track as a viable solution? If building levels in a few corridors took too much out of the team, then how does crafting an entire world supposed to make that palatable? All your doing is throwing even more assets onto their plates.

I'm still trying to figure out the logic behind that admittedly. The only real positive I can think is that the more openworld environment would allow traversal to be something that can be done at your own pace, since you're given the freedom to explore the game's world as you wish. But that's about it for now. 

Anyone willing to throw the pros and cons of this game taking a more open world route rather than the strictly linear on rail platforming of prior games? 

[Dr. Detective]

I've honestly been struggling to find anything to say here in the prelude to possible excitement/disaopointment/both. The only thing I can really say is that I remain hopeful that the open-world thing is true because the last decade or so of stuff has just completely left me drained a bit. I'm at the point where talking about doing stuff like that correctly or incorporating other playable characters well is kind of pointless because I'm more than 100% sure that I would champion it regardless if it was done well at this point. 

Talk of how well it can be done or how Tails being playable would need some kinks ironed out or whatever just kind of flies over my head now. I just want them to go for it. I need some reassurance that some level of ambition has been resurrected here or else I'm not sure what I'll do as far as the games are concerned after this. 

[Kazhnuz]

2 hours ago, Zoomzeta said:

Anyone willing to throw the pros and cons of this game taking a more open world route rather than the strictly linear on rail platforming of prior games? 

I would say that the biggest pro that I see, it's that open to them some more level design/puzzle idea, as it's less annoying in an openworld to make you stop to do something than in a linear Sonic game. As in a linear Sonic game, the puzzle will be an obstacle to your destination, while in an openworld, it can be your destination, before going somewhere else. It's less a "wall", in a way, as you'll have other way to go.

( Also, stuff like repetitiveness/having several time the same boss or some place that are a bit empty can be less annoying too, if they don't go too far ofc ).

There is also kinda more knowledge available about making an openworld game than a traditional 3D Sonic game (more other games to study, stuff where they can add their own vision or adapt stuff from their previous games to make them "new"), so it might also be something usefull to them I think ? Especially as SEGA CS seems to work more on RPG-like games, so they might have more people that could help design such a game.

The biggest con that I see are the three obvious one :

- More work to fill out the world. Also, having more poossibilities can also be a trap, as if they abuse making stuff too much repetitive, having to stop for puzzle too much, etc… might be detrimental to the game. So they have more possibilities, but it doesn't mean that everything they can do now would be good xD

- Openworld = more possibilities = more risk of glitches (even if it's not my biggest fear, even if SCU was bad in that level, Sonic Team games aren't that bad)

- Graphic wise, it'll either be more intensive (poor Switch) or less pretty that it could be if it's linear.

- The narrative design of an openworld is often a tad harder to do. Notice that if they decide to not do a really story-heavy Sonic game, it won't be as much an issue.

 

So basically, an open-world open to them more possibilities (and maybe inspire them more : maybe they also WANT to make an openworld game more than making a linear one. I mean, yes SEGA is a corporation, but this team kinda need to tackle a challenge, especially after something as safe as Forces), but is more work as a result and they might fall into some trap, from my point of view.

Now, I honestly don't believe that it'll be as polished as a Nintendo openworld xD What I hope is more for something interesting and fun, even if a bit messy.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

3 hours ago, Sega DogTagz said:

 

Well, if the older leaks are anything to go by

 

  Hide contents

There are still boost levels in the game, so your stacking the already heavy workload of boost levels on top of the open world, which compounds the original problem even more.

 

But irregardless of that, if the problem was pinpointed as laying out Unleashed amounts of track being too design intensive, then how do you come to the conclusion that laying out even more track as a viable solution? If building levels in a few corridors took too much out of the team, then how does crafting an entire world supposed to make that palatable? All your doing is throwing even more assets onto their plates.

I thought more assets was the point to make it more sustainable?

Either way, I can see the difference in the narrow tracks a la Unleashed and an Open World—much like screwing around with the mechanics of BotW, you’d be screwing around with the speed launching you from place to place for shits and giggles much like you would if you were playing Sonic 3&K.

Of course, that’s just an oversimplification, and there should be more than that, but it’s the difference between running through hallways and running through a playground that (ideally) would set them apart.

Whether they pull it off or not is anyone’s guess.

[Red Hot Jack]

I still consider the open world possibly a giant hub world and the cyberspace boost stages the main zones, Dakii's video talks about

Spoiler

Green Hill and Chemical Plant-inspired cyberspace stages as new zones

 

[Razule]

4 hours ago, Red Hot Jack said:

I still consider the open world possibly a giant hub world and the cyberspace boost stages the main zones, Dakii's video talks about

  Hide contents

Green Hill and Chemical Plant-inspired cyberspace stages as new zones 

 

The way it's been described, the open world sounds like it's where you spend the majority of the game, with puzzles, enemies, and bosses, while cyberspace is essentially just seven Special Stages. 

[BadBehavior]

1 hour ago, Razule said:

The way it's been described, the open world sounds like it's where you spend the majority of the game, with puzzles, enemies, and bosses, while cyberspace is essentially just seven Special Stages. 

If thats the case, then provided the special stages are the only 2D in the whole game, that could make it easier to swallow.

[Razule]

42 minutes ago, BadBehavior said:

If thats the case, then provided the special stages are the only 2D in the whole game, that could make it easier to swallow.

Yeah. I just hope the world won't be endless forests, and trees, and fields if it's going to be 90% of the game.

[___]

Surely they'd know to have more than just one environment type if they're aping BotW or Genshin or whatever. I'd love to see a snow area, a deserty canyon area, a beach/shoreline area. Just some diversity of any kind. And please have some style to it too. I don't want "real is brown" in a Sonic game.

[phobs]

https://frontiers.sonicthehedgehog.com/

was updated and it no longer shows 403 error, but instead shows XML error and no access. Basically, the website is ready to be launched any moment

[LegoFedora]

Hopefully we finally get some news tonight at TGA. Sonic Team didn't really have anything showable back during the sonic direct, so hopefully they have a bit more than a tiny cgi trailer this time (please don't repeat Forces and only show us an in-game cutscene). The open world leaks sound neat, but I still kind of hope they stick with linear. In my opinion, Sonic is the last series that would work with an open world, just because of his main gimmick being speed means you'd have to clutter the world with so many obstacles that would make Unleashed's DLC levels blush. Otherwise, you run the problem of just aimlessly running in a straight line with nothing interesting happening. If the "open world" was just the equivalent to an expanded hub world like Unleashed had, it'd be a lot less of a problem since it'd only be a means of selecting actual levels.

Could it work? Sure, and I hope it does. But I'm not too surprised if they don't nail it, they're barely managing a super linear gameplay style as is. At the very least, we may get some insight to the story which would be cool. I hope this is a sequel to forces and explains where Infinite went at the end of time, since he did just kinda poof away.