Megathread Sonic Frontiers (2022) | MT | General Discussion (DO NOT discuss leaks here please)

[Shiny Gems]

What do you all think of this Spin Dash thing?

Spoiler

 

 

[Sega DogTagz]

Spoiler

Its not like they are going to adjust the level geometry to accommodate for all this extra rolling.

I honestly don't think putting it in here is worth the effort. Build it in organically in the next game and take advantage of its strengths from the core level design out. Tacking it onto the system we have now in Frontiers can only do so much, even if they play around with the momentum modifiers. The terrain just isn't designed to provide an optimal experience for it. 

 

[LegoFedora]

The spindash and drop dash don't really have any good uses in Frontiers, both the cyberspace or open zone areas. Maybe they're just using this time to tweak them and get the specifics right so the next game can be more focused on using them? Maybe the spindash could be good in cyberspace though, the boost won't carry slope physics while the spindash/rolling might.

[Shiny Gems]

Here is a little something for you all, in case you have not seen it yet.

[Shiny Gems]

Sorry for the extra post, even though it has been a while, but…

 

[Forgeafrontier]

On 8/25/2022 at 3:20 PM, Wraith said:

The way to fix this is to do a hard refresh of the team, get new creators involved with the IP and give them the time and space to work. That would take years and require a lot of hard sacrifices for fans and creatives alike, but look at where the Sonic comic is at compared to where it started. That only happened because new people that were passionate about the IP were brought in, slowly but surely, and did the work. It still has problems, but it shows growth is possible if you're willing to make some hard calls and commit to a consistent product.

BA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA ahem, ahem

 

Yeah you are definitely living in a cave blocked by large boulders in siberia if you unironically think this. Check out idw getting removed from the NY stock exchange making them practically irrelevant to the public, recent sega press meetings and financial documents not mentioning idw at all in regards to sonic's global reach (the most recent mentioned that fucking shit tier steve aoki concert over idw) and finally check out the sonic fanbase on social media and witness all the grueling discussions over the quality of the art and writing in these comics if you want a small taste on how these comics are really received. Yeah sonic team is a clumsy bunch we get it, but if you're gonna criticize them by comparison, at least do maybe a tiny bit of research on what you are comparing them to. It will prevent to kindly put it...posts with incorrect information from ending up on this forum.

[Shaddy Zaphod]

Wow, imagine both having no idea what the fuck you're talking about and being a condescending prick about it. Your posts here have been ignorant about Sonic and many professional industries in general, but the real problem is your callous disrespect for both creators and fans. I disagree with Wraith on many things but he is unambiguously correct here, while you're responding to a nearly year-old post, acting like a child.

[Indigo Rush]

Quote

Forgeafrontier's above post 

What on earth are you babbling about?

For starters, you're being cringingly juvenile with that tone. You're embarrassing yourself.

Secondly, Wraith's post was from August of last year, so why even feel the need to respond to it, what, nine months later? That post was in regard to the writing quality of the comics as of 2022. You don't get to jump in and act like a clown just because (you think) you have hindsight and a Twitter account that's curated for Sonic discourse.

And third, Wraith is still right in principle anyway regardless if IDW is fumbling as a business. The writing and art in IDW Sonic is far above the level that Sonic Team has put out by that point and has nothing to do with the declining sales of comic books in general.

[Forgeafrontier]

42 minutes ago, Indigo Rush said:

What on earth are you babbling about?

For starters, you're being cringingly juvenile with that tone. You're embarrassing yourself.

sorry, i was just scrolling through this page, i saw wraiths post and got a little upset because it was not only incorrect in certain regards but also really inhumane. I have HEAVILY criticized sonic team, I even made a thread here asking if certain issues might be due to some incompetency within the studio regarding management and role assignment, but just calling them "bad devs" is very disingenuous

[Shaddy Zaphod]

You didn't quote the part where wraith calls them "bad devs", but more importantly, you're not really acting any better.

[Forgeafrontier]

1 hour ago, Shaddy Zaphod said:

Wow, imagine both having no idea what the fuck you're talking about and being a condescending prick about it. Your posts here have been ignorant about Sonic and many professional industries in general, but the real problem is your callous disrespect for both creators and fans. I disagree with Wraith on many things but he is unambiguously correct here, while you're responding to a nearly year-old post, acting like a child.

I don't believe I have been disrespectful here to fans or creators aside from me responding to wraiths post. As for professional industries, I just state my opinions on sonic games and their qualities. Wraith tends to argue VERY aggresively here and when you argue aggressively that leads people to respond aggresively.

1 hour ago, Indigo Rush said:

And third, Wraith is still right in principle anyway regardless if IDW is fumbling as a business. The writing and art in IDW Sonic is far above the level that Sonic Team has put out by that point and has nothing to do with the declining sales of comic books in general.

I completely disagree, especially compared to frontiers in the writing department. IDW is very very flawed for me, I stopped reading the comics because I honestly found them (from a writing perspective not dialogue) to do more of a disservice to sonic's character than the 2010 games, alongside retreading tropes from archie and pop culture in general, zombie stories just bore me in general now, they have been written in nearly every single way possible.

[Shaddy Zaphod]

29 minutes ago, Forgeafrontier said:

I don't believe I have been disrespectful here to fans or creators aside from me responding to wraiths post. Wraith tends to argue VERY aggresively here and when you argue aggressively that leads people to respond aggresively.

I understand better than anyone that fans often treat Sonic Team less as artists to be criticized and more like the man who ran over their dog, but it doesn't justify the response. You're here saying that the reason you quoted it was because you had an emotional reaction to Wraith calling ST bad devs...except your post doesn't follow that at all. You don't quote that bit in the first place, hence me coming to its defense despite disagreeing with the point. But even if you had...the thing you said has nothing to do with that!

What you did was clip Wraith saying "Young, passionate new blood in Sonic Team's higher-ups is what will improve the series the same way it made the newer comics better", and attacked it by saying that...IDW is in financial dire straits, and some twitter kids argue about the art style. Except...IDW was already in "just OK" shape when Sonic partnered with them, and Sonic has consistently been their best-selling property, hence it not being canceled despite how far the company has fallen. And importantly...this was almost a year ago, when IDW wasn't as bust as they are now, and Sonic Forces was the most recent Sonic Team game, which for many would justify calling them bad devs.

But even still! None of this actually refutes the point, which is that Sonic comics now are much better than they were in the 90s/early-mid 00s because of the work of passionate, younger writers and artists. If you're trying to argue that "the facts say otherwise", then show your work. If you're really expecting me to believe you just got angry at the post for insulting Sonic Team, you're asking us to make the connection your point is that IDW is in bad shape money-wise, therefore the Sonic comics are bad, therefore the comics are bad because of the people working on them, therefore Sonic games would be worse if they hired new passionate developers. This is not a sound argument.

Finally, while I think it's wrong to call Sonic Team bad devs for most of their lifespan...that doesn't justify being a dickhead. If you think someone else is being a dickhead, you should try to do better than them.

 

 

[Forgeafrontier]

27 minutes ago, Shaddy Zaphod said:

I understand better than anyone that fans often treat Sonic Team less as artists to be criticized and more like the man who ran over their dog, but it doesn't justify the response. You're here saying that the reason you quoted it was because you had an emotional reaction to Wraith calling ST bad devs...except your post doesn't follow that at all. You don't quote that bit in the first place, hence me coming to its defense despite disagreeing with the point. But even if you had...the thing you said has nothing to do with that!

I specifically quoted that part to show the hypocrisy of wraiths post. Calling sonic team unsuccessful and untalented yet praising mediocre at best comics selling poorly compared to archie and being part of a failing company is  a bit weird to me.

[Indigo Rush]

The fiscal status of IDW in relation to another comic company is wholly irrelevant to the initial argument.

Whether or not comics sell well is fluff for your argument that the comics are mediocre: which is not only a very reductive and hollow rebuttal as is, but is seen through the lens of a fandom that is constantly comparing different branches of the same multimedia franchise and will show their bias for or against the games or comics.

Not liking the story direction or interpretation of a character isn't synonymous with bad writing, and citing playground tier arguments on social media as proof of poor quality is extremely shaky ground. 

Be that as it may, this is the Sonic Frontiers Megathread, and this tangent really has nothing to do with the game. 

[Wraith]

2 hours ago, Forgeafrontier said:

I specifically quoted that part to show the hypocrisy of wraiths post. Calling sonic team unsuccessful and untalented yet praising mediocre at best comics selling poorly compared to archie and being part of a failing company is  a bit weird to me.

Which is why I ignored your reply at first. It doesn't address any point I actually made and is just more crying that I treat Sonic Team like people trying to sell me a product and not like my friends. 

My post was about growth. Whatever problems people have with the comic doesn't change the fact that they're objectively a better product than they were in the 90s and 2000s. That's the ONLY point I made wrt the comic and I only made it so that there was a reference point that was easy for people who only consume Sonic media to understand. You still fell short of that understanding somehow but I guess I should expect as much from this fanbase.

I wouldn't even change the point about them being bad developers in the wake of Frontiers btw. Everything I said there is still correct. If it wasn't you would have argued one of the points I made there instead of seeing me praising IDW and bringing up obviously canned arguments from your Twitter shitflinging contests. Call it disrespectful if want but you wouldn't be on here making threads asking if they're incompetent if I didn't have a point. 

 

[Dreadknux]

13 hours ago, Forgeafrontier said:

BA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA ahem, ahem

[snip]

You’re free to disagree with someone - and your follow-up posts seem to be a lot more level-headed - but tone the unnecessary aggression down a bit. It’s undeserved and total cringe. Especially when you’re essentially necro-bumping a topic.

Anyway, carry on.

[Candescence]

So I finally got this game on Steam thanks to the latest sale. I heard this game has negative mouse acceleration, but... I wasn't prepared for how bad it is.

I really hope someone makes a mod for better mouse and keyboard controls, because holy crap this negative mouse acceleration is dreadful, even on max sensitivity. In fact, the way KBM is implemented in this port is just straight up amateur-hour. Who puts the pause menu on the P key nowadays rather than escape and/or enter?

This really sucks, because this should be the sort of game that could play really well with KBM. The fact that someone actually playtested this with the dreadful-feeling negative mouse acceleration and thought this was fine is an absolute travesty. The fact that this happened so soon after the same issue was present in Person 5 Strikers is especially frustrating to me.

Like... This alone is enough to make the PC port a 4/10 for me. Technically it runs really well and there's basically no problems otherwise? But the fact that KBM was obviously such a massive afterthought is enough to call this a bad port.

[Shiny Gems]

I thought I would revive this thread, for when the final update comes and we can talk about the new adventure mode.

Remember to use spoilers, though, everyone.

[Candescence]

Just updated on PC, and... Nope, they still haven't fixed the mouse camera. Goddamn it. I really hope they either fix that in a future patch or someone mods in a fix, because that just sucks.

[Sega DogTagz]

Anyone able to confirm how to access the new content? Are we starting a new game + or are you able to continue from a completed games save or something?

[Shiny Gems]

2 minutes ago, Sega DogTagz said:

Anyone able to confirm how to access the new content? Are we starting a new game + or are you able to continue from a completed games save or something?

There should be a ring with some swirling patterns in it that you must go in to start the story. It is accessible in the game's main story mode, and it is in the south east part of the island. It is the swirling kind of pattern on the map, you can't miss it.

[Sean]

I finished this last night (not counting the DLC). It was okay.

I legitimately don't feel too strongly either way about Frontiers at the end of the day which I think is the thing that sucks the most about my experience. It has good highs and some bad lows, but not HIGH highs or ATROCIOUS lows either.

Things I enjoyed about the game:

+Running around the open zones and doing whatever I feel like, occasionally solving small puzzles or mini platforming sections is fun and a good way for me to relax and just mess around as Sonic without needing to commit to a playthrough of another game. It brings back memories of when I used to mess around in SA1's adventure fields not doing anything in particular.
+The level design in cyberspace is generally good when it's not reusing old level layouts. Definitely several steps above Colors and Forces' designs.
+The soundtrack is stellar all across the board. The ambient open zone music, nearly all of the cyberspace level themes, several of the vocal boss battle themes, and the credits theme are all good here. No complaints.
+Characterization is spot-on for everybody and Ian did a pretty good job salvaging some of the more contentious character moments of the last few games lol. It's really nice seeing Sonic actually comment on environments and shoot the shit with the cast without having to crack one-liners about it, it gives me the impression that he's this very worldly guy who's interested in culture and history as befitting of someone who loves traveling the world in his spare time.

Things I have mixed feelings on:

*Sonic's controls. Some of the updates did alleviate some of my initial complaints such as not being able to maintain a boost while jumping or the heavy deceleration while in the air. But something about Sonic just doesn't feel good to control when doing precision platforming. He turns around like Mario does in SM64 where they do this little circle instead of snapping to the direction you push the stick... except sometimes they do anyway?? It took me a while of messing with the options screen to get a version of Sonic I felt I was comfortable with, but not being able to use the majority of them in cyberspace makes them moot in one of the game's main attractions.
*The writing and story. I actually couldn't follow the story very well and most of the cutscenes are just characters standing around talking, not getting enough action done. I still don't even fully understand who or what the main villain of the game was lol. The writing is good as expected of Ian, but I think there are far too many winks and nods to past Sonic games that don't really need to get mentioned all the time (e.g. when Sage talks about Eggman having worked with Sonic in the past, she namedrops the ARK and Neo Metal Sonic). I'm fine with bringing up past events when it's done in an organic way but the references are mostly just "Hey this reminds me of the time when X."

Things I hated:

-The combat is fucking terrible. Sorry but there's just nothing good about it. Battles are so frustrating and always grind whatever enjoyment I'm having in the moment to a halt; part of the reason it took so long for me to finish this game was that I just didn't want to progress the story and deal with the next guardian or titan on the agenda. Enemies get more and more annoying as the game goes on; special shout out to that fucking wolf pack on Ouranos where you have to parry six of them in a row and if you mess up you have to start all over and this continues until a certain amount of time where they just fucking kill you, and no there's no way to actually escape this battle which is the only non-boss enemy encounter in the entire game where this happens. The inputs are all whacked and I often end up performing moves I didn't mean to, like Sonic's orb attack when all I wanted was to fucking homing attack. The strategy I employed for 80% of all fights in the game was just to spam that aerial wind kick move with the L2 button because it's the fastest way to kill most enemies. I legitimately enjoyed the werehog gameplay in Unleashed more than I did any of the combat in Frontiers whatsoever. It sucks ass.
-The final boss of the game. What the hell were they thinking? I hate bullet hell and it blows my mind they thought to put these minigames into a game aimed at children. I legitimately thought it was going to lead into another phase until I realized 5 minutes already passed and it was taking fucking forever to beat him, and I only barely managed to do so because you only get two lives and it's random when the game decides a shot is gonna kill you or not. Also I played in Japanese and the boss is talking during the entire fight meaning I didn't understand a fucking word he said, and even if I were playing in English I doubt I'd be able to catch most of the dialogue because I was so focused on trying to not fucking die and THERE ARE NO SUBTITLES. So if you're playing in another language or are hard of hearing then Sonic Says you can go fuck yourself.

Yeah. I honestly thought I was gonna have a much longer list than this, but these are the only real things I can think of at the moment because Frontiers didn't wow me the way I hoped it would. I had decently high hopes for it and was even having a lot of fun at first until partway through the second island when I realized this was the entire gameplay loop and it was getting old extremely fast. There's a lot of padded content and it took me about 30 hours to finish the story when I feel if I remove all the stuff I didn't care for or straight up hate, it'd probably be half that time at most. If I had to give Frontiers a rating it'd be a 7 out of 10, with 5 being middle of the road - for comparison's sake I consider Forces a 4. So both games are above average and below average respectively, but while I liked Frontiers a whole lot more than Forces, neither game impacted me the way some of Sonic's best games in the past have. The fact that Sonic Team wants to build off this gameplay formula worries me since I want them to get rid of the fucking combat system and improve Sonic's controls during platforming.