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Sonic Frontiers (2022) | MT | General Discussion (DO NOT discuss leaks here please)


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2 hours ago, NoKaine said:

Going all the way to 2022 for a game that was to come out in 2021 over a pandemic that happened in 2020 for a game that started development in 2019 at the latest seems implausible.

The theory was that the pandemic slowed progress enough in 2020 that it would need to be pushed to 2022. 

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22 hours ago, A Cup of Hot Milo said:

Jun Senoue had an interview with NME about the past thirty years of the Sonic franchise, and his personal history and contributions. Interview is worth a read on its own terms, but I'm posting it here because Senoue also confirms he is involved with the music for Frontiers.

 

A bit of clarification is necessary. Senoue doesn't confirm he's working on Frontiers in any capacity at all in that quote, and the way that it's written in the article sounds like conjecture from the author. Ohtani has since posted this on Twitter:

He's not specific about what might not be true, but the only news in the article is about Senoue's involvement in Frontiers. There are other small inaccuracies such as when Crush 40 was formed, and some confusing wording that implies that Smash Bros is a SEGA game. Take it as you will.

Senoue hasn't been actively involved in the soundtracks of many recent Sonic games, usually just taking advisory or technical roles rather than producing, composing and performing music himself. As much as I want to see him return to score another big mainline entry for the first time since Generations, Ohtani has been the sound director for Sonic games almost consistently since 2006. He also worked on the music for the GA trailer. I expect Ohtani to be the lead man on the soundtrack until we're told otherwise. 

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Ohtani's probably the better fit for this game over the two anyway. The game is supposed to be more subdued and melancholy. I can't see Jun's over the top approach being a good fit. 

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I agree, Ohtani's a better fit for Frontiers, and Senoue's Over the top apporach is too bad according to my Predictions but still, I want Crush 40 back in Frontiers with a Theme Song like His World from Sonic 06 for Example. 

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On 12/31/2021 at 9:51 PM, phobs said:

SEGA SAMMY group published their documents about their financial results for 2021 and that's what SEGA had to say about Sonic Frontiers to their shareholders:

57814279_ScreenShot2021-12-31at9_49_46PM.thumb.png.5d98fa782b5e0228bd739bf3bc1b4af5.png

The good thing about this is that this isn't marketing. It's illegal to lie to your shareholders so it appears, at the least, SEGA management actually believes this game will be quality. It's kinda crazy they never did external game testing before and I think/hope it will show in the final product.

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Doesn't matter if they delay the game by 1 year or 10 years, SEGA has proven that they can and will still release an unfinished product like Sonic Colors Ultimate even after everything the franchise has been through.

Also even if the game is polished and glitch-free, it doesn't mean the game itself will be good. I mean the director is still Morio Kishimoto.

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17 hours ago, StellarBlur said:

The good thing about this is that this isn't marketing. It's illegal to lie to your shareholders so it appears, at the least, SEGA management actually believes this game will be quality. It's kinda crazy they never did external game testing before and I think/hope it will show in the final product.

Let's hope, but I'll have to side with @Detective Kaito here. We need more information to make sure this isn't another turd.

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5 hours ago, KingMario05 said:

Let's hope, but I'll have to side with @Detective Kaito here. We need more information to make sure this isn't another turd.

Well, I have to say, in regards to them saying that Sega said stuff like that in the past, it may not have turned out like that because of some factors thrown into the development, some unexpected. I heard the restructuring back then after Sonic Boom: Rise of Lyric affected Forces. Some say that might not be true, so I am not sure on that, but even though I am counting this as an example for that matter, that could be a factor thrown into why games like Forces did not turn so out well, alongside other things like bad development decisions, rushing, working on the Hedgehog Engine 2 for more years in the case of Forces, and in the case of Colors Ultimate, I'd say Sega not knowing how Blind Squirrel Entertainment would handle the game, let alone not checking its state before releasing, among other things, would be factors.

However, I should probably note that what @Detective Kaitosaid about a game being polished and glitch free, or being worked on for years and still being bad isn't untrue. I am sure there are other cases where this happened, like Duke Nukem Forever, for instance.

Either way, it is probably best to wait and see what happens or what gets shown before taking Sega's word for what they said.

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Best case scenario is that they decided to delay the game, because of the feedback by the playtesters. So now they wil add things like the spindash, more stuff to the world etc.

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2 hours ago, CrystalMaelStorm said:

I heard the restructuring back then after Sonic Boom: Rise of Lyric affected Forces. Some say that might not be true, so I am not sure on that, but even though I am counting this as an example for that matter, that could be a factor thrown into why games like Forces did not turn so out well,

Forces was actually polished, i don't think 1 or 2 more years in development would make difference for this specific game,cause that was actually their vision for it, based on interviews at the time, and their GDC talk like how they purposefully simplified the level design, made it easier etc.  ,i remember data mining proving this with older versions of stages having more stuff but they scrapped all that, even though the work was already done

 

Game may felt stiff with worse controls and really short, but outside one instance -that space void stuff-, it didn't really felt incomplete, in the same way games like 2006 and Rise of lyrics were, Forces wouldn't be that different if it released in 2019 instead

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4 hours ago, MH MD said:

Forces was actually polished, i don't think 1 or 2 more years in development would make difference for this specific game,cause that was actually their vision for it, based on interviews at the time, and their GDC talk like how they purposefully simplified the level design, made it easier etc.  ,i remember data mining proving this with older versions of stages having more stuff but they scrapped all that, even though the work was already done

 

Game may felt stiff with worse controls and really short, but outside one instance -that space void stuff-, it didn't really felt incomplete, in the same way games like 2006 and Rise of lyrics were, Forces wouldn't be that different if it released in 2019 instead

Technically, I never said Forces was not polished, or was bad at all, or that bad, anyway. I liked Forces despite its flaws. I was just saying if Sega said things like they were taking their time with games such as but not limited to Forces, there were other factors as to why they still did not turn out good.

Plus, some of what you said can be attributed to what I said about bad decisions being a factor, if not, anything along those lines or similar.

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9 hours ago, FirePheonix said:

Best case scenario is that they decided to delay the game, because of the feedback by the playtesters. So now they wil add things like the spindash, more stuff to the world etc.

I feel like adding the spindash is something that would require a big overhaul to the existing game design 

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1 hour ago, BubbleButt TV said:

I feel like adding the spindash is something that would require a big overhaul to the existing game design 

If the game was designed around boost (which it clearly isn't), then yes it would, but if the leaks are true, I believe they were keeping the test zone neutral in design so that it could work for boost or spindash, then they could see which is preferred.

I'm too busy to find video or photo reference for this, but in the Frontiers trailer there are sections on the towers and another wall that are blue. Could this be an indication for Lost World-esque climbing and parkour like we've suggested? There doesn't seem to be any other way to get all the way up the tower.

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16 hours ago, Detective Kaito said:

Doesn't matter if they delay the game by 1 year or 10 years, SEGA has proven that they can and will still release an unfinished product like Sonic Colors Ultimate even after everything the franchise has been through.

Also even if the game is polished and glitch-free, it doesn't mean the game itself will be good. I mean the director is still Morio Kishimoto.

A remaster (of an already well-received game) made under the control of a different development team =/= the next big main series game and what the head of Sonic Team says will be the template of the main series going forward.

If SEGA cared about Colors Ultimate as much as they do Frontiers, it would have also been delayed. But that's a difference of priorities.

If they wanted to do Frontiers like that, we wouldn't be speculating--it would have already been out.

And as someone else put it, Sonic hasn't been "unfinished" in years. Forces and Lost World you cannot call "unfinished" by any means, and since Unleashed the Sonic Team games have been very stable. Colors Ultimate is a glaring exception and not even a Sonic Team game. In fact, it seems like if Sonic Team DID make Colors Ultimate, it'd be flawless.

I've said it before, but you don't announce to your shareholders that a game will be delayed for polish if the delay was to make the game work at all. Besides legal ambiguity, it'd be pretty ballsy to say that to the people who make sure you have money to make the game at all.

If all the rumors are true, and it sounds like they are, then it sounds like Sonic Team got a pretty early grasp on the game and what they want to make, so the idea that in 2020 it was literally unplayable is silly. 

Kishimoto also made Colors, and open-world Sonic is untapped territory for any developer. Did you know the director of Skyward Sword also made Breath of the Wild? Glow-ups happen. "But Sonic isn't as good as--" Not the point. A director went from a highly linear game and one of the most controversial to one of the most open open-world games and what is considered a vast improvement. It happens.

 

23 minutes ago, CertifiedNobody said:

I'm too busy to find video or photo reference for this, but in the Frontiers trailer there are sections on the towers and another wall that are blue. Could this be an indication for Lost World-esque climbing and parkour like we've suggested? There doesn't seem to be any other way to get all the way up the tower.

A lot of aspects seem like they can't be traversed without a mechanic like that, so I'd bet. Might be what leaks mean when they say "Lost World gameplay."

It'd also be emulating a big part of Breath of the Wild's gameplay (i.e., climbing) too.

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9 minutes ago, NoKaine said:

A remaster (of an already well-received game) made under the control of a different development team =/= the next big main series game and what the head of Sonic Team says will be the template of the main series going forward.

If SEGA cared about Colors Ultimate as much as they do Frontiers, it would have also been delayed. But that's a difference of priorities.

And as someone else put it, Sonic hasn't been "unfinished" in years. Forces and Lost World you cannot call "unfinished" by any means, and since Unleashed the Sonic Team games have been very stable. 

I've said it before, but you don't announce to your shareholders that a game will be delayed for polished if it was to make the game work at all.

Kishimoto also made Colors, and open-world Sonic is untapped territory for any developer. Did you know the director of Skyward Sword also made Breath of the Wild? Glow-ups happen.

Well there was Sonic Boom: RoL in-between that was an unfinished Sonic game SEGA slipped by...

But you can argue again like with Colors Ultimate that it was a different development team (even though it's supposed to launch the big spinoff and a new chapter for the franchise).

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12 minutes ago, Ming Ming Hatsune said:

Well there was Sonic Boom: RoL in-between that was an unfinished Sonic game SEGA slipped by...

No, that was a game SEGA actively fucked over lol

That wasn't apathy, that was straight up "SEGA saw it fit to actively make bad decisions that ruined what would have been an average game", like forcing the game to be exclusive to a system that literally could not run the engine it was built on. Big Red Button had to get Epic to make them a specialized version of the Unreal Engine to get the game to work at all. On top of having strict deadlines.

In reality, it's a fucking miracle that game even runs. If you read the whole story, BRB seem like programming gods.

Rise of Lyric's failure (the worst selling Sonic game of all time... which still sold better than like 90% of indie titles and some AA games) also resulted in massive restructuring, so the SEGA now may literally not be the same SEGA back then. It may have arguably affected games like Forces too.

Speaking of BoomFire & Ice was also delayed for quality and it was a distinct improvement over Shattered Crystal (which itself was better than Rise of Lyric [which isn't saying much, honesty {though Fire & Ice does seem like a decent game and if that was the standard that Boom set it would still be around}]).

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46 minutes ago, NoKaine said:

A lot of aspects seem like they can't be traversed without a mechanic like that, so I'd bet. Might be what leaks mean when they say "Lost World gameplay."

It'd also be emulating a big part of Breath of the Wild's gameplay (i.e., climbing) too.

I'd be okay with it here. Rather than emulating what BOTW did it takes the concept and gives it a Sonic-y twist. That's exactly what I want from this.

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Going back over the Japanese footage, the blue walls of the tower and the river definitely seem to be the same, so that makes the parkour theory more likely.

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4 hours ago, NoKaine said:

A remaster (of an already well-received game) made under the control of a different development team =/= the next big main series game and what the head of Sonic Team says will be the template of the main series going forward.

If SEGA cared about Colors Ultimate as much as they do Frontiers, it would have also been delayed. But that's a difference of priorities.

If they wanted to do Frontiers like that, we wouldn't be speculating--it would have already been out.

And as someone else put it, Sonic hasn't been "unfinished" in years. Forces and Lost World you cannot call "unfinished" by any means, and since Unleashed the Sonic Team games have been very stable. Colors Ultimate is a glaring exception and not even a Sonic Team game. In fact, it seems like if Sonic Team DID make Colors Ultimate, it'd be flawless.

I've said it before, but you don't announce to your shareholders that a game will be delayed for polish if the delay was to make the game work at all. Besides legal ambiguity, it'd be pretty ballsy to say that to the people who make sure you have money to make the game at all.

If all the rumors are true, and it sounds like they are, then it sounds like Sonic Team got a pretty early grasp on the game and what they want to make, so the idea that in 2020 it was literally unplayable is silly. 

Kishimoto also made Colors, and open-world Sonic is untapped territory for any developer. Did you know the director of Skyward Sword also made Breath of the Wild? Glow-ups happen. "But Sonic isn't as good as--" Not the point. A director went from a highly linear game and one of the most controversial to one of the most open open-world games and what is considered a vast improvement. It happens.

Funny you bring up the Zelda series, cause Skyward Sword was also remastered last year and it wasn't a disaster like Colors Ultimate. I don't care if Sonic Team made the remaster or not, fact is that SEGA made the conscious decision to release another unfinished Sonic game again, but we're giving them another chance again, cause we as humans apparently don't learn from our mistakes.

Also in what universe is Forces a "finished" game? Where's the Chaos boss fight? The Shadow boss fight? What about Infinite's two different backstories? Null Void stage? Sure Forces wasn't a buggy mess, but that doesn't mean it was finished by any means.

Also are you seriously comparing Eiji Aonuma or Hidemaro Fujibayashi, both who have worked on multiple quality Zelda games, to Morio Kishimoto, who has arguably only worked on one good game for his entire Sonic career? Sorry man, but there's literally zero reason to believe that Kishimoto will knock this one out of the park.

I'll eat my words if that """""glow-up""""" happens though.

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2 hours ago, NoKaine said:

A remaster (of an already well-received game) made under the control of a different development team =/= the next big main series game and what the head of Sonic Team says will be the template of the main series going forward.

If SEGA cared about Colors Ultimate as much as they do Frontiers, it would have also been delayed. But that's a difference of priorities.

If they wanted to do Frontiers like that, we wouldn't be speculating--it would have already been out.

And as someone else put it, Sonic hasn't been "unfinished" in years. Forces and Lost World you cannot call "unfinished" by any means, and since Unleashed the Sonic Team games have been very stable. Colors Ultimate is a glaring exception and not even a Sonic Team game. In fact, it seems like if Sonic Team DID make Colors Ultimate, it'd be flawless.

I've said it before, but you don't announce to your shareholders that a game will be delayed for polish if the delay was to make the game work at all. Besides legal ambiguity, it'd be pretty ballsy to say that to the people who make sure you have money to make the game at all.

If all the rumors are true, and it sounds like they are, then it sounds like Sonic Team got a pretty early grasp on the game and what they want to make, so the idea that in 2020 it was literally unplayable is silly. 

Kishimoto also made Colors, and open-world Sonic is untapped territory for any developer. Did you know the director of Skyward Sword also made Breath of the Wild? Glow-ups happen. "But Sonic isn't as good as--" Not the point. A director went from a highly linear game and one of the most controversial to one of the most open open-world games and what is considered a vast improvement. It happens.

 

A lot of aspects seem like they can't be traversed without a mechanic like that, so I'd bet. Might be what leaks mean when they say "Lost World gameplay."

It'd also be emulating a big part of Breath of the Wild's gameplay (i.e., climbing) too.

If I may continue this about your response to Katio, about Morio Kishimoto, he has only directed about three Sonic games so far. One was Colors, which was good, the other two were Forces and Lost World, which were about average. Average does not mean bad, and though it comes down to opinion, too many people in and out of the Sonic fanbase think average is bad, when it is not necessarily so. Plus, under his direction, Forces and Lost World were polished, so it is not like he is that bad a director. I think people give Morio too much hate, whether or not his directing suits fans tastes. Just because some do not like what he has done does not mean he is that bad. Plus, I did mention there were other factors that negatively impacted games like Lost World and Forces, some possibly outside his control. Morio so far has yet to make a truly bad Sonic game, I say.

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23 minutes ago, StellarBlur said:

Honestly, I'd feel way more confident about the game is Kishimoto wasn't associated with it. 

I don't really care what he's done in the past. Frontiers looks interesting and it's been quite a while since Forces and Frontiers doesn't seem remotely connected to it. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt until he gives me reason not to.

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I can totally understand why Kishimoto is a bummer for people, especially if we wanted a "change" and as his game style where often more 2D than 3D (and that he doesn't have the best track record).

It personally don't bother me that much tho, as I like some of the way he design stuff (I think that he tend to have more ideas that interest me, and I kinda liked Lost World for that, it was more diverse than previous Sonic games in its experiences), and I kinda makes me interesting in seeing how he'll tackle some of the concept of an openworld game. I kinda like seeing a designer outside of his previous projects.

I'm also kinda curious about the rest of the design team, for instance who will be the main game designer. I'm also curious of what role the producer will play on the game itself.

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46 minutes ago, Detective Kaito said:

Also in what universe is Forces a "finished" game? Where's the Chaos boss fight? The Shadow boss fight? What about Infinite's two different backstories? Null Void stage? Sure Forces wasn't a buggy mess, but that doesn't mean it was finished by any means.

Sure they cut a lot of corners to get it finished and had to change their vision of Sonic Forces, but it's still a finished game.

I was extremely disappointed with Sonic Forces on how it turned out, but it's still a short, functional, bang-average game with a finished story.

What I'm hoping for is that SEGA does not EVER repeat the same thing with Frontiers. I'm kinda giving them one last chance here otherwise I'm done with the games. Because if Frontiers doesn't return Sonic to its former high budget glory (last one was Unleashed), then nothing will.

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