I don't think they'll ever make a Mania 2 :(

[Scar]

Sega need to want to make it and Taxman needs to want to make it.

Without both of those it won't happen. Outside of pure hubris and pride, I can't imagine SEGA not wanting another money printer. So the limiting factor is I guess Taxman's desire to make another 2D Sonic game. The man may well have ambitions to make his own games, and not forever be known as the fangame maker-turned-developer who makes 2D Sonic games.

[Kuzu]

2 hours ago, MH MD said:

Are we forgetting Sonic Origins collection on purpose? If they really didn't care about establishing Classic Sonic, they wouldn't even bother with it, especially with mobile remasters out there.

No word yet doesn't mean no plans, that's like saying oh...SEGA abandoned Modern Sonic main games cause they didn't say anything about a new game for him for 4 years -until Frontiers unveiling - ,or that SEGA didn't plan a new Sonic racing game after Transformed cause they didn't announce anything for 6 years, or that Nintendo abandoned main Mario games cause they didn't announce anything for 5 years, you get the point .

Dismissing other Classic Sonic appearances is silly, companies usually don't market an iteration if they didn't plan on using it for something, you don't see Boom present for example, or something like Riders iteration, if anything, if they really didn't plan for Classic sonic to comeback anymore, they would just not make him appear anywhere anymore, as simple as that.

and we do have their word on classic sonic not too long ago:

 

They wouldn't bother saying those thing if they didn't have plans, usually they would do the opposite-like they 

They literally still use Sticks in marketing stuff to this very day. But nobody really assumes they're gonna ever do anything with Boom.

You're putting way too much faith in this company that always fails to capitalize on things the fanbase wants.

[MH MD]

3 hours ago, Kuzu said:

They literally still use Sticks in marketing stuff to this very day. But nobody really assumes they're gonna ever do anything with Boom.

You're putting way too much faith in this company that always fails to capitalize on things the fanbase wants.

Sticks use isn't really prominent as Classic Sonic and you know it -and wasn't she present in recent spin-offs that weren't Boom related? they kinda separated her from the Boom brand a bit-

and the thing is...they already capitalized on Classic Sonic anyway, from Mania itself where they literally extended support from it long after it's release, to as recently as the newly released Super Monkey Ball remaster from 2 months ago using Classic Sonic -and Classic Tails- instead of it's modern iteration.

and of course the upcoming classic collection.

it's not about putting faith, it's using what already happened and what evidences and things we already know to make conclusions.

Saying "it didn't happen by now" isn't evidence on it's own, cause lets face it, even main sonic games struggle those days to release in timely manner, by the time Frontiers release it would b 5 whole years since Forces, that's half a decade, and this gap  is pretty much unprecedented, is it logical to say that SEGA don't want to make sonic games anymore? of course not, if anything, they would love to make annual main Sonic games if they can, but the realities of games development these days are hard and they take longer time than they ever were in the past,and that include spin-offs and classic styled games *still waiting for Freedom Planet 2 after whole 5 years after playing it's demo*

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Considering how long it took for folks to even get a Mania proposed in the first place, who knows when a second will even be made?

[Milo]

On the topic of future Mega Drive efforts, I try to keep it focused on the fact that it was always Taxman(/Sega of America) who created the Discovery project and pitched that to Sonic Team/Sega of Japan, to get anything started for what would become Mania. He(/they) had to approach them on doing some sort of new MD Sonic project first, rather than the other way around.

Nobody had to go to Nintendo, Ubisoft, or Capcom and try to sell them a demonstration they built themselves; to get revivals like Metroid: Samus Returns, Rayman Origins, or Mega Man 11 off the ground. They had series producers and/or the series creators who were already invested in bringing those classic playstyles back, and they either did it in-house or reached out to whatever studios they thought were capable for the job.

(The Discovery pitch also deserves special mention in the sense that the project from its inception was entirely about the MD games and gameplay. It wasn't a companion piece/additional selling point to another Sonic game like with Generations and Forces, and it wasn't a unrelated project with MD iconography and legacy slapped onto it for marketing like with Sonic 4.)

If Sonic management/producers aren't interested in getting more MD games off the ground, it doesn't matter what everyone else thinks or how warmly previous/recent MD games were received. Either the mentality changes or the management itself changes for any future attempts to happen in earnest. At least that's how I see it.

[MH MD]

30 minutes ago, A Cup of Hot Milo said:

Nobody had to go to Nintendo, Ubisoft, or Capcom and try to sell them a demonstration they built themselves; to get revivals like Metroid: Samus Returns, Rayman Origins, or Mega Man 11 off the ground.

Nobody had to go to SEGA for them to include Classic Sonic in Generations either .... -or Sonic 4, sure we can count it if we count modern iterations of classic games like MM11 and Rayman Origin ..no? they weren't exactly "faithful" to classic games-

We know that after Inafune departure from Capcom, nobody there actually wanted to touch Mega Man for a long while, cause it was Inafune's darling and he got involved in all it's projects, and management didn't care for the franchise after his departure, it took close to 9 years and some collections success  to even see a new MM game from a young producer/director to get the project off the ground

Something similar happened to Rayman, with Ancel departure from ubisoft, except that Rayman is basically dead now

If someone pitched a new game of those franchises for capcom or Ubisoft, or Especially Nintendo, they would get rejected right away without question, the fact that SEGA not only listened and accepted the pitch, but actually increased it's scope of it, and even extended support for DLC, tells you that management were actually receptive to the idea,saw the value in it and took advantage of it, it's not like they can't say "NO", we know that SoR4 developers actually pitched for shinobi character to be added to SoR4 and SEGA rejected it, just like they rejected countless pitches for a new JSR game across the years

[Milo]

I already explained why I didn't consider Classic Sonic in Generations/Forces or Sonic 4 in that same vein as Mania when I was talking about Sega's lack of interested in initiating MD Sonic projects. The conception, incorporation, and overall focus of MD Sonic gameplay in those titles is clearly of a different nature than what Discovery/Mania was proposed as and what it ultimately turned out to be.

I'm not getting into the accuracy, current relevancy, gestation, or likeliness of pitch acceptances that you thought of with those games and their publishers that I didn't refer to. The studios behind those games in question (and similar titles of their ilk) had internal staff that wanted to get those games made, rather than having to be being asked to do so from outside parties; and I don't believe Sega's in that position with MD Sonic. That is the sole message of my original comment to the thread.

If you want to talk about Sega's positive efforts elsewhere, I'll leave you to it.

[Slashy]

Give me Sonic Advance 4 instead.

[BubbleButt TV]

the whole "people are tired of classic Sonic" thing peeves me because it's really not even true

people were annoyed with him being shoe-horned into modern sonic stuff but if he gets his own standalone titles no one will mind

Classic Sonic has more consistent quality and is probably more respected than modern

but realistically this whole classic vs modern divide is silly, sonic is sonic lol

[Slashy]

1 hour ago, BubbleButt TV said:

the whole "people are tired of classic Sonic" thing peeves me because it's really not even true

people were annoyed with him being shoe-horned into modern sonic stuff but if he gets his own standalone titles no one will mind

Classic Sonic has more consistent quality and is probably more respected than modern

but realistically this whole classic vs modern divide is silly, sonic is sonic lol

There shouldn't be two Sonics. The only reason Classic even exists is because SEGA is trying to make an attempt to pretend like the brand hasn't had any failures by tying the failures to a slightly different character design.

[Razule]

Calling Classic Sonic and the elements associated with the earlier parts of the franchise "Classic Sonic" just makes discussion easier. Problem is SEGA deciding to actually make them separate characters.

[Slashy]

16 minutes ago, Razule said:

Calling Classic Sonic and the elements associated with the earlier parts of the franchise "Classic Sonic" just makes discussion easier. Problem is SEGA deciding to actually make them separate characters.

It also makes me believe Modern Sonic is stuck being tied to the boost. How do you really classify something like Sonic Advance now when it was classic with new gameplay features? How do you classify something like Sonic Adventure when it was designed as Classic in 3D?

[Vlad the Vampire]

For me, it's quite simple : Sonic (the original Sonic, that is mainly the one from the Megadrive episodes) grew up and became (Modern) Sonic, and Classic Sonic was the original Sonic but, because of the events that happened in GENERATIONS), another timeline was created and thus, even if he was Sonic when he was young at the beginning, he became "the Sonic from another dimension" since every new timeline is a new dimension!!...
(I don't know if Classic Sonic has lived all Sonic's aventures before being captured by the Time Eater but now he has lived his own adventures which are GENERATIONS MANIA, FORCES and MANIA + ; I don't consider MANIA ADVENTURES since it was just a promotional anime but, if you wan't to consider it, then think of another new dimension maybe created by the return of the Phantom Ruby!!...)
In fact, think of Trunks's time travels in DRAGON BALL!!...

I think we will have new adventures for Classic Sonic in the future but I don't know if we'll see new adventures of Sonic when he was younger...

[Razule]

53 minutes ago, Slashy said:

It also makes me believe Modern Sonic is stuck being tied to the boost. How do you really classify something like Sonic Advance now when it was classic with new gameplay features? How do you classify something like Sonic Adventure when it was designed as Classic in 3D?

Adventure Sonic and Handheld Modern Sonic. Or 2D Modern Sonic? It's all semantics anyway.

Everything between 1998 and now is "Modern Sonic", aside from Sonic Mania. The Adventures-06 and Lost World are all part of that, so it isn't that they think the design is tied to one gameplay style. Classic Sonic is stuck in a timeless 90s bubble, while Modern Sonic can experiment and change. If the Boost sticks around, it's because they truly believe it's the best way for Sonic to move in 3D.

[KHCast]

I’ve yet to see anything that suggests SEGA when it comes to Sonic is competent and knows 100% what they’re doing, just because mania existed in the first place with a couple shorts. The fact that seems to be a discussion baffles me, and using media outside the games to make this argument doesn’t really do it for me, as, welcoming to marketing 101. It’s very obvious that company puts bare minimum attention on the series by and large, when it’s reputation and quality on the, you know, actual game front, continues to be such a scattershot/mediocre mess in comparison to damn near all their other game franchises, despite being the face of the company. All that considered, mania 2 just always seemed like a a long shot, the minute the mania team went off to do their own stuff. It’s not the first time Sega has passed up on good ideas with capitalizing on a well received things to do with the franchise. It’s like @Wraith put it best. Their management is bad

[Kuzu]

Maybe their management is just beyond our mortal understanding. 

[Iko]

I don't mind classic styled games, I just don't want 2D to be a Classic Sonic exclusive/3D Modern Sonic exclusive, I still would like to get games like the Advance and Rush series some day, with all the modern cast of characters and their unique powers/abilities, and wouldn't mind 3D classic games either.

I'm honestly tired of the classic sonic games that are a copy of Sonic 2/Sonic 3&K/Sonic CD, if Classic has to stay I would like for it to be as free as Modern is, without gameplay or canon/universe limitations: I would like it to be treated as just an art style that sometimes is used instead of Modern when it makes more sense to (such as Lost World, IMO it should have been a Classic Sonic game).

5 hours ago, BubbleButt TV said:

Classic Sonic has more consistent quality and is probably more respected than modern

Classic Sonic has a lot of mediocre and low quality games too, though they are usually spin offs and the main series ones are usually good.

[Kuzu]

I mean, the whole point of Classic is that its a throwback to that original artstyle and universe. Moving past that defeats the whole purpose. 

[D.H]

The idea that SEGA doesn't want to make a Mania 2 has never made sense to me, when they have never passed up on the chance to make a sequel to a critically & commercially successful Sonic game in the 30-year history of this series. SEGA's made incompetent decisions with the franchise, but they've either been related to them releasing unfinished games, dropping a gameplay style when it's not an immediate success instead of improving on it, or milking a formula dry until people are begging for something different. They've never released a game as successful as Sonic Mania & didn't at least follow it up with a sequel, that is an idea that has zero precedent for Sonic.

Fact is, between Evening Star developing their own title, Sonic having 3 games they're promoting between Colors Ultimate/Origins & most importantly Frontiers, as well as the litany of products they have on the side, there's no path for a Sonic Mania 2 right now. It doesn't mean SEGA is incompetent, or they're purposely leaving money on the table. Sometimes things just don't line up the way we want it & it's really nobody's fault.

 

[Slashy]

20 minutes ago, D.H said:

The idea that SEGA doesn't want to make a Mania 2 has never made sense to me, when they have never passed up on the chance to make a sequel to a critically & commercially successful Sonic game in the 30-year history of this series. SEGA's made incompetent decisions with the franchise, but they've either been related to them releasing unfinished games, dropping a gameplay style when it's not an immediate success instead of improving on it, or milking a formula dry until people are begging for something different. They've never released a game as successful as Sonic Mania & didn't at least follow it up with a sequel, that is an idea that has zero precedent for Sonic.

Fact is, between Evening Star developing their own title, Sonic having 3 games they're promoting between Colors Ultimate/Origins & most importantly Frontiers, as well as the litany of products they have on the side, there's no path for a Sonic Mania 2 right now. It doesn't mean SEGA is incompetent, or they're purposely leaving money on the table. Sometimes things just don't line up the way we want it & it's really nobody's fault.

 

It isn't without precedent.

After the success of Sonic 3, SEGA decided to not make a sequel for four years, until Iizuka wanted to make a new one and SEGA realized not having a major Sonic game on the SEGA Saturn was a horrible idea.

After making Sonic Generations SEGA decided to completely ditch the formula in that game and decided to do something new THEN after that failed decided a failed reboot of the series and ONLY 3 years after that failed did SEGA decide to go back to the gameplay of Generations.

[Iko]

1 hour ago, Kuzu said:

I mean, the whole point of Classic is that its a throwback to that original artstyle and universe. Moving past that defeats the whole purpose. 

If the only purpose of Classic Sonic is to be a nostalgia throwback, then it's dead on arrival and I kinda agree with Sega not making other sequels.

I mean, if you want to keep it relevant as a branch of the franchise, you have to keep it fresh and new as well, people will eventually get tired of playing the same stuff over and over, no matter how good it is.

Look at Nitrome's mobile game demo, that's an example of how you can still be new and innovative with Classic Sonic without sticking to its original gameplay from the Genesis titles.

I've nothing against it being a throwback to the original artstyle, I literally said it should be just an artstyle and not constrain the content or gameplay of a game.

[D.H]

8 minutes ago, Slashy said:

It isn't without precedent.

After the success of Sonic 3, SEGA decided to not make a sequel for four years, until Iizuka wanted to make a new one and SEGA realized not having a major Sonic game on the SEGA Saturn was a horrible idea.

After making Sonic Generations SEGA decided to completely ditch the formula in that game and decided to do something new THEN after that failed decided a failed reboot of the series and ONLY 3 years after that failed did SEGA decide to go back to the gameplay of Generations.

Sonic 3 & Knuckles came out at the tail-end of the Genesis' lifespan & was the 4th game with the original 16-bit gameplay, with the only reason why it took 4 years to release a new game being because (& correct me if I'm wrong) they wanted to make something new after working on Sonic games, while Generations itself was the sequel to Sonic Colors.

And by your own argument, they went one game without the Boost gameplay, before making a sequel to Gens in Forces. 

[MH MD]

Just now, Slashy said:

After the success of Sonic 3, SEGA decided to not make a sequel for four years, until Iizuka wanted to make a new one and SEGA realized not having a major Sonic game on the SEGA Saturn was a horrible idea

It was "Sonic Team" in particular who didn't want to make a sequel, cause they feared burnout and wanted to make their own things -sounds familiar right?- , SEGA just attempted to make other sonic games in the meantime like 3D blast and Sonic R and the cancelled X-treme, none of them are main games however, but it's not like SEGA didn't actually try to fill the gap with sonic games, it just mean that the weren't successful.

 

5 minutes ago, Slashy said:

After making Sonic Generations SEGA decided to completely ditch the formula in that game and decided to do something new THEN after that failed decided a failed reboot of the series and ONLY 3 years after that failed did SEGA decide to go back to the gameplay of Generations.

Hindsight and all that, But Generations was the second game in that formula, or arguably the third if we count Colors - i mean...most people do- , people were actually open for a new direction instead of getting the same style over and over again, cause they were tired of getting the same style for 3 times in a row, Forces in some twisted way actually validated those concerns more and made a lot of people not want to see boost return after that cause they were REALLY tired of it - on top of the game itself actually regressing from past boost titles- ,for all we know, them making another boost game straight after Generations wouldn't be much different, because the whole reason they actually tried something new cause the boost formula wasn't feasible development wise

[KHCast]

26 minutes ago, D.H said:

while Generations itself was the sequel to Sonic Colors.

It’s the other way around iirc in that colors was meant to be generations wii. 

 

26 minutes ago, D.H said:

And by your own argument, they went one game without the Boost gameplay, before making a sequel to Gens in Forces. 

A half assed attempted follow up that only further proves segas incompetence, that they weren’t able to decently follow up on a widely popular and praised game like generations, as both modern and classics gameplay got bastardized into what we saw in forces. (Something impressive considering Gens classic wasn’t even anything amazing to start with)

[D.H]

15 minutes ago, KHCast said:

It’s the other way around iirc in that colors was meant to be generations wii. 

 

A half assed attempted follow up that only further proves segas incompetence, that they weren’t able to decently follow up on a widely popular and praised game like generations, as both modern and classics gameplay got bastardized into what we saw in forces. (Something impressive considering Gens classic wasn’t even anything amazing to start with)

Yeah, the quality (or lack thereof) of Sonic Forces doesn't really change my point, tho. They still saw the success of Generations & attempted to milk that by making Sonic Forces. 

Like I said, their incompetence stems mostly from the quality of Sonic games, not whether or not they're willing to make a sequel to something that was a smash hit.