The parodys of Sonic 2

[Cortez]

Despite many die hard fans refusing to believe that their precious Sonic could ever reference Dragon Ball Z or Star Wars its no secret that the Death Egg is a parody of the Death Star and that Super Sonic was originally a parody of a Super Saiyan. Its been a long time since Sonic 2 and since then the franchise seems to have stayed well away from using any witty references to pop culture, but is it something you'd like to see them pick up again or does the thought of it make your stomach turn?

[Diogenes]

Some references might be okay, but I wouldn't want any that end up as integral to the series as Super Sonic did. I mean, it's far too late to remove him now, but it kind of bugs me to have something this important that started as a homage (or perhaps rip-off) of something from an entirely unrelated series.

Then again, poorly-handled pop culture references are the fastest way to turn off the very audience you're trying to attract. This series doesn't exactly have top-quality writing, even on a good day; even a simple reference could end up cringe-worthy.

[Dr. Mechano]

I think Eggman could pull it off better than the rest of the cast, just because he has that whimsically comical vibe about his character.

He's the sort who could easily make bosses/weapons/etc. in the image of well-known popculture references, since his weapons usually walk the thin line between deathly dangerous and comically absurd. His jocular nature really makes him appropriate for this sort of thing, which is why I think the Death Egg worked so well.

Actually, it might be fun to see Eggman kick it up a notch by wearing wacky costumes too, ala Sonic Shuffle. If he's going to go for "thematic" schemes in the same vein as the Death Egg, he might as well give himself his own stylish flair to go along with it. (Excavating some ancient ruins for an ancient evil? Break out the safari clothes! An evil scheme at sea? Dress up like a ship's captain. "Game"-themed evil bases like Circus Park and the like? Bring back the red gameshow host outfit, tophat and all, from Shuffle! It'd be awesomely campy villainy, and totally fitting to Eggman's zany stylistic approach to conquest!)

The Death Egg was one of the earliest indications of Eggman's humorous style, showing he puts just as much effort into presentation as he does into conquest. Even if he loses, he still put on quite the show, and still got to ham it up with his over-the-top attention-hogging, something the doctor absolutely lives to do. Bringing back big parody-themed schemes would be a nice return to his silly yet scheming roots. I suppose the question is- What should he parody, and how would it fit his evil plan? The Death Egg's kind of hard to top in the "lovably ridiculous" department, afterall. Hm.

[Ebby]

SUPER SONIC IS ORIGINAL! WHAT CHU TALKIN' 'BOUT?! Lol, I kid, I kid.

Rather than pop culture references I prefer other Sonic references in Sonic games. For example, I was playing Death Ruins in Shadow the Hedgehog and at one point a GUN soldier stated, "Mr. Yuji Naka is secured!", or something like that...

Anyway, I found that to be pretty clever! Also, there's the cheat codes to Sonic 2

1, 1, 2, 4 (Tails to Miles cheat) is the day Sonic 2 came out without the year

19, 65, 09, 17 (Level select) is Yuji Naka's birthday backwards

1, 9, 9, 2, 1, 1, 2, 4 (Debug) is the exact day Sonic 2 came out backwards

I just found this out a few months ago and I found it to be fascinating!

[Dr. Mechano]

Rather than pop culture references I prefer other Sonic references in Sonic games.

I'm all for this too.

I love Mario's style of self-referential comedy, and think that Sonic has a plethora of nostalgic material that could be used in a similar manner. A continuity nod is never a bad thing, even if it's just to make a quick joke.

[Lux Klonoa]

Um, honestly, I really don't get why you guys keep on calling Super Sonic a parody. Homage, yes...but parody? No, I don't think so. 'Cause...if he was meant to be a parody in the first place, then he would've never returned after S3%K, as the Death Egg had never appeared again other than a mention of it in Sonic Battle. Now that's a parody to me.

Super Sonic was a homage/tribute to DBZ and nothing more...and a tribute that gained popularity on his own, which still continues to grow today.

On topic, hm, I'm liking what I'm hearing about Eggman here... Heh, wouldn't it be amusing if he parodied Iron Man for once?

[Dr. Mechano]

Um, honestly, I really don't get why you guys keep on calling Super Sonic a parody. Homage, yes...but parody?

It's an affectionate parody. A parody doesn't necessarily have to be mocking of the original source material- Just a blatant twist on the exact same concept for humorous effect.

I'm almost certain that Super Sonic was originally intended to be humorous (Note the incredibly goofy fanfare that accompanies it and tell me that it doesn't sound like circus music). But then future writers sorta forgot the joke and played it straight... which is arguably even more hilarious, albeit for all the wrong reasons...

Death Egg had never appeared again other than a mention of it in Sonic Battle.

The Death Egg was in Sonic Battle, not merely mentioned. It's where you fight Eggman and Emerl.

Granted, you don't actually get to see an exterior shot of it as in Sonic 3 and Knuckles, so its blatant resemblance to the Death Star isn't a focal point in Battle, unfortunately...

Edited October 28, 2009 by Dr. Mechano

[Cortez]

Um, honestly, I really don't get why you guys keep on calling Super Sonic a parody. Homage, yes...but parody? No, I don't think so. 'Cause...if he was meant to be a parody in the first place, then he would've never returned after S3%K, as the Death Egg had never appeared again other than a mention of it in Sonic Battle. Now that's a parody to me.

Gaining stupidly spiky hair, flying with his arms tucked behind him, silly music and also TURNING BRIGHT YELLOW. More of a parody than a tribute if you ask me, there was no way we were expected to take Super Sonic seriously in Sonic 2. The fact that it became a recurring feature doesn't prevent it from initially being a parody.

[HunterTSF]

Its been a long time since Sonic 2 and since then the franchise seems to have stayed well away from using any witty references to pop culture, but is it something you'd like to see them pick up again or does the thought of it make your stomach turn?

But they did have a pretty recent pop-culture reference featured in Sonic the Hedgehog - Chao in Space III! Granted, the Planet of the Chaos and Chao in Space movie series have become recurring media staples within the Sonic universe since their first appearance in the Sonic Adventure series, but they did both originate as blatant parodies of popular movies at the time of their debut.

That aside, I'd be fairly indifferent to the inclusion of obvious references to pop culture in the modern game series. If anybody could pull it off however, I'd have to say it would be Eggman. Some more Chao movie spoofs could be rather fun, as well.

Edited October 28, 2009 by HunterTSF

[Cortez]

But they did have a pretty recent pop-culture reference featured in Sonic the Hedgehog - Chao in Space III! Granted, the Planet of the Chaos and Chao in Space movie series have become recurring media staples within the Sonic universe since their first appearance in the Sonic Adventure series, but they did both originate as blatant parodies of popular movies at the time of their debut.

Oh, yes! I completely forgot about those, though I find it amusing it took them 200+ years to make Chao in Space 3 xD.

[redmenace]

I wouldn't mind, I'd even like it, if they aren't major. Like someone said, I'd like Sonic past references as well. We're already had some in Unleashed and I liked them very much.

By the way, was Super Sonic ever confirmed to be based on Dragon Ball Z? I suppose it did, but the seven Chaos Emeralds as well? I don't mind it at all if it was, but I don't want this piece of trivia being another "Sonic's colours were based off the USA flag".

Edited October 28, 2009 by redmenace

[Legendary Emerald]

What the fuck... this conversation has taken place many times on this forum and one thing has always become apparent: Super Sonic is NOT a rip-off of Dragon Ball Z... specifically. The idea of one's hair turning yellow once one has gained an increase of power is present throughout Japanese media since long before Dragon Ball Z, though it is quite possible that everyone's most hated anime might have contributed to Sonic's golden quilled alter-ego.

I'll wait for other people to back this up with examples, because god knows they have done so at least fifty times by now.

Also, no, Super Sonic is not a parody. No kid's first reaction to becoming Super for the first time was "lol, look how ridiculous he looks flying around like Goku." No, most kids like myself and I'm guessing more than half of the people on this site thought "HOLY SHIT THIS IS AWESOME!" It's for this "thrill of the feel", if you'll excuse the term, that fans are still clamoring for more Super in levels.

As for the popculture debate, I cannot stand pop culture. Get it away, ick.

Edited October 28, 2009 by Legendary Emerald

[Cortez]

Considering Naka himself claimed to be a DBZ fan its a bit convient that something almost identical to a major part of that franchise showed up in Sonic. Also, your initial reaction of 'this is awesome' doesn't stop it being a parody (which itself is certainly not a rip-off).

[Kiljoy]

I am ok with Sonic 2's referances. the Super Sonic was an obvious homage, but I was a kid and never knew what dragonball was, so to me Sonic did it first. As far as the Death Egg the in game referance was really just the name, otherwise it was just one level. Now that the games are getting stronger stories, full cutscenes, and now that it has it's own stories and lore I think it would be less appropriate. I think the worst character to do it would be Eggman, he is already a non threatning villain, if he had pop culture weapons it would be even worse.

[Sean]

While Super Sonic is undoubtedly based off of Super Saiyans, I highly doubt that anybody was thinking of DBZ back then because I don't even think it was released in the U.S. until much later.

Yeah, dubbed DBZ didn't air until 1996. Nobody got the reference back then.

[Legendary Emerald]

Considering Naka himself claimed to be a DBZ fan its a bit convient that something almost identical to a major part of that franchise showed up in Sonic. Also, your initial reaction of 'this is awesome' doesn't stop it being a parody (which itself is certainly not a rip-off).

What I'm saying is that it is completely possible that Dragon Ball Z was the DIRECT inspiration for Super Sonic, but that DBZ was only taking it from an even older source, same with the concept of 7 balls/gems/toaster ovens. Thus you cannot say that Super Sonic is a parody or anything of Goku specifically, because the concept had been around for years.

A parody implies humor; there is nothing innately humorous about Super Sonic or the way he flies. If he flew around screaming and shooting kamehameha waves out of his asshole, that'd be parody.

[Diogenes]

What I'm saying is that it is completely possible that Dragon Ball Z was the DIRECT inspiration for Super Sonic, but that DBZ was only taking it from an even older source,

I've heard this a lot, but I've never seen any actual evidence of it. Got any on hand?

[Lux Klonoa]

What the fuck... this conversation has taken place many times on this forum and one thing has always become apparent: Super Sonic is NOT a rip-off of Dragon Ball Z... specifically. The idea of one's hair turning yellow once one has gained an increase of power is present throughout Japanese media since long before Dragon Ball Z, though it is quite possible that everyone's most hated anime might have contributed to Sonic's golden quilled alter-ego.

...wait, what?

I thought DBZ practically invented the golden yellow Super form... O_o;

[Badnik Zero]

I wouldn't have minded a game like Shadow referencing some alien flicks off-hand. The whole thing came off like a terrible b-movie anyways, so it wouldn't have hurt to laugh at itself. But I don't think Super Sonic was meant to be a joke, really. It's more of a tribute than a parody, and calling the Super music circus music is just silly.

[Sean]

and calling the Super music circus music is just silly.

That's pretty much what it is, and it's awesome.

Nakamura makes goofy music like no other composer in the series does. I miss him.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

As for the popculture debate, I cannot stand pop culture. Get it away, ick.

What in the world is wrong with pop culture? It never did any series harm.

[Sean]

Pop culture is frothing with valuable references to use if done wittily; the Death Egg was brilliant and Super Sonic was fairly amusing until he started becoming rather serious business starting with SA1.

It's an understatement for me to want to see Mega Man reference Astro Boy in some way, but then again, the whole series is like one massive tribute to Astro Boy.

[Badnik Zero]

That's pretty much what it is, and it's awesome.

I mean it's a parody in that you see it and go "Oh, I get it!" but it's not meant to make you laugh. I don't see it.

[redmenace]

Considering Naka himself claimed to be a DBZ fan its a bit convient that something almost identical to a major part of that franchise showed up in Sonic. Also, your initial reaction of 'this is awesome' doesn't stop it being a parody (which itself is certainly not a rip-off).

I seem to recall reading somwhere that Naka said that Super Sonic and Super Sayans weren't related though. I might be wrong though. I want clear quotes for this.

The 7 emeralds is one of those that I know, because 7 is regarded as a powerful number. It's used commonly in Japan to something important.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7_(number)#In_the_classical_world

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

I don't see anything wrong with parodies of pop culture, although I'm not sure what would happen if it used too many of them. But they do provide some good reference material.

But the overall writing of this series' plots might not do this much favor, at least at this moment given it's lackluster state. It really make this stuff work against the series in my point of view.