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IGN First - Sonic Frontiers: Combat Gameplay


Sonictrainer
Dreadknux
Message added by Dreadknux,

This topic was good and got turned into Sonic Readies for Fisticuffs in the Latest Sonic Frontiers Footage at some point.

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I suppose the most disappointing thing is that no ground combat was shown, Sonic has a ground punch...but all the combat in the video was in the air.

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6 minutes ago, StaticMania said:

I suppose the most disappointing thing is that no ground combat was shown, Sonic has a ground punch...but all the combat in the video was in the air.

It probably looks like the air combat but on the ground.

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Posted By: Megasis

It looks like the person playing the game is having trouble with the controls. (Like at 4:32.) Not a good sign.

Still not feeling the hype. Looks bland and feels nothing like a Sonic game.

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Various observations:

What the fuck is up with the decision to make Sonic teleport five yards away (to the point the camera almost loses its lunch trying to keep up) before he performs certain aerial attacks? It's extremely disorienting.

The player toggling distant camera shots despite being in a close combat scenario (presumably by accident I guess). It really does feel like the person demoing the game is trying to play the game for the first time (much like the previous footage).

The use of the quick step during combat (as a means of a dodge move) is a great example of how the Boost mechanics do not fit for what they're trying to pull off here. They eject Sonic out of the immediate arena, so the player always has to make their way back to continue fighting. If Sonic could attack from a distance, then sure, whatever; but a lot the fighting shown here is at close quarters.

Voice clips for Sonic during the colossus battles sound much deeper than RCS normally sounds when voicing Sonic. Is that really Roger, or the JP voice actor? Either way, it's jarring.

No surprise whatsoever that the blue auras on the colossus arms are speed boosters by proxy, used to coast Sonic up to the top of the boss. At least they also have red ones to repel him as some sort of challenge, I suppose.

Rings falling out of Sonic once he hits the ground after an attack (instead of when he gets hit immediately) is...actually kind of a good change?

The one thing I could probably say as a positive about the combat shown is that there seems to be enough of a variety of mechanics to allow for combo potential. But the various leaks faulted it as button-mashy and dry back when they were posted years ago, and that still holds true today.

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3 minutes ago, Milo said:

The use of the quick step during combat...

He has actual dodges...he can even do it in the air.

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It looks agonisingly slow and unfun?  You have to use the same attacks over and over and over on each of these enemies, and they rarely show any sign of experiencing an impact, so there's no weight to it; it's sometimes difficult to tell whether an attack did any damage at all.  None of those basic combat encounters should have lasted more than one combo; it's meant to be a speedy game, you run past these enemies and combo them once and then move on.  They're meant to liven up your rush across the world, but instead they're a total pace-killer.  Why would you bother to stop and fight them on your way when you know it's going to take ages?  "Grinding for currency" is not an acceptable answer.

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I guess this showcase was the better one. Hmm.

There were a significant number of times where I was saying to myself, "Oh that's cool" or "Hey, that's neat" thankfully.

I like that the circular line creation thing can be used on enemies and isn't just for puzzles. I especially think it's cool that you can draw a circle around a multiple number of them at once and launch them.

The way it's used in the boss fight is neat as well.

A lot of his moves certainly look cool, especially the one where he shoots blades from his feet or whatever. However, the thing hindering this the most is how underwhelming the animations are. Honestly, a lot of this would look like it would flow better if Sonic himself just didn't look so stiff. Apparently the Forces model just can't do animation.

I don't know if I can properly speak on how spongey the regular enemies are. One reason is because I don't know if there's a level up system or if he can get stronger in anyway. Also, another detriment to that is the fact that whoever's playing this does not seem to be doing that good a job. So, I don't know if there's a move they could be doing to make the process quicker.

Sonic himself moves quickly but that doesn't mean the flow of combat won't still feel slow. 

I will also say that this showcase makes the other one feel even more useless. If there was no achievable objective to the last video aside from running back and forth then I don't know why it was shown off that way.

They're notoriously bad at marketing so it actually wouldn't surprise me if what this is flowed better than what we're seeing at the moment but I'm not banking on it right now.

I still need to see what the actual gameplay loop and narrative construction amounts to. There is a very real chance that if that is done well, a story oriented guy like me would find himself satisfied on a reasonable level.

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8 minutes ago, Salamander said:

None of those basic combat encounters should have lasted more than one combo; 

What gave me the tiniest glimmer of hope was after taking nearly 40 seconds to kill the first enemy, they did a run back of the same enemy showing it being near insta-killed. But that same hope was kinda dashed when they showed the same attack not speeding up the second enemy much... if they at least looked fun to dodge it wouldn't be so bad but they don't at all.

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Just watched this footage and I actually liked it. Way better than the exploration trailer. Sonic's got some variety to his moveset and different ways to attack different enemies. Especially when he was fighting that giant robot at the end, it seemed like an engaging, fun fight. 

It's got problems though. Sonic's animations are still weak AF, and that repetitive "hit" sounds effect just needs to stop. The worst part though is all related to the fact that Sonic still looks like controls like he's in boost games. There's absolutely no synergy whatsoever between Sonic's platforming/exploration gameplay and the combat. 

SEGA has made a terrible, terrible mistake to showcase every individual part of the game as though they're entirely separate beasts. We should be watching the combat, exploration, puzzles and platforming in decent vertical slice trailer. Enemies should be present in the platforming areas, and Sonic's platforming movements and controls should blend with the combat controls. The adherence to the boost formular in this game is a fundamental problem. It's absolutely ruining it. That's the thing that SEGA needed to change but they're digging their heels in instead. 

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It doesn’t look terrible, even fine at points, but it’s not exactly pushing me to change my overall feelings on the game, when fundamentally, I’m not a fan of how combat will be one of this games big selling factors 

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So yeah, like others said, the basic bots seem to be damage sponges. Just seeing that didn’t sit well for me. The saving grace however is that for the most part I could just walk around and avoid them if I want instead of being confined and forced to fight them, so that’s a plus that actually makes this tolerable.

Also, some of the moves look scripted to the degree that it looks like the game does it for you. May not actually be the case upon playing it, but the power moves where Sonic dashes three times in the air before actually hitting the enemy made me think…why not just one dash? The extra animations to that just looked unnecessary.

Overall, not bad…but not exactly great. Judging from this, seeing how they just made a big map and dropped Sonic with his Boost-era mechanics in it, they could have actually done a hell of a lot more and much better than this. I’d suggest giving Platinum games a call to do a better job, because this could be hella more interesting than what we saw. This game was already supposed to be more ambitious than previous titles, but they still look like they’re playing too safe for their own good.


Still mildly optimistic tho.

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  • The title was changed to IGN First - Sonic Frontiers: Combat Gameplay

I’d actually like Sonic to be a character action game, but this isn’t how I expected them to implement it.

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Despite the small number of enemies on display, I am actually blown away by the creativity that came from it.

 

The Orb bot constantly reshuffling itself to put as much electrified armor between itself and Sonic is novel and interesting. It creates two ways to fight it right off the bat (either getting behind it armor faster than it can shuffle, or pounding away until it can no longer defend itself) and hearkens back to an old Eggman design that used a similar tactic to protect itself.

 

The dome blade bot also showed two attack patterns. Either by staying at a distance and baiting out an attack to make it vulnerable, or using the spin cycle to open it up manually. I would lose my $hit if Sonic could ride the blade frisbee and return-to-sender for massive damage. That's what I want to see him do.

Here's hoping there are 1 or 2 more ways to fight these guys on top of that.

The large boss is the best showcase, because it lets Sonic do what he is uniquely capable of. Using speed and power to move up and down and all around. If they can use that same mindset to apply to some of the smaller baddies in the game, they could be cooking with fire.

 

 

 

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Personally, I think that this trailer was a bit better than the first trailer we got and I do think that Sonic's combat moves are pretty impressive, especially with his air strike moves. I'm still a bit concerned about the fact that Sonic is moving slower here and some of the combat skills were a bit clunky. But, I guess we'll start seeing more from this game later on this month.

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Posted By: followmyrainbow

Don’t understand all the negativity for Frontiers. While nothing is mind-blowing so far, it still looks fun and I love that they’re trying new things. This combat looks a lot more dynamic instead of just spamming homing attacks. Sick of y’all saying “doesn’t feel like a Sonic game” when you’ve whinged about every 3D Sonic game in existence and if they kept it exactly the same y’all would hate that too 😂

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It’s really funny to me that, for all the talk of Sonic Team trying to ‘re-imagine’ Sonic whilst taking inspiration from past hits, the one title it really feels like the studio is drawing from is Sonic Boom: Rise of Lyric (only, an open world Sonic Boom: Rise of Lyric). The one game and premise that actually nobody wanted.

I don’t believe combat is really part of the Sonic franchise DNA, so I’m confused as to why Sonic Team seems to think this is an area worth exploring in Frontiers. Not that the moves and fights don’t look interesting, but… you know, I can play any of the Jak & Daxter games for the hit that Frontiers seems to be offering here. I don’t really need to see it in a Sonic game.

Anything more than a few bops to take out an enemy, and you’ve immediately lost me. The fights all seem too time-consuming and complicated to really be worth engaging in, especially when dealing with those little minion guys (why are those guys so strong!?).

  • What is the damage/impact incentive to use these flashy attack moves? It doesn’t look like they do much more damage than a one-two punch, seems like a waste of time?
  • Why does Sonic dart out six miles just to do some weird kick blast move?
  • Why does that kick blast move not completely knacker these enemies?
  • That projectile move looks cool the first time I saw it, but why does Sonic spend so much time doing it? It’s like, several seconds longer an animation than it should be.

I’m also really not feeling the enemy design. I thought, with Colours, Generations and Lost World, we were starting to get somewhere with using actual creative and personality-fuelled Badniks and robot monsters, but Forces was a weird course correction in the other direction and this has just gone way off the page. It doesn’t excite or interest me whatsoever (although I did find it cute that the little minion enemies run around with their arms up just like Sonic, that was a nice touch).

All in all, based on the two videos we’ve seen this week alone, this is just starting to look like a (really cool) mod for Phantasy Star Online 2 NGS, rather than a Sonic game. They love their damage sponges in that game. Just need some numbers to pop out of an enemy’s head when Sonic connects an attack.

I dunno. For whatever type of game Sonic Frontiers is trying to be, this combat stuff looks to be fine enough. But personally, it just feels like more proof that this isn’t going to be the Sonic game I’ve been waiting for. Will have to see how things pan out with upgrade tree details and how the stages/worlds all connect with one another, but conceptually I think this is what it is and I’m just going to have to accept that.

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The most interesting thing here is the Spin Cycle move by virtue of it having multiple uses beyond combat, and I think that's where my big issue is, and I've had a lot of trouble trying to articulate the problem.

It's less about a lack of momentum (that's still an issue but we're too far gone from that) and moreso that it feels like combat and exploration are two separate games, and that's an issue Sonic almost never has. The means to attack an enemy were always ways to maneuver around the world or gain speed.

Jumping, dashing, boosting, rolling, all of these abilities served the purpose of both traversal and combat seamlessly which is why even the Modern Sonic games had a sense of fluidity. Aside from the homing attack and spin cycle, none of Sonic's punches, kicks or any of that will help him move around the big dang open world he's in.

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1 hour ago, Indigo Rush said:

The most interesting thing here is the Spin Cycle move by virtue of it having multiple uses beyond combat, and I think that's where my big issue is, and I've had a lot of trouble trying to articulate the problem.

It's less about a lack of momentum (that's still an issue but we're too far gone from that) and moreso that it feels like combat and exploration are two separate games, and that's an issue Sonic almost never has. The means to attack an enemy were always ways to maneuver around the world or gain speed.

Jumping, dashing, boosting, rolling, all of these abilities served the purpose of both traversal and combat seamlessly which is why even the Modern Sonic games had a sense of fluidity. Aside from the homing attack and spin cycle, none of Sonic's punches, kicks or any of that will help him move around the big dang open world he's in.

Uh yes it had. It was called Sonic Unleashed. 

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31 minutes ago, Zoomzeta said:

Uh yes it had. It was called Sonic Unleashed. 

?

The Day levels in Sonic Unleashed (i.e. Modern Sonic, as I said) uses moves and mechanics that both work for movement and combat. The Jump, Slide, Boost, Homing Attack and Stomp all have dual uses. 

If it's the Werehog you're referring to, that's a whole other definition of "two separate games." 

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I honestly didn't hate what we saw, but it does look really repetitive. I think the main issue with both the exploration and combat showcases, at least for me, has been they're 7/6 minutes each and hyperfocused on just one of those elements. They don't really give you a sense of how you, the player with the final product, is actually meant to experience it yet so it just has this uneven tech demo feel. I don't know how much it'd help, but I would have liked to see the HUD and how everything interacts with each other, what influences what you can do at a given time, and so on. Like is there a meter/collectible that influences how far Sonic can go with that paraloop ability? Are those special attacks tied to anything? What does what? I know there's more coming and I don't really dislike the showcases but the presentation is so confusing to see when they left hanging for an entire year to even know what this game is supposed to play like. I would also prefer if everything was just connected because, again, it doesn't represent how we will experience it. Or maybe I'm giving them way too much credit, who knows?

I will say I thought that flurry kick where Sonic shoots out blades of wind was neat, something he'd probably actually have. I'm not really a fan of those moments where the action just stops for Sonic to do some special move like darting up and zigzagging his way back to the enemy. It looks cool, sure, but I'm not sure for this type of game it's really effective. Just looks pace-breaking and I'm not sure if you even have input over it.

 

It is nice having a Sonic game that makes me curious for a change, even if I'm likely not buying it when it comes out anyway. Hasn't really happened seriously since Lost World (a game I don't care for, but it was different after like three boost games) when we didn't really know what to expect from it versus something like Forces that tried to go back to what Generations did but considerably worse. Just wish they put a better foot forward.

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This game is going to suck. And I say that as someone who really really really want it to be good. But no, it's not going to be good. There is absolutely nothing that indicates that it's going to be good. Instead, everything indicates that it's going to suck. The sheer ambition of Sonic Team of taking on a Breath of the Wild style gameplay, a gameplay that is both ambitous by it's very nature and also ambitious in the sense that Sonic Team has no experience creating a game even remotely similar to that before, coupled with Sonic Teams history of failure at trying new gameplay styles with the Sonic series makes warning bells go off right there. They failed at trying to replicate God of War, they failed at trying to replicate Mario Galaxy, and hell most recently they even failed at trying to replicate their own Sonic Colors and Generations.

And then we get to see the actual gameplay. And it looks incredibly boring and tedious. I get the impression that the game consists mostly of fighting an enemy in a way that is repetative and takes too long and then  running in a vast but empty environment to the next enemy and fighting that enemy in a way that is repetative and takes too long.

It sucks trying to be excited over a new main installment of the video game series you love the most when knowing with almost 100% certainty that once the game actually comes out you're going to have your fears confimred that its bad and boring.

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I think folks’ expectations are too high, which isn’t to say that’s bad or wrong—those expectations were set by LoZ: Breath of the Wild, so of course that’s affecting people’s thoughts of Frontiers when they’ve already seen it before and saw it better done there (and even BOTW has its flaws, but it’s so good and immersive you don’t exactly care).

However, I’m going against the tide here—this game won’t suck, provided everything goes moderately well. Ideally, it surprises us and becomes the best Sonic game we’ve been wanting for years. However, having experienced the full rise and fall of this franchise, at best I can say it’ll be better than Forces—which is a good thing in itself.

The only worst case scenario I see is them being lazy and rushing the game out the door, essentially repeating Sonic 06 all over again. But given that the games since then have been average at best, I don’t see that happening unless things go severely wrong somewhere down the line.

I’d say people will find the game average, although the reviews are very likely to bash the game due in no part because it’s a pastime that people still haven’t given up on and the game itself not fully helping its case following the trend of BOTW. This game is the most ambitious looking, yet ironically inoffensive entry we’ve had unless there’s more under the hood that they’re not showing.

All I’m saying is, this motherfucker got #3 on YouTube and better do something to deliver on that. I would never have imagined that accomplishment well over ten years ago after everything he’s put out.

Edit: Also, I’m buying the game regardless so I can study it more in-depth. I’ve bought worse purchases than what I’ve seen in the trailer (I’ve bought and played Sonic 06, so this really ain’t shit to me), so this isn’t gonna be that big a waste to me if it’s average.

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They really shouldn’t have released just these two gameplay videos focusing on two completely different gameplay styles. Why SEGA couldn’t have just released a normal ass gameplay trailer with a montage, cool music and story is beyond me. There will be more shown eventually of course but this wasn’t a great way to show off the first ever gameplay footage of Sonic Frontiers!! 

As for this combat footage, it’s better than the open world stuff but something about it doesn’t look right. Maybe it’s the fact Sonic jitters and stutters all over the place looking janky af, or that the attacks while cool looking are not super speedy. Even the new circling enemy move looks slow. 

I wish Sonic could have smoother animations with lots of squash n’ stretch. There’s no excuse now, especially with games like Ratchet & Clank around. 

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Even if the game turns out to be decent, I think we can all say decisively that it's not the game to start returning Sonic to being an A-list video game franchise. There is just no way that the difference between what we've just seen in trailer and what the finished game will be like will be large enough for that to be the case. That alone is sad enough. If Sonic is ever going to start climbing his way back to the Mount Olympus of the video game medium in terms of popularity and acclaim, that climb hasn't even begun yet.

Of course I realize that most us don't even expect for Sonic to ever return to being considered an A-list franchise by critics and games. We've become so used to Sonic being mediocre at best with mediocre at best sales that we can hardly even imagine anything else. But let us remind ourselves; Sonic is one of the most well known gaming IP's in the world. The franchise belongs to that group of maybe 10 different franchises that even people who never touch video games knows about. Like, we're talking, even your mom (and mine!) knows about them, at least fleetingly. "Sonic? Oh yes, that blue hedgehog thingy that runs fast". That kind of recognizability is something most video game developers would kill for in order for their franchises to acchieve. Sonic used to be an A-list franchise, and the fact that Mario remains such shows that it is possible for platform games to belong to that crowd even in todays day and age when the platform genre as a whole isn't very popular.

Of course, ONE individual game is not going to bring Sonic back to that place, but a string of super acclaimed installments over a number of years probably could. And that's the thing about Frontiers; even if it turns out decent, there is just no way from what we've seen that it's going to turn out to be anything above that. At best reviewers will say "Eh, it's better than a lot of other Sonic games". But it's not the game that will initiate Sonic's climb back to Mount Olympus to join Mario, Pikachu, Link, Master Chief, and all those gangsters from GTA.

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