Sonic Frontiers Leaks & Spoilers Thread - PLEASE READ OP

[juiceDpunk983]

Was it ever mentioned anywhere how Orbot looked different in Unleashed, was it a prototype version? I always wondered about that.

[StaticMania]

8 minutes ago, juiceDpunk983 said:

Was it ever mentioned anywhere how Orbot looked different in Unleashed, was it a prototype version? I always wondered about that.

Why are you asking that here?

The games aren't gonna mention something as simple as a color change as if it actually matters.

He's just color coded to match the addition of Cubot, he's not even physically different.

[Zoomzeta]

21 minutes ago, juiceDpunk983 said:

Was it ever mentioned anywhere how Orbot looked different in Unleashed, was it a prototype version? I always wondered about that.

No, but it's kind of the general assumption. 

[Tailikku]

what strikes me regarding the Ancients is just how much they ended up influencing the series, not just because the Angel Island group mutated into the Chao (and one mutating into Chaos) and the Emeralds being drawn to the ME, but just how much their single visit with the Emeralds and settlement created a "For Want of Nail" effect.

From my understanding, the Ancients' arrival on the Island also seemed to act as a signal for the Babylonians to arrive on Mobius the Earth, allowing for close encounters by humans with them and their prototype Extreme Gear to inspire the 1001 Arabian Nights, with the Arcs of the Cosmos being a deadringer for the Seven World Rings in Hand. The AI group of Ancients being drawn to the ME also ended up affecting the planetary cycles, allowing for the millenia of reawakenings of "Iblis Bowser" (remember that nickname?) and Chip, suggesting that their arrival was very early on in Earth's history, with the ME being almost primordial in nature, perhaps even acting as a sort of mediator between the two Gaias (and in my own fanfic crossover-y way, could have also led into the events of Quintet's SNES trilogy of Soul Blazer, Illusion of Gaia, and Terranigma, also having the appearances of Light and Dark Gaias). The End possibly did something similar to the Ancients in the past in the creation of the Black Arms to act as a way to take the Emeralds and destroy them. I also have reason to believe that at some point in ancient history, explorers from Spagonia took notes on the Starfall Islands, taking notice of the Titans, and being inspired by them to write down the legends of King Arthur and the Knights of the Round Table, making a special note of Knight and taking influence from its sword and aegis and noting how it looks like a mounted rider.

Insert Nocturne clan/Emerl backstory here, Insert SA1 backstory here, Insert Shadow's backstory here. Something else also tells me that the Ancients could be something similar to the Drakon Empire from StC, albiet on a more benevolent side, seeing as the Emeralds also have ties to both South Island and Westside Island. I mean, you need only look at Aquatic Ruin Zone and Labyrinth Zone to see what are likely ruins set up by the Ancients. Maybe even more with the Little Planet's own Tidal Tempest and the Time Stones and Flicky's Island with the Rusty Ruins Zone (which is stated in the manual to be the remains of an Atlantiean outpost). I mean, StC outright confirmed the influence of the Drakons in the comic through the sentinel that Sonic meets and that one Prosecutor became the comic's version of Chaos (now known as Buddy in StC Online).

I can only applaud Ian Flynn for incorporating the extraterrestrial origins of the Emeralds, pulling from his own work for Archie. It just makes me wonder if there are other forms of life other than the Wisps and the now extinct Black Arms. Perhaps if that one author on Twitter gives up, then Sega could reincorporate the races from the Twilight Cage and give them some connection to the Ancients and The End. Perhaps the Voxai took influence from the Ancients' abilities to mentally interface with technology. Perhaps the Zoah took from their advanced tech on Titan-making when setting up their military state, or perhaps the ancient tech influencing the Kron, or their merging influencing the Nrrgal. Perhaps even Arrgus has some connection with The End or the Ancients when it created the Twilight Cage.

Who knows. Only Sega and Ian Flynn do.

[Shaddy Zaphod]

13 minutes ago, Tailikku said:

Perhaps if that one author on Twitter gives up, then Sega could reincorporate the races from the Twilight Cage and give them some connection to the Ancients and The End. Perhaps the Voxai took influence from the Ancients' abilities to mentally interface with technology. Perhaps the Zoah took from their advanced tech on Titan-making when setting up their military state, or perhaps the ancient tech influencing the Kron, or their merging influencing the Nrrgal. Perhaps even Arrgus has some connection with The End or the Ancients when it created the Twilight Cage.

Who knows. Only Sega and Ian Flynn do.

I mean, if we're being objective, there shouldn't be any qualms about using Chronicles shit in general (as Penders's initial lawsuit about it was thrown out twice), but there should be even less trouble with the alien races, as they aren't based off anything from the comics in the first place. Not the Xorda, not the Bem.

[The Deleter]

4 hours ago, Indigo Rush said:

Yeah, that is the implication. "Eons of radiation" apparently turns intelligent life into adorable water fairy babies.

It's... a stretch, but far from the weirdest idea the series has proposed. As far as plot twists go (not really a plot twist so much as a lore twist, but anyway), I think it adds more than takes away, personally. 

That wouldn't make any sense though. The leftover ancients carried the emeralds to angel island, devolved into chao "from eons of radiation", then chaos himself evolves back into an ancient form because of coming into contact with that same radiation? On top of contradicting the "died out within a generation" statement from the Egg memos.

If they wanted to make it an origin for the Chao specifically they'd probably be a lot more explicit about that, considering how easy it is to namedrop them.

[juiceDpunk983]

1 hour ago, StaticMania said:

Why are you asking that here?

Well, considering this game references that game, It got me thinking about it. Plus, Orbot was getting talked about on the previous page so I asked. I like the Sonic lore, even the small stuff like Eggman and the stages of how he creates his robots. Might be just a simple colour change yeah but it might give us bits of interesting info on how he gets a final design for a robot.

[Indigo Rush]

18 minutes ago, The Deleter said:

That wouldn't make any sense though. The leftover ancients carried the emeralds to angel island, devolved into chao "from eons of radiation", then chaos himself evolves back into an ancient form because of coming into contact with that same radiation? On top of contradicting the "died out within a generation" statement from the Egg memos.

Well, not sure. Does it say the radiation is from the Chaos Emeralds, the Master Emerald or the general cosmic environment from being on a different planet? It'd be weird if a species that is so intimately connected with the Emeralds were suddenly sensitive to it. 

It's also not said that a Chao became Chaos through radiation, but by mutation through using the Emeralds, as I understand it anyway. Unless that whole origin story was changed.

Also, to the second point, that isn't a contradiction. The Ancients that chose or were forced to stay on the Starfall Islands after everything went down died in a generation. The ones that escaped to Angel Island with the Emeralds were the ones that survived long enough to evolve into Chao. 

[StaticMania]

31 minutes ago, juiceDpunk983 said:

I like the Sonic lore...

Him changing color isn't a lore thing, it's not even a story thing...since no one even mentions it.

A small explanation for why he even changed at all would be flavor text at best even if there was an "in-universe" reason for it.

---

But again, the in-universe reason would be the same as the design development reason...he became color coded to match Cubot, that's not interesting enough on its own to be acknowledged, but it's something.

I like the little things that help us learn about stuff in the Sonic World too...but not everything needs to be explained in the story, some of the fun of this stuff is the headcanon. You can't really theorize about stuff like this if the story just tells you everything.

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

55 minutes ago, juiceDpunk983 said:

Well, considering this game references that game, It got me thinking about it. Plus, Orbot was getting talked about on the previous page so I asked. I like the Sonic lore, even the small stuff like Eggman and the stages of how he creates his robots. Might be just a simple colour change yeah but it might give us bits of interesting info on how he gets a final design for a robot.

The robot in Unleashed is a different robot from Orbot.

[Whatever the WhoCares]

5 hours ago, Indigo Rush said:

Yeah, that is the implication. "Eons of radiation" apparently turns intelligent life into adorable water fairy babies.

It's... a stretch, but far from the weirdest idea the series has proposed. As far as plot twists go (not really a plot twist so much as a lore twist, but anyway), I think it adds more than takes away, personally. 

Now, what I want to see explored a little more is the... The End. Whatever it is. From what we know from it's monologue against Sonic, it's a being that lived since "time immemorial," and talks about bringing order to chaos and creation, which means neutralizing it into nothing.  I have to wonder if they (Sonic Team, Iizuka, Flynn, whoever) have thought beyond what we've seen in Frontiers and if there's more of these beings out in the universe with the same purpose. I also wonder why it felt the need to track down the Ancients specifically; do you think it was after the Chaos Emeralds to get rid of them since they embody chaos, or was it seeking the Emeralds' power to do more damage?

The evolution from Ancients to Chao reminds me of H. G. Wells’ The Time Machine, where humans have split off into two different species, one of them being a lightly-built, simple minded race that doesn’t seem terribly capable of self-sufficiency. Obviously there are religious parallels between the Chao and cherubs, so to add a sci-fi parallel seems oddly appropriate. It just works. 

[Austroid]

Anyone else get secondhand embarrassment when Sage was humming her little song and showing recycled foota-- I mean flashbacks to her protecting Eggman?

That was R O U G H 

[Whatever the WhoCares]

1 hour ago, Austroid said:

Anyone else get secondhand embarrassment when Sage was humming her little song and showing recycled foota-- I mean flashbacks to her protecting Eggman?

That was R O U G H 

Definitely unearned and awkward. But it didn’t have lyrics, so it wasn’t quite cringeworthy. 

[Austroid]

41 minutes ago, Whatever the WhoCares said:

Definitely unearned and awkward. But it didn’t have lyrics, so it wasn’t quite cringeworthy. 

Very true. Something was lost in translation, I think.

[Blue Blood]

2 hours ago, Whatever the WhoCares said:

Definitely unearned and awkward. But it didn’t have lyrics, so it wasn’t quite cringeworthy. 

Are you kidding? The child singing lalalalala throughout made it worse than it would have been if it was silent. 

[Indigo Rush]

The lyrics from what I can tell are 

La la la la la lalalala lala la la

[A super No.1 washedupgamer]

23 minutes ago, Indigo Rush said:

The lyrics from what I can tell are 

La la la la la lalalala lala la la

People are so gonna meme this. Just give it time.

[Sonicka]

Cringeworthy? Nah it was fine. There's been much worse than this in older titles. Sage is just embracing/acknowledging her feelings, it's a sweet moment if you ask me. The out of tune child melody if anything highlights this moreso. 

That being said, I think they probably could have used better flashbacks or different cutaways that we hadn't seen before to highlight Eggman's importance to her, otherwise the only verbal tells are the Eggmemo's which are optional collectables alongside a couple of visual clues.

[Iko]

4 hours ago, Austroid said:

Anyone else get secondhand embarrassment when Sage was humming her little song and showing recycled foota-- I mean flashbacks to her protecting Eggman?

That was R O U G H 

Not embarrassed, but I admit it made me laugh a bit... I thought it was kinda cute but in a funny way, it was unfitting with what the scene was trying to express (aka a deep and emotional moment).

[Indigo Rush]

Yeah, it's a sweet moment... that went on a bit longer than it needed to, and the little girl singing music playing over scenes of Sage and Eggman standing around that practically happened minutes ago pushed it closer towards a parody than a sincere moment. It should have stopped right after Sage started crying. That would have earned a win, in my opinion. 

Spoiler

The inevitable Sonic Frontiers in X minutes will definitely riff this part and I am absolutely looking forward to it 

 

[StaticMania]

19 minutes ago, Indigo Rush said:

It should have stopped right after Sage started crying.

No...I really relate to all the times Sage and Eggman were just standing around talking.

I felt that.

[Whatever the WhoCares]

2 hours ago, Blue Blood said:

Are you kidding? The child singing lalalalala throughout made it worse than it would have been if it was silent. 

That’s why I said it would’ve been even worse if it had lyrics.

[Zoomzeta]

21 hours ago, Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon said:

The robot in Unleashed is a different robot from Orbot.

At best, it was a prototype that preceded Orbot. 

[Blue Blood]

3 hours ago, StaticMania said:

No...I really relate to all the times Sage and Eggman were just standing around talking.

I felt that.

 

3 hours ago, Indigo Rush said:

Yeah, it's a sweet moment... that went on a bit longer than it needed to, and the little girl singing music playing over scenes of Sage and Eggman standing around that practically happened minutes ago pushed it closer towards a parody than a sincere moment. It should have stopped right after Sage started crying. That would have earned a win, in my opinion. 

  Hide contents

The inevitable Sonic Frontiers in X minutes will definitely riff this part and I am absolutely looking forward to it 

 

3 hours ago, Sonicka said:

Cringeworthy? Nah it was fine. There's been much worse than this in older titles. Sage is just embracing/acknowledging her feelings, it's a sweet moment if you ask me. The out of tune child melody if anything highlights this moreso. 

That being said, I think they probably could have used better flashbacks or different cutaways that we hadn't seen before to highlight Eggman's importance to her, otherwise the only verbal tells are the Eggmemo's which are optional collectables alongside a couple of visual clues.

We didn't get to see enough of Eggman and Sage interacting in Frontiers for it to have any real weight to it. Frontiers' is Sage's debut, and her big emotional moment comes around halfway into the game. There's one scene with Sage specifically protecting Eggman from an assault, but that's the limit. Everything else is just the two of them talking like master and minion. Even in the Egg Memos it's jarring to see Eggman one a parental relationship with Sage. It's a story beat that could have been interesting, but it needed more time for the audience to get used to it and for some actual character development. 

What we got just didn't work. 

[Shaddy Zaphod]

I'll tell you what I think: some or all of the Egg memos should have been a part of Rhea island. Between each tower, you free Eggman from cyberspace and you get some kind of pre-recorded hologram for all the most important and Sage-related logs.

It wouldn't be great at making his relationship with Sage more fleshed-out, but it would at least have made it more obvious and textual than something you have to read between the lines for and then also has a ham-fisted sad scene. I find myself wondering if something like that had maybe been the plan before Rhea's normal gameplay had to be axed.