Sonic Frontiers Leaks & Spoilers Thread - PLEASE READ OP

[ZinogreVolt]

Looking through old leaks for this game, only left wondering whatever happened to this? This is from 2021:

I guess this part was back when they hadn't fully settled on some aspects of the open world. But I don't think anything in the game really fits the bill for the 'gigantic tree robot thing' described here. Especially strange because it was a scrapped Super Sonic boss and not an overworld encounter, you think they'd have just tried to repurpose that.

[The Deleter]

2 minutes ago, ZinogreVolt said:

Looking through old leaks for this game, only left wondering whatever happened to this? This is from 2021:

I guess this part was back when they hadn't fully settled on some aspects of the open world. But I don't think anything in the game really fits the bill for the 'gigantic tree robot thing' described here. Especially strange because it was a scrapped Super Sonic boss and not an overworld encounter, you think they'd have just tried to repurpose that.

It's likely the same boss; Giganto in the "full" version of Kronos can be found in the same forest Supreme is located at, per Death on Twitter:

 

[Kuzu]

7 hours ago, Indigo Rush said:

Yeah, it's a sweet moment... that went on a bit longer than it needed to, and the little girl singing music playing over scenes of Sage and Eggman standing around that practically happened minutes ago pushed it closer towards a parody than a sincere moment. It should have stopped right after Sage started crying. That would have earned a win, in my opinion. 

  Reveal hidden contents

The inevitable Sonic Frontiers in X minutes will definitely riff this part and I am absolutely looking forward to it 

I loved the Sage and Eggman dynamic, but that moment deserves to be riffed completely.

They had to oversell it.

[Blue Blood]

16 hours ago, ZinogreVolt said:

Looking through old leaks for this game, only left wondering whatever happened to this? This is from 2021:

I guess this part was back when they hadn't fully settled on some aspects of the open world. But I don't think anything in the game really fits the bill for the 'gigantic tree robot thing' described here. Especially strange because it was a scrapped Super Sonic boss and not an overworld encounter, you think they'd have just tried to repurpose that.

Said leak was posted in early January 2021. The date that they played the game, and the build itself even moreso, could be from much further back. The leaks like this one all came from focus tests, the whole point of which is to get feedback on loose ideas and WIPs. Legit leaks from around the same time also said that Infinite's theme was used for the "tree" boss fight, the "ghost girl" refreshed your ring count in Super fights, overworld bosses granted orbs instead of gears, orbs granted access to cyberspace and cyberspace rewarded you with Emeralds is you did well enough. 

The idea of having to go Super to clear some sort of fog covering an inaccessible area of the map sounds quite cool. I dislike the way that the Kronos, Ares and Ouranos boss areas are arbitrarily blocked off in the final game, even after you've beaten them (you can still get to the Chaos one, and technically the Kronos arena is just Rhea).

Lots of things change over the course of development. It's quite fortunate that we get a bit of insight to the development process from all the leaks, because I don't think we'll be seeing any early builds being leaked. 

[Iko]

17 minutes ago, Blue Blood said:

I dislike the way that the Kronos, Ares and Ouranos boss areas are arbitrarily blocked off in the final game, even after you've beaten them (you can still get to the Chaos one, and technically the Kronos arena is just Rhea).

Isn't Ares boss area open at any moment as long as you find a way to climb the canyon? I reached it early before the quest for the boss was complete, and climbed the tower when there was nothing to do there yet...

I agree with Chronos and Ouranos though (excluding the fact that Chronos is Rhea)

[Blue Blood]

16 minutes ago, Iko said:

Isn't Ares boss area open at any moment as long as you find a way to climb the canyon? I reached it early before the quest for the boss was complete, and climbed the tower when there was nothing to do there yet...

I agree with Chronos and Ouranos though (excluding the fact that Chronos is Rhea)

The Ares arena is supposed to be off-limits. Its purely luck that you can actually get in there.

[Shaddy Zaphod]

I don't think there's necessarily anything wrong with not letting a player into a boss arena when they're not actively fighting the boss, just with the fact that the arenas are diegetic parts of the game's world and throwing a big wall in their face telling them "no" is really immersion-breaking.

I guess that's reason #71 that Rhea should have actually had its geometry split off from Kronos entirely (no I will not shut up about this)

[Shaddy Zaphod]

I just had a thought. The End and The Supreme should have been switched.

Think of it this way: you get the last emerald on Ouranos, The End attacks, Sage finally gets full control of a titan after failing to do so for the rest of the game. You do a (hopefully less frustrating) bullethell minigame, and she has her little sacrifice moment in stopping the boss. It's only after that that The End fully possesses the supreme, wherein you finally do the big Super Sonic final boss, maybe still in space or something. The problem of The Supreme dying really quickly at your current level would still be there, but I think it would save face for a lot of it.

Only issue is the music wouldn't fit as much. The Final Boss track is definitely more of a triumphant finale track than I'm Here is.

[StellarBlur]

People have discussed the game to death already, but I've reading many opinions online and thinking about it and there's a reason why Sonic Frontiers is special. The whole game is built on a basis of respect for the Sonic franchise and aiming to the stars. People who are not Sonic fans won't get it. Heck, most Sonic fans probably didn't pick up the depth at which the game goes to build its thematic. I'm not the best person with at essay writing  so someone can probably explain it better than me but I'll do my best in the ten minutes I'm dedicating to this haha.

Take a look at the story of the game. The central mystery of the game is about the Starfall Islands but the story isn't actually about that, it's about how the different characters learn from the Ancients so they can come to terms with their past, embrace it and decide to move forward. Every character you save throughout the game goes through that process. I believe it's meant to mimic the Sonic series as a whole. Sonic Frontiers acknowledges that the franchise is a mess, but embraces it and shows respect to even the most derided entries. Every game got its due in this game (well except 06 and gens because they're not cannon lol). Sonic as a character is someone who will never let a defeat get him down and that's also true for the Sonic series... and, by extension, Sonic Team. SAGE throughout the entire game questions Sonic about his motives, telling him he can't go on. She represents the criticism the series has gotten throughout the decades. Eventually, she's impressed by Sonic (in the same way this game was meant to impress the Sonic series detractor) and she decides to help him.

Now, let's talk about the final boss. It's a weird one right? The End. What is it ? I don't think it's a coincidence it's merely called The End. It's not a thing. It's a concept ! Sonic literally fights the concept of ending and he defeats it and he gets to go on. It's about the Sonic series fighting to keep going no matter what. It's not to say the Sonic series will never end... The end does say that he can defeat that incarnation of it but it always come back... it will always be a threat, but Sonic will fight it again. The whole thing is about the series and Sonic Team's struggle with it !

Finally, we come to the music of the game. The true credits song One Way Dreams was revealed (by Ohtani in an interview) to be a message from Sonic Team. It talks about how they fall, about how people laugh at them and the series... and yet, they'll always come and back and try again. You may think it's all platitudes but that feeling, that message, it's present throughout the whole game. This makes One Way Dreams an incredibly special song for me.  Even I'm Here, pre-release, we discussed what it meant in regards to the game's story... but the song isn't about the game, the lyrics are about the series. T

It's weird how the game to end the so called "meta era" is the most meta of them all. It truly embraces the series and stops being ashamed of it like the past few games have been. It's clumsily executed to be sure and I wish they had managed to complete their vision for the game, adding the necessary polish it definitely needed, but this whole thematic still makes the game incredibly special. So yes, Frontiers is mess in a lot of ways... a fun mess ! It lacks polish ! 2D Cyberspace is a disaster ! A lot of things could be a lot better ! But, at its core, it's a game about accepting the Sonic series, aiming for greatness no matter what and about Sonic Team giving it their all. Sonic Frontiers is special and I'll always appreciate it for that. A lot of people say it's a game people will not age well in a few month's time once the honeymoon is over. You're right about the game not aging well over time... but not because some stupid honeymoon concept will pass... because the next game will put this one to shame since Sonic Team has finally their head in the game again... the fire is burning... they've found their flame !

So yeah, I absolutely believe Sonic Team will iterate on this concept. Iizuka has hammered us with that in interviews lol. You may choose to believe Sonic Team can never improve, but in that case, as a Sonic fan that's still so active on a Sonic Forum, you can only be one of the following things:  someone who likes most of the games to this day, someone who needs to move on or.... you believe... you hope... deep down.. that Sonic Team can actually deliver a great game eventually whether you hate, like or love Frontiers !

Edit: Kishimoto himself on The End's dialogue:

"thank you!
Knowing that there are pros and cons to this true final boss battle, I dared to implement it as my way of life.
The End's lines spoken during the final boss battle are also a metaphor for my gaming life so far.
Thank you for understanding the message we put into this game!"

 

 

[DaddlerTheDalek]

I wonder how much Frontiers will impact the IDW Sonic comics and it's relation to the games. I mean Sonic name drops Tangle and Amy mentions Sticks.

[Blue Blood]

On 11/17/2022 at 12:22 PM, Shaddy Zaphod said:

I don't think there's necessarily anything wrong with not letting a player into a boss arena when they're not actively fighting the boss, just with the fact that the arenas are diegetic parts of the game's world and throwing a big wall in their face telling them "no" is really immersion-breaking.

I guess that's reason #71 that Rhea should have actually had its geometry split off from Kronos entirely (no I will not shut up about this)

It makes sense that you can't approach the arenas early, especially when the Titans are just chilling there waiting for a fight. But not being able to return to them is arbitrary and frustrating. And yeah, I agree that blocking them off with gross invisible walls is a poor way to develop the world. 

[Zoomzeta]

2 hours ago, DaddlerTheDalek said:

I wonder how much Frontiers will impact the IDW Sonic comics and it's relation to the games. I mean Sonic name drops Tangle and Amy mentions Sticks.

We don't know yet.

[Austroid]

Regarding Eggman's overall tone in the game: I've seen people say he's sounds more like scientist and such with the Egg Memos. Honestly he comes across more tired than anything; which made me kinda sad. Not sure if that was due to Mike Pollock's direction or just how he sounds lately. That plus the addition of Sage almost feels like they want to slowly move Eggman away from the spotlight as the main villain in the future. I know it'd likely never happen, but that's kinda where my mind wandered.

Either way, I don't want to see my favorite egg-shaped madman get older! 

[Razule]

Surprised I didn't see anyone else notice this pre-release

On 6/28/2022 at 5:16 PM, Razule said:

SAGE's hair kinda looks like a broken egg shell..

Canon Eggette?

[Styx_Linoone]

So I had this thought - Is Ian willing to show us the road trip arc with Cream and Sticks in the IDW comics? Kind of interesting to see how Sticks' handles the chemistry between the two.

[GameMaster0097]

Original Kronos Island before it was split.

 

 

 

 

 

[DaddlerTheDalek]

3 hours ago, Styx_Linoone said:

So I had this thought - Is Ian willing to show us the road trip arc with Cream and Sticks in the IDW comics? Kind of interesting to see how Sticks' handles the chemistry between the two.

Hm. I would like to see the dynamic between them.

[SticksSuperFan14]

On 11/23/2022 at 6:28 PM, DaddlerTheDalek said:

Hm. I would like to see the dynamic between them.

Yeah, like who's closest to Amy in the main continuity?

[Zoomzeta]

2 hours ago, SticksSuperFan14 said:

Yeah, like who's closest to Amy in the main continuity?

Other than the trio? Cream, Big, and I guess Vector now to a lesser extent.

[SticksSuperFan14]

12 minutes ago, Zoomzeta said:

Other than the trio? Cream, Big, and I guess Vector now to a lesser extent.

Well, I mean between Cream and Sticks. Cream was established as her equivalent of Tails, and in Boom Sticks was Amy's best friend. So putting them both in the same room, for me, puts into question who of the two Amy has the closest relationship with.

[Austroid]

Its kind of sad how we haven't had a cool CG opening to a Sonic game since Unleashed.* I honestly don't remember anything from Frontiers' opening besides them crashing the Tornado. Also is it just me or did Frontiers' pre-rendered cutscenes seem like they were made in SFM?

(*You could count Lost World's opening I suppose... I don't lol)

[StaticMania]

9 hours ago, Austroid said:

(*You could count Lost World's opening I suppose... I don't lol)

You did use the word "cool" as a qualifier...so this was pretty obvious.

[SticksSuperFan14]

9 hours ago, Austroid said:

 Also is it just me or did Frontiers' pre-rendered cutscenes seem like they were made in SFM?

 

Are you implying that SFM is a bad program?

[Fyrwudz]

My final spoiler-filled thoughts on the game now I've finished it. I, for the most part, loved it. It doesn't get everything right (it really doesn't), but there is still so much to like here, especially following Forces and Lost World. It is a welcome change of pace to something more resembling Sonic Adventure. Given Adventure is my favourite game, it's easy to see why I have enjoyed my time with Frontiers.

I really hope Open Zone sticks around, with changes of course. I've always wanted the return of the Adventure Fields since they were abandoned after Adventure 1 and then poorly-executed in 06. Some of my fondest memories of Sonic are from running around Mystic Ruin. Open-Zone is a decent alternative. Man, is it fun to just freely run around a space as Sonic. 

It has its flaws though. Kronos Island was a good start, and then I felt Ares Island like the best utilisation of the Open Zone formula... and then it went downhill from there. Chaos Island was, for the most part, terrible. The amount of 2D on that island was ridiculous. Why design a large open space to then force me to play along linear corridors in a 2D plane? Even in the 3D parts of Chaos Island, navigation became a nightmare. Because so much of the world here is disjointed bits of land connected by rails, it was really annoying trying to figure out which rail I needed to get where I want to go. And on that note, can we please just call a time of death on rails in the franchise? They add nothing to the gameplay. They're just an instrument to ferry us partially through a stage while giving the impression of player input but allowing us basically no control. Visually, Chaos Island also stinks. Really boring and one-note, I couldn't wait to finish it.

Then the last two Islands. I think there was clearly a lot left on the cutting room floor for this game. Both beautiful, yes, but they are essentially still Kronos Island. I thought it was a bit cheap that the game was marketed as having a good handful of Islands, when three of them use the exact same biome and one of them is an ashen wasteland.

For Frontiers 2, I'd like to see a proper return to Adventure 1 and/or 06 in terms of balance between the amount of Open World and the Action Stages. I don't need massive open zones, because if you fill them with a whole load of nothing it isn't fun. Adventure 1 achieved this balance pretty nicely, where in Frontiers the areas are definitely bigger but visually nondescript and a lot emptier. I'd also like to see new action stages please. Finally. It's been long enough. Let GHZ/CPZ and SSZ die. I didn't mind the cyberspace stages as much as I thought I would though. I'd be pretty happy with maybe 3 or 4 visually distinct field areas each with 2 or 3 unique action stages accessed from it. I feel that would be the most satisfying and most realistic offering that could be made with this formula.

I have posted much more extensive thoughts on the story in the actual Story thread. My tl;dr is that I appreciate the ambition, but not necessarily the execution.

Highlight for me overall has to be the boss fights. I know many will disagree with me, but for me, Sonic's at his best when it's unapologetically turning things up to 11. I love the cheesiness. I love the edginess. When I first faced off against Giganto, I had the biggest grin on my face throughout the whole fight. Then the same with Wyvern, and then again with Knight. The fights themselves are off-the-wall, brazenly in-your-face and easily the best boss fights in the franchise. Battering the hell out of massive robots as Super Sonic has never felt this good, especially when the music is so good. I do not say this lightly, but Frontiers may be my favourite OST in the franchise to date. Undefeatable and Find Your Flame are both fantastic, and I cannot wait for the soundtrack to release properly so I can stick these on when I'm at the gym. 

The endgame was really disappointing. Supreme did not match up to anywhere near the levels of its predecessors, and "The End" was laughably disappointing. They should have saved Giganto for the final boss and it would have had more impact. Generally, for me, the cracks appeared around Chaos Island and they continued to spread, accelerating around the endgame into a... mess of an finale. 

Overall though, I've focussed more here on what I didn't like rather on what I did. I think this is a solid 7.5 or 8. I think it tries a lot, and the ambition is really appreciated, but a fair amount of it doesn't stick. I think we have a really good basis for a sequel in this game. One, ideally, with slightly smaller open areas and more expansive action stages.

EDIT: Since posting this, I've discovered that there is a whole other part of the final boss in Hard Mode - set that and went back and played it, and it was pretty epic. I do think it's a shame this was behind Hard Mode though, I wouldn't have known about this at all prior to completion (I was avoiding searching anything about the game cos of spoilers). I think they could have made a better compromise between Hard and Normal mode, as in just making the fight easier in Normal as opposed to stripping it completely, because I think anyone who invested in finishing the game should hear The End's Monologue as well as the epic music.

Edited November 26, 2022 by Fyrwudz
I have more to say!

[Austroid]

12 hours ago, SticksSuperFan14 said:

Are you implying that SFM is a bad program?

In the right hands it can look amazing.

Its just most of the time here the characters movements, general expressions, and overall shading look like someone's first 3D animation and not something made by a major company. (Eggman's horrible walking when he's alone in cyberspace really stuck out to me. Though that particular model never seemed very flexible to begin with...)