The Sonic Origins Spoilers Thread

[NoKaine]

29 minutes ago, Vampfox said:

It sucks major ass that we're getting the bad Sonic 3 songs.

The "new" Icecap Zone, and Launch Base Zone songs are fucking garbage. Carnival Night Zone is passable.

Music matters. Changing just one song can ruin the feel of a game. One of my favorite games is Donkey Kong Country 3. I remember getting the GBA version, and being disappointed cause they changed the entire soundtrack. This is a very big deal. People should be more upset.

If you're talking about the fact that the tracks were changed at all, it's either that or no game at all because SEGA can't afford fighting whoever they have to fight to legally use those tracks. And they can afford the entirety of Sonic 1 and Sonic 2's music, since that's also owned by someone else. No one is upset about that because they understand when copyright and law make things actually impossible.

If you're talking about the quality of the tracks themselves, people are upset and it's already enough. 

[MetalSkulkBane]

Just wondering: would you guys say that Sonic Origins is a definite version of those games?

[LegoFedora]

3 minutes ago, MetalSkulkBane said:

Just wondering: would you guys say that Sonic Origins is a definite version of those games?

I haven't played it yet so this is going purely off leaks/prerelease stuff, but I say absolutely. The new music for s3 being weaker is kind of a bummer, but luckily it's only for 3 zones so you'll only temporarily want to plug your ears. The retro engine + widescreen for these games are a great thing to finally have, and I really hope these are the versions sega ports from here on out.

But considering the taxman remakes were mobile only (except for CD or oddly specific exceptions like apple arcade) and all the console ports just being straight emulation, being the "definitive versions" of these games wasn't really a hard bar to pass.

Stuff like AIR or Absolute exist and are probably better, but for your average consumer who probably doesn't have the patience to set those up (or for the kids who don't even know what the word 'decomp' even means), then origins is about as good as it gets.

[antyep]

On 6/21/2022 at 1:27 PM, YeppersPeppers said:

 

Don't these bullies kinda look like Tails from Aosth?

[VO.SUPER]

1 hour ago, antyep said:

Don't these bullies kinda look like Tails from Aosth?

You know. I wouldnt be surprised if the color choice was an intentional reference. 

[Mangoaxe5]

1 hour ago, MetalSkulkBane said:

Just wondering: would you guys say that Sonic Origins is a definite version of those games?

Hell no. If it doesn't have the good Carnival Night Zone, IceCap Zone and Launch Base Zone Sonic 3 music, than it's not the definite version.

[StaticMania]

1 hour ago, antyep said:

Don't these bullies kinda look like Tails from Aosth?

No.

But they are foxes.

And they are a really reddish-orange, not orangish-brown.

[Tracker_TD]

2 hours ago, MetalSkulkBane said:

Just wondering: would you guys say that Sonic Origins is a definite version of those games?

Officially speaking, yes. And with the unfortunate exception of the music, I think there's a real case to be made for Sonic 3K's RSDK version finally dethroning 3 AIR - it feels wonderfully smooth, and the attention to detail is incredible. So many cool details that had me pointing and saying "holy shit that's awesome."

The problem is that 3 RSDK is so polished that the fact they didn't go back and bring the others up to the same standard makes them feel weaker, even though they're still technically the best official ports. 1/2/CD's drop dash implementation is fucked, because Sonic Team (badly) programmed it compared to Sonic 3K's drop dash which is 100% accurate to how it should be. There's lots of small inconsistencies, such as being able to skip the score tally but only in 3, and fixes long standing RSDK bugs like holding a spindash charge after falling off a collapsing platform, that should have been ported back to the older games... but weren't. The decompiled versions of 1/2/CD have mods that implement a much more accurate drop dash, as well as other quality of life features (such as Knuckles and even Amy in CD!) that push them above the Origins versions. 

 

The upside is that the script compiler for 1/2/CD is actually in Origins' files, so porting those mods over is actually likely to happen. But Sonic Team should've just admitted they couldn't do it properly and let Headcannon handle this. 

[Penny]

I think, for me, AIR still takes the cake. It's far more modular for one thing, from music to graphics options and everything else (including level order!), on top of having both the MJ Team tracks AND the 1103 prototype tracks available. And honestly, I haven't noticed much of a difference play-feel wise between the two; both feel smooth as butter.

There are a couple neat touches in Retro Engine 3&K (the segue between the 2 halves of the game comes to mind), but there are also a few things that feel off. There's the obvious downgrade of the proto tracks (and the Sonic 4-esque super theme), but beyond that, I've noticed a few other music related issues: the blue spheres music never speeding up, the level tracks resetting every time you collect a life, and Launch Base Act 1's loop including the intro to the track. Also, sometimes the physics pack a little too much oomph. Like, occasionally I'll get sent flying off ramps way faster than in any other version of the game. In fact, a lot of the speedy sections tend to feel a little faster than normal. Whether that last thing is an issue for someone is obviously subjective, but thought it should be mentioned regardless.

Overall, it's still all around the best official version we've ever seen, as expected. Those issues I mentioned, besides the replacement tracks of course, should easily be fixable in a patch (and even maybe the replacement tracks.... please, Sega? pretty please?). Whether or not we get patches.... well, we'll see I guess. Definitely hope so.

[Sean]

I love the decomps and AIR for what they are but I'm not concerned about Origins being actually better or worse than those. I think the decomps will always have their niche for the more hardcore fans who enjoy them due to their extreme flexibility in tinkering with them, but it's also important that official console versions of the mobile ports and 3K are finally out there and in our hands. In fact I never expected the Origins version of 3K to ever have the same wealth of options that AIR has since I can see it being a bit much for casual fans of the game who don't know what all the options actually do. While I think that the decomps may remain my preferred way of playing the games I think there'll always be room for me to go back to Origins especially in light of Sega's other half-assed re-releases of the games over the years, so it's nice to see them finally giving a shit about what were always the superior versions of these games.

[YeppersPeppers]

Already experienced a wild glitch in Sonic 3. Went though the game, got all the Super Emeralds, everything was going fine, but starting from Lava Reef Act 2, all the Rainbow Rings have been turned back into regular big rings, I no longer have Super OR Hyper Sonic, and I have to collect all the Chaos Emeralds again (minus the second one, for some reason that one was already given to me again?). Good. Just noticed that my score had completely reset as well. At no point did I exit the game.

[DaBigJ]

Well, this stinks.

[Sonicka]

I'm gunna have a mess around with this drop dash issue later - as personally speaking I've had zero problems with its implementation so far in these titles.  

TBH though, Sonic 1, 2 and CD are still the Retro ports at the end of the day even with Sonic Team's slight tampering - so I wouldn't exactly say that 3&K sticks out or is "more polished" compared to the others. 3&K still has a few minor bugs I've come across anyway (one such involving Sonic getting paused/stuck during his death animation in the middle of the screen). 

There are also two other Knuckles related oddities I have picked up on: 

1. Knuckles starts his S3 story by chilling in Mushroom Hill before getting attacked by Eggrobo (I'm glad they choose to use Mushroom Hill...) but then the sudden shift in location to Angel Island is a touch jarring.
2. His R/Y/G act title colour scheme for Sonic 2 isn't present.

So nothing major but... y'know how it is.  

That being said, you can certainly tell what Headcannon worked extra on in this package (that New Blue Sphere's title screen and the mode itself is gorgeous) for example. But it's not like the whole package has been butchered by Sonic Team or anything. 

I think the only thing they've mishandled slightly here is the in-in game menus and saving system - especially sad considering the overworld menu is bloody amazing to look at. Rather than try to tailor menus and options within each game, what they should have setup a is a standardised menu screen that is unanimous across all 4 titles and their respective modes.

I personally feel that the way the original Retro Versions of 1, 2, CD and Mania were implemented on mobile were crystal clear and easy to understand, but in this package it now comes across as disjointed because it tries to be too faithful to each game. At present I'm not sure what I've collected across all my saves as the way these are handled is not entirely clear. Unlike 3&K selection screen I think you only get one shot at playing as Sonic or Tails or Knuckles, or Both etc... you can't pick and choose them in a slot as the save slots are predetermined (so for example, if you wanted to do a 2nd Solo run as Sonic on the same specific mode and keep your first save... then you're out of luck). 

But honestly, when you consider the rest of the effort put in (on top of best official versions of the games being here), like the additional Story, Mirror, Anniversary, Classic, boss rushes and mission modes - not to mention the hundreds of unlockable extras and the new animated cutscenes... sums this up to more than a worthy package overall.  

[Spooky Mulder]

Really wish we knew more about what the details regarding the S3K soundtrack issue. I wish a deal could be reached to let those tracks be used for an additional fee. I'd happily pay DLC for Sonic 3's original tracks if that's what it takes to pay off MJs estate or whoever claims the rights.

[Penny]

I actually did notice a glitch in Sandopolis Act 2: after a certain point (might've been after I got the last Super Emerald), all the checkpoints were already switched on before I got there, and when I died to the boss (got crushed while Hyper??) I had to start the stage over again. Same thing happened the next few times I died. Annoying, and hopefully rare, but I did think it was funny that of all the stages to get broken like that, ofc it just had to be Sandopolis Act 2.

[DaBigJ]

So, apparently the combi ring is in Sonic 3?

 

[Shaddy Zaphod]

Origins is basically built off Mania, and people are finding other Mania assets in there. Not a huge surprise.

[DaBigJ]

2 hours ago, Shaddy Zaphod said:

Origins is basically built off Mania, and people are finding other Mania assets in there. Not a huge surprise.

This is aging pretty well.

How odd they made peelout sprites though...kinda makes you wonder....

[pppp]

So...apparently Sonic Team can't even code a Sound Test without screwing it up somehow:

 

 

Those familiar with 3D Blast and Chaotix music I think can see what's wrong here.

[Fyrwudz]

Yeah I was literally about to post about this too, I noticed that many of the Knuckles Chaotix tracks are incorrectly titled. A pretty glaring error really. I've been playing through Sonic 3... and I'm kind of astouned at how much the ball was dropped on the replacement tracks, as in, the original prototype tracks were actually fine. Ice Cap sounds fine, but as many people have said, it no longer fits the stage thematically compared to the original. Carnival Night is just plain dreadful, which is a real shame as I thought the Proto Act 2 track was really great... they literally needed to do nothing and just slap the prototype tracks in, but no. Launch base is also okay, but still I prefer the prototype tracks.

[NoKaine]

Again, it's weird because they do just slap the prototype tracks for the Competition, Blue Spheres, and Credits, but not the zone tracks, which also sound like they're not really finished except for IceCap which is almost identical. 

[Tornado]

On 6/21/2022 at 4:08 PM, Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon said:

This is honestly something of a better comparison to judge things off of.

Honestly, with how much SSMB was hyping it up, I was expecting something truly horrendous sounding. Not so.

This video is bullshit and I wonder what piece of shit blown capacitor Model 1 he used to make the recording, because I can prove it now:

 

 

I just recorded that off of my hardware:

 

[DaBigJ]

5 hours ago, pppp said:

So...apparently Sonic Team can't even code a Sound Test without screwing it up somehow:

Those familiar with 3D Blast and Chaotix music I think can see what's wrong here.

Between this, the horrible audio mixing, the fact they got rid of things like the Sonic and Tails combo in Sonic 1 (can now ONLY be done in Level Select. Thanks SEGA) and Sonic's voice clips in Sonic CD (at least the 'I'm outta here!' one), the horrible execution of the drop dash in S1/2/CD, and the amount of issues Sonic 3 reportingly has...

Yeah, this was rushed, you can't convinced me otherwise. 

[TheOcelot]

Hope you guys are having fun playing Origins. I have despite the many glitches I've (and no doubt you guys have all) encountered, especially in the new version of 3K.

There was one particular glitch I encountered towards the end of 3K which was the final nail in the coffin of what's been a shit day for me:

When playing through Story Mode in the PS4 version; I got the good ending in S1, CD & S2. After I unlocked Hyper Sonic in Mushroom Hill I then lost everything at the start of Lava Reef act2; my score reset to zero, I lost all chaos & super emeralds, could no longer turn Hyper Sonic (the game wanted me to start collecting the chaos emeralds all over again when I entered a special stage giant ring in LR act2...), and as a result I got the bad ending in 3K, lol!

It's been a shit day because my laptop broke which ruined the Origins live-stream I started this morning which I had to stop because I couldn't see or respond/reply to any comments due to my busted laptop. I also use that laptop for "working from home"..... FUCK! So I've ordered a new laptop & sent the broken one off to get repaired...

Back to Origins:

So I did a "private" full playthrough of Story Mode this afternoon (where I encountered the aforementioned game altering glitch).

Here's the playthrough I did:

Also played Mission Mode which is a lot of fun & Boss Rush is good as well.

I give Origins an A-Rank but it's way short of the S-Rank this collection should have been.

[YeppersPeppers]

15 minutes ago, TheOcelot said:

There was one particular glitch I encountered towards the end of 3K which was the final nail in the coffin of what's been a shit day for me:

When playing through Story Mode in the PS4 version; I got the good ending in S1, CD & S2. After I unlocked Hyper Sonic in Mushroom Hill I then lost everything at the start of Lava Reef act2; my score reset to zero, I lost all chaos & super emeralds, could no longer turn Hyper Sonic (the game wanted me to start collecting the chaos emeralds all over again when I entered a special stage giant ring in LR act2...), and as a result I got the bad ending in 3K, lol!

Yup, experienced this one while as well yesterday, and have seen a couple of others note it. If you are playing the game separately, you can reload your save and it'll be fine, but if you are playing through S3 in Story Mode and it happens, you're shit outta luck.

EDIT: Literally minutes after posting this, I encounter the bug again, this time transitioning into Marble Garden Act 2 and losing my score and all seven Chaos Emeralds. What the fuck is this bug?