Should Sega follow up origins with a "middle era" collection? What should it include?

[castell-neath]

As much as I'm enjoying Origins at the moment (warts and all) and having a huge nostalga fest by re-running my 90s gaming childhood, I've realised that I've not played ANY of Sa1, Sa2 or heroes in around 10 years being as 1) I no longer own a ps3 and 2) do not have PS plus / nor likely to.

I really wouldnt mind a nostalga run of my uni days in the early 2000s and wouldnt mind seeing a follow up with some form of  "middle era" collection (ideas for a better name welcome!). I think if it included Sa1DX, Sa2Battle, Heroes and Shadow, that would be great and i would buy it, but what do people think? Is there a demand for this? If so, what extras would you like to see in it?

For me i'd like to see:

* The island system return to select games, but maybe as towns instead of islands? (Station square, City escape, grand metropolis etc)

* Coins to be used to unlock both Advance and Rush games in anniversary mode which is widescreen. Classic mode keeps the lives and original resolution

* Some Sonic X art and promos in the museum along with the other bits of the symphony for the era in question

* some,but not major, graphic polish to sa1 and sa2.

* i know i hate them,but for those who love them (and there are many!) a whole island dedicated to raising and deveoling chao 

What do people think? Is there demand?  What extras would you like to see in such a collection?

Should it be out to tie in to the Sonic 3 film to "introduce the audience" to Shadow or just after like origins?

Any and all thoughts welcome!

[Solister]

I've gotta be honest, I feel Origins was a wrong project from the beginning...

In fact, I think everything started wrong when prioritizing mobile as the platforms of Sonic 1 and 2 ports than consoles, where likely it had more public.

Said that, I don't know why they didn't make a Sonic Mega Collection Plus like game and included pretty much every 16/32-bits game they could think of on Origins. As much appreciated it would be to have Sonic 1, 2, Chaos or Triple Trouble in widescreen, I really doubt anyone would be angry if these were included on Origins as emulations. Heck, these games are abandonware these days, SEGA probably loses more for not licensing them to the public than the actual costs to port them.

But going back to the topic subject, there's not really much to disagree, except I'd prioritize a proper Mega Collection Plus 2022 update than actually move to the Adventure Era. I'm also afraid the demand for those could also be lower (I mean, not that the demand for Origins was high anyway), since Sonic Adventure 2 HD still holds pretty well on Steam and while Sonic Adventure Steam is probably the worst port of the game, mods can make it easily the best version out there.

Then, I pretty much fall into that "ideal Origins" concept. Sonic Adventure 1 and 2 ports (Even though this would be a hard to make, I'd love a more direct integration between both, so a single continuous Adventure Field for SA1, possibly even Adventure Fields for SA2, and more than anything, playable characters of both games on the opposite game levels (for example: Shadow in Emerald Coast or Gamma in Prison Lane)).

Heroes, then, would be a S3&K like project, which would require the most work to make it widescreen and playable on modern hardware. With these 3, I think Advance and Rush could be thrown as emulated bonus (Despite an update like the Master System games would be more than welcome).

Still, a simple port of Heroes to Steam without major updates already would make me happy. Even ports of games like Sonic the Fighters already would be cool, and even Sonic R I'm very sure Jon Burton/GameHut would be ok to make the right fixes to the game and then port it to modern Hardware.

And I'm not even asking Colors Ultimate levels of ports/remaster (which then I could write another full text on why I think it was a useless game).

But of course, this is ignoring the fact that SEGA also needs to keep making new games, which (hopefully) one of the reasons for a "poor" Origins is that their focus is at Frontiers.

[Starnik]

Who would make the games exactly? Would Sonic team have to stop making new games to port these over? A new Sonic would probably sell better a collection of old ones, so it might not sound like a good idea to SEGA/Sonic team. And these games are a sour reputation online. If this collection was made, it would attract a lot of nitpicking from gamers online. It would be a reaction worse than the one people had to Sonic Origins DLC or Sonic Colors Ultimate. The last thing Sega wants, or needs, is more negativity surrounding Sonic. As a fan it’s pretty exhausting to see the endless hate Sonic gets online. 
On the other hand, I can see some Sonic fans enjoying this hypothetical collection. But I don’t think it’s worth risking Sonic’s reputation by releasing more buggy games. 
Maybe if the collection was just Sonic adventure 1 and 2, and it was super polished, it might go over well. But even then it would make fans unhappy that Sonic adventure 3 was never made. And people would argue about the different play styles being unfun. And that’s not even getting into the issue of old vs new actors voicing the lines.
 

 
 

[babsiwuff]

I want to see a rerelease of the Advance games.  Only with Anniversary mode, have all the characters unlocked, and have unlimited lives.  Also, I wouldn’t mind a release of Sonic Chronicles.  I didn’t like that game much, but it wasn’t terrible.

[MGA_Gamer]

I'd like a Game Gear compilation. All the 8-bit Sonic games (As well as the spin-offs like the Tails games).

[castell-neath]

3 hours ago, MGA_Gamer said:

I'd like a Game Gear compilation. All the 8-bit Sonic games (As well as the spin-offs like the Tails games).

The 8 bit games, especially the original 3 (1,2, chaos) do not get the love they deserve from sega at all i feel. 

4 hours ago, babsiwuff said:

I want to see a rerelease of the Advance games.  Only with Anniversary mode, have all the characters unlocked, and have unlimited lives.  Also, I wouldn’t mind a release of Sonic Chronicles.  I didn’t like that game much, but it wasn’t terrible.

I think the only catch there would be any rights held by Dimps. But i am with you on that!

6 hours ago, Starnik said:

Who would make the games exactly? Would Sonic team have to stop making new games to port these over? A new Sonic would probably sell better a collection of old ones, so it might not sound like a good idea to SEGA/Sonic team. And these games are a sour reputation online. If this collection was made, it would attract a lot of nitpicking from gamers online. It would be a reaction worse than the one people had to Sonic Origins DLC or Sonic Colors Ultimate. The last thing Sega wants, or needs, is more negativity surrounding Sonic. As a fan it’s pretty exhausting to see the endless hate Sonic gets online. 
On the other hand, I can see some Sonic fans enjoying this hypothetical collection. But I don’t think it’s worth risking Sonic’s reputation by releasing more buggy games. 
Maybe if the collection was just Sonic adventure 1 and 2, and it was super polished, it might go over well. But even then it would make fans unhappy that Sonic adventure 3 was never made. And people would argue about the different play styles being unfun. And that’s not even getting into the issue of old vs new actors voicing the lines.
 

 
 

I think sa1, sa2 and heroes could be handed over to a third party who loves them and could do them justice like headcanon / taxman did for the classics. Tbh I tbink sega should have a "legacy" division to curate and improve(?) old games accross the board so that we can access them. Obviously not remake them from the ground up like Mafia, but just...curate, maybe smooth a few things,like tgey did with mafia II

[Starnik]

33 minutes ago, castell-neath said:

The 8 bit games, especially the original 3 (1,2, chaos) do not get the love they deserve from sega at all i feel. 

I think the only catch there would be any rights held by Dimps. But i am with you on that!

I think sa1, sa2 and heroes could be handed over to a third party who loves them and could do them justice like headcanon / taxman did for the classics. Tbh I tbink sega should have a "legacy" division to curate and improve(?) old games accross the board so that we can access them. Obviously not remake them from the ground up like Mafia, but just...curate, maybe smooth a few things,like tgey did with mafia II

A legacy division sounds like an interesting idea. SEGA has a large catalog of old games to choose from, in that case.

[Shaddy Zaphod]

While there has been some speculation that THQ distributing the Sonic Advance games overseas has caused rights issues for re-release, there's no direct evidence that SEGA is not in full control of those games the way there is with, for instance, Sonic Pocket Adventure. Sadly, this does suck, as it means SEGA is just leaving them on the floor for no real reason, but that's a story we're all already familiar with, if we're honest. And it's a shame, because even as I know people really complain about Advance 3's level design (I'm more annoyed by 2, frankly), I think that a widescreen no-lives rerelease that tones down some of the bottomless pits (and the chaos emerald hunting, Jesus) would elevate them to being on-par with the classic games. Hell, throw Battle in there too, since its technically a precursor to 3's story.

Though that said, I think it's unlikely that more than four Sonic games will ever be in a collection at this point, so the most I could hope is that we get nice upgrades to the games. You could maybe package Rush and Rush Adventure with Colors DS (and update both Rush games to feel more like Colors lol) and call that a trilogy, but I'd still be feeling the lack of Blaze in the third game.

As for the Adventure games, my ideal Sonic Adventure collection would include 1 and 2 (with these mods or something copying their homework), and that'd be great on its own. The DC visuals have aged a lot better than people give them credit for, and the amount of little things that fan mods have been able to improve upon turn both Adventure games into experiences I can tentatively recommend. My only real gripe is that that recommendation comes with a big asterisk about having to set up a whole bunch of mods, especially for SA2. The usual infinite lives and Super Sonic stuff would be great, too.

But SEGA, at least as of Generations, considers Heroes to be a part of the family right alongside SA1 and SA2 (probably because it sold really well), so it could go in there too, but I think Heroes needs more fixing-up than the Adventure games. The stage and physics mod does a lot of good, but the tricky rail hitboxes, tendency for Sonic to lurch forward when hitting the ground, and constant presence of uninteresting combat and tedious stage replays make it just a hard game to go back to for me. In the "anniversary mode" so to speak, I'd be okay with the characters being at max level the whole time, giving the six emeralds (since Shadow has one) to Teams Sonic, Rose and Chaotix after each of their Eggman fights, and letting you jump into the last story without finishing all three of the others.

Finally, most annoyingly, Heroes's story is kind of incomplete without also including Shadow the hedgehog. But not only does that game suck, its story is already incomplete because it retcons itself in its' own ending. If I ever give that game another chance outside note-taking for my own content, it needs to have a lot of work done. Rearrange the levels and cutscenes into a linear story, don't force me to complete boring mission objectives (leave them in as extras, same as the other games), and frankly, take out the "mature" content. It doesn't fit, and it ironically makes the game more juvenile than staying in its lane as a dumb kids' game ever could. Would this be leaving a lot of content on the cutting room floor? Yes. Does that mean it will never ever happen? Also yes. But I want it anyway.

After that, shoot, I dunno, maybe throw Project 06 in there whenever ChaosX gets done. Whatever.

[Iko]

I'm pretty sure they are planning something in order to ride the wave of movie 3, like how Origins was made for the new fans who come from the movies and never played the classics; though it will probably be a remastered version of Adventure 2, and I hope they will get it right because I can't see the fans reacting well if Sega screws up a "remake" (likely just an enhanced port) of that specific game.

But personally, I don't care, all I want is the Advance games being avaliable on modern hardware, maybe revamped and polished, with QoL updates and some new features here and there.

[Salamander]

Maybe they should consider finishing Origins first.

But talking about an Advance collection, a comparison to Konami's Castlevania Advance Collection seems fruitful, and that had all sorts of mod cons included, like save states and bestiaries and widgets to indicate collectibles and even all the different regional versions.  In much the same way as that was the three GBA Castlevanias plus one (rather oddly chosen) bonus, a Sonic Advance collection with the three Advance games plus, say, Battle (also a GBA game!) would seem favourable; a savestate function would satisfy a lot of the complaints about lives and excessively difficult special stages.

[VO.SUPER]

They should, but only if they commit the time to not breaking the games. Unlike the Classics, which you need to try hard to break, those games are already on a shakey foundation.

Also, outsource it to a company who specializes in these kind of remasters.  AND NO. Not the cheapest bidder. 

[mayday2592]

 I would prefer a remake in the vein of N.Sane trilogy that smoothes over the game's issues and adds some fresh content to make it worthwhile for people who have played these games several times over. Ex. Mirror mode, skins, online multiplayer, etc.

[Mangoaxe5]

I'd love a collection that's made up of the Sonic Adventure games(plus Heroes, and Shadow the Hedgehog), and the Sonic Advance games. Plus Sonic Rush. I fucking love Sonic Rush.

My Wii broke, so I have no way of playing my copies of Sonic Adventure DX, Sonic Adventure 2 Battle, Sonic Heroes, and Shadow the Hedgehog. I'd love to play those games again(yes even Shadow).

The only reason I bought Sonic Origins was because I was no longer able to play my copies of Sonic Mega Collection, and Sonic Gems Collection(I mostly only played Sonic CD. The other games in Gems Collection were pretty bad).

Sega really needs to start treating the non Sega Genesis Sonic games better, and make collections for them too.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

In spite of what I’m hearing of Origins flaws, I say overwhelmingly yes they should include a middle collection. If they so chose to that is.

And remake everything they screwed up a decade ago so that it’s fitting (looking at ShTH) and actually functional (looking at Sonic 06).

[knuckles20]

I’m not a Steam player so I would like see a collection for the 2000s games for the Switch. It would be nice to play those titles without having to dust off my Wii and praying the Gamecube copies don’t fall victim to disc rot.

[moonarcana]

A collection with remastered SA1, SA2, and Heroes would be a solid tie-in to Sonic 3. Adding ShTH would be a terrible idea, it's just an all around terrible game and just being included would bring the quality of the collection down big time

 

Personally though I'm way more interested in seeing the Advance and Rush games getting widescreen remasters, they desperately need the extra screensize and might be easier to remaster on a smaller budget than the OG 3D titles (mainly Heroes)

[LegoFedora]

Sa1, sa2, heroes, and shadow. Shadow being here is just to stick with the trend of 4 games per collection, as well as being the last of the adventure style of games/tone before 06...happened. Plus it has its fans despite being one of the weaker entries, much like sonic 1 or CD being in origins despite being seen as some of the weaker entries of the classic games (atleast, from what I've seen regarding discussions of them). Why wouldn't they toss shadow in too?

Simple collection, even if it included the mediocre (but definitely still playable to casuals) 360 ports of DX/2B.

Add in some art for concepts, music player, movie collection and the extras are all handled.

[Multikaris]

On 7/10/2022 at 4:41 AM, castell-neath said:

As much as I'm enjoying Origins at the moment (warts and all) and having a huge nostalga fest by re-running my 90s gaming childhood, I've realised that I've not played ANY of Sa1, Sa2 or heroes in around 10 years being as 1) I no longer own a ps3 and 2) do not have PS plus / nor likely to.

I really wouldnt mind a nostalga run of my uni days in the early 2000s and wouldnt mind seeing a follow up with some form of  "middle era" collection (ideas for a better name welcome!). I think if it included Sa1DX, Sa2Battle, Heroes and Shadow, that would be great and i would buy it, but what do people think? Is there a demand for this? If so, what extras would you like to see in it?

For me i'd like to see:

* The island system return to select games, but maybe as towns instead of islands? (Station square, City escape, grand metropolis etc)

* Coins to be used to unlock both Advance and Rush games in anniversary mode which is widescreen. Classic mode keeps the lives and original resolution

* Some Sonic X art and promos in the museum along with the other bits of the symphony for the era in question

* some,but not major, graphic polish to sa1 and sa2.

* i know i hate them,but for those who love them (and there are many!) a whole island dedicated to raising and deveoling chao 

What do people think? Is there demand?  What extras would you like to see in such a collection?

Should it be out to tie in to the Sonic 3 film to "introduce the audience" to Shadow or just after like origins?

Any and all thoughts welcome!

Sounds good, but we could also get a “missing” Classic games collection alongside it with games like R, 3D Blast, and Chaotix, plus art/promos from the DiC cartoons and the OVA.

 

Other suggestions: Battle, 06, the Riders/Rivals, and Storybook games either as more unlockables or as a “missing middle era games” collection alongside the “late premodern” collection. 
 

Multiple versions of SA1 for different experiences. 

[McGroose]

A part of me would prefer that they don't continue to tarnish these older games again. It's not like SADX was a great port anyway, although the new content was nice. Their recent track record with ports has been really bad, in my opinion.

But it's not like I'm going to buy it if it's bad anyway, so I guess I'm cool with them releasing whatever they want. I'd be fine with them rereleasing Sonic 06 for $59.99 and making it even worse. I just won't buy it.

The worst part is when they try to hide their older ports so that their newer trash ports are all that's available, like how Sonic CD is no longer viewable on Steam unless you previously purchased it. I don't want a new fan's experience With SA2 to be an overpriced compilation with new problems attached to it that the old one didn't have.

[Mangoaxe5]

7 hours ago, moonarcana said:

Adding ShTH would be a terrible idea, it's just an all around terrible game and just being included would bring the quality of the collection down big time

 

Some of us like Shadow the Hedgehog. 

[jungle_penguins]

Sonic 3D Blast, Sonic R, Sonic Adventure, Sonic Shuffle, Sonic Adventure 2, nothing after because it'll cause the franchise to implode, provided Sonic Shuffle doesn't do that first.

[JezMM]

We have a tendancy to always seperate handheld and portable, but I actually think the smartest "middle era" collection might well be Sonic Adventure, Sonic Adventure 2 and the Sonic Advance trilogy.

Even with SA1 and SA2's jankiness, the Advance games being present would probably prop-up the collection for the "nostalgic but don't actually care that much about Sonic really" types who thought Sonic 4 Episode 1 was fine simply because it was 2D Sonic, etc.

That five would, I think, be a realistic expectation, as most of the work on Sonic Adventure/SA2 is already done unless they want to give them a second remastering pass (no complaints if they did (and uhh, did so competently)).

But ideally it'd be cool to include Heroes as a base game, and then throw in Shadow, Riders, Battle and Pinball Party as unlockables.  Treating them as bonus unlockable spin-offs, keeping them from being the main attraction, would make a game like Shadow not quite stink up the advertised package as much as it might otherwise.

The only other issue with Shadow other than it's quality is that it'd instantly bump up the age rating for a collection of games otherwise suitable for all but the youngest kids.  I'd be fine with the game being altered to remove the swearing, as well as the alien blood and realistic firearms if necessary (though latter would be tricky with them appearing in the opening FMV).

Of course, a 10 game collection would be an insane expectation, especially if they're all to be remastered rather than emulated.

[moonarcana]

On 7/17/2022 at 7:15 PM, Vampfox said:

Some of us like Shadow the Hedgehog. 

That's cool but that doesn't change the fact that the game has a horrible reputation and advertising it as a major part of a collection of 3D Sonics would be a huge marketing fail.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Why not simply not do the dumb shit again when it comes to adding ShTH? 

Rewrite the script and make the weapons look similar to the Wispons. Or take out the weapons and let Shadow use Chaos Spear in their place.

I can honestly give ShTH a second chance if it actually fixed the problems that gave it its bad rep.

[Sean]

If Capcom can re-release DMC2 in both the collection and individually on the Switch eshop then Sega can re-release any Sonic game from around this era.

Bring them all back imo. Even the games I hate. idc all this shit needs to be preserved and it kills me that Sega just refuses to bring back anything between SA2 and Colors lol