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Theory about Sonic 06 time travel


MetalSkulkBane

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I know, it's topic old as... well 06. But as far as I'm aware no one has satisfying answer and it's been a while, so here's my guess.

A.  TIME RULES

For me, time travel makes sense if we make 2 assumptions (Well, 3. But last one I leave for later).

1. Causal Loops are the law. (Not TIME LOOPS. That's Groundhog Day) Shadow releases Mephiles, which leads to him going back in time to seal him, which leads to release him later. Everything is predestined, set in stone, including time travel. You can go back but you'll only cause the even you're trying to prevent.

2. Mephiles knows this but also is the only person who can break this law. To be more specific, forming Solaris breaks this law.

B, CAUSAL LOOP

With that knowledge keep in mind that it's also possible to go back in time and change nothing. Sonic and Shadow have seen Iblis Future, went back to Present and then fail to stop it.

Every other time travel to the past is loop. Shadow sealing Mephiles being the easiest one to understand.

Sonic by the end of his story watches Egg Carrier fall and assumes Elise was inside, but get this: if that was the case we would see Iblis emerge. A second time traveling Sonic already saved Elise, but Sonic no. 1 doesn't know it, so he time travels, closing the Casual Loop.

And Silver? He goes back in time to prevent release of Iblis, but once he goes back to the future Iblis is still there. That's because Mephiles killed Sonic, so Silver changed nothing.

C. MEPHILES

Again, Mephiles knows how Casual Loop works, but not detailed events. He send Silver hoping he will kill Sonic. He tried tricking Shadow into joining him, because that's exactly a thing that would turn humanity against Shadow. Mephiles assumes he's making another Casual Loops. Just because events are preordained to happen, it doesn't mean he can just sit and do nothing. People who read/watch Harry Potter should know the drill.

And so Mephiles kills Sonic. He could just sit back, let world burn and close the Casual Loop. Oooooor he can officially break the rules. Merge with Iblis, become Solaris, and time itself begins collapsing. (The only people alive just happened to be time travelers, but that's separate theory.)

And that's why Mephiles looses. Because he changed the rules. Elise and Sonic go back in time and finally manage to change the future. That was impossible before, but Solaris was in process of destroying time itself.

D. OTHER GAMES

Which leads to last plot hole: Blue Chaos Emerald, which was with Elise for last 10 years. Then how Sonic 3, Adventure 1-2, Heroes etc. could happen?

My answer... they didn't  Sonic Vs Solaris is first time he went Super in THIS timeline. Since Knuckles and Shadow are here the previous games happened in some way, but much differently from what we know. We never seen those events.

Keep in mind, Elise killing Solaris removes more than just 06. Last 10 years (or more) have changed, even by butterfly effect logic. Especially since god of time is no more. My last assumption is: Sonic 06 is original timeline.

All other Sonic games take place in new post-candle-blow timeline. And BTW, since rules of time travel changed, Silver's future is no longer set in stone, so his hard work actually changes things.

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1 hour ago, MetalSkulkBane said:

Sonic by the end of his story watches Egg Carrier fall and assumes Elise was inside, but get this: if that was the case we would see Iblis emerge. A second time traveling Sonic already saved Elise, but Sonic no. 1 doesn't know it, so he time travels, closing the Casual Loop.

Doesn't work. Elise's death was confirmed in the future.

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47 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

Actually works perfectly. What do you think happened to Elise when Iblis emerged?

She got burned into the crisp. "She died when she was kidnapped by Eggman" is the truth. Or at least would be if Mephiles closed the Loop.

Even if that data said she died inside the Egg Carrier, that's a very easy mistake to make when all witnesses got killed by Iblis. What people far away saw was the ship crashing, and minutes later Iblis appeared, with the princess never returning.

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13 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

If the records specifically claim she died when the battleship went down, and not in the fire demon apocalypse, I'm inclined to believe them, rather than assuming the game is misleading us.

If we assume that Iblis killed her seconds after emerging, then records don't lie.

Records "specifically" said she died during the kidnapping and that Eggman ship exploded. Both statements are true.

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The blue Chaos Emerald thing isn't that hard to explain, given that these things plainly move about on their own whenever they feel like it.  Picture the existence of a "mainline" blue emerald and a "time loop" emerald.  At some arbitrary point, the mainline emerald swaps itself with the time loop emerald, goes through the whole time loop until it reaches the point it swapped in, and then swaps out to become the mainline emerald again.  Thus its timeline is not a circle, but the image of Sonic going through a loop-the-loop: He runs in, goes around in a circle, and runs out again.

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3 hours ago, Salamander said:

The blue Chaos Emerald thing isn't that hard to explain, given that these things plainly move about on their own whenever they feel like it.  Picture the existence of a "mainline" blue emerald and a "time loop" emerald.  At some arbitrary point, the mainline emerald swaps itself with the time loop emerald, goes through the whole time loop until it reaches the point it swapped in, and then swaps out to become the mainline emerald again.  Thus its timeline is not a circle, but the image of Sonic going through a loop-the-loop: He runs in, goes around in a circle, and runs out again.

....that blew my mind.

It sounds crazy at first, but is actually a very elegant solution.

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  • 3 weeks later...
On 8/16/2022 at 8:01 AM, MetalSkulkBane said:

Which leads to last plot hole: Blue Chaos Emerald, which was with Elise for last 10 years. Then how Sonic 3, Adventure 1-2, Heroes etc. could happen?

Well, it might be a stretch, but maybe it had been 10 years since they last used the blue emerald? I like that better than Salamander's blue emerald loop tbh.

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8 hours ago, SonicFanForLife said:

Well, it might be a stretch, but maybe it had been 10 years since they last used the blue emerald? I like that better than Salamander's blue emerald loop tbh.

I know that time is weird in Sonic, but that would imply that between Shadow Game and 06 there was 10 year break, during which Cream and Charmy didn't aged even a little. Or Eggman who is human, so we can't pretend mobians age slower or something.

I prefer Salamander's loop de loop or mine's "06 is a first timeline" options. Time travel is already messed up, I don't want aging to get freaky too.

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6 hours ago, MetalSkulkBane said:

I know that time is weird in Sonic, but that would imply that between Shadow Game and 06 there was 10 year break, during which Cream and Charmy didn't aged even a little. Or Eggman who is human, so we can't pretend mobians age slower or something.

I prefer Salamander's loop de loop or mine's "06 is a first timeline" options. Time travel is already messed up, I don't want aging to get freaky too.

Well, Sonic's world ages slower in Sonic X, so maybe we could say that 10 years isn't that long in the mainline games. But, that would mean the 50 year time between Project Shadow and the present would actually be much shorter.

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59 minutes ago, SonicFanForLife said:

Well, Sonic's world ages slower in Sonic X, so maybe we could say that 10 years isn't that long in the mainline games. But, that would mean the 50 year time between Project Shadow and the present would actually be much shorter.

Elise and Gun Commander did age, so nope.

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My theory about the Chaos Emeralds goes like this.

At an unknown time, the Chaos Emeralds are created.

At the end of time, the Chaos Emeralds are gathered, and they time travel

back to the beginning of time. So the Chaos Emeralds have always existed.

There is only one set, but they can be in two places at one time.

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Okay. I reread Salamander's time looping emerald theory. While it does make sense, it's my theory that it wasn't swapped, but doubled. The second blue emerald never leaves the time loop. Read carefully.

Sonic and co. used the blue emerald that existed since the emeralds were created during the games before Sonic 06. Silver time traveled from the present to the past and gave Elise the blue emerald. In the present, Elise gave Sonic the emerald. Then, Sonic gave Eggman the emerald. Silver took the emerald from Eggman and traveled to the past and gave it to Elise; trapping the blue emerald in a time loop and erasing how the blue emerald entered the time loop. Therefore, the emerald existed in 2 places at once for 10 years until Silver took the time loop emerald from the present.

So the questions remain. Where was the original blue emerald before Mephiles summoned it and how did it originally enter the time loop?

I have answered the latter question.

Silver first obtained the original blue emerald from an unknown location and traveled back in time with it. In the altered present day, Silver got the time loop emerald instead; erasing the event where Silver obtained the original emerald, and leaving the original blue emerald where Silver had obtained it before time was altered. That must be where the original blue emerald was when Mephiles summoned it.

How's that?

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18 minutes ago, SonicFanForLife said:

Okay. I reread Salamander's time looping emerald theory. While it does make sense, it's my theory that it wasn't swapped, but doubled. The second blue emerald never leaves the time loop. Read carefully.

Sonic and co. used the blue emerald that existed since the emeralds were created during the games before Sonic 06. Silver time traveled from the present to the past and gave Elise the blue emerald. In the present, Elise gave Sonic the emerald. Then, Sonic gave Eggman the emerald. Silver took the emerald from Eggman and traveled to the past and gave it to Elise; trapping the blue emerald in a time loop and erasing how the blue emerald entered the time loop. Therefore, the emerald existed in 2 places at once for 10 years until Silver took the time loop emerald from the present.

So the questions remain. Where was the original blue emerald before Mephiles summoned it and how did it originally enter the time loop?

I have answered the latter question.

Silver first obtained the original blue emerald from an unknown location and traveled back in time with it. In the altered present day, Silver got the time loop emerald instead; erasing the event where Silver obtained the original emerald, and leaving the original blue emerald where Silver had obtained it before time was altered. That must be where the original blue emerald was when Mephiles summoned it.

How's that?

I think i get most of that. My only question is: At what point does The Enterprise show up?

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2 hours ago, castell-neath said:

I think i get most of that. My only question is: At what point does The Enterprise show up?

 

The Enterprise was seen crashed in the Sonic ova.

And in Star Trek III: The Enterprise crashed into a fireball onto the “Genesis Planet.”

Wait a Minute! “Genesis Planet”?

Star Trek is owned by paramount, and paramount made the sonic movie.

 

 

 

 

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18 hours ago, Sonicstitch said:

The Enterprise was seen crashed in the Sonic ova.

And in Star Trek III: The Enterprise crashed into a fireball onto the “Genesis Planet.”

Wait a Minute! “Genesis Planet”?

Star Trek is owned by paramount, and paramount made the sonic movie.

Whoa... We've got our own time loop going on.

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We don't even need to consider how sonic and gang had the emerald while assuming it was with Elise, the game itself is the explanation we seek.

We are looking at a game that never happened, we are looking at events that reverted themselves, so it doesn't really matter what happened during the game, for in the end it didn't. Because the events of the game happened.. they never happened; Elise had the blue emerald for 10 years, but in the end she never had it.

'06 paradox explains all, it's events are a separate thing in the timeline, and not just of SEGA's perspective, but in-universe as well.

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4 hours ago, NikoS said:

We don't even need to consider how sonic and gang had the emerald while assuming it was with Elise, the game itself is the explanation we seek.

We are looking at a game that never happened, we are looking at events that reverted themselves, so it doesn't really matter what happened during the game, for in the end it didn't. Because the events of the game happened.. they never happened; Elise had the blue emerald for 10 years, but in the end she never had it.

'06 paradox explains all, it's events are a separate thing in the timeline, and not just of SEGA's perspective, but in-universe as well.

That's not how alternative timeline works.

If I baked a cake for myself, but my brother ate it and I went back to prevent baking in the first place, entire adventure got erased 06 style. But it still followed made sense from outside perspective.

If I baked a cake for myself, but my brother ate it and then magically turned into a bear, I can go back in time and prevent this from happening. A impossible event no longer happened, so I don't need to worry about it, but I still don't know how this happened. Emerald being in 2 places at once is less perplexing than magical transformation into a bear, but equally impossible.

So when people say "don't worry about, 06 didn't happen" it not explanation to problem, it's just pointing that problem doesn't really matter.

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