The Queen's death and people's attitudes

[PaddyFancy]

 

I wanna vent about something. I'm British. I'm proud to be British. I liked the Queen and I like the Royal Family.

 

But that doesn't mean I agree with every bad or questionable thing the Royal Family or the British Empire have done over the centuries. I'm the sort of person who likes to get the miniature Union Jacks out with my mum whilst watching the Last Night of the Proms.

 

Obviously an event like this will mean a lot of blanket coverage in the news media, particularly television. It was the same during the Platinum Jubilee celebrations. Don't worry. I'm sure they will get back to the War in Ukraine, Cost of Living, Climate Change and Coronavirus dominating the agenda once this cools down. You know, things that will get you more depressed than anything else.

 

I'm seeing things that make the Royal Family look like Trump, Putin and Bolosarno or whatever his name is all rolled into one.

 

And I think the likes of the BBC have cancelled a lot of their programming tonight. Oh noes what am I gonna do? Stick a DVD on, watch YouTube. Play video games. Do whatever it is you normally do when there's nothing good on telly.

 

I'm sure the death of the Queen is not going to affect the vast majority of people's lives. What happened to me tonight? The shop I worked in closed early out of respect, but we're still getting a full shift's pay. From a customer's point of view, if you're gonna curse out the Queen, Royal Family and British Empire that you couldn't go clothes shopping at 8pm on this Thursday evening, I think you have bigger problems than the Queen dying.

 

[Blue Blood]

I'm British and think there's absolutely nothing to be proud about concerning the existence of the Royal Family, their history and their continued perpetuation of corruption and colonialism. For a recent example, why did it take so long for any action to be taken on Andrew? Why does the royal family have so many state funded estates and palaces when thousands are homeless on the streets of London? Why is it "respectful" to act like the Queen and Co are any different to the rest of us? What the actual fuck is the point of knighthood? These are clichéd and generic examples, but that doesn't mean that they aren't true. 

Lizzie herself? Not so bad, all things considered. She was a pretty decent figure, and far better than Charlie has ever shown himself to be. But she upheld the monarchy in time when it had absolutely no right to exist. 

I don't care that some shops may have closed early, and I don't really care that a program I watch on BBC was cancelled tonight (likely tomorrow night too). What I do care about is that we're supposed to be in a national state of mourning for the death of the figurehead of such an outdated and rightfully unwelcome institution in the 21st century. And I've never understood why any member of the British public or indeed the "Commonwealth" (what a disgusting term that is...) should give a fuck about any of the royals. They don't deserve more respect or noteriety than the average British citizen, yet they're fawned over like Gods and are funded by us. 

Abolish the fucking monarchy. Stop acting like they're worth more than a shit stain on your knickers. Of all the things we should be proud of as a country, the institution of the monarchy sits somewhere between the crusades and slavery. 

[Danj86]

I don't think there is anything wrong with being a proud member of your country and I feel like being stuck in the past is also unhealthy. We need to learn from the past so as not to repeat the same mistakes but also not let it hold us back from doing so. Don't misunderstand the British people, I always viewed us as a cynical bunch so a good number of reactions will be like that.

But you also hit upon an important point. Some of us are worried about things that are more likely to affect us, such as the Energy Crisis. Something that will get worse as the cold sets in. People might resent the focus being moved away from that.

Also, some of us have personal reasons for being bitter about this coverage. As the nation celebrated the Platinum Jubilee, me and my family were still reeling from the news that my dad had got Liver Cancer. He had since passed away and I'm not the only person on this message board that would lose their father in the same month. I will freely admit that I harbour resentment towards the Royal family since the Queen will get weeks' worth of fuss over her life and death while the most important man in my life got a small ceremony and nothing else.

What I'm saying does make it seem like a good number of us are ultimately selfish and....I'd agree with that. People only care when it affects them personally. Mind you, I'm saying this as a cynical man. Despite all that, I do sympathise with them for their loss and so will others. I actually think those that are cynical or hate the Royal family might be in the minority. The TV ratings for stuff like Royal weddings have always been immense. (At least for the Royal family members that people like.)

[Tornado]

I feel like they probably should abolish the monarchy now that the final member of it who seemed to not be horrible has passed.

[JezMM]

6 hours ago, PaddyFancy said:

Obviously an event like this will mean a lot of blanket coverage in the news media, particularly television. It was the same during the Platinum Jubilee celebrations. Don't worry. I'm sure they will get back to the War in Ukraine, Cost of Living, Climate Change and Coronavirus dominating the agenda once this cools down. You know, things that will get you more depressed than anything else.

You're literally celebrating the supression of important information here as if the government isn't going to use this distraction to push through more shitty stuff just like they always do.  Meanwhile millions of pounds will be put into the queen's funeral and the king's coronation while the actual people they're supposed to be a symbol of hope for* are choosing between food and heat this winter.

(*Which isn't a good thing, it's just celebrity culture with bunting and little doilies, it's designed to be a distraction and it's nothing more than humouring human desire to be a part of something bigger than they are at all times).

 

6 hours ago, PaddyFancy said:

I'm sure the death of the Queen is not going to affect the vast majority of people's lives.  [...]  I think you have bigger problems than the Queen dying.

This bit you're on the money though.

(I know I took that second line out of context for a laugh so to reply fairly - I haven't seen anyone moaning about the shops being closed - I think people's complaints are far more about the oppressive news cycle, government mandated mourning period and how it misrepresents the actual lives of the UK people to the rest of the world.  Anyone in the UK who has a significantly different day today from yesterday who didn't have a personal or professional connection to the royal family are the ones who need to get their priorities checked.)

 

For what small thing it's worth, I say all this with a twinge of nostalgic sadness.  Even saying all this, I'm not immune to the propaganda, I have relatively warm feelings about the queen herself as a character on my TV screen growing up.  The various day-long events like juibiles and such throughout my life make me think of quiet bank holidays at home where I'd be just having a nice day playing while my parents and older relatives watched whatever was happening on TV.  I didn't really get why it was so interesting but like, yeah, those feelings are there.  But like... that's about the extent of it.  Ultimately those warm feelings were about my personal experience and the time spent with family, not what the government and monarchy decided was important for us.

[MetalSkulkBane]

Yeah, about those costs and "overthrowing the monarchy".

Is it fair? Not really, but as you see in the end no one loses.

[Dreadknux]

I'm glad there's a topic about this news (I didn't see anyone post this in Chit Chat so was a bit concerned the forum is dead lol), but I think the important thing to remember is that the Queen and the Royal Family means a lot of different things to a lot of different people. Social media, to be honest, has kind of ruined any chance of sensible discussion because it's an open platform for jokes and hot takes (whether agreeable or not), so it's hard to really get a cohesive feeling of the national mood.

You're right to feel the way you do about bring British and the positive things the Royal Family has done, in terms of charitable work etc. But there are lots of people, many inside the UK but definitely outside, who see the accomplishments of the Crown in a very different light. That feeling and opinion is also incredibly valid.

Honestly, the way I feel about the whole thing is that, while I'm not fan of the Royal Family/the concept of the British Empire and what it represents culturally/historically, Queen Elizabeth II probably represented herself and 'The Institution' the best she could have probably done given the slowly changing global feeling of the monarchy and its role in colonisation and everything else. She is, of course, not infallible and she has made some very curious decisions, but she was, broadly, well liked by the public and the world alike - even if those same people didn't like what she represented.

What's going to be really interesting is how things shake out now, on a worldwide scale. I have a feeling that Queen Liz's mere existence has been the sole slab of sticky tape that has held together a lot of historical/Empire-y things that are still going today... when Charles takes the Throne, I'm not sure if the house of cards will start rapidly falling apart as Commonwealth countries all take the opportunity to make a fresh start on their own. Hell, some Caribbean countries already started talking openly about independence straight to the face of visiting Royal Family members in recent years, and that was before Elizabeth passed away, so who knows how far that will escalate now.

You can, of course, grieve for the Queen if that's what you want to do. And I'm not knocking the BBC of making a meal of it for the next two weeks. But, there are a lot of people in this country who can't warm themselves up with condolences of a dead monarch, and this news will pretty much mean nothing to those living on the poverty line as they will likely have more pressing concerns to deal with.

I will say that Liz Truss' speech about the Queen's passing last night was absolutely meme-worthy though and she probably should be raked over the coals for it by the monarch-loving population. All the personality and delivery of a blow-up doll, that was.

[Blue Blood]

56 minutes ago, Dreadknux said:

I will say that Liz Truss' speech about the Queen's passing last night was absolutely meme-worthy though and she probably should be raked over the coals for it by the monarch-loving population. All the personality and delivery of a blow-up doll, that was.

I've only just watched Truss' speech now. What a boiler plate response. I didn't think anyone could be more robotic and wooden than May, but here we go. The most depressing news to come out of Britain this week is still that Truss is our new PM. Is she still an abolitionist? She was a pretty outspoken one in the past. 

Also "God save the King". I don't think anything could be by more out of touch with the modern British public than statement. The results of the religion questions in least year's s census have yet to be published, but are expected to show that less than 50% of the population is Christian now. In 2011, 39% declared "no religion".

 

"God save our energy bills"

[batson]

As a historian specifying in cultural history and the history of thought, I like to approach these things from the meaning they hold in peoples minds. To a lot of Brits and even to people in other parts of the world, Elisabeth II symbolized a sort of continuity with previous eras, and things associated with those eras, that otherwise seem far removed from most modern day people. The became queen a few short years after the end of the second world war, when Churchill was prime minister and the UK still owned an empire, and remained the foremost symbol of the UK during periods as diverse and in contrast with each other as the radical 60's, the conservative 80's and the troubled early 21st century. She's the same queen mentioned in both Monty Python scetches and Sex Pistols lyrics. The term "the Queen of England" is such an established term that to much of the worlds population, the idea of Englands reigning monarch being a queen as opposed to a king comes of as something obvious. Like, even people that don't know the queens' actual name still walk around with the idea in their heads that England and the UK having a queen as regent is just as obvious a fact as the Vatican having a Pope.

I'm sure that to a lot of people, Elisabeth's death, on a subconscious level, makes us feel even further removed from the mid 20th century, especially mid 20th century Britain and the British Empire.

[Covskin]

Even for those who don't care about the monarchy, there's an odd feeling right now because yeah, she was The Queen. She was that one constant throughout the majority of the population's lives. Even though this doesn't directly affect people's day to day lives excluding the football being cancelled, to me her death prompts a bit of reflective introspection, and a bit of "what next"?

I'll get over that feeling soon enough, its just the end of an era.

I agree it'll be interesting to see how other countries react. As Dread said, some countries were already being upfront about their feelings on the Commonwealth. Barbados left only last year. Australia may be due another referendum on the subject. Charles doesn't get the reverence Elizabeth did and I don't see anyone else in the family getting close, despite the media's best efforts with William. That's just the UK, the rest of the world won't give a stuff the same way.

Still, any movement to get rid of the monarchy will still be slow. The political old guard will be deathly afriad to even suggest it for a couple of generation's I'd wager. Anyone know what the national appetitie is like for abolition in others countires like Netherlands and Spain? Feel like Spain in particular had a change of monarch in the past few years but I won't pretend to know more than that.

 

[Wittymations]

I'm an ignorant 'Murican, but as far as I understood from reading a few articles about the royal family's powers, and other constitutional monarchies, it kinda looks like these families are largely toothless?

Like, at best, they have ceremonial powers and just have a bunch of real estate. And tax money goes to take care of them more out of tradition than any actual practical reasons.

Personally, I have no opinion on the royal family. Not a citizen of any of the nations that swear to the crown and paying more attention to our own problems in this country. Still, knowing she died was kinda, "Oh damn" for me, mostly because of how long she lived and how much of an influential figurehead she was in, at least, a social position.

[Blue Blood]

2 hours ago, Wittymations said:

I'm an ignorant 'Murican, but as far as I understood from reading a few articles about the royal family's powers, and other constitutional monarchies, it kinda looks like these families are largely toothless?

Like, at best, they have ceremonial powers and just have a bunch of real estate. And tax money goes to take care of them more out of tradition than any actual practical reasons.

Personally, I have no opinion on the royal family. Not a citizen of any of the nations that swear to the crown and paying more attention to our own problems in this country. Still, knowing she died was kinda, "Oh damn" for me, mostly because of how long she lived and how much of an influential figurehead she was in, at least, a social position.

They're not as toothless as people commonly believe. In recent years, the Queen elected to have her properties excempt from laws surrounding sustainably and environmental consideration. She also chose to exempt herself from discrimination laws surrounding employment, which means that the crown is allowed to discriminate who it hires based on the grounds of sex, gender, ethnicity, sexual orientation etc. These were bills and laws written up in Parliament that the Queen then chose to change of her own volition.

The monarchy largely keeps to itself these days. The Queen wouldn't choose to block any laws from coming into effect (and I'm not sure how much she could have), but she was able to tweak things entirely to her own benefit. That's the definition of corruption. 

And I mean, paying to cover up your son's repeated sexual assaults using taxpayers money is also pretty damn corrupt. 

[Wittymations]

6 hours ago, Blue Blood said:

They're not as toothless as people commonly believe. In recent years, the Queen elected to have her properties excempt from laws surrounding sustainably and environmental consideration. She also chose to exempt herself from discrimination laws surrounding employment, which means that the crown is allowed to discriminate who it hires based on the grounds of sex, gender, ethnicity, sexual orientation etc. These were bills and laws written up in Parliament that the Queen then chose to change of her own volition.

The monarchy largely keeps to itself these days. The Queen wouldn't choose to block any laws from coming into effect (and I'm not sure how much she could have), but she was able to tweak things entirely to her own benefit. That's the definition of corruption. 

And I mean, paying to cover up your son's repeated sexual assaults using taxpayers money is also pretty damn corrupt. 

 

I did read that they were basically "above the law" so to speak. Sounds like they can really just ignore any laws surrounding their own business. It didn't look like they had any lawmaking powers. Though I think I saw something about them being allowed to select new prime ministers at will. Which is a pretty big deal, if so.

 

I'm not really privy on UK political positions. Doesn't seem like they're elected by the people, but chosen by the lower legislation chamber's majority party.

[batson]

On 9/10/2022 at 8:08 AM, Wittymations said:

I did read that they were basically "above the law" so to speak.

It's the same wih our swedish king. Legaly, he literally cant commit a crime, because he is above the law. Some years ago he was stopped by police for speeding in his car, but once the policemen saw that it was the king that they had stopped they had to simply let him go without a ticket or anything. Technically, the king could commit murder and the law would be unable to touch him.

[Conando]

Being the descendent of Irish Diaspora, from THAT time, I can't say I care for The Monarchy. But it is pretty crazy to see Twitter abuzz with pointing the finger at the MODERN monarchy, which always seemed to me to be like celebrities more than anything. I say let people mourn if they want to.

Did not know they entirely above the law though which is insane. I also heard something about Doctor and Hospital appointments being cancelled because of the funeral. Which...no, don't do that; she's dead what does she care.