Cultural differences in Sonic Adaptations.

[Kuzu]

So anyone that has any real history about this series is aware of how many different interpretations of Sonic there have been, as far back as the 90's up until today with the recent movies and upcoming Sonic Prime show. We've had our SATAM's, AOSTH, Underground, OVA, Sonic X, etc etc etc. And while these properties might superficially resemble each other in that they're all adaptations of Sonic, they all have their own cultural differences in how they interpret the world and characters. If you only play the games and don't watch shows or comics, you might have seen something similar with Sonic CD and how that game has a different OST for it's North American release compared to what Japan and Europe got. 

I don't wanna lose my point, so I'll point out the first real division in how the West and East interpreted Sonic differently. 

 

YUP, SATAM and the OVA. I could go into a million differences between these two properties, but I'll keep it focused on Sonic himself for the sake of time. Right off the bat, SATAM!Sonic is obviously much more prone to being obnoxious to others and showing off, but he does have his moments of vulnerability and letting his guard down (particularly around Sally) while OVA!Sonic feels much more aloof and distant to me, not to the same degree as Sonic X (we'll get there eventually) but still a very notable amount. Can anyone really imagine Sonic's modern depictions being so dismissive of Tails?  

I already know someone who is a much bigger fan of either of these adaptations is going to correct me on "misinformation", but I'm literally just giving my own thoughts on the matter. I appreciate clarification, but please try not to be obnoxious because I am very much aware of the landmine I'm setting by opening this topic.  But this has been on my mind lately and why so many different versions of Sonic (and the rest of the cast) can feel very "off", even if they superficially resemble each other and how some of that can be down to cultural differences and what not. The cultural differences are what I'm mostly interested in mainly. 

You can talk about any adaptation here; IDW, Archie, Movie. Flynn's interpretations, Penders' interpretations, Evan Stanley's, etc etc. Nothing is off limits here, just don't be a jackass please. 

[Dr. Mechano]

What I find interesting is that "Western Sonic" really isn't a singular interpretation in and of itself. AoStH Sonic is way different from SatAM Sonic, and I don't just mean because he's a master of disguise or that he's more prone to slapstick than his Saturday morning counterpart. No, despite his zanier antics, I think that AoStH Sonic is the single most emotionally mature of any version of Sonic - east or west - bar none.

While the versions of Sonic from SatAM, Underground, Archie, and especially Fleetway were prone to occasionally lashing out at his friends and allies, or acting rashly by leaping into action without considering the consequences, I always felt AoStH Sonic acted less like an emotional teenager and more like a levelheaded adult who had his whole life together. This is especially evident in how he interacts with Tails - acting not just as Tails's friend, but as his role model and even as a sort of caretaker and surrogate family for him. He's always offering valuable life lessons, trying to set a good example, and in general being uplifting and supportive however he can. In turn, he encourages others to be emotionally open as well, even being comfortable telling his close friends that he loves them.

On the surface, AoStH Sonic and SatAM Sonic have some similarities. The rad 90s 'tude and the catchphrases and the cockiness are all there, but SatAM Sonic feels a lot more volatile and a bit more insecure - frequently cutting others down (mostly Antoine) or brushing off the concerns of his friends (mostly Sally). I'm not saying these character flaws are bad, mind you - flaws make a character interesting when done well, so I'm not complaining about them. But you could almost argue that AoStH Sonic and SatAM Sonic's differences are a product of their circumstances; The former is a celebrated super hero who lives in a time of relative peace, while the latter has been exiled to the woods and lost his childhood home and family. Of course SatAM Sonic is going to have it less all together than AoStH Sonic does, so his somewhat pricklier demeanor is at least understandable.

Still, for my money, I like AoStH Sonic the most out of all the early western interpretations. He's the closest to his game counterpart, and he just seems like an upbeat, likable, cool guy to be around.

[Kuzu]

Didn't think too much about that AOSTH comparison, but I can see and understand that actually given the circumstances. 

The whole show revolves around Sonic and Tails, and since Tails is basically a toddler there, of course Sonic has to be way more emotionally mature than usual.

It changes their dynamic from surrogate siblings to surrogate parent and child. Sonic is literally Tails' parental guardian in AOSTH and I never really thought about it.

[Cuz]

The different shades of Sonic and Robotnik throughout this franchise history is one of the things that draws me to the particular characters. The parental relationship of Sonic to Tails is one of them. The dismisall of Tails in the OVA shows more of a bickering sibling relationship.

I don't know if I'd call this different aspects "off" they're like different facets of a gems I'd say.

[StaticMania]

21 hours ago, Kuzu said:

...and since Tails is basically a toddler there...

Tails is 4 in AOSTH, yet as a character is only slightly less capable than Video Game Tails.

Tails is 10 in SatAM and is even less capable than the one we've had since Sonic Unleashed.

[Dr. Mechano]

1 hour ago, StaticMania said:

Tails is 4 in AOSTH, yet as a character is only slightly less capable than Video Game Tails.

Tails is 10 in SatAM and is even less capable than the one we've had since Sonic Unleashed.

This is true. SatAM Tails was not much of an adventurer, with the Freedom Fighters getting most of the focus as Sonic's support on the field. What's more, the two versions of Tails handled his genius pretty differently too.

AoStH Tails retained his game counterpart's penchant for machines, though the show only highlighted it every now and then. He created a flying machine, a weaponized robot, and a few other contraptions here and there. It was nice, since a lot of the early spinoff stuff (including Archie for a while) kinda glossed over Tails being a genius.

That said, SatAM did seem to be correcting course toward the very end of the show. In the episode "Drood Henge," Tails hacks open an electronic security door, with the explanation that Sally's been teaching him off-screen. Perhaps they planned for Tails to be more technically inclined  (and perhaps more active on the field) like his game self in the cancelled third season.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

All this time I did NOT know Tails was 10 in SatAM.

I thought he was still 4 in that show like in AoSTH.

[Mega]

Yeah, SatAM Tails is 10, but depicted more like a "normal" 10 year old than the super genius he's normally known to be. Season 2 does show him getting more involved, with training missions and the aforementioned Drood henge. They wanted to do more, but the Antoine shorts cut down on the time they had. u_u

[Kuzu]

There's a real funny sense of irony where four year old Tails is somewhat more competent than 10 year old Tails. 

[Natie]

I think Sonic in the 90's basically was a litmus test for how media in both regions interpret "attitude".

A cool character in america is a loud, showboating, athletic guy who thinks highly of himself and isn't afraid to show it. A cool character in Japan, if all these anime and games are any indication, is a reserved, too-cool-to-care lone wolf who does things their own way at their own pace no matter what anyone says.

They ended up kinda fusing the two together by the point of Adventure, but it really varies based on installment.

[StaticMania]

1 hour ago, Natie said:

...is a reserved...

This doesn't describe Sonic in the OVA at all...

[Kuzu]

Sonic is pretty aloof in the OVA actually. Sure, he's not stoic or anything, but he certainly comes off as more reserved and grounded compared to the American cartoons.

[Dr. Mechano]

7 hours ago, Natie said:

A cool character in Japan, if all these anime and games are any indication, is a reserved, too-cool-to-care lone wolf who does things their own way at their own pace no matter what anyone says.

I feel like both kinds of cool are appreciated in Japan, granted.

Lupin III is one of those classic "cool" anime characters, and he's a loudmouthed attention-seeking slapstick monkey-man. The total opposite of "reserved."

The series usually knows when to dial it back for more dramatic moments, but his default state is egotistical showoff.

[Osmium]

OVA Sonic is pretty much as close as we'll ever see as to what the original Japanese incarnation of Sonic was supposed to act like. He's relatively rude and self-serving, as is described in the Original Story. He's described there as a "very independent guy who is mostly interested in doing his own thing", which sounds like how he acts in the OVA. He's also described as "he is _not_ a 'do-gooding' hero", which we see when he declines to help Eggman since it's not his problem and it takes several bouts of begging for him to even lift a finger. 

Sonic being relatively aloof has been there since the very beginning of Sonic as a chracter. In the Sonic 2 JP manual, when Tails first appears and disappears, Sonic basically couldn't care less. Having a short temper was a part of Sonic's Japanese character as well, which the OVA shows off well at the beginning.

The "bickering sibling" relationship between Sonic and Tails here is one of my favourites of them all, as Sonic isn't afraid to yell at Tails and Tails isn't afraid to shoot back. He seems to treat Tails as more like an equal with his own strengths than just as a little sibling or sidekick. I find it much more realistic and interesting than the standard "ultra protective and supportive of my favourite little bro Tails" portrayal most other media has. 

[Kuzu]

2 hours ago, Dr. Mechano said:

I feel like both kinds of cool are appreciated in Japan, granted.

Lupin III is one of those classic "cool" anime characters, and he's a loudmouthed attention-seeking slapstick monkey-man. The total opposite of "reserved."

The series usually knows when to dial it back for more dramatic moments, but his default state is egotistical showoff.

Lupin is also from the 70's and is technically still a villain. A lot of things were bit more wild back then

 

[Muglés]

8 hours ago, Kuzu said:

Lupin is also from the 70's and is technically still a villain. A lot of things were bit more wild back then

Yeah, I feel like the big difference between characters like Lupin and Sonic is that Sonic is meant to be a role model whereas Lupin is not. Lupin is sly, lecherous, doesn't respect boundaries, and is a bad guy despite being the protagonist. Lupin is worth admiring at times when he does something cool, but he's not someone you should look up to, like at all.

I think Sonic uses his ego as a way to communicate that everything will be okay and at times it can look like he's overconfident. Sometimes he'll seem immature, especially when taunting his enemies, but he does it for fun anyway. Seems like he likes being quippy, in a Spider-Man kind of way.

[Natie]

On 9/12/2022 at 7:19 AM, Dr. Mechano said:

I feel like both kinds of cool are appreciated in Japan, granted.

Lupin III is one of those classic "cool" anime characters, and he's a loudmouthed attention-seeking slapstick monkey-man. The total opposite of "reserved."

The series usually knows when to dial it back for more dramatic moments, but his default state is egotistical showoff.

Oh totally, I think modern Sonic in japan went a lot more towards that "Cheerful Anime Vagabond" shtick.

On 9/12/2022 at 9:28 AM, Kuzu said:

Lupin is also from the 70's and is technically still a villain.

Some installments really skirt that line, but generally yes.

[Guergy]

It is interesting that American Sonic is edgier than his Japanese counterpart. Even his European counterpart is worse than his Amercian counterpart.

[Fieryfurnace]

Different writers have different sensibilities and preferences regardless of the country they come from anyhow. I've never agreed with making broad generalizations about the writing of Sonic in one country versus another with "it reflects the cultural values of Japan" or "it reflects the cultural values of America". We've had so many different American Sonics from different writers with different personalities and traits. It's more useful to talk about individual writers and their intentions and circumstances, rather than one homogenous "American Sonic" which doesn't exist and has never existed. There are other Japanese Sonics too, like Nicky.

I'd also like to correct a bit of misinformation in this thread regarding SatAM Tails. SatAM Tails is not 10. At least, not in the pilot episode or Season 1. He IS ten in Season 2, but Season 2 acts as a 'soft reboot' of the SatAM continuity and changes a lot more than just Tails' age. This information is very obscure, because his age is never directly stated in Season 1 or the pilot. But it is directly stated in Season 2 ("Sonic, he's 10 years old!" "So what? I was doing solo missions when I was 10!"), so the immediate assumption is, naturally, that he was supposed to be 10 in Season 1 and the pilot as well, where he's characterised differently. But this isn't the case. Understanding Tails' portrayal in SatAM is easier when you understand the circumstances behind the scenes during the show's production.

All SatAM pilot material describes Tails as four years old. The SatAM Series Bible (11th of March 1992 revision) made for the pilot episode "Heads or Tails" has this dialogue from Tails: "Howdy. My name's Tails. I'm four and a half years old, almost four and three-quarters. That's big." The SatAM character document sent by DIC to Archie Comics writer Michael Gallagher when he was writing Issue #0 of the comic describes Tails as a "fat baby fox" who "won't stop sucking his thumb! (He's only four years old)". The "Heads or Tails" pilot would later air as episode 13 of Season 1.

The revision of the SatAM Series Bible made for Season 1 (10th of March 1993) keeps Tails' dialogue about his age but slightly changes it: "Hi. My name's Tails. I'm four and a half years old, almost four and three-quarters. That's big." ("Howdy" to "hi" because Tails had a southern accent in that early pilot bible). But this Series Bible, for whatever reason, retains many elements that don't end up in the final show or even the pilot (like Tails wearing a cowboy hat and the Roboticizer being called the "Veg-O Machine", which would be included in Sonic Spinball.) The more convincing source of SatAM Tails' age in Season 1 are the certificates of authenticity issued directly by DIC to people who bought cels of SatAM's final opening in 1993. On those certificates, Tails is described as "a five year old fox with Sonic aspirations". And, really, all you have to do is watch Season 1 to see that Tails is being written as a five year old and not a ten year old. When he's asking Sally for the "funny kiss" and getting angry that she won't do the scary witch voice when she [well, her doppelganger] is reading him a bedtime story. When he calls the Freedom Fighters "grown-ups" despite them being teenagers. He's clearly being written as a small child. 

When Ben Hurst was brought on as lead script writer and one of three main story editors for Season 2 (he had no involvement in the pilot, and minimal involvement in Season 1) he watched every episode of Season 1 in a single night all in a row, then decided to conduct an "analysis of what was good, what was bad, worked and what didn’t, what characters needed to be tweaked." Tails' age and an increase in his agency and involvement for Season 2 was one of those "tweaks". Ben Hurst wanted to develop Tails into an "adolescent fully fledged Freedom Fighter". So Tails' age was bumped up to 10 and he's written older [he's embarrassed by Sally kissing him on the cheek now, like an older child would be, and his dialogue in general is much less childlike]. But Hurst tried not to ignore Tails' character in Season 1 entirely - he wanted Tails' development into a more active member to feel natural. So he has Sonic take Tails on "solo training missions." Sally teaches him tech off screen; he disables an eye-spy camera and hacks one of Robotnik's power stations. He comes up with the idea of using a fake power stone to trick Robotnik. In a deleted scene, Tails builds a trap to capture Sonic as practice, and gets discouraged when Sonic zips right through. Ben Hurst said that one of his "greatest regrets" with Season 2 is that a lot of his development for Tails was lost when ABC mandated two comedy focused episodes centering on Antoine, and for time, Tails' role in the final episode Doomsday Project was completely cut.

Tails being ten was a Season 2 retcon, but unlike most Season 2 retcons, it isn't immediately obvious that there was a conscious decision made to change his age because it wasn't previously stated in the show itself. It's sort of like Antoine's name being changed from Antoine D'Coolette to Antoine Depardieu - it doesn't directly contradict Season 1, because he never said his full name there, but we know that was his original name from production materials.

[Guergy]

It kind of makes me wonder how Season 3 of SATAM would have turned out? But that is a story for another time. I also notice that some of the American Sonic's are snarkier than the other Sonic's.