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Kishimoto Hopes Sonic Frontiers Will Take Sonic Team to the Top of the Gaming Industry


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This gonna be cynical, but I'm not entirely sure I trust Kishimoto. Guess this is a "I'll believe it when I see it" thing. It's mainly the first bit that's raising red flags.

Edited by Dreadknux
Please make sure new news gets a new thread.
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This is the right attitude to have. Even if Kishimoto has proven mediocre in the past, at least he's keeping the right attitude towards prior failure: your next project should be bigger.

And while I doubt Frontiers will accomplish that, (the game still seems a little too jank to me), it is stepping in the right direction that maybe a second project can do it good.

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This "second generation" of Sonic mentioned in the TSS article began in 1998. Is Kishimoto telling us that it took Sonic Team a quarter of a century to figure out that they should try making a game actually deserving of respect for its creators?

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Despite the attitude of the OP post, this is honestly a good mentality for the devs to have.

It's certainly the most ambitious-looking Sonic game in a while, and they should be striving to do their best as well.

It's even gone to the lengths that Iizuka stood off against higher management to give this game, the time it needs:

 

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9 minutes ago, Cosmos Rogue said:

This "second generation" of Sonic mentioned in the TSS article began in 1998. Is Kishimoto telling us that it took Sonic Team a quarter of a century to figure out that they should try making a game actually deserving of respect for its creators?

If you twist his words, you can make him say anything. 

Actually, all Sonic games were bad until this one, because now he says he wants the game to be good. 

EDIT: Between this and the OP "not trusting Kishimoto," it's like damn, y'all really don't want to see these developers as people, huh.  Just evil devils who INTENTIONALLY make bad Sonic games.

But it's pretty obvious that the "generations" is a reference to the differences in gameplay styles, which I only disagree with because the Adventure titles and Boost games are distinctly their own generations; Frontiers is more like the fourth generation.

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I have nothing to say about this. It's a marketing statement. Obviously they're putting more stock in this one, it's the bigger more expensive one that's been in development way longer. You could sort of consider Lost World and Forces to be analogous to Heroes and Shadow, both smaller more economical games between the big experimental ones of SA2 and 06. The difference, of course, is that there were years of bullshit between Heroes and now, and so a statement like "we're trying to put Sonic back on the map forever" or whatever makes sense if you're trying to get people interested in your product.

The game looks fine. I'm sure it will be no worse than anything else they've given us in the last fifteen years, but I think they're still going about it wrong.

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Them considering Adventure, Boost, and this the same generation, and previous comments that the Adventure gameplay would be a step back really makes me wonder what a Sonic Adventure 3 would like for Iizuka.

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Every developer should be looking to put the industry on notice with every game that is not a cash grab. No body should be setting out to make just another videogame. That's someone's baby. You want it to shine. You want people to love it as much as you love the vision of it in your head. 

 

The problem with many devs these days is that they will play it safe, they will refuse to innovate and they will sit back and still rake in the dosh regardless. 

 

I have no problem with the mindset with K here. Its healthy and appropriate. Its also nice to see Iziuka holding back corporate. That's something we know has burned the franchise in the past. 

 

Good signs. But you gotta deliver on the end result. Its all PR lip service if the game quality still falls flat on its face. 

 

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Just now, Razule said:

Them considering Adventure, Boost, and this the same generation, and previous comments that the Adventure gameplay would be a step back really makes me wonder what a Sonic Adventure 3 would like for Iizuka.

Well,  we certainly do know he wants to make one. Granted, this is just Kishimoto's saying.

Doesn't really put things completely into Iizuka's perspective. 

1 minute ago, Sega DogTagz said:

I have no problem with the mindset with K here. Its healthy and appropriate. Its also nice to see Iziuka holding back corporate. That's something we know has burned the franchise in the past. 

Good signs. But you gotta deliver on the end result. Its all PR lip service if the game quality still falls flat on its face. 

Pretty much. They've set the stage for a slam dunk,  but they can't afford to trip at the finish line with a shoddy product.

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Just now, Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon said:

Doesn't really put things completely into Iizuka's perspective. 

Yeah, but I recall him saying something similar about 3D Sonic games before, too. 

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I don't really think it's a sad hope, or marketing fluff. Everything we've seen from Frontiers - in terms of scope at least - indicates that SEGA and Sonic Team have been making a concise effort to try to make this a big triple A game again. We went from Forces very much being treated as a simple budget title, with a heavily reduced price and a scope to match it, with the game not even being big enough to get much major news at any kind of events, and if it did get any kind of brand tie-in or news, it was through small events, random internet drops, or the most bizarre brand and promotion deals ever.

Frontiers on the other hand has been showing up at many big events throughout the year, each with a fairly new piece of info when we've seen it shown up, it's being treated as a full scale release, with a supposed playtime and large scale to match, and the reveals and such is being treated as a fairly hot commodity (Both IGN and Geoff making a decent deal of having Frontiers reveals). If Frontiers will achieve this goal or not, I can't really say, but I do think it's incredibly evident this is what both SEGA and Sonic Team have been angling for. 

And in all honesty, I think that's a good thing. I would prefer both teams wanting to treat Sonic as a big deal, and putting in effort to match, as opposed to what we had over the last few years where the franchise was essentially being treated as a smaller budget franchise that had lower price points and reduced scope. To push this whole narrative shows some level of faith being put into Sonic again as a brand and franchise, and a want to push it further and see it grow, especially with the movies throwing him right back into the public spotlight again. I honestly wouldn't mind seeing this go well.

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The parts of the interview reiterating that the wait was so long because of constant trial and error sets off major red flags to me, but I can respect Kishimoto at least attempting to fill the role he's setting for the game and himself. If Frontiers fails this, though... let's just say I'm with SEGA's higher ups in the concern department; it shouldn't take that long to figure out how to implement good game design.

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11 minutes ago, NoKaine said:

If you twist his words, you can make him say anything. 

Actually, all Sonic games were bad until this one, because now he says he wants the game to be good. 

EDIT: Between this and the OP "not trusting Kishimoto," it's like damn, y'all really don't want to see these developers as people, huh.  Just evil devils who INTENTIONALLY make bad Sonic games.

But it's pretty obvious that the "generations" is a reference to the differences in gameplay styles, which I only disagree with because the Adventure titles and Boost games are distinctly their own generations; Frontiers is more like the fourth generation.

Pretty bold of you to accuse me of twisting Kishimoto's words then conclude that I think of Sonic Team as "evil devils".

Yes, Sonic Team wanting to make a great game is the right mindset for them to have here. It is also true that it should go without saying that that is any developers' goal in making a video game. It is only noteworthy here because so many Sonic games have been of poor quality in the past, including the last two developed by Sonic Team... both of which were directed by Kishimoto.

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13 minutes ago, The Deleter said:

let's just say I'm with SEGA's higher ups in the concern department; it shouldn't take that long to figure out how to implement good game design.

You cannot actually think that SEGA wanted the game out because it "shouldn't take that long," especially when they just rushed Origins (which, by the way, had Sonic Team's involvement despite them also making Frontiers), which came with more bugs than it should have considering that Headcannon literally made their career making and remaking the classic Sonic games.

And games take as long as they need to be made, there is no arbitrary amount of time a game "should" be made, unless Tears of the Kingdom is also garbage, and that is a game based on a game that we know is good, unlike Frontiers, which is uncharted territory for Sonic Team. 

8 minutes ago, Cosmos Rogue said:

It is only noteworthy here because so many Sonic games have been of poor quality in the past, including the last two developed by Sonic Team... both of which were directed by Kishimoto.

It should go without saying, which is why Kishimoto saying it speaks to his confidence in the game. No, it doesn't mean that the game will definitely be good, but it also doesn't mean that he thinks the other games were somehow bad.

All it means is that he wants this game to be good and he thinks this game will be good, and it's wild but not unexpected of the Sonic fanbase to try to extrapolate more from that. 

I believe that he really wants to make good. Why shouldn't I? Doesn't mean it will. But just because it can be bad doesn't mean they didn't try. Doesn't mean that all the games that were bad is because he didn't try.

Especially when the interview is paired with Iizuka stating he had to fight to get the game the time it needs. You would think with this interview and Stealth's comments that more of this board will realize that maybe, just maybe, much of the mediocre aspects of Sonic Team's games aren't down to them being incompetent dummies who don't like Sonic, but like Frontiers, we'll see.

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I’m gonna need Sonic Team to put their money where their mouth is come release date but after a game like Forces where everyone involved felt like they were on cruise control and making a game that felt like it was fed through a computer to attempt to appeal to the most demographics possible without a hint of artistic merit or just plain old “giving a shit”ery….yeah this is nice to hear

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Sonic Frontiers has the potential to be succesful; it seems to be more polished than most of the previous games, and they put a lot more effort than usual into it.

Probably it won't bring Sonic Team to the top despite what Kishimoto thinks, but it could increase their reputation and give them some more visibility in the general gaming scene. The gameplay concept is too weak IMO for it to be considered a top game though, and the problems are at the core of the game design, so there's nothing that can be done without restarting the development from scratch.

Bowser's fury but larger is what Sonic needed in order to become "open zone", not to be transformed into an hack'n'slash wannabe.

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I mean, it's good to aim high. Personally I don't see a timeline where this game gets anything higher than an 8/10 but it is great to see that they have that much faith in the project.

But talk is cheap. We'll see what's what in November.

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Sonic Team doesn't need to be at the top of the industry, and I'm not sure they should. I'd like to remove all vestiges of the social contagion that is Sonic discussion outside the Sonic fanbase, but the path there is not to make the biggest craziest Sonic game ever. It's to just not be embarrassing for like a solid decade. The games can all be 6/10s if they want, just don't have horrendous crippling problems and we can finally have more legitimate cross-fandom discourse.

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26 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

Should they? It's not necessarily wrong to aim high, but I don't think there's anything wrong with aiming to make good games that a bunch of people like, without looking to set the world on fire. Not everyone can be on top, and doing solid work in your niche is still plenty respectable.

.

Depends on your expectations. Like it or not, people do see Sonic as a AAA franchise along with the likes of Zelda and Mario, even if the quality doesn't even come close. But the fact remains is that the Sonic brand is extremely popular and people want the products to reflect that. Had Sonic just been a dime a dozen series, it wouldn't have the expectations it does, but here we are.

 

 

I'm gonna be completely neutral about this interview. I'm glad they seem to actually have confidence in this brand again after a decade of going through the motions, but I don't necessarily think they have the chops to accomplish what they're trying to go for here and we have two decades of games to go on. So, all we can do is wait now.

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27 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

Should they? It's not necessarily wrong to aim high, but I don't think there's anything wrong with aiming to make good games that a bunch of people like, without looking to set the world on fire. Not everyone can be on top, and doing solid work in your niche is still plenty respectable.

That's usually the MO of most licensed games, and everyone loves them for it. 

 

6 minutes ago, Iko said:

Sonic Frontiers has the potential to be succesful; it seems to be more polished than most of the previous games, and they put a lot more effort than usual into it.

Probably it won't bring Sonic Team to the top despite what Kishimoto thinks, but it could increase their reputation and give them some more visibility in the general gaming scene. The gameplay concept is too weak IMO for it to be considered a top game though, and the problems are at the core of the game design, so there's nothing that can be done without restarting the development from scratch.

Bowser's fury but larger is what Sonic needed in order to become "open zone", not to be transformed into an hack'n'slash wannabe.

I think as long as the game is just good then it already has bumped itself up. And if it's popular in Japan, maybe more SEGA devs will be attracted to work on Sonic and SoJ will consistently give better budgets and realistic timeframes. 

Frankly, if this is successful, this may also mean that Izuka was right in keeping the execs off Sonic Team's backs and strong armings won't be necessary in the future. The execs will just trust the direction. 

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2 minutes ago, Shaddy Zaphod said:

Sonic Team doesn't need to be at the top of the industry, and I'm not sure they should. I'd like to remove all vestiges of the social contagion that is Sonic discussion outside the Sonic fanbase, but the path there is not to make the biggest craziest Sonic game ever. It's to just not be embarrassing for like a solid decade. The games can all be 6/10s if they want, just don't have horrendous crippling problems and we can finally have more legitimate cross-fandom discourse.

I mean....we've been getting nothing but that since 2012. The games stopped being messes, but they also stopped doing anything interesting too.

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