Thoughts on SEGA unifying the Sonic brand

[BreezedPast]

I think unifying the brand might be somewhat necessary, it's just about how much we're unifying the brand. As a comic book fan, sometimes there's nothing worse than tying in characters to their movie versions unless the movie version just 100% is an improvement. With Sonic, it feels as though it's a little more complicated than that, we're getting things like Sonic's fighting style in Frontiers taking from the films, referencing the speed lightning, all that kind of stuff. What can you do otherwise? I'm all for there being different takes on Sonic but at some point you need to keep things close, at least after a meh streak like Sonic has had recently. Now, do I dislike some of these mandates? Oh, certainly, Sonic being samey will be a problem if it starts being bad. But again, I don't see many solutions as of right now. I think personally the key is going to be to play along, test the edges of what you can do with this consolidation. 

[Guergy]

It seems like unifying the franchise is both a blessing and a curse especially when dealing with different continuities. Do not get me wrong, I think it is in SEGA's purview to do that but I also think that it is a double-edged sword. 

[Talia the Wolf]

Uhhh! I would have thought that this would have a very obvious answer, but I'll give you mine anyways.

YES! I am very happy they are trying to expand the Sonic brand. I am ecstatic! I am over the edge! Yes! I am cause that means a lot more Sonic stuff for me to Love. I am a huge Sonic freak of course I would like it. I LOVE anything Sonic! Yes, I am very happy they are trying to expand the Sonic brand.

[Rabbitearsblog]

On 10/26/2022 at 7:32 AM, Talia the Wolf said:

Uhhh! I would have thought that this would have a very obvious answer, but I'll give you mine anyways.

YES! I am very happy they are trying to expand the Sonic brand. I am ecstatic! I am over the edge! Yes! I am cause that means a lot more Sonic stuff for me to Love. I am a huge Sonic freak of course I would like it. I LOVE anything Sonic! Yes, I am very happy they are trying to expand the Sonic brand.

While I do like the fact that they are trying to expand on the Sonic brand, I do worry about how they will handle the Sonic brand from this point forward and will they at least be willing to compromise with other people in bringing the Sonic brand to other types of media like comic books and movies in much smoother way?

[Talia the Wolf]

4 hours ago, Rabbitearsblog said:

While I do like the fact that they are trying to expand on the Sonic brand, I do worry about how they will handle the Sonic brand from this point forward and will they at least be willing to compromise with other people in bringing the Sonic brand to other types of media like comic books and movies in much smoother way?

I agree! It's nerve racking when you really just sit and think about what the heck they are going to do with it. I just hope they don't ruin it. I LOVE Sonic!

[Rabbitearsblog]

1 hour ago, Talia the Wolf said:

I agree! It's nerve racking when you really just sit and think about what the heck they are going to do with it. I just hope they don't ruin it. I LOVE Sonic!

Me too!  Sonic is now in a better place than it ever was before.  I just hope that SEGA doesn't ruin that.

[Fieryfurnace]

The topic of brand consistency in Sonic isn't a new discussion, but before ~2017 it was more of a hypothetical idea. With all the talk of SatAM in this thread, I thought it would be interesting to post the thoughts of Ben Hurst here. Ben Hurst was a script writer for a single episode in Season 1 of SatAM, then was upgraded to one of three main story editors and main script writer for Season 2. He was the only story editor to stay "in contact" with the Sonic fanbase after the show's cancellation, corresponding with fans via email and answering questions at SAGE until his death in 2010.

Here are a collection of his comments relating to this topic in 2005 and 2006 (for context, around the release of Shadow the Hedgehog and 06):

"I think there is a lack of continuity in Sega's marketing. And they need to take a broad overview of where they've been, and put some real work into planning out where they're going. It seems to me like they're always shot-gunning semi-related ideas. Very corporate - not creative." "I created the background continuity [of SatAM] which was dramatically different from Sega's - and Len Janson defended our continuity against them, because he felt it was better." "[Sega] did have a continuity, but it was not clearly articulated and pardon the expression, it didn't 'hang together.' Even fantasy worlds have to make sense." 

"Well, the issue with Sonic continuity is that there have been so many incarnations. And I think ongoing stories work well. But they have to be carefully planned out in advance." "[There is a] lack of vision and planning at the upper levels of Sega. In any series, you need one person in charge." "As for SatAM characters making cameos in [Spinball] - that was completely done away from me. I had no knowledge or involvement. I sound like a politician... That just illustrates my point about the need for one person to be in charge of a character-driven series. Then, cognitive decisions can be made about important issues - and can be applied to all incarnations such as games, comics, movies, etc."

Again, Hurst had no involvement in pre-production and very little involvement in Season 1, so he knew nothing about the early creative process for the show or Sega's involvement before Season 2. I do think it's interesting that he calls Sega (of America?)'s 90s continuity "not clearly articulated" and incoherent - the lack of meaningful direction from Sega to licensees about the brand in the 90s is well-known. I suppose if he was alive now, he would agree with the direction Sega is taking in streamlining the brand, despite his dedication to SatAM.

[Rini]

2 hours ago, Fieryfurnace said:

The topic of brand consistency in Sonic isn't a new discussion, but before ~2017 it was more of a hypothetical idea. With all the talk of SatAM in this thread, I thought it would be interesting to post the thoughts of Ben Hurst here. Ben Hurst was a script writer for a single episode in Season 1 of SatAM, then was upgraded to one of three main story editors and main script writer for Season 2. He was the only story editor to stay "in contact" with the Sonic fanbase after the show's cancellation, corresponding with fans via email and answering questions at SAGE until his death in 2010.

Here are a collection of his comments relating to this topic in 2005 and 2006 (for context, around the release of Shadow the Hedgehog and 06):

"I think there is a lack of continuity in Sega's marketing. And they need to take a broad overview of where they've been, and put some real work into planning out where they're going. It seems to me like they're always shot-gunning semi-related ideas. Very corporate - not creative." "I created the background continuity [of SatAM] which was dramatically different from Sega's - and Len Janson defended our continuity against them, because he felt it was better." "[Sega] did have a continuity, but it was not clearly articulated and pardon the expression, it didn't 'hang together.' Even fantasy worlds have to make sense." 

"Well, the issue with Sonic continuity is that there have been so many incarnations. And I think ongoing stories work well. But they have to be carefully planned out in advance." "[There is a] lack of vision and planning at the upper levels of Sega. In any series, you need one person in charge." "As for SatAM characters making cameos in [Spinball] - that was completely done away from me. I had no knowledge or involvement. I sound like a politician... That just illustrates my point about the need for one person to be in charge of a character-driven series. Then, cognitive decisions can be made about important issues - and can be applied to all incarnations such as games, comics, movies, etc."

Again, Hurst had no involvement in pre-production and very little involvement in Season 1, so he knew nothing about the early creative process for the show or Sega's involvement before Season 2. I do think it's interesting that he calls Sega (of America?)'s 90s continuity "not clearly articulated" and incoherent - the lack of meaningful direction from Sega to licensees about the brand in the 90s is well-known. I suppose if he was alive now, he would agree with the direction Sega is taking in streamlining the brand, despite his dedication to SatAM.

This isn't necessarily on topic, but sometimes I like some things from Japanese Sonic a bit more than American (I'm an overall Sonic fan though) This is just my opinion, but I felt like some Sonic media written by Americans feel like a soap opera or something like that. That may be some people's taste and hey more power to them, that's just my (crappy) taste.

[Rabbitearsblog]

3 hours ago, Rini said:

This isn't necessarily on topic, but sometimes I like some things from Japanese Sonic a bit more than American (I'm an overall Sonic fan though) This is just my opinion, but I felt like some Sonic media written by Americans feel like a soap opera or something like that. That may be some people's taste and hey more power to them, that's just my (crappy) taste.

Honestly, I don't mind where the stories come from in the Sonic the Hedgehog franchise.  Even though I grew up mostly with the stories from the American side of things, I don't mind seeing different interpretations of Sonic as long as they are well written.  I guess my concern about SEGA unifying the brand is will the stories be well written?

[Guergy]

I agree with this. The thing is, SEGA will not allow that to happen as they only have one vision concerning Sonic. Sonic is many things to many fans but it seems as though SEGA will allow that to happen. I like most incarnations of Sonic but I really wish that SEGA will allow those incarnations to exist.

[Scritch the Cat]

On 10/7/2022 at 1:23 AM, Starnik said:

Salty? I would be annoyed if outsiders hijacker’s my creation too.

Of course you would!  Just about everyone is going to sympathize with individuals who want to fight for their opinions because people tend to project their own opinions onto such people.  But the reality is that people's opinions differ immensely from each other, and thus, being uncompromisingly devoted to one's own ideals tends to produce things that don't have wide appeal to many people who disagree.  And on that note, as much as people want to put this into some trite narrative about art vs capitalism, reading or watching just about any retrospective on Sonic's creation should make it clear that such a conflict never existed with Sonic; this series was always the creation of capitalists brainstorming how to pitch a new mascot game at the lowest common denominator, and any disagreements between them were solely on how best to hit that lowest common denominator..

And come to that, next time you think SEGA of America's desired changes were all for the worst, keep in mind that SoA saved Sonic from being romantically linked to a human woman 15 years before that became the most mocked thing about Sonic.

[Starnik]

On 11/4/2022 at 12:20 AM, Guergy said:

I agree with this. The thing is, SEGA will not allow that to happen as they only have one vision concerning Sonic. Sonic is many things to many fans but it seems as though SEGA will allow that to happen. I like most incarnations of Sonic but I really wish that SEGA will allow those incarnations to exist.

The fans can always make OCs and head cannons, etc. Sega can’t do anything to stop that. Whether or not Sega shares that vision of Sonic is unimportant. The fandom will fill the void with fan creations. Seems like the fans are often the ones making the content that keep other fans around.

[Scritch the Cat]

On 10/7/2022 at 1:23 AM, Starnik said:

But they let outsiders do what they want regardless if it fit the brand they created and allowed fans to be divided. I doubt Nintendo or other companies would appreciate losing so much control over their own franchises. I also want to know how fans fell in love with the shows more than the actual games themselves?

I don't actually remember many fan divisions back in the 1990s, and I think it's probably because the games back then didn't give them all that much to contradict.  And come to that, I don't see all that much about American Sonic that didn't "fit the brand".  The first two cartoons took radically different directions from each other but both of them took clear cues from the games.  Sonic Vs Eggman looks like a Bugs Bunny/Roadrunner scenario sometimes; other times it can look like a Star Wars scenario.  Jaleel White's voice felt like a perfect fit for Sonic due to its high nasally quality being what people expected from talking cartoon rodents.

I accept that all of this coexistence couldn't last forever.  In time, the games were inevitably going to build up enough of their own cast and mythology that something would have to give between them and the adaptations...well, give or result in a grotesquely cluttered mess like the Archie series became.  But that doesn't mean the American reversioning of Sonic had objectively bad ideas or that it made the games look worse at the time.  I won't go as far as to say correlation is cause, but the major factionalization in this series happened only after SEGA of Japan started taking more control, and as understandable as it was for them to do that, it doesn't automatically mean their ideas for the series are all better.

Some of the wilder things in American adaptations, I can agree deserved discontinuation.  Not many fans mourned the demise of Sonic Underground or Penders Archie.  But then there are some bits of editorializing from SEGA of Japan that I just find petty, such as their opposition to the name Mobius.  Yes, just the name; not really the idea of Sonic living on another planet.  I understand it was solely a western invention and SoJ's intention had always been for Sonic to live on Earth, but the proof is in the pudding and for many it was often very awkward to see Sonic in the "human world".  It has often been said that Eggman/Robotnik is more tolerated in this series than most humans because he's a cartoony human, but while he is, that is not the whole story.  Arguably, he still looks a bit out of place, but the difference with him is that looking like an interloper in Sonic's domain is the point.  It's a decidedly different vibe when Sonic and a few other anthropomorphic creatures suddenly live among humans, with them being regarded just as nonchalantly as the anthros in BoJack Horseman, despite there being so many less anthros compared to the humans in the Adventure era of Sonic.  As bad an adaptation as I consider Sonic X overall, it at least improved on the games in that one area by giving some insight into how Sonic and co got into the human world and played the awkwardness of their presence for laughs, and it's not too surprising that the Sonic movies have followed suit and even the games have increasingly embraced the notion of there being many different worlds that the Sonic characters travel between...but with SEGA of Japan willing to go there in search of an artistic vision that fits Sonic better, why do they have to stay so against the notion of Mobius being one of those worlds?  Some say SEGA of Japan is merely indifferent to those Western ideas and overall that is likely true, but they were at least bossy enough to force SEGA Hardlight to remove a Mobius reference from their mobile games, and that sort of behavior annoys fans.

[Rabbitearsblog]

1 hour ago, Scritch the Cat said:

I don't actually remember many fan divisions back in the 1990s, and I think it's probably because the games back then didn't give them all that much to contradict.  And come to that, I don't see all that much about American Sonic that didn't "fit the brand".  The first two cartoons took radically different directions from each other but both of them took clear cues from the games.  Sonic Vs Eggman looks like a Bugs Bunny/Roadrunner scenario sometimes; other times it can look like a Star Wars scenario.  Jaleel White's voice felt like a perfect fit for Sonic due to its high nasally quality being what people expected from talking cartoon rodents.

I accept that all of this coexistence couldn't last forever.  In time, the games were inevitably going to build up enough of their own cast and mythology that something would have to give between them and the adaptations...well, give or result in a grotesquely cluttered mess like the Archie series became.  But that doesn't mean the American reversioning of Sonic had objectively bad ideas or that it made the games look worse at the time.  I won't go as far as to say correlation is cause, but the major factionalization in this series happened only after SEGA of Japan started taking more control, and as understandable as it was for them to do that, it doesn't automatically mean their ideas for the series are all better.

Some of the wilder things in American adaptations, I can agree deserved discontinuation.  Not many fans mourned the demise of Sonic Underground or Penders Archie.  But then there are some bits of editorializing from SEGA of Japan that I just find petty, such as their opposition to the name Mobius.  Yes, just the name; not really the idea of Sonic living on another planet.  I understand it was solely a western invention and SoJ's intention had always been for Sonic to live on Earth, but the proof is in the pudding and for many it was often very awkward to see Sonic in the "human world".  It has often been said that Eggman/Robotnik is more tolerated in this series than most humans because he's a cartoony human, but while he is, that is not the whole story.  Arguably, he still looks a bit out of place, but the difference with him is that looking like an interloper in Sonic's domain is the point.  It's a decidedly different vibe when Sonic and a few other anthropomorphic creatures suddenly live among humans, with them being regarded just as nonchalantly as the anthros in BoJack Horseman, despite there being so many less anthros compared to the humans in the Adventure era of Sonic.  As bad an adaptation as I consider Sonic X overall, it at least improved on the games in that one area by giving some insight into how Sonic and co got into the human world and played the awkwardness of their presence for laughs, and it's not too surprising that the Sonic movies have followed suit and even the games have increasingly embraced the notion of there being many different worlds that the Sonic characters travel between...but with SEGA of Japan willing to go there in search of an artistic vision that fits Sonic better, why do they have to stay so against the notion of Mobius being one of those worlds?  Some say SEGA of Japan is merely indifferent to those Western ideas and overall that is likely true, but they were at least bossy enough to force SEGA Hardlight to remove a Mobius reference from their mobile games, and that sort of behavior annoys fans.

I'm honestly not sure if it's because the aspect of Mobius is from a time where SEGA didn't really have any control of Sonic's lore and once the Sonic Adventure series started, they felt the need to disregard any lore created from the Archie Comics or the 90s cartoon shows because they weren't apart of SEGA's vision or if it's because of the Penders lawsuit that happened with Archie and SEGA wants nothing to do with that series anymore.  Of course, that shouldn't be the case because technically speaking, Penders doesn't own the Freedom Fighters and SEGA could easily use the Freedom Fighters in future games if they wanted to.  But, I'm starting to lean more into the fact that aspects like the Freedom Fighters and Mobius are just not apart of SEGA's current vision for the franchise.

[Fieryfurnace]

15 hours ago, Rabbitearsblog said:

I'm honestly not sure if it's because the aspect of Mobius is from a time where SEGA didn't really have any control of Sonic's lore and once the Sonic Adventure series started, they felt the need to disregard any lore created from the Archie Comics or the 90s cartoon shows because they weren't apart of SEGA's vision or if it's because of the Penders lawsuit that happened with Archie and SEGA wants nothing to do with that series anymore.  Of course, that shouldn't be the case because technically speaking, Penders doesn't own the Freedom Fighters and SEGA could easily use the Freedom Fighters in future games if they wanted to.  But, I'm starting to lean more into the fact that aspects like the Freedom Fighters and Mobius are just not apart of SEGA's current vision for the franchise.

Uh, the name Mobius originated in Sega of America's second draft of the Sonic the Hedgehog bible in 1991. It wasn't created in the Archie Comics or the 90s cartoons. It certainly didn't originate "from a time where SEGA didn't really have any control of Sonic's lore" - they created it themselves.

Edited November 6, 2022 by Fieryfurnace

[Starnik]

1 hour ago, Fieryfurnace said:

Uh, the name Mobius originated in Sega of America's second draft of the Sonic the Hedgehog bible in 1991. It wasn't created in the Archie Comics or the 90s cartoons. It certainly didn't originate "from a time where SEGA didn't really have any control of Sonic's lore" - they created it themselves.

But that’s SEGA of America. What about SEGA of Japan?

[Raya]

Im really happy with the unification of the brand. Especially when I'll see games connected directly to lore created by IDW Comics, which is my favourite part of the Sonic universe since an Adventure era.

[Fieryfurnace]

3 hours ago, Starnik said:

But that’s SEGA of America. What about SEGA of Japan?

SEGA of America was always in control of the lore of Sonic media published in America, just as SEGA of Japan was always in control of the lore of Sonic media published in Japan. My only point is that there was never a time when "SEGA didn't really have any control of Sonic's lore" like Rabbitearsblog wrote. They own the license - of course they've always had control lol. Whether the different divisions communicated with each other sufficiently and exercised brand control when they should have done earlier in Sonic's history is up for debate. I'm not really sure what your question is asking. I doubt they'd bring back Mobius as a world name if that's what you mean.

Although, at least for Sonic SatAM, early series bibles and scripts were translated into Japanese by SoA's Shinobu Toyoda and sent to SoJ for feedback and approval from Yuji Naka and Naoto Oshima. It's why Kazuyuki Hoshino had a Japanese script of SatAM's "Heads or Tails" pilot packed away in boxes with all his early 1990s Sonic and Nights concept art from when he worked at SoJ. We don't know the extent to which the Japanese branch gave feedback because none of these materials have been released publicly, but in terms of Japanese feedback on strictly non-Japanese Sonic media, SatAM is the earliest case.

Edited November 6, 2022 by Fieryfurnace

[Rabbitearsblog]

21 minutes ago, Raya said:

Im really happy with the unification of the brand. Especially when I'll see games connected directly to lore created by IDW Comics, which is my favourite part of the Sonic universe since an Adventure era.

I do love how the IDW comics tie in the lore of the games and create engaging stories out of it.  That's something I like to see other medias do with the Sonic brand.

[Starnik]

1 hour ago, Fieryfurnace said:

SEGA of America was always in control of the lore of Sonic media published in America, just as SEGA of Japan was always in control of the lore of Sonic media published in Japan. My only point is that there was never a time when "SEGA didn't really have any control of Sonic's lore" like Rabbitearsblog wrote. They own the license - of course they've always had control lol. Whether the different divisions communicated with each other sufficiently and exercised brand control when they should have done earlier in Sonic's history is up for debate. I'm not really sure what your question is asking. I doubt they'd bring back Mobius as a world name if that's what you mean.

Although, at least for Sonic SatAM, early series bibles and scripts were translated into Japanese by SoA's Shinobu Toyoda and sent to SoJ for feedback and approval from Yuji Naka and Naoto Oshima. It's why Kazuyuki Hoshino had a Japanese script of SatAM's "Heads or Tails" pilot packed away in boxes with all his early 1990s Sonic and Nights concept art from when he worked at SoJ. We don't know the extent to which the Japanese branch gave feedback because none of these materials have been released publicly, but in terms of Japanese feedback on strictly non-Japanese Sonic media, SatAM is the earliest case.

Thanks for explaining.

[VO.SUPER]

20 hours ago, Fieryfurnace said:

SEGA of America was always in control of the lore of Sonic media published in America, just as SEGA of Japan was always in control of the lore of Sonic media published in Japan. My only point is that there was never a time when "SEGA didn't really have any control of Sonic's lore" like Rabbitearsblog wrote. They own the license - of course they've always had control lol. Whether the different divisions communicated with each other sufficiently and exercised brand control when they should have done earlier in Sonic's history is up for debate. I'm not really sure what your question is asking. I doubt they'd bring back Mobius as a world name if that's what you mean.

Although, at least for Sonic SatAM, early series bibles and scripts were translated into Japanese by SoA's Shinobu Toyoda and sent to SoJ for feedback and approval from Yuji Naka and Naoto Oshima. It's why Kazuyuki Hoshino had a Japanese script of SatAM's "Heads or Tails" pilot packed away in boxes with all his early 1990s Sonic and Nights concept art from when he worked at SoJ. We don't know the extent to which the Japanese branch gave feedback because none of these materials have been released publicly, but in terms of Japanese feedback on strictly non-Japanese Sonic media, SatAM is the earliest case.

All we know is that Sega were pretty disagreeable with the direction of SatAM as a whole, if writer Len Janson is to be believed. And the fact a lot of the Satam elements were dropped from SoA marketing (the Aosth Robotnik design) does show an early disconnect as is.

[Fieryfurnace]

5 hours ago, VO.SUPER said:

All we know is that Sega were pretty disagreeable with the direction of SatAM as a whole, if writer Len Janson is to be believed. And the fact a lot of the Satam elements were dropped from SoA marketing (the Aosth Robotnik design) does show an early disconnect as is.

Warning - essay incoming lol

Not exactly? I'm not really sure what you mean by "if writer Len Janson is to be believed". He's never given a single interview pertaining to SatAM and is an extremely private person in general. Nobody's been able to contact him for information about his involvement in the show - or Pat Allee, the other story editor with involvement in both seasons. You might have him mixed up with Ben Hurst, who did talk about Len Janson "defending" his Season 2 writing from SoA (well, he just says "Sega") in a quote I posted earlier in the thread: ""I created the background continuity [of SatAM] which was dramatically different from Sega's - and Len Janson defended our continuity against them, because he felt it was better." To be clear, when Ben Hurst speaks of "background continuity", he's referring to the Blast to the Past two-parter, which are the only episodes they had to "fight" for with SoA - Blast to the Past itself was a retcon of the SatAM pilot and Season 1 background continuity (found in production materials). Ben Hurst further clarified: "There was a two-part script I had poured my heart into. A two-part script that I fought battles over with both SEGA and ABC executives in order to bring it to the light of day. This script was, in my opinion, the defining moment of Satam. I'm sure you've already guessed it was "Blast to the Past." I was supported in my struggle by both Len Janson and Pat Allee and we prevailed." 

We don't know the exact problem SoA had with those two episodes in particular (the ABC executive's issue was the inclusion of Rosie, Sally's caretaker, but that's off-topic). My assumption is they didn't want to establish a 'concrete background' for Sonic, and Len Janson was able to convince them that setting up the background lore would be beneficial for the story they were trying to tell, which itself was just a different incarnation of Sonic separate from the games anyway, and SoA assented to that logic. This isn't based on any interview or evidence, of course, because Len Janson has never said anything about the show at all and Ben Hurst never said what problem Sega had. It may even be that SoA didn't have a problem with Blast to the Past, but they knew that SoJ would have a problem with it, and SoA didn't want the hassle of trying to justify such an ambitious backstory episode to the Japanese branch. SoA needed to approve every character design, script, and piece of music used for the show, and regularly gave comments and requests for revisions that DIC respected, because SEGA is the license holder. I can't emphasise enough that SatAM wouldn't exist in the form that it did if SoA were "pretty disagreeable with the direction of SatAM as a whole" - SoA owned the full rights and had the final say for literally everything produced for the show, from the pilot to the final episode. 

If by "direction of SatAM as a whole", you think that SoA didn't approve of the premise or the tone, this isn't true either. The original pitch DIC made to SoA for a Sonic-themed TV show in late 1991 was the premise of SatAM. Sonic and "Princess Acorn" fight with "The Freedom Team" against the threat of “Dr Robotnik’s Robotic Transformation Machine” which turns the denizens of Mobius into robots. SoA approved of this pitch before DIC even contacted ABC to see if they were interested in having a Sonic TV show, and writing for the pilot began in February 1992. SoA also approved of DIC sharing SatAM pilot model sheets and character documents with the Archie Comics team in mid-1992, which is why the Freedom Fighters appear so prominently in Archie. Before SatAM was cancelled by ABC at Season 3, near the end of work on Season 2, SoA contacted Ron Myrick and asked him to incorporate Knuckles into Season 3 - so he hastily recoloured cels of Sonic's eyes and inserted them at the end of the final episode Project Doomsday as a hint towards Knuckles eventual inclusion (no, the eyes aren't Naugus, Ben Hurst was wrong lol). So, even at the very end of Season 2's development, SoA was requesting new (at the time) elements of Sonic's game media to be incorporated into SatAM. As for SoA's overall marketing, Milton Knight's redesign of SatAM Robotnik for AoStH is iconic and much more marketable - he's more silly looking and easier to incorporate into the lighter tone of wider Sonic media, so it makes sense they'd go with that design. I don't think that's really evidence that SoA were disagreeable about SatAM as a whole? I'd say SoA were perfectly fine with using SatAM elements for marketing, considering that Sonic's love of chili dogs originated in SatAM's Series Bible and would become a recognizable staple of Sonic's character, to the point that it's one of the only aspects of early American Sonic media that's actually been incorporated into the games. Also, the large prevalence of the Freedom Fighters in book/comic media throughout the '90s (not just the Archie comics, but in Golden Books, and the Troll Associates Sonic books, and Look and Find) doesn't indicate that SoA had any early grievances with SatAM concepts appearing in wider Sonic media. Though outside of written media it didn't happen often, because for toy sales Game Sonic and TV Sonic were different licenses (hence no Scratch and Grounder figures, which sucks)...

[Zoomzeta]

So is it safe to talk about Frontiers in relation to all of this or..? 

[Rabbitearsblog]

10 minutes ago, Zoomzeta said:

So is it safe to talk about Frontiers in relation to all of this or..? 

It's probably best to talk about Frontiers in the spoilers thread.  There's still a lot of people who haven't gotten the game yet.