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If Knuckles died, what would happen to Master Emerald?


MetalSkulkBane

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Do you think Knuckles spared that though? Did anyone spared that though?

When he'll die, so will echidna race and the line of guardians. Last time I checked he's not immortal, so it's not question of "if" but "when". Sure, he has bunch of friends, but frankly I don't think any of them would want to spend rest of their lives on Angels Island.

So what are your guesses. Will Sonic and rest just let Rouge put ME in her secret vault? Best case scenario he dies of old age, but that's just throwing problem on the next generation.

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SEGA isn't prepared to answer that so everything we come up with is as good as any other head canon out there. 

Eggman doesn't really go after the Master Emerald anyway, but assuming this was still a possibility, I think the best, albeit boring, answer is that GUN will somehow get involved and treat it as a matter of international security or something. 

Alternatively, and a more interesting answer in my opinion, the Master Emerald stops working. Without a guardian, there could be a sort of contingency built into the Emerald's spirit or something that causes it to just fade out, sending Angel Island into the ocean once and for all. That'd be the true end of the echidna's legacy. 

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If knuckles dies, the master emerald deed automatically goes to rogue as knuckles had included her in his last will and testament before he died. Deep down, knuckles trusted her and knew the master emerald would be safe in her hands. Later it turns out that the will was forged and a very enraged knuckles resurrects from his grave and takes the emerald back. And then rouge wakes up.

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It'll remain the same kinda before knuckles decided to become its guardian or prior to knuckles be born. We're told the duty of knuckles and his own perception of importance in regards of guarding the master emerald, but IMO in practice his role has been inconsequencial.

I'm more curious towards Sonic Team explanation about Gerald Robotnik having possession of it (or some replica, i can't recall) and experimenting witch Chaos power.

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It'll probably remain there on angel island. As far as we're shown, Eggman is not only the only person who seems to be able to tap into its power but is also the only human shown going up to it in general. For all we know, the rest of humanity may not know the master emerald (and by extension Angel Island) even exist.

And if IDW is seen as canon (which I think Sonic Team is trying to do), then we also know that Eggman is not one to revisit past plans so he most likely wouldn't do anything with the master emerald. Maybe when knuckles finally croaks Eggman tries to make a mad dash for it, but once he's inevitably stopped after that then I doubt he'll be too focused on it.

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guys, the Rivals games show that the Emerald is just ... there in Silver's time. 

they basically explained like that, 200 years into the future and the emerald is just sitting there,unguarded, it seems. 

These are their words, not mine. You already got an answer.

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6 minutes ago, Ducktor Naldush said:

guys, the Rivals games show that the Emerald is just ... there in Silver's time. 

they basically explained like that, 200 years into the future and the emerald is just sitting there,unguarded, it seems. 

These are their words, not mine. You already got an answer.

Totally possible it's guarded by Knuckles' bat-chidna descendants, and Silver didn't want to divulge that info

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1 hour ago, Ducktor Naldush said:

guys, the Rivals games show that the Emerald is just ... there in Silver's time. 

they basically explained like that, 200 years into the future and the emerald is just sitting there,unguarded, it seems. 

That or Eggman Nega turned the future guardian into a card

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Oh god, the Rivals 1 plot was so weird.

"Master Emerald is so special that turning it into a card in the future, makes it disappear in the past as well"

Past is not a single moment. By that logic, no one should even seen Master Emerald in their lives. Knuckles wouldn't be a guardian and there was no Chaos accident.

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Archie gives me the easy answer where I figure Chaos will just take over. From a cursory glance of stuff like Battle or the Forces prequel comics (I grant it's an illusion in the Forces comics but the way Knuckles talks about him he doesn't seem shocked if Chaos ever just pops up) it sounds like he can leave the Emerald whenever he wants, especially if there's a need to do so.

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It’s funny…before Archie, I never even thought of the idea of using Chaos to guard it in his place.

To think the literal decade-plus years I’ve infamously went on about it, and not once did I ever even think of that—I usually settled on bringing back Shade the Echidna instead.

More infuriatingly, Sega themselves never bothered to steal the idea and use that as an explanation. 

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7 hours ago, Zaysho said:

Archie gives me the easy answer where I figure Chaos will just take over.

I wish it just happened now.

As much as I love Chaos, his story is over and there isn't much you can do with him beyond "nostalgia time, guest boss fight", might saw well make him permanent guardian. Knuckles has places to be and people to punch

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19 hours ago, MetalSkulkBane said:

I wish it just happened now.

As much as I love Chaos, his story is over and there isn't much you can do with him beyond "nostalgia time, guest boss fight", might saw well make him permanent guardian.

No, that’s just not bothering to try and grow the character. At worst, it’s a failure at creativity.

So their original story is over. Is “making a new story” for them somehow not an idea?

Not trying to be mean when I ask that, just that people have said that same thing about Shadow and that clearly isn’t true for him. Were that the case, the same could be said for Knuckles over the past decade, as they sure as shit haven’t been doing anything worthwhile with him for the longest outside of the alternate media and would be better off staying as the permanent guardian instead—makes no sense how Knuckles somehow has places to be, but an ancient God of Destruction doesn’t.

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7 hours ago, CrownSlayer’s Shadow said:

Not trying to be mean when I ask that, just that people have said the same thing about Shadow and that clearly isn’t true for him. Were that the case, the same could be said for Knuckles over the past decade, as they sure as shit haven’t been doing anything worthwhile with him for the longest outside of the alternate media and would be better off staying as the permanent guardian instead—makes no sense how Knuckles somehow has places to be, but an ancient God of Destruction doesn’t.

Fair point, but as far as we know Chaos is closer to an animal than hu... mobian being, so it's kinda hard to write him an arc. I would be on board to reveal he's a person, but that would make him an ancient wise spirit. With a set of powers that would make it tricky to insert into the Sonic game.

But if you believe otherwise, let's hear it. Pitch idea of how Chaos could be inserted in the greater story. Preferably in a way that doesn't make him yet another of Sonic friends, we have too many of those.

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13 hours ago, MetalSkulkBane said:

 

But if you believe otherwise, let's hear it. Pitch idea of how Chaos could be inserted in the greater story.

Before I start…

13 hours ago, MetalSkulkBane said:

Preferably in a way that doesn't make him yet another of Sonic friends, we have too many of those.

No.

Chaos’s whole motive in his debut was due to an ancient grudge against the world he now got over. By all intents and purposes, Chaos is—or rather would be—an ally of Sonic if he were to show up again (not that you can’t make a plot where they end up fighting against each other). And quite frankly, Sonic doesn’t have many friends that can turn into city-destroying Kaijus outside of Chip who is now in a millennia-long slumber at the center of the Earth, unless you want to count Gemerl.

Matter of fact, Unleashed would be the perfect backdrop to even have him back given the Shattered World Crisis arc from Archie, and you could have used the Dark Gaia corruption within Sonic as a pretext for Chaos to attack him; or have it reversed and make Dark Gaia corrupt Chaos instead, and have him and Sonic fight.

But beyond that, you’re better off making new villains or bringing back old ones and telling Sonic Team to stop killing them off in their debuts if you want to solve that problem.

 

——

My pitch, off the top of my head, would have Eggman steal the Master Emerald (yes, again) but this time under Knuckles’ nose after invading Angel Island with a legion of Super Badniks more than Knuckles can handle and knocking him off the island.

Either by using the island as his base, or letting it fall into the ocean, Eggman studies the Master Emerald and finds a way use it to mechanically nullify the Chaos Emeralds like he did Super Sonic in Unleashed. Now, you can’t rely on using Super Sonic at the 11th hour to defeat him.

Ideally, Eggman would just take the Emerald and let Angel Island fall, and in this process, he winds up having to deal with Chaos. With the Master Emerald nullifying the Chaos Emeralds, Chaos can’t use them to reach his perfect form, meaning the God of Destruction is restricted to his baseline form of Chaos 0. But after all of his experience, Eggman is more able to handle Chaos—he has some trouble, using his Super Badniks to keep Chaos at a distance, but he still achieves his goal of taking the Master Emerald for himself.

With Angel Island now on the ocean, Chaos uses his control of water to help Knuckles find friends to retake the Master Emerald and get their home back afloat—he does so by making himself as an aquatic form of armor that surrounds Knuckles’ body, and can throw punches that can stretch like the Werehog and shield him from heavier damage while fighting (Hey, look at that! A way to use the Werehog mechanics for Knuckles!). This enhances not only Knuckles strength, but gives Rad Red access to using water powers in conjunction with Chaos, so now you have a water-bending Knuckles that can punch like the werehog along with Knuckles’ usual abilities.

As they recruit help, Eggman is using the Master Emerald to create a super weapon that can devastate any part of the world regardless of where Eggman is—say he makes a base underground that has a device powered by the ME that can cause a hurricane on the other side of the planet at will as a show of force. The heroes’ goal is to find that base and destroy that device.

Over the course of this story, they find Sonic, gather the Chaos Emeralds, and find Eggman’s secret base. In the third act, Sonic and Chaos (and maybe Silver and Shadow if you find the means to work them in, it’s possible) use their power to go Super and Perfect Chaos and go on the offensive—but remember, Eggman can nullify both, so they have to keep their distance lest they lose that advantage in a snap when they least expect it.

Eggman threatens that if anyone with a superform comes within X distance of his base, he’ll negate those forms and then cause a worldwide catastrophe for him to remake his empire over the ashes. Then he unleashes several mechs the size of one of the Death Egg Sentinels, each with the power to sap the super forms away.

So, how do they beat him? With the other characters.

Think the inverse of Heroes, where Team Dark, Rose, and Chaotix had to distract Metal Sonic for Team Sonic to go Super. In this case, the super forms are distracting the Sentinels, letting the other teams sneak into the base, one of them being Knuckles.

Now Knuckles still has his watery “Chaos Armor”, now more enhanced thanks to Perfect Chaos with the power of the seven Chaos Emeralds they collected—while Perfect Chaos is fighting alongside Super Sonic from the outside, his control over water and his use of the Chaos Emeralds allows him to transfer a piece of himself to Knuckles at a distance that Eggman didn’t see coming. So, those forms of Chaos back in SA1? Integrate those as forms or abilities for Knuckles:

-Chaos 2 Armor has heavy boxing arms that can punch craters into the ground and punch at extreme ranges like a sniper rifle.

-Chaos 4 Armor has Knuckles creating shockwaves and swimming through either the air or water like a torpedo—in fact, that’s the form he used to sneak everyone onto the island.

-Chaos 6 Armor is the most powerful form, giving Knuckles multiple arms to punch with and a tail to stab through Badniks, and a supermove that has Knuckles borrowing Perfect Chaos’s beam attack in a Kamehameha-like attack when he has enough energy.

They reach the heart of the base, battle Metal Sonic guarding the doomsday device with the Master Emerald, and steal the ME back. Now with the ME back in the Heroes hands, Super Sonic and Perfect Chaos can now attack the Sentinels without worry of them sapping their super forms. They then close in and destroy the base.

Thinking the day is saved, Chaos and Knuckles return to Angel Island and lift their home into the skies. Unbeknownst to everyone, Eggman, however, was never even there at the base during the whole event, having watched everything from a space station. Upset, but not discouraged, the mad doctor now begins Phase 2 of his plan, leading onto a cliffhanger.

So, long story short, essentially making Chaos a watery symbiote to Knuckles like Venom from Marvel, but more benign.

This is a story I came up with on the fly, and I restricted myself to making no new characters, so imagine what you could make if you put more thought into something similar?

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Regarding the comics I know it came out that he wasn't the only Echidna left alive. Regarding the games however, we don't know how this works because not only does Knuckles rarely ever mentions the Master Emerald anymore, but him being the protector of it just seems like something that SEGA  aren't interested in ever bringing back up.

But if I would need to guess, if there isn't a ceremony to become the guardian, I assume the Master Emerald can pick one. It's self aware as shown in Adventure, and Tikal can even talk to it as if its listening.

Speaking of Tikal do you think Chaos was the original guardian of the Master Emerald or was he only there because the Chao were?

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@CrownSlayer’s ShadowI should be more specific. By "another of Sonic friends" I meant "part of the gang". Obviously, Chaos is a good guy and such, but I don't want him to be in the same group as Blaze, Espio, or Shadow.

But using him as a superpower up for Knuckles is neat. It would only work if we have another game with Multiple playable characters and an actual focus on Knuckles, but still

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