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Knuckles' Chaotix/Sonic Heroes continuity issues.


Scorch
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Since other continuity issues, such as Blaze and Nega Robotnik/Eggman Nega being from the future, and the Sonic Advance 3/Sonic Unleashed plothole, I thought I'd go ahead and throw this one out there. I'm sure you've all see the cutscene in Sonic Heroes that took place before Egg Hawk boss battle when you're playing as Team Chaotix. Espio will state, "That's the evil genius, Dr. Eggman!", and Charmy replies with, "Dr. WHO?", as if they've never met him before. This clearly indicates a lack of continuity, since they all fought Robotnik in Knuckles' Chaotix, and the events in that game took place prior to the ones in Sonic Heroes. What's the deal with this? Was Sonic Team purposely trying to disregard Knuckles' Chaotix, pretending as if it never happened? Next-Gen Sonic, I could understand, since the events that took place in the game got erased from history, but there's really no excuse for this one whatsoever.

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It's a result of the lobotomy Charmy got. The ages listed in the manual are mental age, not physical age. This is why Charmy is strong enough to carry the team- he's actually a buff adult- yet behaves like a small child.

Alternatively, he always was that dumb.

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Was Sonic Team purposely trying to disregard Knuckles' Chaotix, pretending as if it never happened?
Pretty much. The Chaotix were introduced as new characters in Heroes, with redesigned looks and modified personalities and abilities.
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Pretty much. The Chaotix were introduced as new characters in Heroes, with redesigned looks and modified personalities and abilities.

By that logic, Sonic Adventure is it's own world apart from the genesis games. Redesigned looks has little to do with it, nor do the personality overhauls. Don't even get me started on some of the ability stuff. I could just as easily see the Chaotix having teamed up long term after their experience in Knuckles' Chaotix just as easily as I could see "BLATANT DISCONTINUITY!" out of this one. Heck, the trio never really see Knuckles until the end if I recall correctly, and there isn't much time for chat at any point there.

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Or perhaps he's so CLEVER he was trying to piss Eggman off by acting like he was so insignificant that he couldn't recall meeting him, thus playing off his ego. There's so many explanations for this one, and so many that work because, as stated, Charmy is a fracking moron.

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"But like, what's a top secret disc?" - Charmy Bee.

Yeah, Charmy's an airhead. He's pretty funny though. I think his attention span must be severely effected by being a bee, or maybe he's just tweaking on all the honey he must eat. That's been my explanation.

Alternatively - The Chaotix are playable first, as are any of the teams. Charmy may be asking who Eggman is for the benefit of the audience, because this might be the player's first Sonic game. The first boss is the best place to do this.

Also alternatively, but kind of silly - Charmy only knows him by the name Dr. Robotnik, or never met Robotnik during the official story of Chaotix. Metal Sonic is the final boss of that game, and Robotnik only appears 5 times when Charmy is playable. As all the characters are optional, Charmy can be present in the story of Chaotix and never have to fight Robotnik at all. That's unlikely though.

But if I were a bit more honest, I'd think they were trying to reset the characters, making it their first encounter with Eggman. I don't know why they'd do that. I think a hinted at previous meeting, no matter how obscure Knuckles' Chaotix was, would raise interest in the team and make them more welcome, instead of the obvious "Team #4" that they were in Sonic Heroes.

I really like Knuckles' Chaotix. It's very colorful and made excellent use of Metal Sonic. The bad ending of that game is scary as hell. I'd like Chaotix to be treated like canon, and I think this was a poor choice by Sonic Team. Relaunching a set of characters doesn't mean you need to erase their history, you should build on it. Maybe if Mighty is ever brought back from the scrap bin, we'll see a reference.

Edited by Badnikz
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Due to never seeing the original footage where Eggman's voice had not been tweaked, I honestly had no idea who their "client" was in Heroes, and remember seriously hoping it would turn out to be Mighty when I played through. The Eggman plot twist was still pretty cool all the same, and I never imagined Mighty having such a silly voice, but still.

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Metal Sonic is the final boss of that game, and Robotnik only appears 5 times when Charmy is playable.

Review that scene again though.

(Starts at 3:41)

Metal Sonic and Eggman, together, fly into the Dark Ring- And out comes the giant red monstrosity that is the final boss. It seems like that was a bizarre fusion of Eggman and Metal Sonic, not merely an upgraded form for Metal during the fight.

Granted, Charmy would be hard-pressed to know this, as he didn't watch the transformation take place.

Edited by El Gran Gordo
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I think Charmy was more likely trying to annoy Eggman by sarcastically saying that. It's like if you were talking to a big celebrity, and you said "Huh, never heard of you", if they loved themselves as much as Eggman did (he does love himself :P) they'd be pretty annoyed wouldn't they?

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Eggman was called Robotnik during the Chaotix events, and Charmey get's lost when the refer to him as Eggman.

Since Charmey is such a scatter brain, it's nowhere near a stretch that Charney simple didn't catch on to Robotnik's new alias.

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Eggman was called Robotnik during the Chaotix events, and Charmey get's lost when the refer to him as Eggman.

Since Charmey is such a scatter brain, it's nowhere near a stretch that Charney simple didn't catch on to Robotnik's new alias.

No, no, that doesn't make sense.

Eggman was always called Eggman, even before Adventure. At least in the Japanese storyline, which by the time of Heroes, had been adapted into the universal storyline accepted by all territories.

Though even before 1998, "Eggman" appeared in Sonic 2 and Sonic Drift 2, unedited in the English releases.

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From this interview...

Takashi Iizuka: In my mind, I didn't bring back the Team Chaotix characters from the past -- instead, they're new characters who happen to fit into the game. I wanted to create at least one team that was totally different from how Team Sonic talks and acts. Those three characters, Charmy, Espio, and Vector... they're so unique in their actions, personalities, and goals. They add a lot of flavor and variety to the overall picture. There's also the fact that those characters have never been used by Sonic Team -- we weren't involved with Knuckles Chaotix; some other internal sega Development team did that. So it's not a matter of bringing up old characters... we recreated those characters from the ground up. We want Sonic to be Sonic, and for the others to be supporting characters. I'm very happy with the way Team Chaotix turned out, so I hope they'll be brought back to another title in the future. You'll see more of them!

I think that's [retty good proof that Sonic Team themselves don't consider Knuckles' Chaotix canon.

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So, what he's basically saying, is just because Knuckles' Chaotix wasn't developed by Sonic Team, then it isn't considered canon? What a load of crap. By his logic, Sonic CD isn't canon either, since THAT wasn't developed by Sonic Team. They even showed flashbacks of those events in Sonic Adventure, during Amy's story. That's most likely something he came up with at the list minute in an attempt to justify that massive continuity error.

Edited by Scorch
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Is it possible to consider something retconned canon?

I'd like to consider Knuckles' Chaotix as a story that did happen, but happened somehow differently due to the events in Heroes. Like retconned canon. Whatever, Sonic Team. I love the game, so that's how I'll look at it.

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