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Kuzu

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51 minutes ago, Slash said:

And they say the gameplay is literally mashing a bunch of buttons and that's it. literally. NO. That's NOT literally it. There's much more to it that button mashing and you know it!

It's not much else. LMAO!

Mash square, build up energy, push directional button and push square (or do a variation of this). Combat Design!
 

And that only works if you're not on the final island since most enemies go down way quicker even long before you can actually get to those unlockable moves, or encounter an enemy which doesn't require a gimmick move to put them into a position to show off the combos. 

There are multiple mods out there which are desperately trying to make the combat better or *reads the description* actually last longer so you can actually have a fight with an enemy, the combat design is so good, people are modding it to be like other games. But it's definitely not only slightly above button mashing.

 

Though whilst I have you here reading this... I was just curious after I wrote this response because... I had a bit of a memory flash back to the review and... What is your button mashing complaint in reference to? Specifically?

Because in the very first paragraph this is said...

 

Quote

My first clue came within an hour of play. After having a nice time exploring the starting area and discovering surprisingly enjoyable combat, I was introduced to the first large-scale miniboss - a hulking robot that I was supposed to run up the arms of before attacking a target atop its head.

 

Then a few moments later... there's this one...
 

Quote

 

The fighting system - at least for small scale enemies - is refreshing for a series that long ago trivialized combat and turned enemies into glorified stepping stones. Opponents actually have hit points now, requiring fast-paced combos rather than one-hit homing kills. There’s dodging, rudimentary parrying, unlockable special moves. It’s rather fun… when it works.

 

 

In fact, and I might be wrong, but I did Ctrl + F to look for the words "Mashing" and "Button" and yielded 0 results... 

What's this in reference to?

Quote

The review was EXACTLY what I was expecting. Are you happy, now?

Well your respect level has slightly increased for finally bothering to read a review instead of commenting on it before reading it... Though this normally the base line for expectations.

 

Edit: upon checking out the button mashing complaint, I have to ask, did you?

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23 minutes ago, Badnik Mechanic said:

It's not much else. LMAO!

Mash square, build up energy, push directional button and push square (or do a variation of this). Combat Design!
 

And that only works if you're not on the final island since most enemies go down way quicker even long before you can actually get to those unlockable moves, or encounter an enemy which doesn't require a gimmick move to put them into a position to show off the combos. 

There are multiple mods out there which are desperately trying to make the combat better or *reads the description* actually last longer so you can actually have a fight with an enemy, the combat design is so good, people are modding it to be like other games. But it's definitely not only slightly above button mashing.

Though whilst I have you here reading this... I was just curious after I wrote this response because... I had a bit of a memory flash back to the review and... What is your button mashing complaint in reference to? Specifically?

Because in the very first paragraph this is said...

Then a few moments later... there's this one...
 

In fact, and I might be wrong, but I did Ctrl + F to look for the words "Mashing" and "Button" and yielded 0 results... 

What's this in reference to?

Well your respect level has slightly increased for finally bothering to read a review instead of commenting on it before reading it... Though this normally the base line for expectations.

Edit: upon checking out the button mashing complaint, I have to ask, did you?

This was in reference to their "Worst games of 2022" blurb which what this whole kerfuffle was about. I didn't read the actual review-review. just their snippet from that video.

Are those paragraphs from Sterling's actual review? Because in that sounds nothing at all lilke what they said in the worst of 2022.

Edit: Now I just read the actual review. First they praise the combat here, then trash it in the 2022 video?!?! What gives!?!? The rest of the review is pretty much what I expect and more or less repeated from the other video.

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7 minutes ago, Kuzu said:

Why are we arguing about the validity of someone else's subjective opinion about this game? 

Because whilst all opinions are subjective, some opinions are objectively more subjective than others.

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8 minutes ago, Slash said:

Because whilst all opinions are subjective, some opinions are objectively more subjective than others.

Ok, but my thing is...who cares? Steph doesn't like the game, so what? 

Y'all treating their opinion like its the gospel or something and its so fucking weird. Especially since some of you are quick to latch onto good review scores from more unknown reviewers just because they were high. 

This whole attitude surrounding review scores never made much sense to me; you guys are fine with any score that praises the game, but when someone disparages it, now the story is that "their scores are subjective and don't matter" and now we're questioning the validity of them to begin with.  So review scores matter when they're praising the game, but don't matter when they aren't. 

 

And this happens every time a new Sonic game comes out and its still just as tiring as ever. If y'all are willing to accept any high score the game gets, then you should be willing to accept any low scores it gets as well, regardless if you agree with it or not. 

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Nobody really has to accept any review. Regardless of your stance, for or against the game, if you're getting overly haughty about it, that's the problem.

Now, if you've got certain reasons why certain reviews may or may not appeal to you, then that's fair.

No need for any generalization malarkey. 

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I fully admit that I haven't seen the 2022 video, but read Steph's review of the game in of itself. I'm not going to go into the whole validity process, or whatever you want to do. 

All I will say on that subject is like it or not, Steph has had some serious hot-takes about this franchise before, some bordering on contrarian-like opinions, such as Colours being terrible, Lost World being good, apparently Sonic 4 Ep 1 being good (could be wrong, that's second hand info I'm seeing), so if you have doubt on their opinion, then I can see it. Personally, as someone who can see their points and find validity in them, even as someone who enjoyed the game myself a lot, I still think worst of 2022 is absolutely blowing it out of proportion to a stretch, but whatever, you do you. 

Secondly, it being a opinion doesn't save it from scrutiny. It's a published review being placed out to the internet at large that's meant to be taken at least in a semi-professional manner. People can comment on if they feel the review is fair or not, if the criticisms it brings up is valid or not valid, etc. Reviews can be discussed just as much as the topic of the review itself. That's just part of what happens when you put a video or article online, you're inviting discussion and debate over it, which is perfectly fine, as long as it's within reason and not resorting to personal insults, flaming, or what have you. 

Thirdly, from what I've seen, the crux of the issue isn't that Steph doesn't like or dislike the game, but is using it as a means to basically beat down on the people who do like it, which is a different matter altogether, and as people have already said, this is something they're guilty of being hypocritical on due to their enjoyment of Pokémon Scarlet/Violet, or if you wanna go back to earlier examples, you can also find the likes of Alien Fireteam Elite, or so on, other games Steph has admitted are not up to par functionality or technically, but the game's own merits struck a cord with them and allowed them to enjoy it. If nothing else, you would imagine Steph could see why fans, and even quite a lot of non-fans really enjoy it, even if it's not their cup of tea. That, on top of the fact that Steph's actual review went to the lengths of calling out Sonic Team and accusing the effort that went into it would also leave a bad taste in a lot of mouths. 

And that really is kind of a issue. It's hard to take that angle with something as recent as Pokemon, which was not only much more of a technical mess, on top of not being anywhere near as ambitious as Frontiers was attempting to be (to my knowledge, I could be wrong), and then try to dictate that Sonic fans are beaten down into accepting complete bullshit as a game.

It's the same thing that happened back when we had Dunkey's review of Frontiers. His opinion and review was fine when it was a subjective review based on how he felt of the game, but it was a different matter altogether when suddenly he was attempting to dictate what was or wasn't a fair user score, even though they really didn't have any stakes in that race.

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The only thing steph said regarding Sonic Team's effort is that the creative decisions they made with the artstyle made the game look hacked together and lazy, which is straight up an observation I've seen in other places, including on this board before. It's just true. When you go so bog standard with your art design that you looked like you pulled from an asset pack it's going to look lazy no matter how much effort you actually put in behind the scenes.

Sonic fans clung to it because most of the actual points made in the article are fine and they needed an angle to attack the review from.

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13 minutes ago, Wraith said:

The only thing steph said regarding Sonic Team's effort is that the creative decisions they made with the artstyle made the game look hacked together and lazy, which is straight up an observation I've seen in other places, including on this board before. It's just true. When you go so bog standard with your art design that you looked like you pulled from an asset pack it's going to look lazy no matter how much effort you actually put in behind the scenes.

Sonic fans clung to it because most of the actual points made in the article are fine and they needed an angle to attack the review from.

I don't know why some people tend to default to the idea that whenever folk point out issues with a review that they note, that is suddenly amounts to "attacking the review".

There's scrutiny to be had, and has been mentioned prior so just reducing it to supposedly baseless attacks, doesn't make sense.

52 minutes ago, Ryannumber1Santa said:

Secondly, it being a opinion doesn't save it from scrutiny. It's a published review being placed out to the internet at large that's meant to be taken at least in a semi-professional manner. People can comment on if they feel the review is fair or not, if the criticisms it brings up is valid or not valid, etc. Reviews can be discussed just as much as the topic of the review itself. That's just part of what happens when you put a video or article online, you're inviting discussion and debate over it, which is perfectly fine, as long as it's within reason and not resorting to personal insults, flaming, or what have you. 

Not only that, but it's officially recorded on MetaCritic, affecting the average as it sees fit. So it gets the same scrutiny as any other review that does so. Even like the Digital Trends review that pretty much, most, if not near everyone clowned on for its blatant bad takes.

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4 hours ago, Slash said:

Speaking of which, they contradict themselves they then say these puzzles and challenges are nothing but boring pointless busywork. So which is it? Is the game nothing but button mashing or is it nothing but busy work?

Those aren't even contradictory statements, busywork can be accomplished through button mashing.

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35 minutes ago, Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon said:

I don't know why some people tend to default to the idea that whenever folk point out issues with a review that they note, that is suddenly amounts to "attacking the review".

There's scrutiny to be had, and has been mentioned prior so just reducing it to supposedly baseless attacks, doesn't make sense.

 

Are you going to address the actual argument or not?

 

 

4 hours ago, Slash said:

First they praise the combat here, then trash it in the 2022 video?!?! What gives!?!?

They may have realized that the combat is bad upon further consideration.

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1 hour ago, Wraith said:

The only thing steph said regarding Sonic Team's effort is that the creative decisions they made with the artstyle made the game look hacked together and lazy, which is straight up an observation I've seen in other places, including on this board before. It's just true. When you go so bog standard with your art design that you looked like you pulled from an asset pack it's going to look lazy no matter how much effort you actually put in behind the scenes.

The crazy thing is that earlier, I said that the amount of crappy looking steam games Steph has played probably plays into the fact that they may have felt it looks like an asset flip didn’t help their opinion.

TBH though, I’m not even sure I buy that it looks remotely like an asset flip anyway. That’s a pretty insulting comment to the game designers coming from them. No matter how they threw it out or in what manner, the intention was to be obnoxiously rude and they didn’t care. 

Ultimately though, it’s just a realistic design choice Sonic Team made to represent the make up of the Starfall island locales.

Juxtaposed against the special stages, it makes sense and actually works quite well IMO. Because really, despite it all this is visually quite a pretty game, (and I took in some lovely sights like I tend to enjoy doing in the open world games), there’s enough swanky alien looking temples and environments for me to be interested, and the musical pieces that went alongside the islands really helped to sell me on the locations, but then Sonic Team have never really faltered in that department.

When you consider what these places once were, who lived there, and how much time has passed - having beaten down areas does make sense.

The realIstic approach also lends itself to a grander sense of scale by design when exploring, fighting Titan Bosses as Super Sonic, and also that 4th area with the pillars. I mean, vertigo much? Damn, That was an intense ride of platforming and wanting to throw up from the sheer height of everything. 

That’s not to say that I still wouldn’t have preferred the art design of Unleashed or something cartoony like Lost World - but there wasn’t anything inherently wrong or offensive with what they brought to the table here IMHO. 

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Another review to add to the mix.

On 12/29/2022 at 7:23 PM, Sonicka said:

That’s not to say that I still wouldn’t have preferred the art design of Unleashed or something cartoony like Lost World - but there wasn’t anything inherently wrong or offensive with what they brought to the table here IMHO. 

Honestly, if the situation justifies it, then I'm relatively fine with the looks of a particular game.

Unleashed and Lost World each had their respective reasons for how environments looked.

Though, what makes me prefer Frontiers more than the two in looks department is that it seems like a look that lends itself to the anime blends of realism and cartoony, the likes of which, we saw back in the Adventure games.

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27 minutes ago, Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon said:

Another review to add to the mix.

Honestly, if the situation justifies it, then I'm relatively fine with the looks of a particular game.

Unleashed and Lost World each had their respective reasons for how environments looked.

Though, what makes me prefer Frontiers more than the two in looks department is that it seems like a look that lends itself to the anime blends of realism and cartoony, the likes of which, we saw back in the Adventure games.

I think the art style works fine for the tone they want to show.

I thought the art style from Lost World undermined the story a bit.

You had Eggman making threats of death and destruction all while punching Lego blocks.

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28 minutes ago, Slash said:

I think the art style works fine for the tone they want to show.

I thought the art style from Lost World undermined the story a bit.

You had Eggman making threats of death and destruction all while punching Lego blocks.

That's fair. It probably also didn't help Lost World that everywhere looked all cubical. If it had been just a point of Lost Hex being like that, wouldn't have minded as much, but it was jarring that even home down below looked off like that.

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Jirard, aka “The Completionist” has rated Sonic Frontiers (perhaps unsurprisingly after their review) one of his top 10 best games of 2022.

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Those review scores are just about right for Sonic Frontiers. I reviewed the game the other day on my channel giving It 3/5 score that's how I feel about the game.

My own YouTube review of Sonic Frontiers

 

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