Sonic Frontiers - Review Roundup.

[ZinogreVolt]

Ideally, you'd want to analyze every element of a game when you review it, regardless of how you might perceive their importance. That much is only fair. But if you didn't, it's also fair to say that you simply didn't find that specific part of the game worth discussing in detail. Where the Digital Trends review falls flat is that it pretty much reads as saying "by the way, the story sucks. moving on.", and that is just plain unfair. It's not coincidence that no other review that's been put out thus far just completely disregards the story like that.

[Kuzu]

13 minutes ago, light-gaia said:

Story is a part of the game. Just like soundtrack and graphics. So, they need to analyze these elements, too

They're the superficial aspects of the game that matter less than the gameplay.

[Soniman]

19 minutes ago, Jake_LeOFFICIAL said:

Not sure if anyone posted this yet but

A shame he didn't like it. To be honest I kinda expected that he would

He’s a tough critic with pretty high standards so no way in hell he was liking something like this. That’s fine, it’s a good video regardless (minus the usual “why is sonic serious” stuff but like I said, critics will not care)

[DaBigJ]

Honestly, Skill Up's video kind of confirmed a lot of stuff that I feared would be true. Combat is mashey, game's janky apparently, and overall it's rather lifeless.

Also, I'm sorry, but actually listening to Sonic's voice more...I don't like the direction they gave it anymore.

[VO.SUPER]

1 minute ago, Jake_LeOFFICIAL said:

Honestly, Skill Up's video kind of confirmed a lot of stuff that I feared would be true. Combat is mashey, game's janky apparently, and overall it's rather lifeless.

Also, I'm sorry, but actually listening to Sonic's voice more...I don't like the direction they gave it anymore.

You have been pouring over the leak thread, how could you fear what would be true if you've been hearing from everyone else trying it early?

[DaBigJ]

5 minutes ago, VO.SUPER said:

You have been pouring over the leak thread, how could you fear what would be true if you've been hearing from everyone else trying it early?

Maybe fear wasn't the right word. Sorry about that

[light-gaia]

Honestly, even though some elements are still flawed, they are better than most other 3D Sonic games and I think this is positive. For example, the combat lacks depth and strategy, but it's better than the enemies just standing there waiting to be run over by Sonic, or only serving as hpmming attack chains. Now they try to attack us and have various attack patterns. It's not like Generations, Colors and Forces that the enemies are basically useless.

The Super Sonic boost battles are a little janky, but they are better than every other Super Sonic battle and most 3D games, and arguably the 2D ones as well.

The boss battles last more than 20 seconds.

I think it's healthy they are experimenting new things, because I think the only way a new formula can be born is from experimentation. We have to remember that the boost formula only exists because of Sonic and the Secret Rings and the Rush series. It's basically a mix of Rush in the 2D sections with Secret Rings in the 3D sections. Secret Rings had a lot of jankieness. I think Frontiers is the new Secret Rings.

Of course, this will only matter if they stick with the open zone formula instead of starting from scratch in the next game...

[Wraith]

Instead of dismissing critic's who can't take sonic seriously, you should be trying to find out why that is and what adjustments could be made to create that emotional impact for a wider amount of players. I have very mixed feelings on both Sonic's history of telling emotionally complex narratives and the response to it, but the last thing I want is for it to become an insular mazes of references and hard to swallow presentation choices that only fans "get". It should be possible for a Sonic story to appeal to a wide range of players in the same way that the gameplay does. 

[Zoomzeta]

18 minutes ago, light-gaia said:

Honestly, even though some elements are still flawed, they are better than most other 3D Sonic games and I think this is positive. For example, the combat lacks depth and strategy, but it's better than the enemies just standing there waiting to be run over by Sonic, or only serving as hpmming attack chains. Now they try to attack us and have various attack patterns. It's not like Generations, Colors and Forces that the enemies are basically useless.

The Super Sonic boost battles are a little janky, but they are better than every other Super Sonic battle and most 3D games, and arguably the 2D ones as well.

The boss battles last more than 20 seconds.

I think it's healthy they are experimenting new things, because I think the only way a new formula can be born is from experimentation. We have to remember that the boost formula only exists because of Sonic and the Secret Rings and the Rush series. It's basically a mix of Rush in the 2D sections with Secret Rings in the 3D sections. Secret Rings had a lot of jankieness. I think Frontiers is the new Secret Rings.

Of course, this will only matter if they stick with the open zone formula instead of starting from scratch in the next game...

I don't think it's close to that. I think Unleashed is a more appropriate comparison in that regard. 

[light-gaia]

31 minutes ago, Wraith said:

Instead of dismissing critic's who can't take sonic seriously, you should be trying to find out why that is and what adjustments could be made to create that emotional impact for a wider amount of players. I have very mixed feelings on both Sonic's history of telling emotionally complex narratives and the response to it, but the last thing I want is for it to become an insular mazes of references and hard to swallow presentation choices that only fans "get". It should be possible for a Sonic story to appeal to a wide range of players in the same way that the gameplay does. 

If the critics don't provide arguments to support their claims, yes, I'll dismiss'em

26 minutes ago, Zoomzeta said:

I don't think it's close to that. I think Unleashed is a more appropriate comparison in that regard. 

But I think Sonic Unleashed was more polished. The boost formula was already close to perfection, and I think Unleashed is overall a better game, has better presentation, etc

[Whatever the WhoCares]

2 hours ago, Jake_LeOFFICIAL said:

Just shows the disconnect, haha. I'm amazed they haven't seem to gotten tired of Green Hill yet

Honestly, as long as Green Hill is treated more like a recurring locale than a recurring level, I’m okay with it constantly popping up. What I’m not okay with is seeing the same treatment for, well, any other theme. 
 

Regarding the cyberspace stages, it seems like Sega basically got away with the recycling of assets and layouts. Put yourself in the mindset of the less-engaged, and it makes sense. It’s been 11 years since the debut of the last Sonic game from which the assets are heavily pilfered- I mean if Far Cry 7 recycled a bunch of geometry from Far Cry 3, I can’t pretend I would notice- at least not consciously. So let’s cut the critics some slack in that area. 

[Ryannumber1gamer]

AntDude with the Digital Trends call out lol.

[pppp]

 

Based on what people are saying the problem I noticed back in June that nobody but me seems to notice is true: SEGA needs to actually give Sonic Team a AAA budget again. It's unacceptable that they keep saying they'll do better and yet they keep rushing the developers and not giving them the money they need to truly realize the potential of the series.

Sonic Unleashed still being the most aesthetically polished of the franchise after 14 years is ridiculous.

 

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

1 minute ago, pppp said:

SEGA needs to actually give Sonic Team a AAA budget again. It's unacceptable that they keep saying they'll do better and yet they keep rushing the developers and not giving them the money they need to truly realize the potential of the series.

That's definitely something SEGA needs to improve, among many other things.

No wonder Iizuka had to talk sense into them.

[Ryannumber1gamer]

PushSquare:

Quote

Sonic Frontiers feels like a statement from Sonic Team after years of being treated like a joke. By no means is it perfect, but this is exactly the injection of life the franchise needed after the misstep of Forces, and it's the freshest Sonic has felt since Adventure first hit the shelves. While it is wrought with minor issues, the overall package of Sonic Frontiers mostly hits the mark, with its satisfying gameplay, a storyline that will please long-time fans, and an absolutely phenomenal soundtrack. It immediately places itself among the best Sonic games ever made

8/10.

[Razule]

Welp, okay-to-good is a lot better than bad-to-mixed. It's a step in the right direction, but one of these days, I wish a Sonic game could just hit the mark right out of the gate instead of always saying "This could be the foundation of something better". 

[VO.SUPER]

3 minutes ago, Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon said:

That's definitely something SEGA needs to improve, among many other things.

No wonder Iizuka had to talk sense into them.

It was the 1 year delay that may have been the difference of a 5/10 game to a 7/10. Sheesh.

Spoiler

Yeah I took that from @Chili Dawg

 

  

1 minute ago, Razule said:

Welp, okay-to-good is a lot better than bad-to-mixed. It's a step in the right direction, but one of these days, I wish a Sonic game could just hit the mark right out of the gate instead of always saying "This could be the foundation of something better". 

We haven't even been able to say that since Gens. Lost World fell so flat on its face that the minor potential was obscure and Forces was absolutely anemic.

 

[Kuzu]

I feel like you could give Sonic Team all of the time and resources and we'd still get a similar result to Frontiers.

They're subpar developers guys lol. I still enjoy their output (to an extent) but if this is the result after a five year development cycle, with an extension at thay, what is a bigger budget going to change?

Why should Sega give them resources if Sonic Team can't get past just putting out average games?

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

Well, given how this is the first game in a while that they've apparently finally given Sonic Team the time to finish properly, and it's already leagues ahead of the previous installments, I dare say,  they're not just a faction to be written off as subpar developers.

Now, flawed? Maybe. But with Frontiers, they actually finally had the time to develop, playtest and refine things properly.

With a bigger budget, for starters, they probably wouldn't have to strain so much on resources.

Now, depending on how much one has liked Frontiers,  that can mean a variety of things, but I will hold that Frontiers is a potential sign of change for the better, most definitely. SEGA need to do their part in helping out their mascot franchise.

[DaBigJ]

Because 

You need more resources

To make good games?????

[VO.SUPER]

Just now, Kuzu said:

I feel like you could give Sonic Team all of the time and resources and we'd still get a similar result to Frontiers.

They're subpar developers guys lol. I still enjoy their output (to an extent) but if this is the result after a five year development cycle, with an extension at thay, what is a bigger budget going to change?

Why should Sega give them resources if Sonic Team can't get past just putting out average games?

They did make good on a lot of that time. For once they accepted Q&A testing, which is pretty uncommon for Japanese development. And they did focus on the most important part of a game, being the base control. A lot of what has fallen through for Frontiers has been a lot of smaller issues piling up into big annoyances, like the graphical presentation, and reuse of assets, a lot of which has probably been the result of scrapping development, and needing to fight for a delay. And I wouldn't doubt their hedgehog engine caused a lot of headaches when it came to things like the pop-in.

A bigger budget could allow for more staff on the team as well as continuation of flexible timeframes for development. Because if we go from this 5 year cycle back to when Sonic was coming out ever 2 or so years that will be a disaster in the waiting.                      

[ZinogreVolt]

Frontiers is the result of Sonic Team getting their shit together midway through development and scrambling to fix what was likely a pretty bad game foundationally. The cracks still show in the final product and despite all the feedback they've taken, they ultimately couldn't smooth its many rough edgess. It's not really a result of Sega getting in the way or not having enough time/budget, but because Frontiers sucked to start with, and they could only make it decent in the long run. 

That being said, the fact that the game is still a pretty good time despite noteworthy faults, and Sonic Team taking noteworthy feedback to improve considerably does leave me fairly hopeful for the next installment. This is assuming that they stick with the same style, of course. A bigger budget, bigger team, and more time would certainly help if they wanted to up the scale and variety even further.

[Ryannumber1gamer]

5 minutes ago, Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon said:

Well, given how this is the first game in a while that they've apparently finally given Sonic Team the time to finish properly, and it's already leagues ahead of the previous installments, I dare say,  they're not just a faction to be written off as subpar developers.

Now, flawed? Maybe. But with Frontiers, they actually finally had the time to develop, playtest and refine things properly.

With a bigger budget, for starters, they probably wouldn't have to strain so much on resources.

Now, depending on how much one has liked Frontiers,  that can mean a variety of things, but I will hold that Frontiers is a potential sign of change for the better, most definitely. SEGA need to do their part in helping out their mascot franchise.

On top of that, not to draw out the usual excuse, but we do kind of have to acknowledge that COVID did uproot at least a year, if not two years of that development time in order to shift everything towards remote working, on top of the game already trying a heap of new things, and trying to experiment around with a lot of new ideas, for better or worse. 

[Zoomzeta]

18 minutes ago, pppp said:

Based on what people are saying the problem I noticed back in June that nobody but me seems to notice is true: SEGA needs to actually give Sonic Team a AAA budget again. It's unacceptable that they keep saying they'll do better and yet they keep rushing the developers and not giving them the money they need to truly realize the potential of the series.

Sonic Unleashed still being the most aesthetically polished of the franchise after 14 years is ridiculous.

They did give them AAA budget. The problem is that they gave them a budget likely  dwarfed by what other Triple-AAA company give out right now. 

[Razule]

4 minutes ago, VO.SUPER said:

We haven't even been able to say that since Gens. Lost World fell so flat on its face that the minor potential was obscure and Forces was absolutely anemic.

Then we're back to it after they floundered around for a decade. It's something, now we just have to hope it only goes up from here. For the most part at least.. progress isn't linear, especially for Sonic Team.