Sonic Frontiers Story Dicussion (Full Spoilers)

[Razule]

1 hour ago, Diogenes said:

My point is that I can only believe the design similarites were forced in later, after they decided to connect two unrelated ideas. Sonic Team wanted to do this chaos emerald "origin" story and have them come from some hyperadvanced aliens, but instead of designing a new alien race someone tried to be clever and connect up some lore and said they should be Chaoses.

That's exactly what Flynn's idea was actually.

[JakeMorph]

15 hours ago, Diogenes said:

My point is that I can only believe the design similarites were forced in later, after they decided to connect two unrelated ideas. Sonic Team wanted to do this chaos emerald "origin" story and have them come from some hyperadvanced aliens, but instead of designing a new alien race someone tried to be clever and connect up some lore and said they should be Chaoses. But there's no mechanical or thematic connection between them to make it work, it starts and ends at "here's two ancient species who had some contact with the emeralds; surprise they're the same actually!". We don't see chao building giant mecha or the Ancients absorbing animal traits or eating emeralds to turn into kaiju; they can say all they want that one evolved/degenerated from the other, but they don't sell the idea, they're just too different in function. And instead of elevating SA's story, the new information giving us a richer understanding and appreciation of it, it just demystifies it. The chao are no longer some mystical fairy creatures protected by a force of nature, they're the idiot descendants of some space nerds. They midichlorianed my boy and I don't like it.

I guess 'the Ancients are tied to the emeralds' and 'the chao are tied to the emeralds' was just enough of a thematic connection to me. I do agree that the ancient angel babies being descended from actual aliens demystifies them somewhat, but I also felt like there was enough new mystery added to sell me on the idea; like, it's one thing to know that these beings of pure liquid energy came from "some other planet", but we still don't know why the chaos emeralds were on that planet, and presumably that ties into why the ancients were even made of pure liquid energy in the first place, etc... the existence of the chaos chao also always gave me the impression that "A Chaos" was just something that a chao could naturally evolve into through certain means, so when we found out there was a whole race of them it didn't strictly feel like new information to me, more like just seeing the other side of a coin.

I'll admit that the reveal that the ancients came to earth on for real star wars ships - instead of something more appropriate like, idk, portal rings? I don't know what would have felt more 'chao-appropriate' in the moment - did take me out of it a little bit, so I totally see where you're coming from. But I also get the feeling that when you're revisiting a storyline that hasn't been touched in 20 years, like the Sonic Adventure saga, you kind of need to make a big splash, shake things up, destroy some of the old mystique to make room for new questions and plot threads. All that being said, I can definitely understand the preference for the themes from the older games to be continued in a more organic way.

[Kuzu]

 

So to put the Eggman shit to bed I guess and while this is no confirmation of what Sega would do, in Flynn's mind he feels like Sage would make Eggman act even worse as a villain now that he has someone he's willing to go the extra mile for. And he questions why people thought Sage "turned good" in the end. 

 

So that alleviates one of my potential problems...although I think it kind of makes Sage's entire arc somewhat pointless if she's just gonna be as bad as Eggman, but whatever. 

[Dr. Mechano]

22 minutes ago, Kuzu said:

So to put the Eggman shit to bed I guess and while this is no confirmation of what Sega would do, in Flynn's mind he feels like Sage would make Eggman act even worse as a villain now that he has someone he's willing to go the extra mile for. And he questions why people thought Sage "turned good" in the end. 

That's the ideal way to go in my opinion. And if Ian's sticking around as a writer, hopefully that's the direction he pulls their dynamic in.

I'm thrilled. Eggman gets to have his character development and remain just as nefarious as ever otherwise. You might say that's having your cake and eating it too, but that's honestly on-brand for Eggman.

[PickleBrows]

I feel like part of Sage's arc was to come around to Eggman's relationship with Sonic and and seemed to be influenced more by Sonic's relationships with his friends than his overall morality and world outlook.

Sage starts out entirely cold and calculating, refusing to even speak to Sonic unless she absolutely has to, whereas Eggman will glady gloat. She even needs Eggman to explain what the deal is with his seemingly conflicting opinions of Sonic. Over the course of the game she begins to have longer interactions with Sonic while also becoming more attached to Eggman as she begins to desire a family unit of her own.

I think by the end of the game Sage is still firmly on team Eggman, now out of love rather than simply function. She differs from Eggman in that she doesn't hate Sonic, and has gained the same respect for him that she initially couldn't even understand. She's far more open-minded than Eggman, more willing to temporarily team up with Sonic if it's clearly beneficial. If he still insists on interfering with Eggman's business, and of course he will, then she'll still do whatever is necessary to prevent it.

The dynamic between these 3 becomes a bit more complicated as a result but...good? We're in a different place than we were at the start of the game, without completely destroying the status quo the series will always maintain on some level.

Depending on when the upcoming DLC takes place we might see some of this come into effect. If not, maybe next game depending on how big Sage's role is in the story. Whenever she does next get focus, there's plenty of directions to take her in.

[GentlemanX]

1 hour ago, Kuzu said:

And he questions why people thought Sage "turned good" in the end. 

So that alleviates one of my potential problems...although I think it kind of makes Sage's entire arc somewhat pointless if she's just gonna be as bad as Eggman, but whatever. 

Ian mentions that Sage did have the arc... but then she "blowed up". He notes that whatever form she came back as at the end of the game was created under Eggman's guidance. Given the previous question also hinted we'll find out more about the mystery symbol in next year's DLC and the symbol is seen when Eggman brings Sage back, I think there's a strong possibility we'll have a better idea on the current status quo for both Eggman and Sage after we get that story content. Better at this time to just assume Frontiers's story isn't finished yet.

[Kuzu]

Isn't it kind of fucked up if he essentially reformatted her to undo all of the development she had with Sonic.

[Dr. Mechano]

7 minutes ago, Kuzu said:

Isn't it kind of fucked up if he essentially reformatted her to undo all of the development she had with Sonic.

We don't know what exactly happened yet. Ian was pretty nonspecific.

[Kuzu]

10 minutes ago, Dr. Mechano said:

We don't know what exactly happened yet. Ian was pretty nonspecific.

I'm just speculating.

 

 

I mean If he did it, that's actually great and true to Eggman's character. I'll take back everything I said about Frontiers if they go through with that.

[MetalSkulkBane]

It sounded to me like the upcoming DLC will shed more light on it.

Overall I suspected as much, but I still can't imagine Sage helping Eggman in his most cruel moments... which to be fair means mostly IDW.

[Kuzu]

17 minutes ago, MetalSkulkBane said:

It sounded to me like the upcoming DLC will shed more light on it.

Overall I suspected as much, but I still can't imagine Sage helping Eggman in his most cruel moments... which to be fair means mostly IDW.

Can't see why not at this point. 

[Razule]

Can't wait to see Sonic in IDW trying to appeal to her goodness like he does Metal Sonic.

[Sega DogTagz]

Unlike Metal, She is crafty enough to use it against him.

 

She kinda knows he'll pull his punches, which will probably make her Eggman's most effective enforcer by default lol.

[The Deleter]

59 minutes ago, MetalSkulkBane said:

It sounded to me like the upcoming DLC will shed more light on it.

Overall I suspected as much, but I still can't imagine Sage helping Eggman in his most cruel moments... which to be fair means mostly IDW.

Kyle was wondering the same question as well, as he came away with the impression that SAGE was good by the end of Frontiers, as others would have as well. Ian's response was that "she blowed up", and that he brought back "some form" of her. Cruelty is back on the menu for SAGE, which Ian actually doesn't disagree is inconsistent with end-game SAGE; it just doesn't have any bearing on current SAGE either.

[juiceDpunk983]

I wonder if we'll see The End return. It can't be truly dead if it's Infinite and nothing at the same time. Perhaps, it'll come back in the DLC or a sequel. Imagine Super Sonic not being enough, so he upgrades the emeralds again to turn Hyper instead, for a fighting chance. The End is probably at the same level as Solaris, maybe stronger.

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

2 minutes ago, juiceDpunk983 said:

I wonder if we'll see The End return. It can't be truly dead if it's Infinite and nothing at the same time. Perhaps, it'll come back in the DLC or a sequel. Imagine Super Sonic not being enough, so he upgrades the emeralds again to turn Hyper instead, for a fighting chance. The End is probably at the same level as Solaris, maybe stronger.

I wonder if the DLC will explore whatever Eggman's plans for the power he was wished to attain, or exploring was. Could tie in to him trying to properly control The End or energy possibly left over from her/his destruction.

[juiceDpunk983]

25 minutes ago, Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon said:

I wonder if the DLC will explore whatever Eggman's plans for the power he was wished to attain, or exploring was. Could tie in to him trying to properly control The End or energy possibly left over from her/his destruction.

Yeah that sounds alright. Didn't have too much of Eggman in the game, so it'd be nice to see more of the egg and what his actual master plan was.

[Zadent]

I might’ve missed it, did we ever find out what the mysterious symbol from the original teaser and that we see in the sky means?

[Razule]

37 minutes ago, Zadent said:

I might’ve missed it, did we ever find out what the mysterious symbol from the original teaser and that we see in the sky means?

Nope

[Sega DogTagz]

Eggman didn't know about The End and only learned about the ancients secrets as he explored his digital prison. His original plan for the islands couldn't have been much more than "acquire strange technology" and then figure out how to weaponize it.

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

12 minutes ago, Sega DogTagz said:

Eggman didn't know about The End and only learned about the ancients secrets as he explored his digital prison. His original plan for the islands couldn't have been much more than "acquire strange technology" and then figure out how to weaponize it.

So, my point is that, perhaps for the DLC, we'll see how he might go about weaponizing it for his own gains.

[Cooldude]

This is is my first post. But I've played my share of Sonic games, although I have to admit I haven't play one recently until Frontiers. The last one I played was Forces...and I was rather underwhelmed by that game overall to be honest and its story didn't impressed me either.

Which was why I am so surprised when I got moved by Frontier's story. Sage's development as a character from a robotic A.I program at the start to an almost human at the end was nice. And I liked how Knucles, Tails and Amy get their bit of character growth as well. In fact, I am shocked to say Frontiers has one of the best story of any Sonic game. Credit must be given to Ian Flynn for that. So I tip my hat to Flynn for a  job well done.