Sonic Frontiers Story Dicussion (Full Spoilers)

[Kuzu]

It kind of sucks because you're taking away Sonic's strongest foil. And if this game commits to the group going their separate ways, then that's Tails, Knuckles and Amy gone too.

 

If the next game commits to an entirely original supporting cast and antagonists, I wouldn't mind.

[SenEDDtor Missile]

2 minutes ago, Kuzu said:

Because Eggman & Sage honestly have the most depth in this game lol.

Not that Sonic, Tails, Amy, and Knuckles are bad, but their stuff is just things we knew but reiterated.

And it comes from nothing within the game itself.

I think part of that stems from the fact that we don't really know if the character growth potential for Sonic, Tails, Amy, and Knuckles will be fulfilled in any significant fashion. Something I've noted about this franchise is that people tend to have a bit of a conniption if any of the above (or indeed, a large chunk of the cast) ever strays too far from a very specific defined role and characterization, even if said straying is the result of character progression or expansion.

Like yeah, I get such things aren't always comfortable, but being stagnant and stuck in place isn't much fun either, and it just runs into the problem of hamstringing their characters just for the sake of preserving (sometimes blindly) a perceived "correct" characterization.

Eggman's character is always allowed to be more dynamic probably because his threshold of what he's allowed to do and get away with is much bigger.

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

14 minutes ago, Kuzu said:

It kind of sucks because you're taking away Sonic's strongest foil. And if this game commits to the group going their separate ways, then that's Tails, Knuckles and Amy gone too.

If the next game commits to an entirely original supporting cast and antagonists, I wouldn't mind.

Why not give some of the benchwarmers like Team Dark, Blaze, Silver, Chaotix or whatnot a chance to be the supporting cast all close and personal.

Spin 'em in and out like a roulette.

[Kuzu]

12 minutes ago, SenEDDtor Missile said:

I think part of that stems from the fact that we don't really know if the character growth potential for Sonic, Tails, Amy, and Knuckles will be fulfilled in any significant fashion. Something I've noted about this franchise is that people tend to have a bit of a conniption if any of the above (or indeed, a large chunk of the cast) ever strays too far from a very specific defined role and characterization, even if said straying is the result of character progression or expansion.

Like yeah, I get such things aren't always comfortable, but being stagnant and stuck in place isn't much fun either, and it just runs into the problem of hamstringing their characters just for the sake of preserving (sometimes blindly) a perceived "correct" characterization.

Eggman's character is always allowed to be more dynamic probably because his threshold of what he's allowed to do and get away with is much bigger.

And even then what I think they did with Eggman in this game goes a little too far. People just don't care because he's not a furry :V

 

But yea, its the issue of long standing iconic characters; you can't change them so much that they become unrecognizable (like they arguably did with Eggman here) but if you don't change enough, it'll feel like nothing has actually progressed.

Its something comic books call "The illusion of change." basically the writing of fooling the reader into thinking things are progressing without actually changing anything.

Sonic fans (and hard-core fans of anything in general) are fickle as shit; they want change, but still want things to be familiar too.

 

its why Sonic stories tend to be so divisive; they either change too much or don't change enough.

[StaticMania]

Sonic characters shouldn't have arcs that lead to a definitive "end"...

That either leads to them existing without a purpose or just being boring even if it was logical for them to stick around.

The best type of stories for a Sonic character is one that plays to their existing positive traits in new & interesting ways, not ones that only serve to "fix" character flaws.

---

Character Progression simply needs to lead to more interesting paths for a character to explore.

Like...Knuckles actually coming to the decision to leave his island and go on adventures of his own, he could've taken this path as early as SA1 if the Master Emerald stayed destroyed or if Chaos leaving ended up making the Master Emerald powerless other than to counter balance the Chaos Emerald.

This doesn't get rid of his actual traits, like beefing with Sonic, wanting to primarily work alone, and being a overly trusting goof...but it does play to the aspect of his character which is both in and out of universe restrictive and caused him to be the way he is to begin with.

[Kuzu]

1 minute ago, Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon said:

Why not give some of the benchwarmers like Team Dark, Blaze, Silver, Chaotix or whatnot a chance to be the supporting cast all close and personal.

Spin 'em in and out like a roulette.

Because then you risk Sonic being overshadowed in this own game like before.

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

Just now, Kuzu said:

Because then you risk Sonic being overshadowed in this own game like before.

Well, obviously the solution is to not repeat 06's error like that.

[Kuzu]

4 minutes ago, Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon said:

Well, obviously the solution is to not repeat 06's error like that.

That's easier said than done; with the exception of Shadow and Blaze, Sonic doesn't have much of a dynamic with the rest of the cast outside of his inner circle.

Its not a coincidence that the most popular characters are the ones with a close dynamic with Sonic...since he's the center of all of this anyway.

[Dr. Mechano]

1 minute ago, Kuzu said:

That's easier said than done; with the exception of Shadow and Blaze, Sonic doesn't have much of a dynamic with the rest of the cast outside of his inner circle.

They could fix that by making a point of having him interact with more characters of course.

Frontiers almost seems to imply this could indeed happen, with Team Sonic temporarily going their separate ways and all.

(Assuming they're not just doing a timeskip sort of thing where the gang just immediately reunites after an unseen period has passed, which would be kinda lame.)

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

1 minute ago, Kuzu said:

That's easier said than done; with the exception of Shadow and Blaze, Sonic doesn't have much of a dynamic with the rest of the cast outside of his inner circle.

I mean, Sonic hasn't really been overshadowed in a game ever since 06. And games past that point have had those characters in it.

As for the lack of dynamic,  that brings with it, the opportunity for Sonic to better establish relationships with characters outside the norm.

[Kuzu]

11 minutes ago, Dr. Mechano said:

They could fix that by making a point of having him interact with more characters of course.

Frontiers almost seems to imply this could indeed happen, with Team Sonic temporarily going their separate ways and all.

(Assuming they're not just doing a timeskip sort of thing where the gang just immediately reunites after an unseen period has passed, which would be kinda lame.)

 

10 minutes ago, Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon said:

I mean, Sonic hasn't really been overshadowed in a game ever since 06. And games past that point have had those characters in it.

As for the lack of dynamic,  that brings with it, the opportunity for Sonic to better establish relationships with characters outside the norm.

Because none of those characters have mattered since 06.

As for the second point, I'll address both of you here.

I don't want Sonic's usual crew to be replaced. We already have issues with balancing Shadow and Knuckles as rivals/allies with Sonic, I'd rather not repeat that again......unless you really want to anyway. 

If they can give Eggman a child, then go full scorched earth at this point.

 

But I also don't want Sonic disrupting other dynamics too; the Chaotix just aren't the same if Sonic is with them. The point is that they're losers, and Sonic is anything but.

 

[Dr. Mechano]

1 minute ago, Kuzu said:

I don't want Sonic's usual crew to be replaced. 

Me either.

Frontiers offers repeated reassurance that the group splitting is temporary, and that they'll meet again.

Sonic's main allies won't be replaced - just separated for a finite amount of time so they can grow on their own. (Hopefully in side-stories that we actually get to see; if not full games, then at least comic miniseries or something.)

[Kuzu]

3 minutes ago, Dr. Mechano said:

Me either.

Frontiers offers repeated reassurance that the group splitting is temporary, and that they'll meet again.

Sonic's main allies won't be replaced - just separated for a finite amount of time so they can grow on their own. (Hopefully in side-stories that we actually get to see; if not full games, then at least comic miniseries or something.)

No I meant in the sense that I don't think the other supporting cast should be filling those roles, partially because they already occupy other roles unrelated to Sonic.

 

That's why I said I prefer a new cast altogether if Team Sonic is temporarily put on hold and Eggman being out on paternal leave.

[VO.SUPER]

I'd be happy if this led to character specific spin-offs again like we got in the Genesis/Game Gear days. Even if they are smaller games not given to Sonic Team and such. Have the characters go through their own team dynamics and influence their own narratives without stepping over each other narratively.

Another Knuckles' Chaotix or a Tails' Adventure would be welcome for me.

 

  

8 minutes ago, Kuzu said:

No I meant in the sense that I don't think the other supporting cast should be filling those roles, partially because they already occupy other roles unrelated to Sonic.

That's why I said I prefer a new cast altogether if Team Sonic is temporarily put on hold and Eggman being out on paternal leave.

I mean, Team Sonic is just an arbitrary group of friends who get together to beat off bad guys but without the commitment of a Justice League. Or even the Freedom Fighters, but a lot of media seems to treat them like they are replacements of the FF. They should be able to go separate ways and flourish there.

Sonic himself is always best when he's inspiring others to grow rather than being some anchor that people latch on to. That was always one of the flaws I found with the team dynamic in prior games, that everyone just sort of stuck to him as an anchor and lost a lot of agency to give way to him, or absolutely overshadowed him.

 

[Kuzu]

@VO.SUPERWell Sonic is still the protagonist at the end of the day, so the games are going to focus on him no matter what.

I do agree that he inspires others to find their own paths...hence why the series should start actually introducing new characters for him to inspire...

Like,  you can't say you want these characters to flourish but still want them to play the same roles they always do. 

Like I said, just have a new cast; but nobody is going to want that because it means they won't see their favorites as much. And let's be real here, there are very few characters who can carry a story without Sonic around.

Shadow and Knuckles? Absolutely. Tails and Amy? Probably not without a lot of heavy lifting.

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

35 minutes ago, Kuzu said:

As for the second point, I'll address both of you here.

I don't want Sonic's usual crew to be replaced. We already have issues with balancing Shadow and Knuckles as rivals/allies with Sonic, I'd rather not repeat that again......unless you really want to anyway. 

If they can give Eggman a child, then go full scorched earth at this point.

But I also don't want Sonic disrupting other dynamics too; the Chaotix just aren't the same if Sonic is with them. The point is that they're losers, and Sonic is anything but.

Well, obviously no one's  really opting to replace the regular Sonic crew. But this doesn't mean that we can't have ventures that don't necessarily always feature them heavily. 

And I still hold that ot could be interesting to better flesh out and see how he interacts with certain characters he hasn't always really gotten much of a chance to with.

That was actually a pretty cool feature in Chronicles of all games (despite its many shortcomings).

That being said.....

36 minutes ago, Kuzu said:

That's why I said I prefer a new cast altogether if Team Sonic is temporarily put on hold and Eggman being out on paternal leave.

If we're maybe having Sonic interact with a "new" cast, arguably,  characters from the comics could kill two birds with one stone.

Drum up their relationships and let the gaming faction get to know them better.

It would actually be pretty neat if the next game is something of a tour around this connected canon in the wake of recent events in-universe.

[ZinogreVolt]

1 hour ago, Kuzu said:

It kind of sucks because you're taking away Sonic's strongest foil. And if this game commits to the group going their separate ways, then that's Tails, Knuckles and Amy gone too.

If the next game commits to an entirely original supporting cast and antagonists, I wouldn't mind.

Perfect excuse for a new storybook game, or something. If they don't wanna immediately jump into the kind-of-maybe-implied time skip, they could definitely fill in that space with some misadventures of Sonic doing other stuff with other people elsewhere. With the past few games being mostly centered around the core cast and a handful of new villains, it'd make for a pretty good change of pace.

[Kuzu]

Put Surge In  

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

3 minutes ago, Kuzu said:

Put Surge In  

Now you're talking!

 

3 minutes ago, ZinogreVolt said:

Perfect excuse for a new storybook game, or something.

I still want that Wild West storybook game SEGA.

[MGA_Gamer]

11 hours ago, Kuzu said:

It kind of sucks because you're taking away Sonic's strongest foil. And if this game commits to the group going their separate ways, then that's Tails, Knuckles and Amy gone too.

If the next game commits to an entirely original supporting cast and antagonists, I wouldn't mind

[MGA_Gamer]

Even if it’s only temporary, I don’t fancy waiting 7-10 years before getting to see Tails reunited with Sonic!

Sure, if they have him starring in a spinoff game or comic I wouldn’t mind as much, but those aren’t guaranteed either. 
 
I seriously don’t know if I would even survive an entire decade without my favourite fox boi!

[Kuzu]

You'll be alright

[Dr. Mechano]

8 minutes ago, MGA_Gamer said:

Even if it’s only temporary, I don’t fancy waiting 7-10 years before getting to see Tails reunited with Sonic!

Sure, if they have him a spinoff game or Comic I wouldn’t mind as much, but those aren’t guaranteed either. 
 
I seriously don’t know if I would even survive an entire decade without my favourite fox boi!

Try not to worry yourself.

Tails is the deuteragonist of the series. They are not going to greatly diminish his role in the series.

But either way, worrying for the next few years until we get the next announcement can't be good for you. Try to enjoy the games and spinoff material he's already in, and remember, there's more works featuring him on the way such as Sonic Prime.

[Kuzu]

4 minutes ago, Dr. Mechano said:

Try not to worry yourself.

Tails is the deuteragonist of the series. They are not going to greatly diminish his role in the series.

But either way, worrying for the next few years until we get the next announcement can't be good for you. Try to enjoy the games and spinoff material he's already in, and remember, there's more works featuring him on the way such as Sonic Prime.

They've done it before to be fair. 

[Ricochet]

An example of supporting characters done right is Piranha bytes's Gothic and its sequel. Each one of them are mostly pursuing their own business and have contrasting interests between them.

You are mostly on your own during the main quest and stumble across them pretty often specially If sharing a common goal, so they end up helping you out along the road for a while, and since the game difficulty is kinda unforgiving early on their cooperation is pretty valuable, plus you get to know them aswell.

A sense of comradery is developed as you progress, and they end up becoming your "gang of bros", all of this without following you around yapping all the time.

Pretty janky game but the story is self-contained and you navigate through tight but a seamless map, so in many aspect I do see its design compatible with the current direction Sonic is taking with frontiers.

Regardless, Im yet to play the game, but wrapping Sonic through his friends memory lane for them to obnoxiously emphasize "I wanna do my own, pls sanic notice me" seems really pointless.