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Is it possible for toxic fans to leave a franchise?


Rabbitearsblog

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This is kind of a silly question, as the answer is indefinitely a yes.

However

There's an * to that answer, as while they CAN leave, they tend to chose not to due to either loyalty or the desire to hope for improvement.

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39 minutes ago, DaBigJ said:

This is kind of a silly question, as the answer is indefinitely a yes.

However

There's an * to that answer, as while they CAN leave, they tend to chose not to due to either loyalty or the desire to hope for improvement.

I ask this because toxic fans tend to ruin the franchise's name and maybe if they leave, then maybe the franchise's name will be saved (although said franchise have to be consistently good to maintain a good image also).

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People, toxic and non-toxic, leave and enter the fanbase every day as they live their lives as complicated individuals, what you're asking about is sort of impossible to track or quantify.  So the answer is "yes, it already happens, but it won't affect anything", because change in a franchise's reputation is incredibly slow too.  We're only barely into a consistent era of people mostly dropping the idea that Sonic games are more likely to be bad than good which Shadow/2006 brought in (and it's only thanks to Sonic Mania that Sonic Boom didn't revitalise that attitude for another decade) and approaching each game with neutrality recently.

If you're proposing the idea of "what if all the toxic fans left at once?" You may as well be asking "what if everyone in the world decided to be nice?".  You can't really control how people live and act in that way so it's not an especially productive hypothetical.  People are going to be unpleasant sometimes, that's just humanity for you.  Not that it doesn't suck (and I should clarify just in case that gets taken the wrong way: the people who are all "people are mean, that's life, deal with it" to justify their adding to the problem by being mean themselves, those people suck extra hard).

 

Also just for a refreshing breath of fresh air, I consulted my non-Sonic fan partner on this subject and she brutally replied with "I don't think Sonic's reputation is really that tied to the fanbase, I think most people don't even know Sonic fans exist."  Which is to say the problem this topic percieves is kind of exclusive to our nerdy online bubble, just to keep things in perspective (of course it's fine to be upset of a particular perception within said bubble).

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I find the idea of a "toxic fanbase" kinda ridiculous, as it's impossible to compare. We have zero numbers.

Go ahead, google "toxic fanbase" + the name of a franchise that is
- large
- aimed at tweens/teenagers
Star wars, pony, Sonic, Potter, you'll always find someone complaining about toxicity.

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13 hours ago, JezMM said:

People, toxic and non-toxic, leave and enter the fanbase every day as they live their lives as complicated individuals, what you're asking about is sort of impossible to track or quantify.  So the answer is "yes, it already happens, but it won't affect anything", because change in a franchise's reputation is incredibly slow too.  We're only barely into a consistent era of people mostly dropping the idea that Sonic games are more likely to be bad than good which Shadow/2006 brought in (and it's only thanks to Sonic Mania that Sonic Boom didn't revitalise that attitude for another decade) and approaching each game with neutrality recently.

If you're proposing the idea of "what if all the toxic fans left at once?" You may as well be asking "what if everyone in the world decided to be nice?".  You can't really control how people live and act in that way so it's not an especially productive hypothetical.  People are going to be unpleasant sometimes, that's just humanity for you.  Not that it doesn't suck (and I should clarify just in case that gets taken the wrong way: the people who are all "people are mean, that's life, deal with it" to justify their adding to the problem by being mean themselves, those people suck extra hard).

Also just for a refreshing breath of fresh air, I consulted my non-Sonic fan partner on this subject and she brutally replied with "I don't think Sonic's reputation is really that tied to the fanbase, I think most people don't even know Sonic fans exist."  Which is to say the problem this topic percieves is kind of exclusive to our nerdy online bubble, just to keep things in perspective (of course it's fine to be upset of a particular perception within said bubble).

I guess I was worried that a toxic fan being in a fanbase would affect the reputation of a franchise.  But, I guess that's not the case since most people don't pay much attention to these types of fans.  Sure, there are toxic fans that are very vocal, but hopefully, most people just don't pay them any attention.

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On 12/10/2022 at 3:29 AM, Rabbitearsblog said:

Like just putting out consistently good content?

For Sonic? Maybe, but other fanbases aren't so lucky.

I won't go into detail here, but I'm in a fandom for a little rhythm game you can find on Newgrounds....and let me tell you, it'll take more than toxic fans leaving for the fandom to be seen in a good light.

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2 hours ago, DaBigJ said:

For Sonic? Maybe, but other fanbases aren't so lucky.

I won't go into detail here, but I'm in a fandom for a little rhythm game you can find on Newgrounds....and let me tell you, it'll take more than toxic fans leaving for the fandom to be seen in a good light.

Yeah, at least with Sonic, as long as he has some form of good content, whether it be the movies, TV shows, comics or the games themselves, then people are more willing to overlook the more toxic fans of the fanbase.

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The word "toxic" can mean so much these days that it barely means anything. Some people would describe toxic fans as fans who are overtly negative, others as fans who are overtly protective and paranoid, others as fans with certain political opinions, others as fans who sexualize or do something else thats considered inappropriate with the franchise, and others as fans who are simply jerks. All of the above types of fans exist in all fanbases, and no, there is no way to get rid of them.

As for the Sonic fanbase specifically, if there is one type of fan who can by some de considered toxic that is perhapes genuinly more common in this fanbase than in many others, it's the extremely negative fan. The fan who still calls themselves a Sonic fan but who dislikes a lot or most of what the franchise has to offer. However, I fully believe that if this is the case, then it is SEGA's fault. Of course a franchise that pumps out mediocre to godawful products time after time after time is going to have a fanbase filled with negativity in a way that a franchise who mostly churns out good products is not going to have. The only way that fans are going to be more positive towards the series as a whole, which would in turn create a generally more positive vide within the fanbase, is if SEGA once and for all stops releasing crappy and unfinished products. Yeah sure, right now everyone are relieved that Frontiers didn't suck, but we know for damn sure that one decent new game does not indicate that another decent game is on the horizon. In this series, a decent game doesn't indicate anyting at all. In this series, a new game can be decent or downright great and yet the very next game can be terrible. Even after the winning streak of three really good main series games in a row with Unleashed, Colors and generations, SEGA still slipped on the banana peel yet again with Lost World, and then for a while it only got worse from there.

In short, the most important recipie for removing negativity and in some sense of the word toxicity from the fanbase is for SEGA to stop giving people garbage that does nothing but fuel negative emotions.

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2 hours ago, batson said:

The word "toxic" can mean so much these days that it barely means anything.

That's an interesting angle to consider. Did anyone here ever meet a toxic Sonic fan?

I only did it when I intentionally looked for them. I mean, I meet annoying fans who can't shut up about character X, but I don't think anyone would tag this as "toxic".

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Yeah, I'm not crazy about the "toxic" label due to how vague it is.

I will say this: There are definitely "fans" who aren't really enjoying the series they obsess over. People who keep up with everything a franchise does, but hate nearly everything about it... yet are unable to pull themselves away, because maybe at one time, they did like it. Or there's still a small, sparkling glimmer of potential they still see in the series, if only it would just do things differently.

They miss out on innumerable other series that they'd probably enjoy a lot more by spending so much of their time on a series that clearly isn't for them.

I used to be like that. When the Sonic series was going exactly the opposite of what I wanted it to do in the mid-to-late 00s, I stuck around through it all, loudly complaining about every single thing the series did. I turned into this guy:

image.png

Eventually Sonic started doing things the way I liked again, but in hindsight, I should have taken a break. Just chilled out and played other things for a few years. I don't think "toxic" is the right word for that phenomenon, but it's definitely a self-destructive sort of "fandom" that I can't recommend enough not to engage in.

If you thoroughly aren't enjoying something, walk away. At least for a little while. Go enjoy other things, and don't feel like you have to stick around for a series that just isn't doing it for you anymore. It might be just for a little while, or depending on the series, it might be permanent. But ultimately, putting some distance between yourself and something you aren't having fun with anymore is the best thing to do.

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2 hours ago, Dr. Mechano said:

Yeah, I'm not crazy about the "toxic" label due to how vague it is.

I will say this: There are definitely "fans" who aren't really enjoying the series they obsess over. People who keep up with everything a franchise does, but hate nearly everything about it... yet are unable to pull themselves away, because maybe at one time, they did like it. Or there's still a small, sparkling glimmer of potential they still see in the series, if only it would just do things differently.

They miss out on innumerable other series that they'd probably enjoy a lot more by spending so much of their time on a series that clearly isn't for them.

I used to be like that. When the Sonic series was going exactly the opposite of what I wanted it to do in the mid-to-late 00s, I stuck around through it all, loudly complaining about every single thing the series did. I turned into this guy:

image.png

Eventually Sonic started doing things the way I liked again, but in hindsight, I should have taken a break. Just chilled out and played other things for a few years. I don't think "toxic" is the right word for that phenomenon, but it's definitely a self-destructive sort of "fandom" that I can't recommend enough not to engage in.

If you thoroughly aren't enjoying something, walk away. At least for a little while. Go enjoy other things, and don't feel like you have to stick around for a series that just isn't doing it for you anymore. It might be just for a little while, or depending on the series, it might be permanent. But ultimately, putting some distance between yourself and something you aren't having fun with anymore is the best thing to do.

Yeah, I agree that it's better to just take a break from a franchise if you aren't enjoying it like you used to.  That's what's happening with me and the X-Men franchise as I didn't like what was going on in the comics recently and I actually felt much better taking a break from that franchise until it gets to a point where I'll be engaged in it again.

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4 hours ago, SolidSurgeTT said:

I got myself in some trouble around here for being overly negative.

Didn't think I'd get any grief for it but...eh.

It's like fans can go too far into one direction at times when it comes to seeing the negative or positive side of a franchise.  If you are being too positive about a franchise's direction, then some fans would cry out that you are being too generous with the franchise and that you are not looking at the big picture here.  And if you are being too negative about a franchise, then some fans would cry out that you just hate the franchise and that you shouldn't be a fan in the first place.  It can be frustrating trying to get your points across without somebody overacting to your statements. 

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18 hours ago, Dr. Mechano said:

Eventually Sonic started doing things the way I liked again, but in hindsight, I should have taken a break. Just chilled out and played other things for a few years.

That's good advice BUT during Colors-Boom period I tried just that. And found zilch.

For me, Sonic is world of epic adventure with a large colorful cast and tone that can do both fun and serious.

Mario can't do "serious", his cast is large but shallow.
Zelda's lack of continuity misses the point of a large world.
Metroid doesn't do "large cast".
Mega Man lacks variety.
Crash is far too comedic.
Jak & Daxter is color.
Sly Cooper isn't an "epic adventure".

I genuinely don't think there is the second franchise like Sonic (at least in terms that drew me in the first place).

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You wanna talk about toxic? Try League of Legends.

There are nuclear test sites less toxic than that franchise, and very few of you would last a week (or a day) with that community which would outshine years of the toxicity you might've encountered in the Sonic Fandom.

Seriously, the attitudes there will get you banned quicker than Sonic could say "gotta go fast" because of how infamous its playerbase is, to the point that there's now a "zero-tolerance policy" (after almost 20 years) of what you can and can't say.

...which really makes one wonder why I still play the games, but I guess that's attributes to how solid its model is to keep me in for this long.

Mind you, this is just the game. The franchise is a bit more complex than that since the rise of Arcane and Valorant (which isn't exactly part of League of Legends than it is made by the same company), and it'll likely get even more complex with new entries on the horizon in the upcoming future.

Other than that, there's maybe the CoD games, and I wanna say hero-shooters like Overwatch...but I haven't really played the latter to know for sure.

As far as Toxic Sonic Fans go, the only thing I would consider genuinely Toxic is the fan that wants to keep others from enjoying the franchise. We know that is, and we know what it looks like--it's best epitomized by the reception Shadow gets between rabid fanboys who refuse to STFU in treating the character like god over everyone else's favorites (like geez, he peaked more than 2 decades ago, and--while there's plenty to do with him--we still have jackasses that go about this crap), rabid haters shitting on him and anyone who likes him regardless of whether they're fanboys or not, and those with actual common courtesy whether they like the character or not having these types of assholes representing them. Or Purists in general--fuck you, I've dealt with you assholes (and you're welcome to be a hit dog that hollers if you want to).

But aside from the occasional jerk being an intentional asshole because apparently that's more fun that touching grass...what would you really consider toxic? Seriously? It's rather difficult to just put everything that gets a negative light as toxic.

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On 12/14/2022 at 8:30 PM, CrownSlayer’s Shadow said:

You wanna talk about toxic? Try League of Legends.

There are nuclear test sites less toxic than that franchise, and very few of you would last a week (or a day) with that community which would outshine years of the toxicity you might've encountered in the Sonic Fandom.

Seriously, the attitudes there will get you banned quicker than Sonic could say "gotta go fast" because of how infamous its playerbase is, to the point that there's now a "zero-tolerance policy" (after almost 20 years) of what you can and can't say.

...which really makes one wonder why I still play the games, but I guess that's attributes to how solid its model is to keep me in for this long.

Mind you, this is just the game. The franchise is a bit more complex than that since the rise of Arcane and Valorant (which isn't exactly part of League of Legends than it is made by the same company), and it'll likely get even more complex with new entries on the horizon in the upcoming future.

Other than that, there's maybe the CoD games, and I wanna say hero-shooters like Overwatch...but I haven't really played the latter to know for sure.

As far as Toxic Sonic Fans go, the only thing I would consider genuinely Toxic is the fan that wants to keep others from enjoying the franchise. We know that is, and we know what it looks like--it's best epitomized by the reception Shadow gets between rabid fanboys who refuse to STFU in treating the character like god over everyone else's favorites (like geez, he peaked more than 2 decades ago, and--while there's plenty to do with him--we still have jackasses that go about this crap), rabid haters shitting on him and anyone who likes him regardless of whether they're fanboys or not, and those with actual common courtesy whether they like the character or not having these types of assholes representing them. Or Purists in general--fuck you, I've dealt with you assholes (and you're welcome to be a hit dog that hollers if you want to).

But aside from the occasional jerk being an intentional asshole because apparently that's more fun that touching grass...what would you really consider toxic? Seriously? It's rather difficult to just put everything that gets a negative light as toxic.

I haven't played League of Legends, but the fanbase sounds really toxic.

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On 12/20/2022 at 7:15 AM, Rabbitearsblog said:

I haven't played League of Legends, but the fanbase sounds really toxic.

I played LoL long time ago. I think it's how the game is structured.

Matches usually can take even hour, unlike 10 minutes FPS like Team Fortress or Overwatch. So each game is investment.
Games are 5 Vs 5, so one "noob" or person leaving can ruin whole game.
And in FPS there is limited time to chat. In LoL you can be dead for minutes, leaving you with nothing to do but vent your frustration.
Plus it's tactical game. In FPS you're (mostly) either playing good or bad, little grey area. In LoL you can have great strategy, your team can ignore it and you look like bad player.

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On 12/20/2022 at 12:15 AM, Rabbitearsblog said:

I haven't played League of Legends, but the fanbase sounds really toxic.

LOL is bad depending on how far into the game you want to go. In serious matches as said they can last a bit. Not really a hour but at least 30 mins sometimes usually good teams can swamp another fast. but two good teams can go back and forth. If one side losses several big fights in the jungle then you know its sorta over. BUT that said its toxic in the fact you can pick say Jinx i love that flat justice goddess. And she only gets good late game. You know this. You try to grind her as fast as you can. BUT if you get on a bad lane against another team and have no syenergy teammate or healer to help you early on you could die from gankers or stronger laner. To your team you are dying and costing them a lot as the other side gets stronger with your deaths. But you cant help that usually. If you sit back and dont push to hard your not helping. Push to hard and die your not helping. and they will LET you know this in the chat. it can be stressful with randoms.

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Matches used to last an hour back in the olden days until they made updates and mechanics that allowed for shorter matches in half the time. Although that also winds up with matches so short that they can end in 15 min because one player on the team (either the enemy or yours) snowballed hard and pushed into the opponent's base--that's a sign of TERRIBLE teamplay on the losing team. I would know, I caused my fair share of that playing as Samira (aka Egyptian Female Dante). XD

On 12/20/2022 at 12:15 AM, Rabbitearsblog said:

I haven't played League of Legends, but the fanbase sounds really toxic.

It is, and the developers have taken numerous steps to curb it. At first their main intention was reforming toxic players, which is admirable and does have a cause and reason to it--they want you to play their game, they just want you not being a dick to where you make other players stop playing. But there's always someone who find a way to be toxic, either out of frustration or because they enjoyed being a jerkass to other players, which eventually leads to more draconian measures implemented when the worst players test their patience.

It's had some ups and downs, but nowadays it's reached the point where they seem to have a sizable catalog of data on chat comments that they've now implemented a "zero-tolerance" policy that permanently mutes you in the chat if you violate it--I accidently came across that when I said, word for word, as a complement to the enemy team:

"These guys are fucking me in the ass so hard they're giving me cancer."

Which promptly got me chat restricted that entire match and made me unable to communicate with my team except through the use of pings. No one on my team saw the phrase. I didn't suffer any further penalties after that, but let's just say that was a learning lesson. And that was around a month or two ago!

And just so we're clear, it was the word "cancer" that wasn't tolerated because it's often thrown as an insult towards teammates who would wish you contracted it because they were losing the match.

And that's just one out of a myriad of examples. League of Legends will make you grateful you're more of a Sonic fan.

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  • 2 months later...

Regardless of your definition of such fan, the sure way to lose those people is an affirmation that it won't go their way from the authority, or really just cause enough to create huge disinterest. Of course, this doesn't apply to just those kind of fans, but just about any type.

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