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Should Sage become a permanent mainstay?


Johnny Boy

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Sonic Frontiers was easily the best Sonic game I’ve played in years, and I really loved the character of Sage. Thanks to the ending it appears she can indeed appear in future games so would you like for her to become a permanent mainstay in the series? 
 

I would love for Sage to stick around. I’d love to see her interact with Metal Sonic, Orbot and Cubot, plus I love how she brings out a more fatherly side of Eggman.

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I'd certainly like to see her stick around. I do partly wonder if she might be too overpowered though. After all, despite growing to communicate more with Sonic, she was still right in the end. Sonic couldn't defeat the ultimate threat, it was her intervention that got them the victory.

Does that mean she's smarter than Eggman?

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I think she is great addition to the cast, especially to the Eggman's side. Unlike Shadow whose story could have been fully wrapped up in Sonic Adventure 2, I think there is a lot of interesting things they could do with Sage in the future, and I hope they will keep her for future games and other content.

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Yes.

Eggman's beloved daughter is one of the best new additions to the Sonic series in decades. She's a source of character development for Eggman and she's just a likable character in her own right. I'm 100% in favor of her becoming a recurring member of the main cast.

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I'd definitely like it, but now that story DLC has been announced I don't think it's as sure a thing as it seemed before - her story might have always been intended to be concluded in the DLC, so we'll see.  But yeah, I like her, I sure hope she stays around.

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Depends if the DLC was written before the base game was already completed or not.

 

Not that I mind either way; but I'm kind of Sonic characters staying long past their expiration dates and just....existing but doing nothing of worth.

 

 

Even if Sage does stay, if they're not gonna follow up what Frontiers established and just leave her as another assistant to Eggman, then I don't see the point aside from just filling out the roster even more.

 

 

Now if she replaces Orbot and Cubot, then by all means :V

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Sage is so much more than just a lackey to Eggman. Throughout Frontiers, she's unwavering in her loyalty to him and incredibly naive. I like the fact that we see a lot of growth regarding what she learns from Sonic's deeds. It's nice. And whilst she doesn't exactly "turn good" at the end of the story, it dawns on me she hasn't yet done our even been exposed to much evil. Sage is just Eggman's AI program that gets significantly enhanced when she's uploaded to Cyberspace. Throughout the entire game Eggman is pretty much unable to do anything evil, so she doesn't get to see that side to him. She's aware of it of course, because she knows his history. But her entire time is spent doing two things: 1) trying to save Eggman and 2) deterring Sonic, because he's Eggman's enemy. 

I'm really looking forward to seeing more of her. There's plenty that can be done. I'm not sure what direction they'll take her in though. Part of me wants to say that she should have stayed dead at the end of Frontiers, or at least that she should have been given a longer arc across two or three games resulting in her eventual death. 

My biggest criticism with her is the dame as everyone else's, I think. That being that her relationship with Eggman was poorly told throughout Frontiers. And how Sonic also has nothing to say about her apparent demise... But those are both issues with SEGA's storytelling. When you look at Frontiers' story, it's actually full of the same kinds of holes as other Modern games (the Koco don't get a real introduction, Sage's exact origins aren't clear, the story got truncated and changed during development but those changes aren't properly reflected in game...). Flynn did a good job writing what he was given, but I still think that storytelling in Frontiers is shaky. It's carried by how well the characters interact. If we see Sage in a future game (or even if it's just the DLC), I'd out like to see Flynn given a bit more creative control in the story and for SEGA not to have to cut their story down in order to finish the game. 

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The main issue that Shadow faced when he was brought back was that the stories oftentimes had to reach for reasons for him to even be there. Sure, he's technically aligned to the side of good (in his own way), but his popularity and previous sway in the plot meant he had to be an important fixture in later games. Sans Heroes, where his amnesia subplot is mostly kept to the side, I don't think the series has done a particularly good job of that.

Sage, on the other hand, feels set up in a way that she'll always have reason to be there, while not necessarily needing to take away that much time from anyone else. She's in a unique position where she's been moved by Sonic's actions in the past, and she doesn't hold animosity for him in the way Eggman does. Sure, she did try to kill him on multiple occasions, but it was all business and not because she hated the guy. Her and Sonic coming to blows because of her alignment with Eggman could be really interesting. I'd love to see her come back.

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3 hours ago, Kuzu said:

Now if she replaces Orbot and Cubot, then by all means :V

They are her brothers. She needs to actually interact with them like a family, not replace them outright.

I'd be fine with her becoming more prominent than them overall, but let's not shoo them out entirely.

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It is clear she will return. But do I want her to? No I dont. Not really. Her arc was finished. She went from evil to good. Her colors literally changed to reflect that. 

Now that she understands friendship and love, what else is there for her to do or achieve? Well with Eggman she keeps fighting Sonic. Someone she clearly doesn't hate. Or...switching sides which betrays the core of her being as a daughter to Eggman.

Speaking of which even now I am not convinced of their relationship. Eggman is evil and entirely self reliant. Now overnight he has a kid that he loves, yet he always treated his past creations like garbage. So his love comes from her usefulness, nothing actually genuine. Im just not convinced that someone didnt splice their fanfiction into the script.

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56 minutes ago, Dejablue said:

Now overnight he has a kid that he loves, yet he always treated his past creations like garbage.

He went out of his way to rescue Orbot and Cubot in Lost World.

He's been pretty affectionate to Metal Sonic as well, in both the Olympic subseries and the (now canon) IDW comics.

...which on that note, also means the 30th anniversary story, "Dr. Eggman's Birthday" is canon as well. If you're unfamiliar with it, it's a story where the Badniks launch a surprise attack on Sonic (without Eggman's instructions) for Eggman's birthday. Eggman frantically calls the attack off in fear of his own minions' safety, and even expresses his appreciation toward them (albeit in his typically gruff way).

Eggman's kind of a jerk to his robots, but he's shown enough moments of kindness toward his Badniks here and there that I don't think his affection for Sage is unbelievable.

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8 minutes ago, CrownSlayer’s Shadow said:

And she somehow can't be given a new one?

She can but will she? I doubt it. Outside of stay "evil" or turn good. It is dissonant to me that Sage will want to continue being a threat to Sonic. A tension like that has to break one way or the other. And soon or it will get old. Or ignore the issue entirely which would be bad. Or super ignore it by having Eggman not use her at all and she just awkwadly exists at the base. 

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17 minutes ago, Dejablue said:

She can but will she? I doubt it.

Yes? Did you not hear the news about DLC for Frontiers coming out next year? With new playable characters and likely a new story?

Even disregarding that (because who knows if Sage would actually be one of the playable characters in the DLC?), does the fact that she's likely going to return not signify that they're going to make more use of the character and likely give her a new arc? Because if it doesn't, then you're going to be sorely disappointed if and when it shows otherwise.

17 minutes ago, Dejablue said:

Outside of stay "evil" or turn good. It is dissonant to me that Sage will want to continue being a threat to Sonic. A tension like that has to break one way or the other. And soon or it will get old. Or ignore the issue entirely which would be bad. Or super ignore it by having Eggman not use her at all and she just awkwadly exists at the base. 

That sounds more like a lack of creativity on your end than it getting old or awkward. I don't know where you get this idea that once a character has an arc that there's nothing else to do with them, but fiction doesn't operate on that creatively bankrupted position that there's nothing left to do with a character once an inital arc is resolved.

She is, by all intents and purposes, Eggman's daughter--that alone has a wealth of possibilities that can be done with her. First and foremost, even if she helped Sonic, she is loyal to Eggman over everything else--she fought against Sonic solely to keep Eggman safe, and then worked with Sonic due to the parameters in doing serving to keep Eggman safe. It's essentially established that anything that goes with or against that priority is what establishes the benchmark of what she considers friend or foe, and while she may have turned good to help Sonic (again to keep Eggman safe) it could be readily assumed that, should Sonic ever endanger Eggman or just simply fight against him, they'll go back to being enemies.

Likewise, if Sonic winds up being beneficial and serving in a way that helps her protect Eggman, then it can be readily assumed that they can serve as allies.

It's actually a hell of a lot more fluid than you seem to think it is, and it's actually no different to how Eggman himself has worked with the heroes whenever things got tense (something Sage points out herself).

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She's also not "good."

She reviewed Eggman's entire campaign history and wasn't bothered by any of it. Perfect Chaos, the missile attack, blowing up Prison Island, splitting the earth apart, she read through all of that and her loyalty didn't falter.

Ian Flynn himself dismissed the idea that her turning blue meant she "turned good." The color change is more likely reflective of her emotions, not her morality.

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10 minutes ago, CrownSlayer’s Shadow said:

 

Oops. I somehow made a reply with nothing in it. Tried to delete it, but it won't. But anyway. I dont think I lack creativity. I just think Sage is  redundant.  Eggman is more than capable in everything he does and never needed a daughter for any of it. Plus the lack of foreshadowing is jarring to say the least.

The fact that Sage longs for family yet has no issue with potentially destroying other familues is disturbing but the narrative wants us to like Sage, though not in the same way we like Eggman so I just think it is bad writing. Also how awe inspiringly convenient that the games usage of color to indicate positive growth in a character actually meant nothing.

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No.

I don't want her to end up like other characters, either forgotten after a few games or botched by writers who have no idea what they're doing. She's probably a good character, but there's a lack of faith that SEGA will use her properly in future games, let alone allowing her to appear in other media like the comics.

I love to be proven wrong, but the track record SEGA has when it comes to properly using their extended cast is raising red flag. They're either cheerleaders or hardly serve plot relevance. Frontiers seems to break the trend to some degree, but the concern is still valid in my opinion.

If they use her without messing things up though, then my answer is yes. Prove me wrong, SEGA.

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31 minutes ago, Dejablue said:

She can but will she? I doubt it. Outside of stay "evil" or turn good. It is dissonant to me that Sage will want to continue being a threat to Sonic. A tension like that has to break one way or the other. And soon or it will get old. Or ignore the issue entirely which would be bad. Or super ignore it by having Eggman not use her at all and she just awkwadly exists at the base. 

Take a look at these two questions from a recent bumblekast, timestamp @ 28:48:

 

 

16 minutes ago, Dr. Mechano said:

Ian Flynn himself dismissed the idea that her turning blue meant she "turned good." The color change is more likely reflective of her emotions, not her morality.

No he didn't lmfao, his answer was in no way shape or form taking that stance; stop leaving out the context

 

 

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12 minutes ago, Dejablue said:

Oops. I somehow made a reply with nothing in it. Tried to delete it, but it won't. But anyway. I dont think I lack creativity. I just think Sage is  redundant.  Eggman is more than capable in everything he does and never needed a daughter for any of it. Plus the lack of foreshadowing is jarring to say the least.

The fact that Sage longs for family yet has no issue with potentially destroying other familues is disturbing but the narrative wants us to like Sage, though not in the same way we like Eggman so I just think it is bad writing. Also how awe inspiringly convenient that the games usage of color to indicate positive growth in a character actually meant nothing.

It meant something, just not what you thought it meant. 

Sage becoming more emotional and more "alive" in a sense isn't the same thing as becoming one of the good guys. But that is still character growth.

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