Sonic the Hedgehog IDW #59: Cover & Info Reveal

[DabigRG]

On 12/27/2022 at 9:51 PM, Kuzu said:

Well yea, but those characters had specific mini-series' focused around those concepts, similar to Imposter Syndrome and the Tangle and Whisper series.

Basically, your only hope for focus on the game cast without it bloating the main book is that you better pray they get a mini-series somewhere down the line.

...Oh goddammit, you're right.

 

Granted, Thrash did get his first major arc thrusted to the main book eventually, but still.

22 hours ago, Kaotic Kanine said:

Exactly! If we're to get new recurring characters, it'd be much better if they exist to play off of the game cast, and thereby allow those game characters more spotlight. Like, we got so many evil/anti-heroic counterparts to Sonic. How about at one for Knuckles? Or Tails? Or freaking Amy! Likewise, if Shadow's new thing is that he's out looking for a "worthy challenge", then give him that! Give Shadow a personal villain that he can have awesome fights and dialogue with.

We never did get anything for Amy, did we? The closest was Jun Kun

And yeah, it's telling that when asked what characters he misses or wishes he could bring back, he always mentions Eclipse 

 

 

22 hours ago, Kaotic Kanine said:

With regards to this topic as a whole, I have to echo DabigRG's sentiment that we really need an "IDW Sonic Universe". A dedicated spin-off book that focuses on the game characters aside from Sonic. I personally would have much less resentment towards Tangle, Whisper, and especially Belle if, say, Cream had her own side story going on while the main book focused on the comic exclusives. We'd likely also get to see Knuckles, Blaze, and Shadow a lot more often. As it is, we have to hope that the next arc in the main book decides to include any of the game characters, let alone gives them any sort of focus. But with each arc being about four issues long, and each issue being released once a month (ideally)... Well, there's only so much waiting we can bare.

Guess we kinda know what people who had a hard time following Archie felt like now 

22 hours ago, Kaotic Kanine said:

And I ain't seeing any hope in a mini-series for the game cast seeing how the first three mini-series' focused entirely on the comic exclusive characters (Zavok being the sole exception), and the current fourth one is yet another Sonic and Tails story. Not to say that's bad, mind you; Tangle and Whisper's mini-series was born from their incredible popularity with fans and critics, Bad Guys likewise capitalized on Starline's popularity, and Scrapnik Island has a very creative premise that puts Sonic and Tails in a very unique situation. But nonetheless, for us fans who want to see Cream, Rouge, Blaze, Silver, and so on... Our only reliable avenue are the Annual issues. Which, as the name spells out, are only once a year. With only five, very short stories each. And even then, there's a good chance of those stories focusing on the comic exclusives. So, better pray that you're preferred game character is the star of one of those five stories And that the story is actually good. I'll admit right now that I have mixed feelings with Cream's story in the 2022 Annual, and I outright feel bad for fans of Jet with regards to his story in that annual.

Of course, I suppose none of this would be a problem if the game cast were allowed to regularly appear in the actual games. If we still had Cream, Rouge, the Chaotix, Blaze, and Silver making significant appearances in the main series and spin-off games, the comics focusing on the comic exclusive characters would be much more tolerable since, well, they're exclusive to the comics while the game characters get to be in the "origin media" for this franchise. But as it happens, the game cast haven't been featured in the main games since 2006, with Generations and Forces being special exceptions (but even then, those were bit roles at best). Specifically to cater to a crowd who should never have been catered to in the first place. And the games stopped having any serious spin-offs outside of the Olympic crossovers with Mario to showcase those characters. Team Sonic Racing was the first actual Sonic spin-off game in a decade (I think), but that sadly crashed and burned on arrival. And that game also showed me that I can't even count on Cream appearing in a racing title, one that features the very team she was created for  So... The comics are the only medium in this entire franchise allowing these characters any meaningful appearances. And the comics clearly prefers its own characters over the game cast who have been neglected in their own medium for over a decade.

...So, yeah. IDW Sonic Universe please.

Now that you mention it, a chunk of it is fan and/or editor demand, so maybe wiritng in could help 

[Kazhnuz]

An IDW Sonic Universe would be nice to give more place to the cast, especially to show other as the heroes instead of Sonic. Now I don't have an issue with character not appearing all the time, nor think original character takes too much place (they're used for specific stories, I feel that character should be chosen to tell a story, not to appease fans), but it would be great to have some different character in spotlight. Now I would like it to break up a bit the "teams", and giving character different group (I liked the Amy-Rouge-Cream-Gemerl team, and the Amy-Tangle-Jewel-Belle team also had potential). It would be nice to try different character dynamics, etc.

Or if they don't do an IDW Sonic Universe, they can add two more mini-serie each year, which would kinda be the same as a second serie XD. (They might already kinda doing that, we got a lot of comics this year, they might want to continue even when there isn't a movie or an anniversary... So I wouldn't be surprised if one year we get one more mini-serie, and more one-shot)

 

More on the subject, I wonder what are those "android" the info are talking about. I'm a bit worried about the "all star" aspect of this arc tho: it looks a bit too much like "these character haven't appeared since a while, let's put a lot of them". Now, I'm interested in how Shadow will be handled. I kinda prefer Evan's Shadow to Ian's, I feel she handle better how SEGA see their Shadow by making him think, and add some bits of "he is better that he want to admit".

And I would like more again having Shadow and Rouge without them being part of "Team Dark", but eh.

[Slashy]

Ironically I expect more Sonic side content to come out as Sonic is one of the few things keeping IDW from going bankrupt.

The company pretty much lost all of their worthwhile IPs, but Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, Sonic, and My Little Pony (even that may be uncertain given Hasbro has pulled out its other IPs from IDW.)

[Kuzu]

You got a source on that because I haven't read anything saying IDW is doing bad financially...

[Rabbitearsblog]

50 minutes ago, Kuzu said:

You got a source on that because I haven't read anything saying IDW is doing bad financially...

The only thing I heard was that IDW was losing the license to Transformers and G.I. Joe (article here). But, I never heard anything about the company going down under.

[DabigRG]

2 hours ago, Slashy said:

Ironically I expect more Sonic side content to come out as Sonic is one of the few things keeping IDW from going bankrupt.

The company pretty much lost all of their worthwhile IPs, but Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, Sonic, and My Little Pony (even that may be uncertain given Hasbro has pulled out its other IPs from IDW.)

 

1 hour ago, Kuzu said:

You got a source on that because I haven't read anything saying IDW is doing bad financially...

After some digging, I believe they are referring to this post.

 

[Kuzu]

I mean, if that's the case that's even less incentive for them to put money into another ongoing Sonic book, especially if the main books aren't selling too well. 

[Rabbitearsblog]

44 minutes ago, Kuzu said:

I mean, if that's the case that's even less incentive for them to put money into another ongoing Sonic book, especially if the main books aren't selling too well. 

To be fair, the comic book industry hasn't been doing well for years.

[Kuzu]

26 minutes ago, Rabbitearsblog said:

To be fair, the comic book industry hasn't been doing well for years.

The point stands, we ain't getting another book outside of mini-series lol. 

[Slashy]

3 hours ago, Kuzu said:

I mean, if that's the case that's even less incentive for them to put money into another ongoing Sonic book, especially if the main books aren't selling too well. 

It is selling great for IDW.

[Michael Takagawa]

What’s the problem with Belle anyways? Why so much of the drama starting with her?

[GentlemanX]

19 hours ago, Kuzu said:

I mean, if that's the case that's even less incentive for them to put money into another ongoing Sonic book, especially if the main books aren't selling too well. 

All signs point to Sonic selling well for IDW. The premise here is as IDW loses moneymakers like Transformers and potentially MLP they'd double down on the successful titles they do still have like Sonic to make up the difference. Another ongoing, more mini-series, one shots, more Best Ofs compilations, etc.

[DabigRG]

16 hours ago, Michael Takagawa said:

What’s the problem with Belle anyways? Why so much of the drama starting with her?

Because she arguably got more usage, paneltime, and exposure for its own sake than any other character within a very short window of appearances.

 

It's important to remember that despite his own prevalence, Starline was initially an enabler and spectator to everything leading up and during the Metal Virus Saga; his scenes were more about commenting on and reacting to Sonic and Eggman than simply getting spotlight for himself. There's also how he, Surge, and Kit are villains who primarily provide the conflict and drama thay the heroes go up against in most of their appearances thus far.

 

Meanwhile, the bulk of Year 3 and even what can be considered Year 4 has very much been The Belle Show for all but one single issue story and parts of the latest stuff thus far. Add in the delays, her characterization issues, and how her backstory was pretty obvious from the getgo and it's not hard to see why people got tired of her.

[Kuzu]

This happens any time one character gets a significant amount of spotlight; people got tired of Shadow, people got tired of Sonic himself (despite being the main character). 

Focusing on one or two characters means someone else isn't getting attention, and if you don't care about the characters that are getting attention, then its only going to grate on you when they're onscreen. 

 

No, there isn't a solution to this; the authors wanted to tell a story with Belle, whether you liked the story or not is another matter entirely. 

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

It’s just going full circle again with having a new cast of characters, huh?

[Kuzu]

1 minute ago, CrownSlayer’s Shadow said:

It’s just going full circle again with having a new cast of characters, huh?

Its literally never going to stop either; this was less of a problem when almost every product would shove in every character without rhyme or reason, but that obviously isn't viable anymore. 

We're gonna need new characters to get new stories, but since this is Sonic and fans wanna see their favorite characters, they get annoyed when new character gets screentime over old fan-favorites. 

[DabigRG]

If anything, I would think that both this current story arc and the Chaotix story is proof that you don't always need to introduce dedicated new characters to tell stories if you know how to leverage what you have.

Also, part of Belle's issue too is that she didn't add a whole lot of interest or excitement for the amount of time spent on. Say what you will about the Glitch Trio, but they're almost always up to something and presenting new scenarios for the cast.

[Kuzu]

How much a character adds to the story is entirely subjective; there's no objective scale to just say nobody likes Belle. The point is that the writers wanted to tell her story and they did, whether you liked the story they told or not is another matter entirely. 

The Chaotix example isn't really proof of anything, because it was a one off issue with no greater impact on the storyline. 

 

I feel like some of you are trying to justify your feelings when you don't really have to? If you didn't care or like Belle's story, then just say that. You don't need to dress it up by trying to say she's some failure of a character because you didn't like her probably as much as the writers wanted you to.  You're gonna like some characters less than others...that's just how writing works. 

[DabigRG]

12 minutes ago, Kuzu said:

How much a character adds to the story is entirely subjective; there's no objective scale to just say nobody likes Belle. The point is that the writers wanted to tell her story and they did, whether you liked the story they told or not is another matter entirely. 

It's not about catering popularity, it's about providing material. Sure, one can definitely inform the other at times--hence the association--, but there's an inherent divide between the workings of storytelling and it's reception.

 

12 minutes ago, Kuzu said:

The Chaotix example isn't really proof of anything, because it was a one off issue with no greater impact on the storyline. 

. 

It was the quick way to say creativity doesn't require totally reinventing the wheel everytime. If anything, the fact that it was just a one shot following up on one story while setting the stage for others goes to show that there had been limitations that can easily be lifted for a greater range of creative freedom. 

 

They should considering doing more one, two, or three part stories so the four issue format doesn't continue to get as stale or burdening

[Kuzu]

8 minutes ago, DabigRG said:

It's not about catering popularity, it's about providing material. Sure, one can definitely inform the other at times--hence the association--, but there's an inherent divide between the workings of storytelling and it's reception.

Ok, but what are you basing this on besides a few comments from here and probably on Twitter, to objectively say that Belle is some failure as a character that adds nothing of value? 

8 minutes ago, DabigRG said:

It was the quick way to say creativity doesn't require totally reinventing the wheel everytime. If anything, the fact that it was just a one shot following up on one story while setting the stage for others goes to show that there had been limitations that can easily be lifted for a greater range of creative freedom. 

They should considering doing more one, two, or three part stories so the four issue format doesn't continue to get as stale or burdening

But that issue also came in the middle of another story arc; like the comics have been doing exactly what you described. Everything from Belle's debut to Starline getting the data he needed was building up to Surge and Kit. 

 

I'm still not really understanding the complaints beyond just being upset that the series isn't focusing on your favorite character.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

3 hours ago, Kuzu said:

Its literally never going to stop either; this was less of a problem when almost every product would shove in every character without rhyme or reason, but that obviously isn't viable anymore. 

We're gonna need new characters to get new stories, but since this is Sonic and fans wanna see their favorite characters, they get annoyed when new character gets screentime over old fan-favorites. 

And then those fans will feel the same way when they’re favorites get less screen time for whatever new character comes in.

You just gotta love the cycle of entitlement.

[Kuzu]

I don't think its inherently wrong to want to see your favorite characters and be upset when the focus is on a character that you perceive to be less interesting than your faves.

But I feel like that is such a limited way at looking at things and storytelling as a whole. Just because a story lacks your favorite characters doesn't suddenly mean that its a waste of time and that's judging the stories for what they aren't as opposed to on their own merits. These authors could make one of the best story arcs ever and y'all would write it off because Shadow, Cream or whoever weren't in it.

 

And I don't even care much about Belle myself hilariously. But that's less because I'd rather be watching someone else and more because I just find passive characters like her much less interesting to watch. And even then, I still liked the stuff with her accepting what happened with Tinkerer and Eggman and I can see potential in a scenario where she visits Scrapnik Island.

 

 

I dunno; as much as I would love to have more Knuckles in this book, it's not really a deal breaker for me ya know? Especially after everyone complained about him not doing his job, so now he is doing it and thus, we won't see him unless something goes down on Angel Island :V

[Rabbitearsblog]

41 minutes ago, Kuzu said:

I don't think its inherently wrong to want to see your favorite characters and be upset when the focus is on a character that you perceive to be less interesting than your faves.

But I feel like that is such a limited way at looking at things and storytelling as a whole. Just because a story lacks your favorite characters doesn't suddenly mean that its a waste of time and that's judging the stories for what they aren't as opposed to on their own merits. These authors could make one of the best story arcs ever and y'all would write it off because Shadow, Cream or whoever weren't in it.

And I don't even care much about Belle myself hilariously. But that's less because I'd rather be watching someone else and more because I just find passive characters like her much less interesting to watch. And even then, I still liked the stuff with her accepting what happened with Tinkerer and Eggman and I can see potential in a scenario where she visits Scrapnik Island.

I dunno; as much as I would love to have more Knuckles in this book, it's not really a deal breaker for me ya know? Especially after everyone complained about him not doing his job, so now he is doing it and thus, we won't see him unless something goes down on Angel Island :V

In regards to Knuckles, it's kind of like a "be careful what you wish for" scenario since fans wanted Knuckles to be back on the Island, but at the cost of him having any relevance in any of the stories.  Although, there are ways that they could still put Knuckles into the stories without him having to stay on the Island all the time.  Like what was mentioned, if Sticks comes to the island, then she could watch the master emerald while Knuckles goes off to wherever he needs to go to.  I never understood why they never had someone else guard the emerald while Knuckles is away.  That's pretty much what I missed when Knuckles was with the Chaotix in the earlier days of the Sonic franchise.  Any one of the Chaotix could watch the emerald if Knuckles is gone.

[Kaotic Kanine]

I was honestly going to write about how I think Belle is an ultimately unnecessary addition to the "major cast" (that is, the game cast plus Tangle and Whisper) since there's already so many and I don't see the point to her. But I actually took the time to read about Belle's character on TV Tropes, and from it I guess she's not so unnecessary. I still would've preferred this book focuses on adding new major/recurring villains as opposed to heroes, just cause we already have so much of the latter and the more that get added will only step on the toes of the others (as we're complaining about right now). But I must admit that Belle does have a "point" in being a heroic creation of Eggman's, a Badnik that wants to help people and fix things as opposed to destroying and conquering. And unlike Gamma, Omega, and Gemerl, Belle isn't rebelling from Eggman or reprogrammed to be good, she was created when Eggman was the more benevolent "Mr. Tinker". She also has the unique niche of being a wooden robot, a living puppet with toy-like mechanics.

So then, thinking about it, I guess my big problem with Belle is not only how much focus she got over the other characters (especially the ones I actually prefer) for the past year, but her story was told in the most clumsy way. Like, Belle makes her debut in "Chao Races and Badnik Bases", a story whose premise was Amy, Cream, Rouge, and Gemerl who shouldn't have been involved but whatever competing in a Chao Racing tournament to get parts to repair Omega. Belle doesn't really figure into this story, and I feel like her inclusion only contributed to the distraction from that premise. But to be fair, Chao Races and Badnik Bases was way more fucked over by Shadow and especially Starline's shoehorned involvement, and it would make sense for Belle to first meet Sonic and Tails while they're all fucking around in one of Eggman's abandoned bases. But then we get to "Test Run", a story about Sonic, Tails, and Amy investigating a strange tower that sends them to a fucked up dimension controlled by Eggman. That sounds like a fun story on its own, but turns out that plot is just as much about Belle and Tangle sneaking into that tower to confront Eggman, and ultimately learn that Belle was created by Mr. Tinker. So, okay, that was another cool story premise that kind of got distracted for Belle's sake... But hey, her story should be effectively over. Now it's time for "Zeti Hunt", where Sonic and Team Chaotix work together to hunt down the Deadly Six, who have reunited with each other and intend to kill Sonic once and for all... Only for that conflict to abruptly get replaced with Starline kidnapping Belle to extract data from her...

Belle's "story" has always been the B-plot to stories that are otherwise not about her. Stories with interesting premises that probably would've fared better if they weren't made to focus on her. Either have these stories actually be about Belle from the get-go or don't involve her. Like, instead of "Chaos Races AND Badnik Bases", how about have the two plots be their own separate arcs? Chao Races focuses on Amy, Cream, and Rouge as they compete in the aforementioned tournament in an attempt to ripoff a retired crime lord, while Badnik Bases properly focuses on Belle as she's first met by Sonic and Tails while they're investigating one of Eggman's abandoned bases for whatever reason. Maybe that standalone Badnik Bases story could've introduced Belle "fixing" the destroyed Badniks of that base out of sympathy or whatever, which would've made Sonic's initial hostility towards her make more sense. And for "Test Run", maybe reserve that "Sonic, Tails, and Amy in an Eggman-controlled dimension" for later and have the plot be about Sonic and Tails helping Belle to confront Eggman, in light of her disbelief that Mr. Tinker would become such a diabolical man. And for the "Starline kidnaps Belle to extract data for his imposters"... How about have that as its own arc instead of something shoehorned in the final issue of the story focused on Sonic, Team Chaotix, and the Deadly Six...? Doesn't even have to be a long arc! "Trial by Fire" and "Hit the Pavement" would show that not every arc has to be four issues long.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

2 hours ago, Kuzu said:

I don't think its inherently wrong to want to see your favorite characters and be upset when the focus is on a character that you perceive to be less interesting than your faves.

It isn’t, but what people don’t understand for some reason is that you can have more than one favorite. And they don’t have to be strictly from the games.

2 hours ago, Kuzu said:

But I feel like that is such a limited way at looking at things and storytelling as a whole. Just because a story lacks your favorite characters doesn't suddenly mean that its a waste of time and that's judging the stories for what they aren't as opposed to on their own merits. These authors could make one of the best story arcs ever and y'all would write it off because Shadow, Cream or whoever weren't in it.

Or write it off because Shadow, Cream, or whoever we’re in it.

2 hours ago, Kuzu said:

I dunno; as much as I would love to have more Knuckles in this book, it's not really a deal breaker for me ya know? Especially after everyone complained about him not doing his job, so now he is doing it and thus, we won't see him unless something goes down on Angel Island :V

Tho, from what I’m hearing, Sticks could have been used to solve that problem until Sega shot it down.

Sad, because I thought that was an excellent place for her in IDW once I heard it not to long ago. I sure as shit never would’ve thought of that.

That said, nothing’s stopping them from writing stories that involve Knuckles doing his job. There’s still plenty of room to work with the character.