Sonic the Hedgehog IDW #59: Cover & Info Reveal

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

3 hours ago, The Deleter said:

The tags are technically an extension of the post, as usual:

Very curious what they're going to do with him this time now, and how those guidelines compare to what we were previously told

Given Stanely's hypings, I'd wager we're at least going to move away from Shadow at his worst, ergo, Vegeta on steroids and beyond reason. Probably more closer to how he was in the likes of Forces, Team Sonic Racing and/or a mix of 06. Maybe a hint of the jerk for rivalry bits with certain characters, but ideally, nothing where he becomes practically stupid just for the sake of being a jerk.

Team Dark's presence also seems to suggest that at least, we'll see once again the semblance of comradery he has for Rouge and Omega. A good start.

[Sega DogTagz]

4 hours ago, Rabbitearsblog said:

I wonder what made SEGA change their minds about Shadow?

 

After Frontiers, Sega has gotten a lot of positive feedback in terms of letting the creatives they hire wield a greater degree of freedom over the characters. The overwhelming majority ate up what  Flynn did with the cast.  Being so well received,  Frontiers makes it less of a risk to give them a longer leash with everyone else, Shadow included.

 

It also might be worth noting that Sega needs to get on pace to defining game Shadows role / place in the franchise, as the next movie will be entering its own interpretation into the fray and you don't exactly want someone that far outside controlling the full narrative.

[Kuzu]

I'm not expecting a whole lot of elaboration given how bloated this arc is already but actually defining exactly who or what Shadow is in the current context of the series is a good start.

[The Deleter]

I don't expect SEGA to do much in terms of Movie Shadow, considering how loose of a leash they allowed Sonic to have with his characterization to begin with. They're aware that those movies are doing their own thing, and seem to be allowing them to do what they want, regardless of how the main series works. It's the movie crew actually being fans of the games themselves that seems to be reigning them in, which ironically should make people more worried with how attached they are to the idea of bringing Shadow 2005 elements in lol

Also I've stated this elsewhere but I'm not actually expecting changes to the mandates that have been explicitly listed, moreso a change in direction that actually correlates to those mandates while also matching what SEGA does with him in the games themselves. Until we see something that actually contradicts what has been previously stated, I'm in wait and see mode.

[Kuzu]

Don't Paramount have the movie rights so Sega can't actually dictate the direction of the movies? They can give advice and pointers but Paramount have the last word at the end of the day.

[The Deleter]

7 minutes ago, Kuzu said:

Don't Paramount have the movie rights so Sega can't actually dictate the direction of the movies? They can give advice and pointers but Paramount have the last word at the end of the day.

I'm not exactly sure; I know people more familiar with the legal specifics used to bring up stuff like that with regards to promoting stuff like the movie, comics etc, but I'm relatively unknowledgeable of them myself. 

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

8 hours ago, Kuzu said:

On that note. Evan Stanley has said that they got a bit more leeway in regards to Shadow....which might explain why Team Dark is back now.

https://spiritsonic.tumblr.com/post/711022657628422144/i-absolutely-get-if-this-is-one-you-cant-really#disqus_thread

Hopefully this leads more to something akin to Archie Shadow, because of all characters he was the one the comic team never had any problems writing prior to Sonic going to IDW.

[Kuzu]

20 minutes ago, CrownSlayer’s Shadow said:

Hopefully this leads more to something akin to Archie Shadow, because of all characters he was the one the comic team never had any problems writing prior to Sonic going to IDW.

Well Flynn and Stanley have both said thay they prefer Shadow to be more open about his feelings and that tracks with Archie but uh...that's not how Shadow acts in the games, at all.

He tends to be pretty closed off, even with the likes Rouge and Omega. So I'd imagine Evan is gonna write him closer to that than how he was in Archie.

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

3 hours ago, Rabbitearsblog said:

I wonder what made SEGA change their minds about Shadow?

My best guess would be that this is due to the success of Frontiers, which appears to have triggered a few changes in how SEGA are handling things.

Given Frontiers' increasing bout of revenue gained back, if SEGA are attributing its success to improvements in factors such as gameplay, or in this case, the writing, then they'd see it in their best interests to take the overall feedback of long-running aspects into mind, and allow some changes for the better.

Simply put, success in the face of actually allowing things to go a certain way has apparently opened the corporate higher-ups' eyes.

[Sega DogTagz]

2 hours ago, Kuzu said:

Don't Paramount have the movie rights so Sega can't actually dictate the direction of the movies? They can give advice and pointers but Paramount have the last word at the end of the day.

The whole Ugly Sonic fiasco showed how much input Sega has into the creative process. Which is jack squat. Even if they are against something, they don't have the foothold to actually demand changes. They can make suggestions and hope the assembled creatives heed their whims.

 

The way the team has been built, the director and the writers have the free reign to develop their vision of Sonic for the big screen. Sega doesn't have anyone on the inside creative team ensuring the direction of the movie or characters goes in any particular way (as opposed to say the Mario movie, which the executive staff is loaded with Nintendo guys to ensure some measure of control). The closest thing to that the Sonic movie has is Hesse on the Art Team, and he only got brought on after things started looking super grim.

 

 

Its a philosophy not everyone is comfortable with. A good manager should be able to trust the people they hire to perform their jobs at a high level. Letting Movie guys take care of the movie side of the house isn't a bad thing. Its just a wildcard in terms of the end result not being 100% aligned with the IP.

But honestly, if your that worried over the end result; that you need to babysit them over every decision...  then you collaborated with the wrong people to make it. Simple as that.

[Kuzu]

I only asked cuz Sega are huge on brand cohesion and identity nowadays. Almost all of the current media have been homogenized into one consistently thing. There isn't really the same type of divide there was compared to when the games, SATAM, and AOSTH had three separate continuities.

 

The movies are the big outlier nowadays because while there are similarities, it's the biggest departure from Sonic that is currently active and the one with arguably the biggest influence over general consumers, way more than the games.

 

So I'm curious on how Sega would treat the differing interpretations given how popular they currently are. 

[Sega DogTagz]

3 hours ago, Kuzu said:

So I'm curious on how Sega would treat the differing interpretations given how popular they currently are. 

 

The movie is a relic of the older days. Paramount technically brought the rights from Sony whom was sitting on the IP from waaaaay back. A lot of the framework likely spawned from that original deal.

 

I assume Sonic Team will do what they always do. They will let the differing interpretations run its course and then cherry pick the handful of things that work really well. That's how we got the inhibitor rings and a much more catoonishly aggressive Omega.

 

Sonic will carry over some things like the electric chaos aura, the Floss Dance and Longclaw as a legacy to the movies.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

10 hours ago, Kuzu said:

Well Flynn and Stanley have both said thay they prefer Shadow to be more open about his feelings and that tracks with Archie but uh...that's not how Shadow acts in the games, at all.

He tends to be pretty closed off, even with the likes Rouge and Omega. So I'd imagine Evan is gonna write him closer to that than how he was in Archie.

I meant Archie Shadow more in terms of making tough, but understandable choices that may cause conflict with other characters but nonetheless have good intentions.

You know, basically a Shadow that would be smart enough to release his inhibitor rings and not punch Zombots with his bare hands because "Cowards run" and he was mandated to fight strong enemies which somehow made sense (it didn't, Sega). No, I'm not letting him live that down, even if he's one of my favorite charaters.

[The Deleter]

Update on the Shadow direction:

 

 

That sounds PERFECT holy crap. Last I checked the "Shadow doesn't explain himself" was Ian's interpretation of the notes SEGA had with Sonic and Shadow arguing with each other in the initial drafts of the tinker arc, so if this is a course correction, it's one we've been desperately needing since then, if it set the stage for some of his later direction.

It also makes me wonder if Evan might have had this in mind when writing Shadow's arc in the CRABB arc. It pops in my head for a solid minute before the IDW critical throw it out with the bathwater, but the "he's hunting Starline down for his own ego" and "he doesn't talk to/save Rouge or pay attention to the avalanche because he's driven by Vegeta pride now" criticisms could have been alternatively Shadow simply prioritizing the most immediate and important threat that he sees. It's just the writing and vagueness of it all largely didn't do it any favors, and it's hard to argue for. If this is how Evan prefers to write him, I wonder if the latter direction was what she intended to begin with, after all.

 

10 hours ago, CrownSlayer’s Shadow said:

I meant Archie Shadow more in terms of making tough, but understandable choices that may cause conflict with other characters but nonetheless have good intentions.

You know, basically a Shadow that would be smart enough to release his inhibitor rings and not punch Zombots with his bare hands because "Cowards run" and he was mandated to fight strong enemies which somehow made sense (it didn't, Sega). No, I'm not letting him live that down, even if he's one of my favorite charaters.

The SEGA mandate of the inhibitor rings not being a thing is still true from what I'm aware of, as Ian has mentioned it in other responses iirc, but the scenario that was chosen for Shadow in that issue was always going to be the case regardless. Whether it was him being arrogant enough to believe that his inhibitor rings would burn off the virus while fighting them, or the current logic they went with him simply being in denial that it would effect him, it was always going to happen.

The mandates for fighting strong enemies weren't involved in that decision; he was set up to fall to the virus at this specific part in the story to raise the stakes themselves, which the following question/answer after that clarified.

 

[Kuzu]

I'm honestly kind of confused on why this was such a hurdle for them...

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

1 hour ago, Kuzu said:

I'm honestly kind of confused on why this was such a hurdle for them...

Typical executives thinking that they make better writers than the actual writers.

[Ryannumber1gamer]

I'm still not sure if I'm quite ready to jump on the 'Shadow's fixed, whoop whoop' train, since there's still numerous guidelines that could still be in place that Evan's statement doesn't conflict with (IE - Literally cares so little about his past now that he doesn't really give a shit about Maria anymore, only wishes to defeat people he deems 'stronger', and as soon as Eggman is beaten once, he'll deem it as not worth his time, no Team Dark, Shadow has no friends, etc etc).

That said, this is definitely a step in the right direction. The proof will still remain in the pudding until the issue drops properly and we see exactly how Shadow will be handled, but having him take a actual strategic, pragmatic approach to things, instead of "IM THE STRONGEST, IM NOT WEAK I CAN TANK INFECTION!!!" nonsense like with the Metal Virus, and having Shadow actually explain himself and not just be a dick for the sake of being a dick is definitely a good thing. I'm doubtful it will be some big 180 turnaround, but with the state Shadow was left in, any progress is good progress. 

[Kuzu]

The biggest problem Shadow has had in this book is that his motivations have been extremely vague. The reader has no idea what's driving him to act in the way that he does and without that context, it completely muddled his character. It's no wonder people can't agree on how he should be because the book has done a very poor job at establishing Shadow's core traits and beliefs.

I understand the idea of subtlety, but they took it too far in my opinion. There should be enough context so that people can understand why a character acts the way they do. 

All of that goes beyond the superficial complaints being tossed around like "He acts like Vegeta" or "He's not talking about Maria".

[The Deleter]

1 hour ago, Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon said:

Typical executives thinking that they make better writers than the actual writers.

No they were right to begin with. Shadow inherently isn't a chatterbox, especially when it comes to his own perspective on things. Just like these guidelines, in the games he explains his reasoning when it "makes sense to do so", but otherwise does not bother when it isn't necessary. Those few issues where he confronted Sonic over Tinker were spot on to that and most fans agreed; the original draft wasn't necessary.

How many complaints have we seen of Sonic himself monologuing too much in the comic, especially when it comes to explaining his perspective? And he's much more inherently chatty than Shadow ever was.

The problem is that it's been applied as a broad stroke to the character's direction ever since, and the nuance that "makes sense to do so" that the games always had has been lost. It was an overcorrection to begin with; he shouldn't be monologuing but he shouldn't refuse to explain his reasons either.

[sonicclaasic]

Got my IDW Sonic Issue #59 covers In the post this week. And my favourite has to be Cover B with Shadow and the Shadow Androids In that cover. 
 

My second favourite cover Is RI followed by cover A. This has got to be my favourite Issue so far because of the Shadow variant cover.