What is an "Edgelord"?

[MetalSkulkBane]

Yeah, yeah, it probably will end being Shadow topic, but I'm curious about general idea. I want to figure out what Edgelord even means?

And just to make it harder tell me if those characters count as edgelord:
Batman
Vader
Raven (Teen Titans)
Kratos
Sasuke
Punisher
Meta Knight
Zuko
Surge
Because all of those guys have "edgy" traits, but I don't see them being called edgelords (at least not often).

Word "edge" use to just mean cool. I could swear Sonic used to be described as edgy in comparison to Mario. But I guess language evolved since 90s. Reaper (Overwatch) and Infinite are often described as ultimate edgelords (even if first one feels like intentional parody), so maybe they are good starting point.

Obvious point is wearing black and "dark cool" things, like skull mask or... I'm not sure what makes Infinite look edgy. His eyes I guess? But this would make like 90% of dark villains and edgelord. Maleficent, Sauron, any DnD necromancer.

Other thing is generally talking about "darkness, pain, death". So are edgelords just emo? Is that it? Is Zor and edgelord?

[Duelistic Nature]

The more I thought about the definition of an "Edgelord" the harder it got for me. So doing a quick google search and trying to gather the general impression people have of it comes to something around this:

someone who intentionally expresses opinions that are likely to shock or offend people

Looking for a definition about what it means to be "Edgy" I came up with this:

Simple-mindedly and transparently trying to appear tough or 'cool', for the sake of being provocative and/or offensive

 

Going by these definitions the character of Reaper was purposefully dressed up to be edgy. He's an EX-overwatch operative who went dark only to tear down the Overwatch program later due to resentment for their former captain and his former friend. I can't see his black reaper gettup being anything other than just trying to appear cool, because he personifies the reaper in classical western culture.

On the other hand characters like Batman or Darth Vader aren't so much an edgelord, because they don't necessarily say or do things that provoke or offend people. They dress to intimidate their foes. Conversely, the Joker DOES qualify as an edgelord due to his purposefully nihilistic view, and his clown-esque gettup. He's not a brooding character which often gets mistaken as being edgy. His edge is covered by a veneer of hysteria.

And for the sake of Shadow: the only real time he felt "edgy" was in his titular game. "Taking candy from a baby, and that's fine by me" is still considered edgy, because well... a decent human being wouldn't do that or even begin to say something like that. And it was very very shocking or offensive for characters (or even on the radio) to say any type of swear word back in the day so one could say some edge is lost over the years.

Edited December 30, 2022 by Duelistic Nature
sorry mismatched the definition of edgelord with edgy

[MetalSkulkBane]

1 hour ago, Duelistic Nature said:

And for the sake of Shadow: the only real time he felt "edgy" was in his titular game. "Taking candy from a baby, and that's fine by me" is still considered edgy, because well... a decent human being wouldn't do that or even begin to say something like that.

This one is a common misconception. Shadow says
"This is like taking candy from a baby. Which is fine by me." Notice he doesn't say "Which would be."

In other words, he says "Wow, easy. But I don't mind." not "Wow, it's like robbing toddlers. BTW, I loooove robbing toddlers".

 

Shadow the Game did enough other stupid things. (For starters Shadow is clearly stealing that Emerald from Sonic in that scene. On pure-good path).

[Danj86]

It's actually an interesting question since the term became into heavy use on these modern times, when the true definition of a word becomes more elusive. You can look up the definition of Edgelord and find results that sound similar but still have significant differences.

For my part, the addition of "lord" adds a level of sarcasm that makes an Edgelord sound like an insult which is why I tend to believe an Edgelord is somebody that will try to shock and impress by expressing provocative or extreme opinions.

With that in mind:

8 hours ago, MetalSkulkBane said:

Vader
Raven (Teen Titans)
Sasuke
Punisher

In my personal opinion, none of these characters are Edgelords, including Shadow. Though I'm not sure about Kratos...and Batman too. At least with Batman, he is deliberately trying to be scary to intimidate criminals, so that edgyness has a purpose and isn't just for attention.

Funnily enough, while I don't consider Shadow an Edgelord, Infinite certainly comes across as one. Another character I can name off the top of my head who I considered an Edgelord is Jack Spicer from Xiaolin Showdown.

[Dr. Mechano]

9 hours ago, MetalSkulkBane said:

Obvious point is wearing black and "dark cool" things, like skull mask or... I'm not sure what makes Infinite look edgy. His eyes I guess? But this would make like 90% of dark villains and edgelord. Maleficent, Sauron, any DnD necromancer.

Other thing is generally talking about "darkness, pain, death". So are edgelords just emo? Is that it? Is Zor and edgelord?

"Edgelord" isn't an appearance. It's an attitude.

 

There are characters who wear lots of dark colors (Waluigi), skull masks (Mumbo Jumbo), spiked collars and bracelets (Bowser), or any number of other visual cues that are usually associated with the "edgy" archetype, but are still obviously anything but. 

I think it's far more about how you carry yourself. It's this super-serious disposition that rarely, if ever, falters. But even then, just being "serious" isn't one-for-one the same thing as being an "edgelord" either; I doubt most people would call Knuckles an edgelord, even though he's usually depicted as a serious and (often) angry character. There are several factors as to why this is, but I'd say the big one is framing. While Knuckles himself isn't this goofy silly guy (outside of certain depictions like Boom, anyway), the series still isn't afraid to laugh at him. A lot of comedy is still made at his expense, and it helps take some of the edge off.

I would say that Zor also doesn't fit the bill, since his sullen attitude is entirely played for comedy. Zor is like Strong Sad - a character whose perpetually-negative outlook on the world is so over the top that one can't really take it seriously.

[Kuzu]

In its most general sense, it usually means a product that is more proactive than the norm. It is a general defiance and rejection of what is considered the status quo. This extends to personality, clothing, language, etc etc. Anything that goes against the grain essentially. 

What counts as "edgy" is almost entirely dependent on what is considered "the norm" at the time. To use a simple and well known example, in the late 80's and most of the 90's, the comic industry moved away from the typical morally upstanding and clean superheroes, to more selfish and morally ambiguous heroes; this is, unsurprisingly, where characters like Venom took off in popularity. 

In modern times though, the term "edgelord" is almost entirely used in a derogatory and mocking sense; what was once considered "cool and hip" is now being derided as "tryhard" and "pretentious". Usually when a character is described as an "edgelord", they're being mocked for that perceived "too cool for school" attitude that was in the archetype from the 90's and most of the appeal of them, is completely ironic is how serious the character takes themselves. Edgelords themselves tend to be very divisive characters because either you unironically think they're cool, or you find them irritating for being "tryhards".

This is one of the main reasons Sonic is often mocked as a franchise; because its entire foundation was built upon being "edgier than Mario", while still ostensibly being a series for children.  Hence there's such a divide on how serious should be taking itself and why a character like Shadow (who is basically an even edgier Sonic) are so fucking divisive. 

 

The whole "edgy" archetype is effectively built on being controversial and divisive, for better or worse. 

 

[MetalSkulkBane]

@Dr. MechanoSo by your definition Batman is edgelord? At least in more serious continuities like Dark Knight trilogy?

@KuzuI agree with the spirit of your answer, but I still question it when picking actual examples.

Like, is Punisher an edgelord? What sets him apart from Venom?

What about Meta Knight? He's dark, serious character in fricckin Kirby. Does that make him edgelord? (I know, Kirby has spooky final bosses, but still)

What sets Reaper apart from any Sith?

[Kuzu]

Like I said, its dependent on the series. 

Punisher's whole thing though is that he murders indiscriminately and generally gets along really poorly with the rest of the Marvel superhero community as a result. Venom's whole thing is being the "Lethal Protector" as well and still has a huge hateboner for Peter. 

Meta Knight doesn't get featured anywhere near as often as other examples for him to really get mocked in the same way other examples do; Meta Knight is usually a one-off boss fight and basically disappears from the game.  

 

 

Like I said, it dependent on how hard the supposed "edgy" traits being pushed in the narrative. 

[Duelistic Nature]

5 hours ago, MilesJFox said:

In my personal opinion, none of these characters are Edgelords, including Shadow. Though I'm not sure about Kratos...and Batman too. At least with Batman, he is deliberately trying to be scary to intimidate criminals, so that edgyness has a purpose and isn't just for attention.
 

I actually had a discussion with one of my friends who has played ALL of the God of War games numerous times (I commend his persistence on the less stellar titles, but I am a fan of Sonic games, so who am I to judge). Is Kratos really edgy? let alone being an edge lord? His sole purpose for wanton man- /myth- /deity slaughter is revenge, his abrasive behavior isn't necessarily shocking or going against the status quo of any of the gods he rips apart.

In that sense, all the gods in the God of War games can be considered edgy because of their casualness to torture mortals, which well... on that tangent makes all mythological tales about the gods themselves have an edge.

So he came to the conclusion Kratos isn't edgy and in no sense an Edge lord. If anything he's in the same ballpark as the Punisher, but with some serious abrasive behaviour towards ANYONE.

[Dr. Mechano]

9 hours ago, MetalSkulkBane said:

@Dr. MechanoSo by your definition Batman is edgelord? At least in more serious continuities like Dark Knight trilogy?

I intuitively want to say no, but admittedly I'm not sure exactly how to justify it.

I also feel like Darth Vader (another entry on your list in the OP) doesn't qualify either... but young Anakin kinda does? So I feel like maybe it has more to do with the attitude, again. As Anakin, he comes off as a little whiney even as he's being corrupted by the dark side. But as Vader, he fully owns being a villain and lacks that whole "angry teenager" vibe.

[Kuzu]

Oh Vader is 100% an Edgelord, he just pulls it off better than he could as Anakin. 

Aesthetics are 95% of what helps Edgelords; if you don't LOOK cool, you're gonna have trouble convincing people you are. 

[MetalSkulkBane]

9 hours ago, Duelistic Nature said:

In that sense, all the gods in the God of War games can be considered edgy

That's funny though. The idea that someone isn't edgy if the rest of his surroundings is equally dark/brutal/shocking. That implies that if we take Edgelord and put him in the darker surroundings, he'll stop being Edgelord.

 

...maybe we need a different angle. What characters in your opinion are 100%, no hesitation, certified Edgelords? I saw someone claim Akuma from Street Fighter is 100% edgelord and even that feels odd to me. Ryuku from Kill La Kill shows up a lot as an example and that's even sillier.

[Danj86]

14 hours ago, MetalSkulkBane said:

...maybe we need a different angle. What characters in your opinion are 100%, no hesitation, certified Edgelords? I saw someone claim Akuma from Street Fighter is 100% edgelord and even that feels odd to me. Ryuku from Kill La Kill shows up a lot as an example and that's even sillier.

I'm honestly struggling to think of any. Maybe...The End?

< -Sonic Frontiers spoilers ahead.- >

Spoiler

Based on what it says in the fight against it, it kinda sounds like an edgelord. It's motivation for destroying seems to be, "just because."

Just look at it's dialogue. It's kinda corney, which works for an edgelord.

Quote

"Mortal, you have served your purpose. Now face your end. I am the all-consuming void. What can one mote of golden light illuminate within the abyss? Countless stars. Countless worlds. Countless lives. All fell to me, all brought to nothing. All the teeming chaos of creation? Brought to order. To neutrality. To nothing. I saw your mind as you ran through my prison. You have fought machines and gods. They were mighty? They were finite. I am infinite. I am nothing. You struggle as so many have done before. You will be consumed like all those before you. I saw your mind. Your courage never wavered. Why? Arrogance? Ignorance? Stupidity? I was contained once. Once. Is that why? My captors bent time and space. My captors built a whole reality to contain me. My captors burn their souls away to fuel their engines. And you? You glitter; you fly about me like a gnat. I am inevitable, I cannot be denied. You strike this incarnation with all your might. It changes nothing. You are not brave; you are not victorious. No matter what form I take... The End comes for you all!"

 

[batson]

As for actual human beings, I'm just gonna say this: Everyone of male gender who was on the internet in the 00's was an edgelord, because as grampa Simpson would say, "it was the style at the time". Being offensive in way on the internet that you weren't allowed to be IRL was part of the internet culture. It was quite simply expected. Which makes it funny when old internet personalities who (unlike most of us back then) made their real names known now have entire treasure troves of non PC content that people can bring up whenever they feel like it. The Game Grumps have entire N-word compilations, and even someone as vanilla as the Nostalgia Critic have tons of r*pe jokes in his oldest videos. A lot of these people are and even back then were more or less liberal and not some kind of far right shitlords (NOT including JonTron though, as we would later find out!), but again, it was the style at the time. May Jesus forgive us.

Oh wait, we're talkig fictional characters? Oh then yeah, I guess Shadow is kind of an edgelord.

[Dr. Mechano]

5 hours ago, batson said:

Everyone of male gender who was on the internet in the 00's was an edgelord, because as grampa Simpson would say, "it was the style at the time". Being offensive in way on the internet that you weren't allowed to be IRL was part of the internet culture. It was quite simply expected.

I've been on the internet since the late 90s and I didn't act like that.

No, my brand of cringy old internet humor was really bad "lol random" non-sequitur comedy, which was also in vogue at the time. (Because if something doesn't make sense, it's automatically funny, right?)

[batson]

7 minutes ago, Dr. Mechano said:

I've been on the internet since the late 90s and I didn't act like that.

No, my brand of cringy old internet humor was really bad "lol random" non-sequitur comedy, which was also in vogue at the time. (Because if something doesn't make sense, it's automatically funny, right?)

I want you to know that what I'm about to write is 100% true and not something I'm making up only after seeing this reply of yours:

As I was writing that last post of mine, and as I saw that you had already participated in this thread, I strongly considered adding a paragraph at the end like "Except for Dr. Mechano. He was a gentleman even back then". I'm not even kidding, I was this close to adding it but then I thought it might sound like a weird thing to point out right out of the blue.

But yes, I can bear witness to the fact that even back then you didn't indulge in edgelordery, at least not from what I can remember. I quick glance at your profile says you joined here in 2009, just like I did, but I distinctly recall you used to post on some of the older Sonic forums that exitsed in such plenty back in the day. I feel that as long as I've been part of the online Sonic fanbase (mid 00's) you've been "that guy who really likes Eggman, who has various names on various places but everyone in the fanbase sort of knows who he is".

As for me, I was never close to being as bad as a lot of other people, I can in all honesty say that much at least. I've always tried to be nice to individuals that I met online. Even as a teenager I hated the feeling of thinking that I might have seriously hurt some specific persons feelings. But I did use the typical edgelord language that had the unfortunate effect of being offensive to entire segments of society. The best example of that type of language that I can think of, that nearly all teenage boys and young men used back then but nodoby uses now unless they INTEND to offend, is the f-word. Not "fuck", but the derogarory term for homosexual. Like, remember how people that were obsessed with the classic Sonic games used to be reflexively called "classic f*gs"? It was a fanbase specific variant of the then internet-wide tendency to use the f-word as a suffix to just about any type of person found online. Like how people who wrote lenghty posts with a lot of thought behind them were "effort f*ags" for instance. I actually remember refering to myself as a "classic f*g" in a half-joking sort of way. 

But again, you were one of the few classy ones Dr, I can not and I will not deny that.