Matt98 Posted January 18, 2023 Share Posted January 18, 2023 If shadow is better than sonic why isn't he the main character of the series or am I wrong and they equal or is sonic really better or is it subjective and based on who's your favorite character I'm confused? And does shadow need a chaos emerald to use his chaos powers and does sonic have choas powers of his own? https://www.quora.com/Who-would-win-Shadow-or-Sonic https://board.sonicstadium.org/topic/23348-does-shadow-needs-chaos-emerald/page/5/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GX -The Spindash- Posted January 18, 2023 Share Posted January 18, 2023 I wouldn't say one of distinctly better than the other in a tangible way. Understanding the Sonic-Shadow generally requires understanding the archetypes they currently fall under right now. Sonic is a pretty standard shounen hero. He's energetic, he's upbeat, he'll get up to mischief, he cares about his friends, and he's just a bit dumb. To varying degrees, he's your Goku. Shadow has uncomfortably shifted across a few roles without really occupying a comfortable spot, but broadly, he still falls under the category of overly serious-minded rival, or your Vegeta if you will (but without the part where Dragon Ball series storylines actually find ways to make Vegeta funny and relatable). The relationship in this case isn't about one being stronger than the other. It's an emphasis on the rivalry, where each with different philosophies operate on a very close playing field so that the rivalry maintains. All that said, this is still a video game, so any given character is only ever as good as the player controlling them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlameStream Posted January 18, 2023 Share Posted January 18, 2023 Additionally, it's not unusual to have series where a side-character overwhelms the main character in power, fan-appeal etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt98 Posted January 18, 2023 Author Share Posted January 18, 2023 2 hours ago, GX -The Spindash- said: I wouldn't say one of distinctly better than the other in a tangible way. Understanding the Sonic-Shadow generally requires understanding the archetypes they currently fall under right now. Sonic is a pretty standard shounen hero. He's energetic, he's upbeat, he'll get up to mischief, he cares about his friends, and he's just a bit dumb. To varying degrees, he's your Goku. Shadow has uncomfortably shifted across a few roles without really occupying a comfortable spot, but broadly, he still falls under the category of overly serious-minded rival, or your Vegeta if you will (but without the part where Dragon Ball series storylines actually find ways to make Vegeta funny and relatable). The relationship in this case isn't about one being stronger than the other. It's an emphasis on the rivalry, where each with different philosophies operate on a very close playing field so that the rivalry maintains. All that said, this is still a video game, so any given character is only ever as good as the player controlling them. Oh ok each one has its strengths and weaknesses? 2 hours ago, FlameStream said: Additionally, it's not unusual to have series where a side-character overwhelms the main character in power, fan-appeal etc. It looks like sonic can do what shadow can with chaos emeralds https://characters.fandom.com/wiki/Super_Sonic and shadow is sonic's doppelganger. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shadow_the_Hedgehog Isnt the main character supposed to be the hero? Isn't both supposed to be equal? I mean yeah there will be some characters that aren't as popular it doesn't mean they are better. Isn't it subjective on who you like? @FlameStream Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GX -The Spindash- Posted January 18, 2023 Share Posted January 18, 2023 30 minutes ago, Matt98 said: Isn't the main character supposed to be the hero? Isn't both supposed to be equal? I mean yeah there will be some characters that aren't as popular it doesn't mean they are better. Isn't it subjective on who you like? @FlameStream Can be but doesn't have to be. Some characters just hit with the audience more than others. But that said, it's usually better to treat a fictional world better as a canvas for telling stories, and there are many ways and kinds of stories to tell with different types of character dynamics. Take the way the Sonic 2 movie plays out. Knuckles isn't a character that Sonic is "stronger" than, or can necessarily defeat, but the movie isn't really about which one is stronger. It's about Sonic learning the responsibilities of being a hero through his mistakes and his encounters with Tails and Knuckles, and for Knuckles to develop an understanding what authentic friendship is. The characters are who they are for the sake of the type of story you're attempting to tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt98 Posted January 18, 2023 Author Share Posted January 18, 2023 4 minutes ago, GX -The Spindash- said: Can be but doesn't have to be. Some characters just hit with the audience more than others. But that said, it's usually better to treat a fictional world better as a canvas for telling stories, and there are many ways and kinds of stories to tell with different types of character dynamics. Take the way the Sonic 2 movie plays out. Knuckles isn't a character that Sonic is "stronger" than, or can necessarily defeat, but the movie isn't really about which one is stronger. It's about Sonic learning the responsibilities of being a hero through his mistakes and his encounters with Tails and Knuckles, and for Knuckles to develop an understanding what authentic friendship is. The characters are who they are for the sake of the type of story you're attempting to tell. What you mean by this? (Can be but doesn't have to be. Some characters just hit with the audience more than others). Ok so it's like apples and oranges knuckles can't beat sonic either? @GX -The Spindash- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GX -The Spindash- Posted January 19, 2023 Share Posted January 19, 2023 1 minute ago, Matt98 said: What you mean by this? Generally, you can't control the degree what an audience attaches to. You can sometimes try as a storyteller though what characters do and say, but the audience is going to like what they like. A good example would be Nintendo's ARMS. While the game predominantly features Springman and Ribbongirl as the core characters, when one of the series' characters was added as DLC in Smash, it was fan favorite Minmin. 8 minutes ago, Matt98 said: Ok so it's like apples and oranges knuckles can't beat sonic either? What I'm saying is that there's not a hierarchy of "___ can beat ___," but rather, it depends on the kind of story you're trying to tell, such as a story about a character's personal growth, or a story about an underdog, or a story where someone has to cope with a mistake or failure or loss. If Kishimoto decided "Hey, I want the next Sonic game to be about Sonic losing to Shadow in a fight and having to deal with the aftermath of that," it could totally be done. It doesn't define one being better than the other, but it does tell a certain kind of story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt98 Posted January 19, 2023 Author Share Posted January 19, 2023 1 hour ago, GX -The Spindash- said: Generally, you can't control the degree what an audience attaches to. You can sometimes try as a storyteller though what characters do and say, but the audience is going to like what they like. A good example would be Nintendo's ARMS. While the game predominantly features Springman and Ribbongirl as the core characters, when one of the series' characters was added as DLC in Smash, it was fan favorite Minmin. What I'm saying is that there's not a hierarchy of "___ can beat ___," but rather, it depends on the kind of story you're trying to tell, such as a story about a character's personal growth, or a story about an underdog, or a story where someone has to cope with a mistake or failure or loss. If Kishimoto decided "Hey, I want the next Sonic game to be about Sonic losing to Shadow in a fight and having to deal with the aftermath of that," it could totally be done. It doesn't define one being better than the other, but it does tell a certain kind of story. Oh ok isn't sonic popular too or does it not matter? Oh ok kishimoto didn't say that right? @GX -The Spindash- 1 hour ago, GX -The Spindash- said: Generally, you can't control the degree what an audience attaches to. You can sometimes try as a storyteller though what characters do and say, but the audience is going to like what they like. A good example would be Nintendo's ARMS. While the game predominantly features Springman and Ribbongirl as the core characters, when one of the series' characters was added as DLC in Smash, it was fan favorite Minmin. What I'm saying is that there's not a hierarchy of "___ can beat ___," but rather, it depends on the kind of story you're trying to tell, such as a story about a character's personal growth, or a story about an underdog, or a story where someone has to cope with a mistake or failure or loss. If Kishimoto decided "Hey, I want the next Sonic game to be about Sonic losing to Shadow in a fight and having to deal with the aftermath of that," it could totally be done. It doesn't define one being better than the other, but it does tell a certain kind of story. Oh ok isn't sonic popular too or does it not matter? Oh ok kishimoto didn't say that right? shadow can create a black hole is that in that game? I played the game and don't remember that and sonic can do that chaos control and both need an emerald or fake emerald.@GX -The Spindash- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dreadknux Posted January 20, 2023 Share Posted January 20, 2023 I don’t think you can really have an interesting discussion about “who is stronger: Sonic or Shadow (or Knuckles, or X character)”, because the answers are always going to be subjective. That Quora post you shared a screenshot of, where the guy says that ‘Shadow hasn’t used his full Chaos Control powers but if he did he’d wipe the floor with Sonic’… it’s not really based on anything other than fan’s interpretations and people’s own personal headcanons. You could argue until the cows come home who would beat who in a fight, like those guys are doing, but you’d never come to a real answer because the truth is Sonic/Shadow/etc are only as strong as SEGA/Ian Flynn write them for a specific scene or adventure. Generally speaking though, Sonic and Shadow are written to be evenly matched. Shadow is (was?) the result of a serious amount of scientific engineering and has broadly the same speed and skills as Sonic as a result. But that’s not a bad thing for Sonic. Heroes are not generally written to be invincible (besides Superman, but even he has a weakness). Most heroes of any story have doppelgängers that can match them in some skills and best them in others. Shadow could, technically, go faster than Sonic, but he’d need a Chaos Emerald to do it. Knuckles has more power than Sonic, but this can be countered by Sonic’s acrobatics. We see these strengths and weaknesses played out in the movies and games, as GX mentioned. So I wouldn’t worry too much about whether Sonic is the hero or not, or stronger than Shadow or whoever, really. Sonic will always be the hero, and will always win because of that (just not always very obviously, in order to make a story interesting - see the comics). I would say it’s great to see fans debating who would win in a fight between characters though (on Quora that is - I don’t think I’d have the patience to see this kind of discussion too often on SSMB, I’ve mostly outgrown that sort of chat ), because it shows that there is a lot of interesting details within in the Sonic universe/canon that SEGA and Sonic Team have created for us to talk about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt98 Posted January 20, 2023 Author Share Posted January 20, 2023 12 hours ago, Dreadknux said: I don’t think you can really have an interesting discussion about “who is stronger: Sonic or Shadow (or Knuckles, or X character)”, because the answers are always going to be subjective. That Quora post you shared a screenshot of, where the guy says that ‘Shadow hasn’t used his full Chaos Control powers but if he did he’d wipe the floor with Sonic’… it’s not really based on anything other than fan’s interpretations and people’s own personal headcanons. You could argue until the cows come home who would beat who in a fight, like those guys are doing, but you’d never come to a real answer because the truth is Sonic/Shadow/etc are only as strong as SEGA/Ian Flynn write them for a specific scene or adventure. Generally speaking though, Sonic and Shadow are written to be evenly matched. Shadow is (was?) the result of a serious amount of scientific engineering and has broadly the same speed and skills as Sonic as a result. But that’s not a bad thing for Sonic. Heroes are not generally written to be invincible (besides Superman, but even he has a weakness). Most heroes of any story have doppelgängers that can match them in some skills and best them in others. Shadow could, technically, go faster than Sonic, but he’d need a Chaos Emerald to do it. Knuckles has more power than Sonic, but this can be countered by Sonic’s acrobatics. We see these strengths and weaknesses played out in the movies and games, as GX mentioned. So I wouldn’t worry too much about whether Sonic is the hero or not, or stronger than Shadow or whoever, really. Sonic will always be the hero, and will always win because of that (just not always very obviously, in order to make a story interesting - see the comics). I would say it’s great to see fans debating who would win in a fight between characters though (on Quora that is - I don’t think I’d have the patience to see this kind of discussion too often on SSMB, I’ve mostly outgrown that sort of chat ), because it shows that there is a lot of interesting details within in the Sonic universe/canon that SEGA and Sonic Team have created for us to talk about. Oh ok so sonic and shadow both can die if they are defeated and sonic is still even or can handle his own and is better in other areas shadow isn't and vice versa? @Dreadknux Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt98 Posted January 20, 2023 Author Share Posted January 20, 2023 12 hours ago, Dreadknux said: I don’t think you can really have an interesting discussion about “who is stronger: Sonic or Shadow (or Knuckles, or X character)”, because the answers are always going to be subjective. That Quora post you shared a screenshot of, where the guy says that ‘Shadow hasn’t used his full Chaos Control powers but if he did he’d wipe the floor with Sonic’… it’s not really based on anything other than fan’s interpretations and people’s own personal headcanons. You could argue until the cows come home who would beat who in a fight, like those guys are doing, but you’d never come to a real answer because the truth is Sonic/Shadow/etc are only as strong as SEGA/Ian Flynn write them for a specific scene or adventure. Generally speaking though, Sonic and Shadow are written to be evenly matched. Shadow is (was?) the result of a serious amount of scientific engineering and has broadly the same speed and skills as Sonic as a result. But that’s not a bad thing for Sonic. Heroes are not generally written to be invincible (besides Superman, but even he has a weakness). Most heroes of any story have doppelgängers that can match them in some skills and best them in others. Shadow could, technically, go faster than Sonic, but he’d need a Chaos Emerald to do it. Knuckles has more power than Sonic, but this can be countered by Sonic’s acrobatics. We see these strengths and weaknesses played out in the movies and games, as GX mentioned. So I wouldn’t worry too much about whether Sonic is the hero or not, or stronger than Shadow or whoever, really. Sonic will always be the hero, and will always win because of that (just not always very obviously, in order to make a story interesting - see the comics). I would say it’s great to see fans debating who would win in a fight between characters though (on Quora that is - I don’t think I’d have the patience to see this kind of discussion too often on SSMB, I’ve mostly outgrown that sort of chat ), because it shows that there is a lot of interesting details within in the Sonic universe/canon that SEGA and Sonic Team have created for us to talk about. I should ignore this guy? @Dreadknux Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dreadknux Posted January 20, 2023 Share Posted January 20, 2023 I mean, it’s all open to interpretation. There isn’t really a right or wrong answer here honestly… I think you can either ignore that guy or talk to them directly and say why you think Sonic would win (or why you might think Shadow would win too). But yeah, you don’t have to keep posting screenshots of things other people say on other websites. What they think is what they think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt98 Posted January 21, 2023 Author Share Posted January 21, 2023 On 1/20/2023 at 2:14 PM, Dreadknux said: I mean, it’s all open to interpretation. There isn’t really a right or wrong answer here honestly… I think you can either ignore that guy or talk to them directly and say why you think Sonic would win (or why you might think Shadow would win too). But yeah, you don’t have to keep posting screenshots of things other people say on other websites. What they think is what they think. Ok So just because sonic has less choas powers doesn't mean he can't beat shadow? @Dreadknux Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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