A silly theory about Amy

[redmenace]

If Amy was to lose all respect, than kidnapped would be the only role she could be suited for. The same goes for the rest. If Tails were to dawn an "I'm with stupid" tee, His legitimacy as a genius would falter (actually that would depend on his present company). When I say, a degree of seriousness, I mean that Amy requires an appearance suitable enough to sway Shadow during SA2 while still able to feed into her Heroes mindset. There is no way her old design would have been capable of that. I am not one to judge from appearances, but I know I wouldn't think twice about advice that old Amy would give. God knows what Shadow would have thought.

Amy's character has adopted the role of emotional consort/support lately, to go along with the psyco, D.I.D. and cheerleader traits. While the latter can be achieved by her old model, the former requires a higher plane of discipline which that Amy does not possess.

Not serious as in grim reality, serious as in preconceived respect. Modern Amy has classic Amy beat hands down there.

I was under the impression you were speaking about her right now, but if all of this is because she dressed weirdly in Sonic CD, it still strikes me as quite... shallow. A character's personality isn't what he dresses, though it can show a lot about them. What I mean, it's not all there is to it. Shadow only listened to Amy because she talked to his heart, not because she wore a red short dress.

And Tails got in trouble in SA (beginning), SA2 (ransomed with Amy) and in Sonic Unleashed, Knuckles was kidnapped in Chronicles at least and is always getting the emerald stolen to the point of being a joke now, Rouge got stuck inside of a vault in SA2 and behaves awkwardly when soemthing shiny is involved, Shadow is always mumbling about his past or Maria until the end of his game, and even stuck inside a refrigerator between SA2 and Sonic Heroes. Why them getting kidnapped, getting in trouble, acting like idiots is good but for Amy is bad then? It's just how a story is constructed.

I don't get your point, at all.

[Mie]

I can't help but feel like you guys are microexamining this topic at levels her creator never meant it to be observed at, even if it is just playing the "what if" game for kicks and giggles. A lot of people seem to be taking it seriously, but I could be wrong, for that's the drawback of textual communication.

Regardless, I felt like jumping in just because despite my apathy from more recent canons, I do still nurse a soft spot for Amy, and I'm used to practically being flogged for positive mention of her, so it tickled me to see some discussion about wanting her to be a more respectable character.

Honestly, she's the oldest female of the series, and I don't care if she can compete with Rouge's rack or Cream's cuteness or Blaze's manliness feminism, that carries some weight, and I think it's owed to her to be a good character. Now, I'm probably one of the only people who liked both outfits. I felt like the second signaled a much needed transition to maturity, independence, and emotional and physical development. The first was cute in that spunky kid-next-door-with-a-crush-on-me look, and I feel that donning the red frock made sense, since Sonic's favorite color has historically been red. Of course you'd dress in your guy's favorite color.

Honestly, I don't think what she wears bears much on her viability as a real character, but what bothers me is that she was headed in such a good direction with the Adventure series. She was becoming something that people could like, even if she was pink (which I still think is a lame excuse to hate anything), but then Heroes came along, and then Sonic Battle, and I guess people thought that was funny, and suddenly, she became this OCD delusional psycho stalker of a bobble head and all that promising development fell flat on its face. That's when I started to become disenchanted with this series.

I'll admit, I haven't played a Sonic game since Riders. Can anyone tell me anything uplifting from the newer games, or was I right to have abstained?

[Sega DogTagz]

I was under the impression you were speaking about her right now, but if all of this is because she dressed weirdly in Sonic CD, it still strikes me as quite... shallow. A character's personality isn't what he dresses, though it can show a lot about them. What I mean, it's not all there is to it. Shadow only listened to Amy because she talked to his heart, not because she wore a red short dress.

Hardly. If I was an employer, I really wouldn’t put too much stock into anyone whom came at me without a proper suit. Does that make me shallow? Most certainly not. The same goes for a situation like this. I wouldn’t take advice from anyone dressed as classic Amy by today’s standards (there is a clear difference between being hip, a trend-setter and that) any more than I would be seeking financial consult from random hobo # 1. Does that make me shallow? Most certainly not.

The clothes, while noting more than a first impression, give the player insight into what kind of roles the character can play and still be believable. If the Big Boss in Unleashed got up and started rapping with Def Big, than I would not be the only one looking at him funny. His character is not designed to be capable of that, and we wouldn’t infer anything beyond the lolz of the moment. The same is true for my view of classic Amy. Should she stand up to speak from her heart, I would find it much more difficult to believe in the character and would likely leave feeling that they shoe-horned her into a role where she did not belong.

And Tails got in trouble in SA (beginning), SA2 (ransomed with Amy) and in Sonic Unleashed, Knuckles was kidnapped in Chronicles at least and is always getting the emerald stolen to the point of being a joke now, Rouge got stuck inside of a vault in SA2 and behaves awkwardly when soemthing shiny is involved, Shadow is always mumbling about his past or Maria until the end of his game, and even stuck inside a refrigerator between SA2 and Sonic Heroes. Why them getting kidnapped, getting in trouble, acting like idiots is good but for Amy is bad then? It's just how a story is constructed.

I don't get your point, at all.

Knuckles gullibility has always been a part of his characters personality. Tails got in trouble doing genius stuff and was out foxed by a genius in SA2. Rouge is expected to go gaga for emeralds and Shadow is still a tank.

The negative connotations do not take away from these characters legitimacy in what they can and can’t do. For me, changing Amy’s outfit to define her as even more of a joke would.

Edited November 10, 2009 by Sega DogTagz

[redmenace]

Hardly. If I was an employer, I really wouldn’t put too much stock into anyone whom came at me without a proper suit. Does that make me shallow? Most certainly not. The same goes for a situation like this. I wouldn’t take advice from anyone dressed as classic Amy by today’s standards (there is a clear difference between being hip, a trend-setter and that) any more than I would be seeking financial consult from random hobo # 1. Does that make me shallow? Most certainly not.

While I agree that clothes are important for characterization that talk with Shadow wasn't a business. Amy didn't need to be convincing or taken seriously, she just needed to remind him and that would've been done with either red dress or ridiculous clothes.

The clothes, while noting more than a first impression, give the player insight into what kind of roles the character can play and still be believable. If the Big Boss in Unleashed got up and started rapping with Def Big, than I would not be the only one looking at him funny. His character is not designed to be capable of that, and we wouldn’t infer anything beyond the lolz of the moment. The same is true for my view of classic Amy. Should she stand up to speak from her heart, I would find it much more difficult to believe in the character and would likely leave feeling that they shoe-horned her into a role where she did not belong.

I agree that it gives insight, what I don't agree is that it's a complete defining of the character.

The rapping thing, currently, there's a character in the manga Naruto that starts rapping for no apparent reason in the most appropriate ways, and even in the middle of battles he's losing. He's one of the strongest of the bunch at this point. Eggman is a rotund villain who likes eggs way too much. I'm supposed to take them seriously not because they act / look like a joke sometimes, but with what they accomplish. my was a joke all through SA2 and if it wasn't for her right at the very end, they'd all be dead.

Knuckles gullibility has always been a part of his characters personality. Tails got in trouble doing genius stuff and was out foxed by a genius in SA2. Rouge is expected to go gaga for emeralds and Shadow is still a tank.

The negative connotations do not take away from these characters legitimacy in what they can and can’t do. For me, changing Amy’s outfit to define her as even more of a joke would.

Knuckles is gulliable to the point of a joke?

Amy got in trouble while stalking Sonic around, which is what her role is in the first place, being an annoying fangirl that gets in trouble way too often. The same as Tails as you described, he got in trouble because of his role. Amy is expected to fangirl a lot and behave outrageously. What's so different?

I do agree that she needed a revamp, but because she needed to grow up and those clothes weren't hip anymore. If it changes her role or personality? I don't think so. I don't think apparence sets anything. A book should not be judged by it's cover.

[Sega DogTagz]

While I agree that clothes are important for characterization that talk with Shadow wasn't a business. Amy didn't need to be convincing or taken seriously, she just needed to remind him and that would've been done with either red dress or ridiculous clothes.

Its as much about the viewer as it is about Shadow. It would not convincing to watch a clown remind Shadow of his obligation to save the world, no matter how effective said clown could be. If Amy's looks were to lose credibility, than anyone viewing that scene would be left with a bad taste in their mouths. It would not be right. It would not FEEL right.

I agree that it gives insight, what I don't agree is that it's a complete defining of the character.

The rapping thing, currently, there's a character in the manga Naruto that starts rapping for no apparent reason in the most appropriate ways, and even in the middle of battles he's losing. He's one of the strongest of the bunch at this point. Eggman is a rotund villain who likes eggs way too much. I'm supposed to take them seriously not because they act / look like a joke sometimes, but with what they accomplish. my was a joke all through SA2 and if it wasn't for her right at the very end, they'd all be dead.

And if Amy wants to keep playing roles like that, she needs to maintain what little credibility she still has. It is in her character to be taken hostage (no matter how much we complain) so that does not take away from her image. If she was sporting the green tu-tu than the viewer would be less inclined to take her words seriously when the time came for her to be serious.

Knuckles is gulliable to the point of a joke?

S3&K saw Eggman trick Knuckles into removing his own presence from the object he so zealously protected while somehow getting the Echidna to overlook colateral damage such as SETTING THE ISLAND ON FIRE.

yeah, I'd call that a joke.

Amy got in trouble while stalking Sonic around, which is what her role is in the first place, being an annoying fangirl that gets in trouble way too often. The same as Tails as you described, he got in trouble because of his role. Amy is expected to fangirl a lot and behave outrageously. What's so different?

Amy's role has expanded beyond psyco D.I.D.. She has evolved into a emotional support character. While getting kidnapped is well within the scope of her character, it requires no more believability beyond the fact that she exists. To be an emotional support character, she needs to exude some kind of stability and respect in order to make the role effective.

If we were to turn her into a bigger joke, than she could no longer play that advanced role. There is no difference, as the same would be true of Knuckles or Tails, but they have no controversial/goofy looking classic design to argue over.

I do agree that she needed a revamp, but because she needed to grow up and those clothes weren't hip anymore. If it changes her role or personality? I don't think so. I don't think apparence sets anything. A book should not be judged by it's cover.

And at the same time, a girl that wants to avoid being addressed as a hooker needs to avoid dressing like one. Assumptions will always be made about the way characters are dressed. We cant judge books by their cover but it is a very good insight into what that book is going to be about.

Amy took on a new role with her new look and I seriously doubt a return to her classic duds would be capable of filling the current Amy's boots.

[redmenace]

I had a large post to answer to that but it doesn't matter. I can't understand your point and you can't understand mine. To me clothes aren't everything, and a joke character can still be the most insightfull of a series if done well. Amy wearing a tutu or a petticoat is the same to me.

[Sega DogTagz]

I had a large post to answer to that but it doesn't matter. I can't understand your point and you can't understand mine. To me clothes aren't everything, and a joke character can still be the most insightfull of a series if done well. Amy wearing a tutu or a petticoat is the same to me.

Ummm, okay. Lets take this really slow then.

How can the viewer be expected to appreciate a serious moment (because they are existent in this series) if the character pushing the story looks like they are better suited to drooling and only pushing their own ridiculous interests?

[Mie]

Ummm, okay. Lets take this really slow then.

How can the viewer be expected to appreciate a serious moment (because they are existent in this series) if the character pushing the story looks like they are better suited to drooling and only pushing their own ridiculous interests?

It's just hard to extrapolate your point of view that orange tutus and princess-sleeved polo shirts equate drooling and selfishness. Her old style of dress was childish, I'll give you that. I wore something similar on my first day in first grade; does that mean my teacher and peers should have expected me to be mentally inept and self-serving?

It's just a matter of taste, and while I agree that the way one chooses to dress can give insight into their personality, it doesn't define it, and they can still be perfectly viable story devices.

You're obviously vehemently against the old garb, and that's fine, but I just don't see how you can claim it could have ruined a scene. That's your opinion, and I'm not sure you can make others understand it when it's so obstinate to us.

[Phos]

Regardless, I felt like jumping in just because despite my apathy from more recent canons, I do still nurse a soft spot for Amy, and I'm used to practically being flogged for positive mention of her, so it tickled me to see some discussion about wanting her to be a more respectable character.

Sounds like... SatAM fans?

Honestly, she's the oldest female of the series, and I don't care if she can compete with Rouge's rack or Cream's cuteness or Blaze's manliness feminism, that carries some weight, and I think it's owed to her to be a good character. Now, I'm probably one of the only people who liked both outfits. I felt like the second signaled a much needed transition to maturity, independence, and emotional and physical development. The first was cute in that spunky kid-next-door-with-a-crush-on-me look, and I feel that donning the red frock made sense, since Sonic's favorite color has historically been red. Of course you'd dress in your guy's favorite color.

Honestly, I don't think what she wears bears much on her viability as a real character, but what bothers me is that she was headed in such a good direction with the Adventure series. She was becoming something that people could like, even if she was pink (which I still think is a lame excuse to hate anything), but then Heroes came along, and then Sonic Battle, and I guess people thought that was funny, and suddenly, she became this OCD delusional psycho stalker of a bobble head and all that promising development fell flat on its face. That's when I started to become disenchanted with this series.

I'll admit, I haven't played a Sonic game since Riders. Can anyone tell me anything uplifting from the newer games, or was I right to have abstained?

On the subject of what she wears, it seems like she should wear different cloths every now and then.

Edit: Amy's old attire was appropriate for her age in Sonic CD, iirc, she was younger than Tails.

Amy was funny in Sonic Battle, but it seemed as though it was at the game's expense. I think they were going for something comically over the top, and ended up succeeding, but made the whole thing really stupid. Basically like a Youtube poop, I guess.

If you want something positive about Amy in a more recent Sonic game, she seems pretty level headed in Unleashed, though they don't really go anywhere with her subplot.

Edited November 11, 2009 by Phos

[Mie]

Sounds like... SatAM fans?

How'd you know?

On the subject of what she wears, it seems like she should wear different cloths every now and then.

Edit: Amy's old attire was appropriate for her age in Sonic CD, iirc, she was younger than Tails.

I totally agree, and would like to see a little more diversity, but I just always chalked it up to cartoon mechanics, you know? Homer Simpson's been wearing the same thing for like 20 years now.

As for the Sonic CD age thing, it's... weird. I'm not sure what to think about that, anymore. Most fans are in agreement that CD took place between Sonic 1 and 2, and in that game, Amy is officially 8, and Sonic is officially 16, but are we really supposed to believe there's 4 years in the canon between CD and Adventure? I don't think so, 'cause Sonic regressed to 15, while Amy aged four years. So I dunno what the official stand on that is supposed to be, but I think that Cream now fills the roll Amy was supposed to fill.

Plus, I feel it necessary to point out that American fads come in late in Japan, so Amy's debut in 1992 is perfectly in sync with the 80's wave in the land of the rising sun, which possibly gives some insight into her palette. In my opinion, the whole thing could work so much better if not for the colors.

Amy was funny in Sonic Battle, but it seemed as though it was at the game's expense. I think they were going for something comically over the top, and ended up succeeding, but made the whole thing really stupid. Basically like a Youtube poop, I guess.

I will admit I was very amused at the time. But I was bothered when I saw that insanity bleeding into other games. It's like all the characters became big talking heads with one unrealistically overblown personality trait.

If you want something positive about Amy in a more recent Sonic game, she seems pretty level headed in Unleashed, though they don't really go anywhere with her subplot.

That figures.

Edited November 11, 2009 by Mie

[Teoleulbogo]

Wow, it's amasing how a topic on the theory that Amy might be wearing inhibitor rings can transform into a discussion about wether amy is hot or dresses like a hooker or even if she's some sort of symbol for women or something(I reely just started skimming posts like these after a while) it's not like I think all of this is stupid and off topic, I'm just saying.

[Sega DogTagz]

You're obviously vehemently against the old garb, and that's fine, but I just don't see how you can claim it could have ruined a scene. That's your opinion, and I'm not sure you can make others understand it when it's so obstinate to us.

I don't want to try to convert people to my opinion. That would be a waste of time and effort. But there is a serious disconnect here that I want to clear up because there is a difference between my opinion and a universally understood conception that I want the rest of you to see. You actually already have agreed with me in a sense, I just need to point it out.

It's just hard to extrapolate your point of view that orange tutus and princess-sleeved polo shirts equate drooling and selfishness. Her old style of dress was childish, I'll give you that. I wore something similar on my first day in first grade; does that mean my teacher and peers should have expected me to be mentally inept and self-serving?

That right there. When we look at Classic Amy we all are bombarded with that same sense of childishness. Its not just opinion, we can all look at it and come to a similar conclusion. How could anyone take a kid in the first grade seriously enough to the extent that was necessary in either 06 or SA2? Any legitimacy her character had gets flung out the window, it just would not be believable (or as believable as her current model if you will).

At least give me a Modern Amy > Classic Amy in the legitimacy argument. That's all I have been looking for anyway.

[Blazey Firekitty]

If clothes make the woman, so to speak, I wonder what it would say about Amy if she spent all of her time in a bear suit.^_~

[Solly]

I don't think Amy's bracelets give her any benefits/suppress any abilities.

I was never really fond of the whole "inhibitor rings" thing. I mean, the more awesome things we can do with rings the better, but I don't like the idea that Shadow's just so damn good that he needs to suppress his power with super-science.

I believe Sonic X explained that the rings not only suppress his full power, but also prevent him from running out of stamina quickly. This is supported by the ending of SA2 when Shadow falls to Earth(presumably because he tired to the point where he couldn't fight anymore) without his bracelets.

But then again, some will argue that because he wasn't visibly fatigued in Sonic 06, that the bracelets to not help him maintain stamina.

[Mie]

I don't want to try to convert people to my opinion. That would be a waste of time and effort. But there is a serious disconnect here that I want to clear up because there is a difference between my opinion and a universally understood conception that I want the rest of you to see. You actually already have agreed with me in a sense, I just need to point it out.

That right there. When we look at Classic Amy we all are bombarded with that same sense of childishness. Its not just opinion, we can all look at it and come to a similar conclusion. How could anyone take a kid in the first grade seriously enough to the extent that was necessary in either 06 or SA2? Any legitimacy her character had gets flung out the window, it just would not be believable (or as believable as her current model if you will).

At least give me a Modern Amy > Classic Amy in the legitimacy argument. That's all I have been looking for anyway.

And that's fine, but your restated original point was that that particular design alone inferred that viewers should have immediately assumed her to be retarded and selfish. You exact words were drooling and "only pushing" her "own ridiculous interests." You can't expound that much from clothing. Childishness, sure. Immaturity, maybe, that's stretching it, but I just didn't think it was fair to basically rule her out as a character solely based on that, because, in that light, if she'd never gotten her redesign, she never would have been a good character.

I simply disagree.

[Sega DogTagz]

if she'd never gotten her redesign, she never would have been a good character.

I simply disagree.

I say If she never got her redesign she would be ill-capable of preforming the tasks asked of her character today.

But whatever. I'll hold up this banner over here by myself.

***********

While we're on the topic of Amy's rings, I am surprised that no one brought up Wave. Not only does she sport wrist rings (that are even more similar in shape to Shadow's than Amy's) but she even rocks the tabbed gloves Shadow first introduced.

[redmenace]

^Completely forgot about Wave. I guess Shadow likes to dress like the ladies.

Ummm, okay. Lets take this really slow then.

How can the viewer be expected to appreciate a serious moment (because they are existent in this series) if the character pushing the story looks like they are better suited to drooling and only pushing their own ridiculous interests?

Er... from the same place you take an anthro cartoony animal seriously? Or a villain shaped like an egg and whose name is Eggman? I don't see the point in trying to make a character be taken seriously because of her appearance when the whole franchise cannot be done so by appearances alone either.

Past this and from other user's posts.

I kind of agree with Amy getting different attires every now and then, and not be stuck with the red dress forever. She's been changing them for spinoffs like Riders and Mario and Sonic, and I'm rather fond of the idea, she's fashionable after all. It suits the character and it adds some variety.

[Blazey Firekitty]

Debatable. While her Hero quotient has risen, so has her stock for being a Damsel in Distress.

-Sonic Adventure

-Sonic Adventure 2

-Sonic Riders

-Sonic Riders 2 (although she resolved her own situation)

-Sonic Rivals

-Unleashed (possibly)

There are probably a few I am forgetting too. Needless to say, Sonic has had to come to her rescue quite alot recently.

Heh, good point(Aside from her not being kidnapped in Unleashed, but you already noted that you weren't sure about that one, so I guess I'm nitpicking.^_~). Would be nice if Amy weren't captured so often, but I guess knowing that she has actual fighting skill by now is a step in the right direction.^^