'Sonic Origins Plus' rated in Korea

[Ryannumber1gamer]

6 hours ago, LegoFedora said:

The HD port of Fighters is backwards compatible on Xbox, the work for getting that version of the game running on modern hardware has already been done. They may have to slightly tweak it per platform, sure, and remove multiplayer. But besides that, there isn't a reason for them not to use the HD port outside of wanting to stick to the "true, authentic experience".

Maybe PC could require a bit more effort, but even then I'm sure sega could find a way to make it work.

To my knowledge, it’s not as simple as that. Series X Backwards Compatibility is essentially the devs and/or Xbox themselves just going back through the game with a fine toothed comb, and ensuring that there’s no severe glitches and problems that occur from the BC (IE, what happened with quite a few of the OG Xbox games that are on 360).

Even then, it’s not perfect, usually the 4K work comes from a upscale method, or frame rate enhancements aren’t as perfect. We have a perfect example of that in this series - Generations runs perfectly at 60fps on PC, because the PC port was built with higher frame rates in mind. The Series X BC version on the other hand has a serious bug on Chemical Plant Act 2 when playing at 60fps which completely locks off a route because Modern Sonic can’t homing attack to a crane for some reason. You can even tell it’s running via emulation because it uses the 369 menu, assets and achievements, it runs in a ‘360’ mode. It’s just not locked out from using the Series X’s power to enhance itself.

The Series X BC versions aren’t proper ports to new hardware, they’re the 360 versions running with enhancements, and a double check to ensure there’s no major bugs, and even then, it’s not a perfect check. Fighters’ port on Series X doesn’t mean much because it’s still the original 360 version that’s running on a Series X, and still using all of the things built for the 360 version years ago, servers included. It’s not just as easy as slapping that onto PS4 and call it a day.

[DaBigJ]

First two images look pretty cool and I hope SEGA does them to some degree, not sure about the third one though, a playable Robotnik would be weird as hell.

[Blue Blood]

56 minutes ago, Ryannumber1gamer said:

To my knowledge, it’s not as simple as that. 

For whatever it's worth, Fighters already exists on PS4, XB1, PS5 and XSX; it's fully playable in Lost Judgement. If SEGA wanted to include it, they have the means to do so. I think it's emulated, but accurate emulations are fine.

Then there's also the PS3/360 version which is a modern enough that it shouldn't be too much trouble to port. Getting an enhanced version Fighters on to modern platforms should be less work than Chaotix, 3D, Spinball or R. And if history is anything to go by, it's more likely too. Those games are all stuck in their own platform specific hells for whatever reasons. 

[Ryannumber1gamer]

27 minutes ago, Blue Blood said:

For whatever it's worth, Fighters already exists on PS4, XB1, PS5 and XSX; it's fully playable in Lost Judgement. If SEGA wanted to include it, they have the means to do so. I think it's emulated, but accurate emulations are fine.

Then there's also the PS3/360 version which is a modern enough that it shouldn't be too much trouble to port. Getting an enhanced version Fighters on to modern platforms should be less work than Chaotix, 3D, Spinball or R. And if history is anything to go by, it's more likely too. Those games are all stuck in their own platform specific hells for whatever reasons. 

That's what I'm primarily saying, if Fighters is included, it'll be what we got included in Lost Judgement.

[Shaddy Zaphod]

Isn't the PS3/360 version of Fighters still emulated? It's basically just hacked to add widescreen and fix some of the problems with some extra characters.

[DaBigJ]

Being totally, 100% honest here...if they included any new games, it'd probably be 3D Blast, Sonic Spinball, MAYBE Knuckles Chaotic, or the Game Gear games. 3D and Spinball are probably the most likely inclusions because

A. They already have a working Genesis emulator on modern consoles

and B. Their soundtracks are DLC, so it'd be the next logical step to include the games themselves.

Though Knowing SEGA they'll probably throw some curveball game like, I dunno, Mean Bean Machine or Sonic Labyrinth.

[Dreadknux]

11 hours ago, Ryannumber1gamer said:

and the fact Taxman was very public about his dissatisfaction with how SEGA forced them to rush S3&K's port job to completion, possibly burning bridges with them for outing that information in the first place, it's hard for me to say how likely any of that is, unless SEGA is willing to overlook it, or Taxman already had the work done prior to Origins' release (doubtful, given the unpolished state of Origins initially).

Just to clarify, that was all Stealth not Taxman. Taxman wasn’t involved in any way with Sonic Origins, (beyond licensing the Retro Engine over to SEGA for the project, I understand). Main developers were SEGA internal and Headcannon/Stealth.

But yeah, the situation back when Stealth was going public about all that stuff has likely changed since then (ie. It was probably true that SEGA did not intend to budget for more patches, but then for whatever reason changed their mind - either because they were planning a Plus version to be developed in the first place and didn’t want to drag on any post-launch dev of Origins, or maybe because they were convinced that doing a Plus version would be a good idea). So unless Headcannon aren’t involved in this, I’d say whatever animosity that was there on Stealth’s side has probably been resolved?

Interesting thoughts re: people arguing against 3D/Spinball etc from being added due to the emulation angle. I didn’t consider that perhaps SEGA would want to keep any titles in the collection consistent in terms of them being full HD remasters rather than ROMs. Do we think the Retro Engine is versatile enough to remaster Spinball and 3D? Seems like it was enough of a challenge to adapt it for S3K!

[DaBigJ]

No way in hell they'd remaster 3D Blast, that'd take a lot of time and effort. Especially if they add new content like they did with the other remasters.

[TheOcelot]

46 minutes ago, Dreadknux said:

Do we think the Retro Engine is versatile enough to remaster Spinball and 3D? Seems like it was enough of a challenge to adapt it for S3K!

I think Stealth said it would take about 12 months to develop a remaster of 3K (double the development time of S2 remaster). 

Retro engine produced Mania so I'd imagine could easily handle a Spinball remaster (a smaller game). As for 3D Blast, well I bet "Star Engine" which is the newest version of the Retro Engine (which EveningStar are using for their new 3D game) could easily handle a 3D Blast remaster. However, as DaBigK said it would take time and effort, not much of which seems to have gone into Vanilla Origins and there probably will be even less time to make more remasters in time for "Plus" release-whenever that is. Also, taking into account that Taxman/EveningStar are busy and Stealth announced back in Oct/Nov that Headcannon is working on other stuff, there doesn't appear to be anyone available make more remasters anyway.

[Ryannumber1gamer]

42 minutes ago, Dreadknux said:

Just to clarify, that was all Stealth not Taxman. Taxman wasn’t involved in any way with Sonic Origins, (beyond licensing the Retro Engine over to SEGA for the project, I understand). Main developers were SEGA internal and Headcannon/Stealth.

But yeah, the situation back when Stealth was going public about all that stuff has likely changed since then (ie. It was probably true that SEGA did not intend to budget for more patches, but then for whatever reason changed their mind - either because they were planning a Plus version to be developed in the first place and didn’t want to drag on any post-launch dev of Origins, or maybe because they were convinced that doing a Plus version would be a good idea). So unless Headcannon aren’t involved in this, I’d say whatever animosity that was there on Stealth’s side has probably been resolved?

Interesting thoughts re: people arguing against 3D/Spinball etc from being added due to the emulation angle. I didn’t consider that perhaps SEGA would want to keep any titles in the collection consistent in terms of them being full HD remasters rather than ROMs. Do we think the Retro Engine is versatile enough to remaster Spinball and 3D? Seems like it was enough of a challenge to adapt it for S3K!

I’m kicking myself, because I actually had a feeling it was Headcannon/Stealth, and had begun editing my post before posting to rectify that, until a quick Google search claimed otherwise, must have misread it. My bad.

39 minutes ago, DaBigJ said:

No way in hell they'd remaster 3D Blast, that'd take a lot of time and effort. Especially if they add new content like they did with the other remasters.

 

44 minutes ago, Dreadknux said:

Interesting thoughts re: people arguing against 3D/Spinball etc from being added due to the emulation angle. I didn’t consider that perhaps SEGA would want to keep any titles in the collection consistent in terms of them being full HD remasters rather than ROMs. Do we think the Retro Engine is versatile enough to remaster Spinball and 3D? Seems like it was enough of a challenge to adapt it for S3K!

I’d say what’s frustrating about it is we already have the Director’s Cut patch from one of the original TT programmers that can easily be added to the Steam version, and brings numerous QoL changes that could bring it up to snuff with the other remasters in Origins, but it’d depend if SEGA would be willing to officially work with the programmer and acknowledge it as official. Not impossible, given Headcannon, Taxman and Stealth’s origins, but remains to be seen if they would be willing to do it again.

[LegoFedora]

6 hours ago, Ryannumber1gamer said:

To my knowledge, it’s not as simple as that. Series X Backwards Compatibility is essentially the devs and/or Xbox themselves just going back through the game with a fine toothed comb, and ensuring that there’s no severe glitches and problems that occur from the BC (IE, what happened with quite a few of the OG Xbox games that are on 360).

Even then, it’s not perfect, usually the 4K work comes from a upscale method, or frame rate enhancements aren’t as perfect. We have a perfect example of that in this series - Generations runs perfectly at 60fps on PC, because the PC port was built with higher frame rates in mind. The Series X BC version on the other hand has a serious bug on Chemical Plant Act 2 when playing at 60fps which completely locks off a route because Modern Sonic can’t homing attack to a crane for some reason. You can even tell it’s running via emulation because it uses the 369 menu, assets and achievements, it runs in a ‘360’ mode. It’s just not locked out from using the Series X’s power to enhance itself.

The Series X BC versions aren’t proper ports to new hardware, they’re the 360 versions running with enhancements, and a double check to ensure there’s no major bugs, and even then, it’s not a perfect check. Fighters’ port on Series X doesn’t mean much because it’s still the original 360 version that’s running on a Series X, and still using all of the things built for the 360 version years ago, servers included. It’s not just as easy as slapping that onto PS4 and call it a day.

Oh, I assumed being backwards compat meant they were reworked for the system and the legacy menus was for nostalgia/authenticity. That makes more sense then, my bad. I guess settling for the original version of Fighters wouldn't be too bad, having it playable at all would be nice (like most other sonic games at this point).

[McGroose]

Anyone see this yet? This was leaked several months ago apparently. No new games, but tbf this leak was before they did that survey, I think.
actually naw IDK why I thought they were gonna add new games. What a dumbass I was for having assumed that. 

This may be fake... but idk

[DaBigJ]

14 minutes ago, McGroose said:

Anyone see this yet? This was leaked several months ago apparently. No new games, but tbf this leak was before they did that survey, I think.
actually naw IDK why I thought they were gonna add new games. What a dumbass I was for having assumed that. 

This may be fake... but idk

>This may be fake

>Michael Jackson DLC

>may

nah son, this shit's fake as hell

[TheOcelot]

Lol, definitely fake.

[LegoFedora]

1 hour ago, McGroose said:

Anyone see this yet? This was leaked several months ago apparently. No new games, but tbf this leak was before they did that survey, I think.
actually naw IDK why I thought they were gonna add new games. What a dumbass I was for having assumed that. 

This may be fake... but idk

It seemed believable until they mentioned metal. If a character gets added to a classic game (mighty/ray with mania, knuckles to sonic 2) they always have something to set them apart from everyone else. Metal would most likely be just a palette swap of Sonic. He has to be, that's his entire shtick that he's just "Sonic but robot". Even if he said Amy it wouldn't have worked, Amy doesn't have much reason to be playable since she just...well...doesn't do anything in the classic series. Her only game is CD, where she's there for a whole 2 zones before being absent the entire game. Even in her debut game she's barely even a side note.

If any new characters get added, it'd be Mighty/Ray because the work for them is already done. With something like Metal and especially Amy they'd have to draw up a lot new sprites. Assuming headcannon and co. aren't working on plus (allegedly), as well as how much effort went into the vanilla version of this game, I have a feeling sega/sonic team is not going through all that trouble of making new sprite-sheets for 4 games.

BIG maybe for characters like Espio/Vector if the chaotix really does get a rework, since those characters may be similar to mighty/ray where most of the intensive spritework is already done for them and they'd just need a few specific set-piece related sprites and ending sprites. But with them we have the problem that Chaotix sprites would really clash with how the genesis games look, so who knows.

Spoiler

I am fully preparing myself mentally for this to just be a physical version of the digital deluxe edition, maybe with an art book at most.

 

[Dreadknux]

That is so obviously fake lol.

[Shiny Gems]

38 minutes ago, LegoFedora said:

It seemed believable until they mentioned metal. If a character gets added to a classic game (mighty/ray with mania, knuckles to sonic 2) they always have something to set them apart from everyone else. Metal would most likely be just a palette swap of Sonic. He has to be, that's his entire shtick that he's just "Sonic but robot". Even if he said Amy it wouldn't have worked, Amy doesn't have much reason to be playable since she just...well...doesn't do anything in the classic series. Her only game is CD, where she's there for a whole 2 zones before being absent the entire game. Even in her debut game she's barely even a side note.

If any new characters get added, it'd be Mighty/Ray because the work for them is already done. With something like Metal and especially Amy they'd have to draw up a lot new sprites. Assuming headcannon and co. aren't working on plus (allegedly), as well as how much effort went into the vanilla version of this game, I have a feeling sega/sonic team is not going through all that trouble of making new sprite-sheets for 4 games.

BIG maybe for characters like Espio/Vector if the chaotix really does get a rework, since those characters may be similar to mighty/ray where most of the intensive spritework is already done for them and they'd just need a few specific set-piece related sprites and ending sprites. But with them we have the problem that Chaotix sprites would really clash with how the genesis games look, so who knows.

  Hide contents

I am fully preparing myself mentally for this to just be a physical version of the digital deluxe edition, maybe with an art book at most.

Eh, too good to be true. I am not believing this little leak.

[Vlad the Vampire]

I hope it is fake!!...
I don't want SONIC 4 to be removed from the canon (it's such a pity for me EPISODE 3 was canceled)!!...
And I don't like what ORIGINS did with the Story Mode, almost erasing adventures like SONIC 2 8-bit...
By the way, do we know if Ian Flynn made an official timeline for he games?!...

[Shiny Gems]

I do believe that leak is fake, but unrelated to that; this is rather unlikely, but the Carnival Night music for acts 1 and 2; I do hope they make a better version of those tracks in the game since they may have had more time and no rush to make it better. Ice Cap and Launch Base's music tracks are fine.

Like I said, it is unlikely, but hey; I can dream, can I?

[Iko]

Amy is so prominently featured into all the promotional material AND cutscenes of the base game already to the point that it makes you wonder if she was planned as playable since the beginning; if they add a new playable character (something that seems so likely) it's without any doubt Amy, for sure.

All this just to say that the leak is fake as heck.

Also, linking the game to Mania wouldn't erease Sonic 4 from anything, we already know that many games have been removed from the story mode but they are still canon (they simply didn't mention those events for the sake of simplifying stuff)... and Sonic 4 could have happend AFTER Mania as well, Mania's story is pretty much a side story, so it could fit anywhere (the same is true of Sonic 4, it even makes more sense after Mania since Metal Sonic is still broken on Little Planet and Little Planet itself is not a death egg yet, other than the fact of Little Planet returning means that the game takes place one year later from CD at least). Whatever they said about Sonic 4's story on that old official website was nonsense since the beginning so I don't care about it...

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

The whole "erasing Sonic 4" bit feels way too specific a detail, unless supposedly there's blatantly something that contradicts the events of that game in the update. Pretty doubtful in that area, unless it's accompanied by official word of SEGA themselves.

[DaBigJ]

52 minutes ago, Vlad the Vampire said:

I don't want SONIC 4 to be removed from the canon (it's such a pity for me EPISODE 3 was canceled)!!...
And I don't like what ORIGINS did with the Story Mode, almost erasing adventures like SONIC 2 8-bit...

Sonic 4 removes itself from canon by having Sonic CD basically be considered it's prequal in advertising for Episode 1 (if memory is correct) despite it being directly Sonic 4.

Origins didn't erase any of the 8-bit games, they're just not relevant to the game itself since...y'know...they weren't in Origins?

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

24 minutes ago, DaBigJ said:

Sonic 4 removes itself from canon by having Sonic CD basically be considered it's prequal in advertising for Episode 1 (if memory is correct) despite it being directly Sonic 4.

That's not really the case. It occurs at some point after CD, but not directly after.

Episode 2 is essentially Little Planet making its return, and then Eggman converting it into another Death Egg. Nothing really wipes it out from canon.

[DaBigJ]

Maybe I misremembered, it's been a while since it all happened. My bad

[Iko]

Speculation/headcanon here:

-Metal Sonic was destroyed on Little Planet in Sonic CD.

-Sonic Mania happens and Metal Sonic is found and repaired on Little Planet, then destroyed again (we don't know how much of Mania is real and how much of it is an illusion, the presence of Little Planet and its placement over Angel Island is weird and doesn't make much sense, so I guess it's all due to the Phantom Ruby somehow warping time and space).

-After one year, Little Planet is back again, and the events of Sonic 4 happen; Sonic the Fighters is in my opinion the unintentional direct sequel to Sonic 4 EP II - Metal Sonic gets destroyed and rebuilt on the Death Egg MKII aka Little Planet again, and the eighth Chaos Emerald is whatever purple orb Metal Sonic collected in Episode Metal.

-After those events, Metal Sonic returns in several other games including Triple Trouble and Knuckles Chaotix (but also some spin-offs), before the series did the style shift to modern.