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Did Sonic meet Amy or Tails first?


Blazey Firekitty

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Of the two, though, Amy is the one who'd be less likely to reappear at the time. This was the classic era, after all, when Tails was stuck to Sonic like glue and Amy hadn't had her Adventure series competence boost yet. I can't imagine her getting involved in taking down the Death Egg back then, even if she'd wanted to.

I actually kind of like the idea that Amy's known Sonic the longest of all the main cast members, even if they weren't close like Sonic and Tails were. It'd give her character a little more credibility, somehow.

Unless you count Sonic Labyrinth. And it's not like Amy sat back in Sonic the Fighters. But whatever.

Was there actually an official first meeting between Sonic and Amy? As far as I remember the Japanese backstory for Sonic CD started off with Sonic and Amy already knowing each other.

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As far as I remember the Japanese backstory for Sonic CD started off with Sonic and Amy already knowing each other.

She knew of him, and did the Tarot cards bit so she could go all fangirl on him on Little Planet, but she hadn't actually met him prior to Sonic CD.

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Well I have done some thinking, and I want to share what I have in mind, but it's really hard to explain my idea in a post, so please bare with me. Okay so after much thinking, I have concluded that the timeline of the classic games goes like this:

Sonic 1 / Tails Adventure > Sonic 2 > Sonic 3 > Sonic and Knuckles > Sonic CD / Tails Skypatrol > Knuckles' Chaotix > Sonic the Fighters

Explanation:

1. It is generally CONFIRMED that: Sonic 1 / Tails Adventure > Sonic 2 > Sonic 3 > Sonic and Knuckles

2. Since Metal Sonic is the most frequently used model (check #4 and #5), we can assume Metal S. comes after (and is superior than) Silver S. and Mecha S.. If that is true then we can ASSUME that Sonic CD happens AFTER the Death Egg Saga

3. In Sonic CD; Tails is absent, so he is probably sky patrolling at the time. So we can ASSUME that Tails Skypatrol happens SIMULTANEOUSLY with Sonic CD

4. In Knuckles Chaotix, Eggman uses Metal Sonic again. Confirming #2 and CONFIRMING that Knuckles Chaotix happens AFTER CD.

5. In Sonic the Fighters, Eggman builds the Death Egg 2 and puts Metal Sonic to use AGAIN. Further confirming #2. And since Espio joins the battle in this one, it is PROBABLE that Sonic the Fighters happens AFTER Knuckles Chaotix.

*. Also you can switch around Skypatrol, Chaotix and Fighters as much as you want, but it doesn't change the fact that CD happens after Death Egg saga. The latter two games are the ones that give us the evidence to confirm that fact.

So I say that Sonic met Tails first.

Any questions/problems?

Edited by UndertTenRocks
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Very nice timeline, using only those games at least. Don't know if you want to consider the other Game Gear games since you already included Tails Adventure and Tails Sky Patrol but it's something you might want to consider if you want to go further from there.

I'd just like to note that as I've stated before I don't feel it's neccessary to explain where a character is or is doing when they don't appear in a specific game. However I don't see any obvious fallicies for wanting Tails Sky Patrol to happen during the events of Sonic CD.

Also for #4, "confirm" might be too strong a word. In terms of just Sonic CD and Knuckles Chaotix, the pressence of Metal Sonic doesn't force either game to take place after one or the other since it's hard to tell which game is actually Metal Sonic's first outing(unless I'm missing some official source).

I also wouldn't say #4 "confirms" #2(that Sonic CD happens after Death Egg). It's just supporting evidence for the arguement that Metal Sonic is the "superior model" on the grounds that he's seen more usage than Mecha Sonic.

But otherwise very good.

Edited by Yong
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I like to think that the games featuring Metal Sonic take place at the same period. I view it as Sonic 3&K first, then Sonic CD, Chaotix, Triple Trouble, then Fighters.

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2. Since Metal Sonic is the most frequently used model (check #4 and #5), we can assume Metal S. comes after (and is superior than) Silver S. and Mecha S.. If that is true then we can ASSUME that Sonic CD happens AFTER the Death Egg Saga

Maybe. In games that are definitely part of the official timeline, it has only been used twice (Sonic CD and Sonic Heroes). The fact that Metal Sonic showed up in lots of spin-off material doesn't mean much of anything other than the character was popular.

3. In Sonic CD; Tails is absent, so he is probably sky patrolling at the time. So we can ASSUME that Tails Skypatrol happens SIMULTANEOUSLY with Sonic CD

You can't make this assumption:

  • It isn't set in stone when Sky Patrol actually happened. In fact, as I understand it, there aren't even any hints as to when the game happened.
  • There are other, equally likely explanations for Tails' absence that accepting such an assumption as fact outright ignores.

4. In Knuckles Chaotix, Eggman uses Metal Sonic again. Confirming #2 and CONFIRMING that Knuckles Chaotix happens AFTER CD

It confirms that Chaotix comes after Sonic CD, but it doesn't confirm when Sonic CD actually took place overall. The events of Chaotix implies that Sonic CD happened rather recently, but even that is suspect depending on your point of view (ie. Maybe Metal Sonic really isn't better than Silver Sonic. Maybe it simply has a different role). The continuity of Chaotix itself is also rather iffy.

5. In Sonic the Fighters, Eggman builds the Death Egg 2 and puts Metal Sonic to use AGAIN. Further confirming #2. And since Espio joins the battle in this one, it is PROBABLE that Sonic the Fighters happens AFTER Knuckles Chaotix.

I'm pretty sure the events of Sonic the Fighters mean absolutely nothing in the grand scheme of things.

*. Also you can switch around Skypatrol, Chaotix and Fighters as much as you want, but it doesn't change the fact that CD happens after Death Egg saga. The latter two games are the ones that give us the evidence to confirm that fact.

There is quite a lot of finality to that statement considering most of the evidence is assumptions that is built off of other assumptions. I backed up my interpretations of the timeline with official canon information, yet the farthest I went was saying that one scenario was more likely.

Very nice timeline, using only those games at least. Don't know if you want to consider the other Game Gear games since you already included Tails Adventure and Tails Sky Patrol but it's something you might want to consider if you want to go further from there.

It wouldn't matter. Barring the two Tails games and Sonic 1 8-bit, none of the Game Gear games can actually be canon; and even if they could they would all have to come after Sonic and Knuckles anyways.

Edited by Tornado
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It wouldn't matter. Barring the two Tails games and Sonic 1 8-bit, none of the Game Gear games can actually be canon; and even if they could they would all have to come after Sonic and Knuckles anyways.

Yet you find it difficult to believe that Sonic CD after Sonic & Knuckles is as equally likely as Sonic CD before Sonic 2?

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Yet you find it difficult to believe that Sonic CD after Sonic & Knuckles is as equally likely as Sonic CD before Sonic 2?

Yes, because the circumstances are completely different with the 8-bit Sonic games. So your whole "way to double standard" soapbox doesn't apply.

Edited by Tornado
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I'm just going to cut this short since I don't want to go into another pointless arguement, since I don't want to argue with anyone for not wanting to count certain games as canon. I'm just going to ask that you don't discredit anyone else's arguement using a broader range of games just because you don't accept those games as "canon," "relevant," etc.

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I'm not so sure now that you get hurt if you touch Metal Sonic when he isn't doing one of his attacks. Perhaps I should check and see?

No such moments exist in Sonic CD aside from when he's kidnapping Amy and at the start of the race. During the actual race, he's either catching up to you, where he has his yellow shield on, or he's in front of you, where he has his electrified barrier on. The only game where he's not attacking where you can actually hit him is Sonic and Tails 2/Triple Trouble.

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No such moments exist in Sonic CD aside from when he's kidnapping Amy and at the start of the race. During the actual race, he's either catching up to you, where he has his yellow shield on, or he's in front of you, where he has his electrified barrier on.

No, there's plenty of times when he's just hovering along. And there's no collision unless he's attacking; touching him won't hurt you, and you can't hurt him.
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I'm just going to ask that you don't discredit anyone else's arguement using a broader range of games just because you don't accept those games as "canon," "relevant," etc.

Then I'm going to ask that you stop confusing objective reasoning with subjective reasoning. I have worked very hard to keep my responses in this thread as factual as possible, and quite frankly I find it insulting that you are continuing to toe the line that I'm making this shit up as I go along and calling things inaccurate only as it suits me.

I suggest you actually look up my reasoning for some of my statements before you throw around the idea that I'm discounting things just because I don't like them. I'm not saying stuff like "the continuity of Chaotix itself is also rather iffy," "the events of Sonic the Fighters mean absolutely nothing," "none of the Game Gear games can actually be canon" and "they would all have to come after Sonic and Knuckles anyways" simply because it supports whatever cause I'm trying to shill. I'm saying it because, at least from what I've been able to find, it is the truth.

That being said, if you are finding factual error in my statements, feel free to point them out so I can revise them; but don't stand there and say that I'm intentionally wrecking people's theories only because they are against mine; especially not when I have admitted (and explained the reasoning behind) why my theory also has problems.

I'm not so sure now that you get hurt if you touch Metal Sonic when he isn't doing one of his attacks. Perhaps I should check and see?

I was playing Sonic CD yesterday. You don't.

Edited by Tornado
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No, there's plenty of times when he's just hovering along. And there's no collision unless he's attacking; touching him won't hurt you, and you can't hurt him.

Well I'll take your word for it since I haven't played Sonic CD in awhile.

Then I'm going to ask that you stop confusing objective reasoning with subjective reasoning. I have worked very hard to keep my responses in this thread as factual as possible, and quite frankly I find it insulting that you are continuing to toe the line that I'm making this shit up as I go along and calling things inaccurate only as it suits me.

I suggest you actually look up my reasoning for some of my statements before you throw around the idea that I'm discounting things just because I don't like them. I'm not saying stuff like "the continuity of Chaotix itself is also rather iffy," "the events of Sonic the Fighters mean absolutely nothing," "none of the Game Gear games can actually be canon" and "they would all have to come after Sonic and Knuckles anyways" simply because it supports whatever cause I'm trying to shill. I'm saying it because, at least from what I've been able to find, it is the truth.

That being said, if you are finding factual error in my statements, feel free to point them out so I can revise them; but don't stand there and say that I'm intentionally wrecking people's theories only because they are against mine; especially not when I have admitted (and explained the reasoning behind) why my theory also has problems.

I'm not questioning anything that I find "factually" correct. If it's "fact" then I wouldn't have anything to say to begin with. In fact I've made it clear this entire time that if I were factually incorrect or seeing a "fact" as incorrect that no one hesitate to jump in and correct me. However as far as I can remember I haven't seen anything from either you or psikeout to even convince me that Sonic CD MUST take take before Sonic 2, or even that it makes more sense to. It's not that they're factually incorrect. I'm just not seeing anything that can't be argued against. Okay, Amy isn't in Sonic 2. That's fact. Can't argue that. Tails is not in Sonic CD aside from that cameo pic. That's fact too. I'm not seeing how either of those 2 not appearing in the other game suggests that one must have taken place before the other. That's neither fact nor nondebateable. If I've done any such thing then please point that out and I will apologize for my ignorance.

Oh yeah, and also:

I'm not saying stuff like "the events of Sonic the Fighters mean absolutely nothing,"

I'm pretty sure the events of Sonic the Fighters mean absolutely nothing in the grand scheme of things.

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However as far as I can remember I haven't seen anything from either you or psikeout to even convince me that Sonic CD MUST take take before Sonic 2,
Probably because no one's saying that.

or even that it makes more sense to.
1. CD was being developed in parallel with Sonic 2. They are both, essentially, sequels to Sonic 1. Considering that, in the absence of hard evidence to the contrary, games are considered to occur in the order they are released, it makes more sense to place CD near Sonics 1 and 2 than after S3&K.

2. Considering several factors (character personality, their role in the series, their general usage), it is more believable for Amy to not appear in a game with no stated explanation than for Tails to not appear in a game with no stated explanation. Therefore, if forced to make a decision, it makes more sense to place CD before Sonic 2 to explain Tails' absence than to place CD after S3&K to explain Amy's absence.

I haven't seen your response to the first point (and my apologies if I've simply missed it), and I still don't think you grasp the thrust of the latter.

Oh yeah, and also:
It helps if you read the whole sentence:
I'm not saying stuff like ... "the events of Sonic the Fighters mean absolutely nothing," ... simply because it supports whatever cause I'm trying to shill.
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Probably because no one's saying that.

1. CD was being developed in parallel with Sonic 2. They are both, essentially, sequels to Sonic 1. Considering that, in the absence of hard evidence to the contrary, games are considered to occur in the order they are released, it makes more sense to place CD near Sonics 1 and 2 than after S3&K.

2. Considering several factors (character personality, their role in the series, their general usage), it is more believable for Amy to not appear in a game with no stated explanation than for Tails to not appear in a game with no stated explanation. Therefore, if forced to make a decision, it makes more sense to place CD before Sonic 2 to explain Tails' absence than to place CD after S3&K to explain Amy's absence.

The first arguement is a bit hypocritical in that it's trying to base itself in the logic that games happen in the order they're released, yet it ignores the fact that, despite being developed simaltaneously, Sonic 2 still came out before Sonic CD. It sounds more like a comfort issue the one making the arguement has with wanting the games to stay in the order that they're released in rather than a reason why Sonic CD must take place before Sonic 2. They've bent the rules enough that you can ignore the release date order line enough to place a game in one spot, but fail to realize that that rule can be bent more to favor other games, without contradicting evidence in how they must be ordered, to order themselves in another way. Given that the release date order rule has to be ignored in order for Sonic 3 to come after Sonic 2, Sonic Battle to come after Shadow the Hedgehog, etc., I never saw it as a reason why a game has to take place before or after another one.

I'm sorry I never addressed that point directly, as I think when I responded to psikeout's last post I was only counter arguing his individual points. I think the reason why I never directly responded was that I partially agree with the point. In general if you don't have a reason to place a game before or after another in your timeline, just leave it in the timeline based on when it was released in relation to the other games. However it should never be a governing reason why a game can't be before or after another game, otherwise the media industry could not make prequels or side stories. So I don't hold it against anyone if they want Tails Sky Patrol to happen after or even during the events of Sonic CD, for example, even though their release windows are so far apart.

And I believe I already addressed how I don't buy into people's opinions on how important a character is in relation to whether we should care if they appear in the game or not. If Tails was so important, he would have been in Sonic Labyrinth, he would have been in Sonic and the Secret Rings and not Ali Baba. Any bias reasoning that can be made to lower or raise the importance of a character or characters can be equally done to any other character to the same effect. And in the end it's only one's opinion, not an actual fact.

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I can't help but feel like that there being little reason to believe that these games were intended to go in any particular order is kind of getting glossed over. I can understand putting them in order for fun, but fun usually doesn't result in several page long arguments. Keep in mind, Oshima and Naka had a lot of creative disagreements when it came to Sonic.

I guess what it really hinges on is whether you believe that Tails being in Sonic CD constitutes a real appearance or not. He was there and he was flying the Tornado, meaning he had met Sonic.

Or try this on for size: The Little Planet appears one month out of every year. Is it possible that the various characters arrived at the Little Planet at different times during different appearances of the planet? Is it possible that Sonic CD doesn't have a concrete position in the timeline because the Little Planet itself messes with time?

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Or try this on for size: The Little Planet appears one month out of every year.

Did that still apply with the whole "Eggman chained it to a rock" thing? Just curious.

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I can't help but feel like that there being little reason to believe that these games were intended to go in any particular order is kind of getting glossed over. I can understand putting them in order for fun, but fun usually doesn't result in several page long arguments. Keep in mind, Oshima and Naka had a lot of creative disagreements when it came to Sonic.

I guess what it really hinges on is whether you believe that Tails being in Sonic CD constitutes a real appearance or not. He was there and he was flying the Tornado, meaning he had met Sonic.

Or try this on for size: The Little Planet appears one month out of every year. Is it possible that the various characters arrived at the Little Planet at different times during different appearances of the planet? Is it possible that Sonic CD doesn't have a concrete position in the timeline because the Little Planet itself messes with time?

It indeed is correct that there is no particular order, at least until Sega comes out and says so. However people will still argue over the "canon" and the "timeline" because they're geeks. I don't think anyone who made an arguement here can deny they're a geek. I think the first few minutes of the Game Overthinker's latest video addresses this well. -> http://www.screwattack.com/TGO/Continum

And time travel should never be a reason to assess continuity between seperate entries. Otherwise someone could order the games however they want on the logic that for anything that doesn't make sense, time travel.

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Did that still apply with the whole "Eggman chained it to a rock" thing? Just curious.

That might actually make it even more easily accessible.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Personally, from reading the translated Japanese manuals of sonic 1, 2 and CD i think that CD came before even Sonic 1.

The reasoning for this theory is that in Sonic CD Eggman uses plant seeds (as shown once you destroy one of his robots) but in Sonic 1 he uses the animals and says to Sonic something along the lines of "I've turned all the animals on the island into robots!".

So in my opinion Sonic met Amy before Tails.

Edited by MattiFS
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Personally, from reading the translated Japanese manuals of sonic 1, 2 and CD i think that CD came before even Sonic 1.

The reasoning for this theory is that in Sonic CD Eggman uses plant seeds (as shown once you destroy one of his robots) but in Sonic 1 he uses the animals and says to Sonic something along the lines of "I've turned all the animals on the island into robots!".

So in my opinion Sonic met Amy before Tails.

Interesting theory. Although if the modern games are anything to go by, Eggman isn't consistent in turning animals into a robot army as to just make a robot army period, regardless of what's inside.

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