Tails' next playable appearence

[Blacklightning]

Then use them in a context that does make sense. Surely it's not that difficult to understand. You could easily get off by dropping them on the ground and waiting for some unsuspecting sod to set it off than throwing the sodding huge things at people. Hell, in the advent of a decent multiplayer mode I can imagine it being quite a nasty prank to pull.

EDIT: And just for the record I'd like to state that I fucking LOVE Tails Adventure and wouldn't mind one or both of them. =D

Edited November 8, 2009 by Blacklightning

[Saint Nathan]

I love the Sonic X in a topic about Tails' next PLAYABLE appearance. As in the games. As in not Sonic X. As in the games Tails that never met Cosmo and where Cosmo doesn't exist.

Anyways, I don't care if he's a Sonic clone of if he's playable in the tornado minigames that is one long QTE again. I just want my Tailsy.

[Flyboy Fox]

My problem with the ring bombs is that they are shaped to look exactly like rings, which seems kinda... counter-productive, to say the least? O.o Sonic and co collect rings far more than (most) of their enemies do, and the main point of a bomb shaped to look like a ring would presumably be to trick the target into attempting to collect it, no? An epic practical joke, perhaps. A useful weapon against Eggman's robots or most other foes, not really.

[Chooch]

...what's wrong with Ring Bombs?

Granted, making it the only way of attacking in Sonic '06 was a royally fucking stupid move, but that doesn't make the Ring Bombs themselves inherently bad, just mis-handled. I can easily imagine them getting some decent use without screwing up the main gameplay, like as a proximity bomb instead of a throwable one that just plain explodes instead of scattering fake, damaging rings that look completely identical to actual ones (isn't it enough that the ring box itself is indistinguishable from real ones?). In fact, this whole mentality of "bawwwwwwwwwwww bawwwwwwwwwww sonic team fucked it up before now they can't use it again" that I see all too commonly around here, frankly, is just plain retarded for the most part. Though that might be a story for a different thread... hmmm...

Even if they handled them 'well' I still wouldn't really like them. I don't think it really fits the characters that have been given the ability all that well. And yes, despite you thinking that mentality is 'retarded' it really doesn't help that each time that dummy ring bombs have been implemented they made the gameplay for said character shitty beyond belief.

If they really want to give a character like Tails attacks that distinguish him from the rest of the cast then take a cue from Sonic Battle or something! I loved Tails' wacky assortment of gadgets he used both in his basic combos and special moves in that game and it'd be awesome if they returned. Certainly anything in Battle is better than the awful ring bombs.

I'd really like to see a major change in Tails primary gameplay and the developers really touch on his genius a bit more. Let him use an assortment of gadgets that he made himself to fend off foes along with his flight capabilities. That'd make for some more interesting gameplay than 'run/fly around mashing on the action button to throw out dummy rings'.

Edited November 8, 2009 by Chooch

[Phos]

The fake ring bombs were strange, it seemed as though the game would let you collect the rings as normal if you used the bomb to blow up a crate. That, or the crates had rings in them for some reason.

[Blacklightning]

My problem with the ring bombs is that they are shaped to look exactly like rings, which seems kinda... counter-productive, to say the least? O.o Sonic and co collect rings far more than (most) of their enemies do, and the main point of a bomb shaped to look like a ring would presumably be to trick the target into attempting to collect it, no? An epic practical joke, perhaps. A useful weapon against Eggman's robots or most other foes, not really.

The main advantage it has is that it isn't interpreted as a threat, not so much that it is universally interpreted as beneficial to the enemy (even though that can easily be possible, circumstances pending). If you were to plonk down some ordinary landmine there's the chance that someone will still see it and know to avoid it - a ring bomb, player or badnik, will not be seen as harmful until it actually explodes, so active evasion is much less likely to happen. And even if it does, you could just use it as a zoning measure to limit the options of enemies. Think outside the box mang.

And yes, despite you thinking that mentality is 'retarded' it really doesn't help that each time that dummy ring bombs have been implemented they made the gameplay for said character shitty beyond belief.

Still easily fixable. The only real problem is that in at least once instance each time, the ring bombs were Tails' only attack - simple solution? Don't make it Tails' only attack. I know, it's pure genius, isn't it?

[Flyboy Fox]

I can see ring bombs perhaps being useful in multiplayer against another real person, then. But against an AI enemy like a bot it seems kinda silly. Them 'not knowing' would just be a painfully trite illusion. Artificial stupidity, if you like, rather than artificial intelligence. I can't see what would be fun about that kind of gameplay.

[Chooch]

Still easily fixable. The only real problem is that in at least once instance each time, the ring bombs were Tails' only attack - simple solution? Don't make it Tails' only attack. I know, it's pure genius, isn't it?

That's perfectly fine. And it's also the basic point that I was trying to get across. Give him a variety of things that he can use rather than just DUMMYRINGSDUMMYRINGSDUMMYRINGS and more DUMMYRINGS. It made his gameplay shitty, repetitive, and annoying to play.

Keep his speed, keep his flight capabilities and give him more ways to dispatch enemies. That's all I really ask.

[Frozen Nitrogen]

If they really want to give a character like Tails attacks that distinguish him from the rest of the cast then take a cue from Sonic Battle or something! I loved Tails' wacky assortment of gadgets he used both in his basic combos and special moves in that game and it'd be awesome if they returned. Certainly anything in Battle is better than the awful ring bombs.

(Psst! Sonic Battle used Ring Bombs, you know. They were Sonic's "Trap" move. They weren't in a monitor, but they were rings that blew up.)

Am I the only one who disliked Tails' Battle "Pull a plasma cannon out of thin air" gadgetry? Call me a man warped by Fleetway, but as far as I'm concerned Tails is a super-speedy mutant vulpine who spin-dashed his way through armies of kill-bots without needing any gimmicky mechanisms back in the good old days. Tails needs guns about as much as the Ultimate Lifeform needs them.

Didn't you people learn anything from Shadow's game?

[Flyboy Fox]

While it might be a lesser popular option, I actually agree. Tails' reliance on gadgetry is definitely an invention of more recent history. Tails doesn't need plasma cannons or weapons of that calibre. He's got two huge mo'fo'ing tails, for gawsh's sake X3

[Lightspeed Jack]

I would rather Sonic team spent as much time as possible perfecting Sonic gameplay than tack on Tails gameplay.

[azoo]

While it might be a lesser popular option, I actually agree. Tails' reliance on gadgetry is definitely an invention of more recent history. Tails doesn't need plasma cannons or weapons of that calibre. He's got two huge mo'fo'ing tails, for gawsh's sake X3

QFT. Tails doesn't need all this stupid machinery crap. Tails has everything Sonic has, except he's (only barely) slower and has helicopter blades for a butt. That's all he really needs~ =3

[Blacklightning]

Would we all be happy if we just threw both in there and let the players choose what they're comfortable with? Clearly there's not going to be any real concession or balance agreement in the foreseeable future of this thread, so the only real option I can see is to do a bit of both gadgets and... umm, tail work, and if they don't feel the need to use one or the other, fine. But like it or not Tails does have a history of mechanic and gadget work in the series hailing all the way back to Sonic 2 just as much as he's earned the colours of a classic Sonic jump n' run with an ass copter and tail swipe in between - I feel it'd be wrong to deny one or the other when both have large audiences and distinct appeals.

[Guest]

I would rather Sonic team spent as much time as possible perfecting Sonic gameplay than tack on Tails gameplay.

Unleashed.

Now lets see some more characters, NOT alternate forms of Sonic.

[Flyboy Fox]

Oh, I don't by any means feel the need to take away the tech-genius nerd aspect of Tails' character. I actually quite like it :3 But I can't bear for him to be reliant on technology and gadgets. Personally, I'd prefer the tech aspect to be story relevant but not necessary in-game while actively playing. And I'd prefer him to interact with the in-game environment if he DOES use gadgets (e.g. hacking gates to open them, or using robot remains as projectiles etc) rather than entering the stages with a pre-set external arsenal.

[Blacklightning]

Oh, I don't by any means feel the need to take away the tech-genius nerd aspect of Tails' character. I actually quite like it :3 But I can't bear for him to be reliant on technology and gadgets. Personally, I'd prefer the tech aspect to be story relevant but not necessary in-game while actively playing. And I'd prefer him to interact with the in-game environment if he DOES use gadgets (e.g. hacking gates to open them, or using robot remains as projectiles etc) rather than entering the stages with a pre-set external arsenal.

Fair enough, I guess, but fake rings aside I'd like to see an ingame gadget or two for once, even if his gameplay style isn't heavily reliant on them. To be honest I don't really expect anything extremely indepth as far as his techy side goes (I know I babble about on occasion about the concept of a tech-heavy Tails game, but Tails Adventure aside I'm aware it's a fairly unrealistic concept these days), but I just find it a tad disappointing that we never get to use any of that cool tech he uses in cutscenes and such. If it's simple or comical like his extendable boxing glove in Sonic Battle or the cartoonish bombs in Tails Adventure, even if his gameplay doesn't exactly revovle around it, hell, that's fine by me.

"interacting with the in-game environment" kinda got me thinking about Tails going all Magyver on a setpiece and building bridges and ladders out of wall panels or something. That sounds unexpectedly awesome in its own kind of way. *shot*

[Flyboy Fox]

"interacting with the in-game environment" kinda got me thinking about Tails going all Magyver on a setpiece and building bridges and ladders out of wall panels or something. That sounds unexpectedly awesome in its own kind of way. *shot*

Neither of which he'd personally need, as he can fly... but I guess there might be other uses for various platforms and architectural improvisations.

It'd be kinda cool on an indoor/base type stage if he was able to hack into control panels on the walls to temporarily redirect the robots. Be good for some strategy puzzles too.

[Badnik Zero]

^ Yes, you guys! It's hard to explain, but Tails' puzzle sections would pretty much set the level up in speed mode. Basically, whatever parts of the level were "incomplete" would require the player to tailor them with Tails' special skills. Then whatever you just did would set Tails up to run the obstacle course you just put together. In later levels, if you got the tinkering wrong it would lead to disaster for Tails. Kind of like a simpler Rube-Goldberg machine, but would that even be fun or very Tails at all? I like the idea of him tinkering with his environment.

Edited November 9, 2009 by Stretchy Werewolf

[Flyboy Fox]

Hmm, setting up the level beforehand, in a way? Perhaps not good as an ongoing gimmick, but for one or two stages, having brief access to the controls outside the area (like, a 2:00 minute countdown) to set gates and flip traps and plan a route etc would be pretty interesting. If you messed up with the hacking part, you'd end up making the stage harder or even impossible. I like it!

It would give him a gadget-y aspect, while then relying on his physical strength and dexterity to actually navigate the level itself.

[Frozen Nitrogen]

^ Yes, you guys! It's hard to explain, but Tails' puzzle sections would pretty much set the level up in speed mode. Basically, whatever parts of the level were "incomplete" would require the player to tailor them with Tails' special skills. Then whatever you just did would set Tails up to run the obstacle course you just put together. In later levels, if you got the tinkering wrong it would lead to disaster for Tails. Kind of like a simpler Rube-Goldberg machine, but would that even be fun or very Tails at all? I like the idea of him tinkering with his environment.

I have no desire to see Tails' gameplay turned into "Sim Motorway".

Make his levels a bit puzzle-y, Tails Adventures style - if you must - but he worked fine and dandy as a flying Sonic sprite swap in S3&K, and thats how I likes him.

[Badnik Zero]

^ Aww. That's what it is, a puzzle! He wouldn't really be assembling the level, for the most part. I like Tails to play like Sonic in regular games, but I guess I was thinking of more of a spinoff. If he got his own game he'd need some defining mechanics. Even in a main game, he should have something extra to keep him from being too vanilla.

[Flyboy Fox]

I think it'd be cool if, at the beginning of a certain stage, you were given 60 seconds or something to look at a map/floor-plan and change as many door switches from red to green as you felt necessary. With the catch being that for every door you unlocked, the door it was paired with would lock.

I think puzzles like that would drive a lot of people insane, but heck, I like them ):

[Blazey Firekitty]

I'd welcome any puzzles that require you to search find clues in some fashion(Like the one Flyboy just described). Just not ones that require you to just stumble upon the solution by a twist of fate(Carnival Night Zone Barrel, I'm looking at you).

[Rusty Spy]

Oh, I don't by any means feel the need to take away the tech-genius nerd aspect of Tails' character. I actually quite like it :3 But I can't bear for him to be reliant on technology and gadgets. Personally, I'd prefer the tech aspect to be story relevant but not necessary in-game while actively playing. And I'd prefer him to interact with the in-game environment if he DOES use gadgets (e.g. hacking gates to open them, or using robot remains as projectiles etc) rather than entering the stages with a pre-set external arsenal.

That's why like the idea of having gadgets(and other assorted abilities) as temporary power ups, sort of like the different mushrooms in Mario Galaxy, only more so that they could be used throughout the level rather than in short spurts.

[Flyboy Fox]

I suppose that wouldn't infringe on his non-tech abilities too much if the game were set up in a way that would give the player ample areas in which to use either/both. Either by making areas able to be cleared in multiple ways, or by having certain areas that require gadgets and certain areas where gadgets are useless and simple man-power (fox-power?) is needed to get through.