Playable Eggman: Style Preferences

[Dr. Mechano]

Every now and then, Eggman is playable in a story-driven adventure (And quite often in racing/sports/etc. spinoffs too). But one thing that sticks out to me is that, unlike most playable characters, pretty much every time Eggman is playable, he plays entirely differently.

Sonic Adventure 2: Eggman uses the Egg Walker to blast his way through levels.

Sonic Advance 3: Eggman flies around in the Eggmobile and charges up to assist Super Sonic.

Sonic Chronicles: Eggman runs around throwing an infinite supply of giant wrenches at his enemies, making him a memetic badass in this incarnation.

My question is, even though Eggman's playability in story-driven games is rare, would you like him to develop a "regular" style for the few times he is playable in this capacity? In a sense, Eggman as the "wild card" of playable characters in this series does make some bit of sense, because even as an antagonist he rarely used the same machine twice, and is constantly changing his fighting style.

However, if there was an attempt to streamline a more "normative" playable Eggman, I'd go for a less bulky SA2 style. Make him a little faster and a little more agile, but still keep the basic shooting stage controls, I'd say!

Note: This is not a topic for people who think Eggman shouldn't be playable at all to diss the very concept of Eggman's playability. Rather, it's discussing how he should be handled when he is playable; So kindly keep your naysaying to a comfortable minimum, please.

[psikeout]

I think it's in Eggman's style to always have something different. He really is a wildcard kind of character—An overgrown kid at heart who always has a new toy to try out. That being said, what I'd like to see in a new game would be Eggman in his classic Egg Mobile, but with various selectable weapons, and add-on parts that he could either find or improvise in different levels to overcome obstacles, enemies, etc.

There's a lot of room for a lot of varied gameplay with Eggman, but I'm not sure Sega will ever find the budget for it, thinking realistically. His SA2 appearance was a rehash of Gamma in pretty much every way. They're not going to go out of their way to develop something new for a character that doesn't have much mass market appeal. They'll just make a new hedgehog or something.

Edited November 6, 2009 by psikeout

[Phos]

Is playing as Eggman really appealing to the average player? It seems counterproductive to making a Sonic game.

It also seems like Anything you could do with eggman could be done better with an unrelated IP, esspecially considering that it's tough to have him successful when he's the overall villain.

[Dr. Mechano]

Is playing as Eggman really appealing to the average player? It seems counterproductive to making a Sonic game.

It also seems like Anything you could do with eggman could be done better with an unrelated IP, esspecially considering that it's tough to have him successful when he's the overall villain.

If they're going to use another antagonist anyway, they might as well give Eggman playability from time to time- It's better than being a nonplayable secondary villain in my opinion, as it makes his role more important in the overall plot.

As for him being succesful, taking down another villain is a good way to have Eggman win without having the good guys lose. Win-win.

Main villain status is good. Playable status is good. "Side-villain" status is... not as good as the former two options, I think. I'm okay with it, but I'd rather have either of the first two.

Either way, though, the topic's less about your thoughts on the validity of his playability and more on how it should be handled.

Edited November 6, 2009 by Dr. Mechano

[Cortez]

I still think every character should have the same core gameplay with some changes made to differentiate each character, though nothing too drastic like most Sonic fans seem to think they want. S3K, Mario 64 DS and Sonic Advance 1 and 2 did this perfectly (as did Sonic, Tails and Knuckles in SA1) whereas SA2, Unleashed and STH06 got it oh so wrong. Using that logic I think Eggman should play like a bulky Sonic (ala Wario in 64DS), minus the crazy athletic moves (Homing attack, spin dash ect.) with Eggman style replacements.

[Diogenes]

Is playing as Eggman really appealing to the average player?

Everyone wants to be the villain sometimes. Everyone loves playing as Bowser the few times its an option...

Anyway, I don't expect Eggman to be playable often enough to warrant a set style. It's better to leave him flexible and adapt his gameplay to the situation rather than lock into a mindset that might not fit.

[JezMM]

Simplified version of BK Nuts and Bolts please. I'd love to be able to hover about in the egg mobile, with collectable/buildable/unlockable parts such as jet boosters for flying, the classic wrecking ball for attacking, or unique items like the bubble machine from Sonic CD's Tidal Tempest or the electric field from Sonic 2's Casino Night, for use in puzzley areas or alternative routes upon replaying stages.

The basic aiming system for weapons could be like SA2, with a few unlockable weapons with unique ranges and attacks as well.

If an Eggman spin-off would ever made (very unlikely), a third person shooter with simple and comical weapons would be nice gameplay to allow you to hop out of the Eggmobile and explore areas deeper, though in a normal game with lots of characters, I'd rather Shadow keeps gunplay to himself as his own gimmick.

Whatever gameplay he has, it should allow the player to truly get into the Doctor's mind, which is why I think vehicles, crazy contraptions, and puzzles that must be solved with both iniative and intelligent thinking would be best for ole' Eggy.

Edited November 6, 2009 by JezMM

[Greg the Fancat]

Is playing as Eggman really appealing to the average player? It seems counterproductive to making a Sonic game.

It also seems like Anything you could do with eggman could be done better with an unrelated IP, esspecially considering that it's tough to have him successful when he's the overall villain.

I'll be honest with you right now. In no way is it counterproductive. In fact, it builds upon the relationship between the player and the bad guy, because instead of knowing your hero inside from out and looking up to him, some of us want to know what a bad guy feels and how he goes about with the obstacles to send in the hero's way.

With that said, I want a common game play style where he plays very similarly to Banjo Kazooie: Nuts and Bolts. Equal oppertunities to go on foot into secret laboratories stealing valuable data and materials from GUN, while the other half would have him flying location to location while sending detours to the heroes' ways would so kick ass.

[Blazey Firekitty]

I always figured I'd want a customizable Egg mobile if Eggman were playable again. You know, to get the thrill of basically playing as the Mega Drive/Genesis bosses.^^

[Scarlet2106]

I'm on the customisable eggmobile boat. Customisable weapons, travel methods, increase in ability to upgrade over the course of the game (somewhat like Emerl).

The guy's supposed to be an engineering genius, make use of that.

[Frozen Nitrogen]

One of the few things that irked me about Eggman in Chronicles was his flouncing around walking and his professing how fun it was to go running and jumping and adventuring all over the place (potentially a lie to lull them into a false sense of security fot the eventual glorious backstab, but still). We should not forget that he is a morbidly obese blob who drives everywhere in a floating car because he's too much of a fatass to walk anywhere on his own. Sure, he can put on bursts of speed now and again as his spindly legs propel him towards his next mecha, but I doubt he's happy about those situations where bolting is an unfortunate necessity.

In conclusion, no Robotnik outside the Egg-O-Matic, plz. I really enjoyed the third-person-shooter-esque missile-spamming gameplay of SA2, and would welcome the return of something in that grain.

[azoo]

A way to not make it "counterproductive" is to make it where he's an unlockable for when you beat the game. =P

And I say make Eggman's gameplay like Banjo-Kazooie: Nuts and Bolts. In other words, you might spend some time outside of your machine, but the overall majority of the time you'll spend your time in the Eggmobile (from S1) adding new machinery parts to it. So, basically, yes. The same thing as N&B, except that it'd be more oriented with smashing and blowing up stuff.

A good way to make a story for Eggman would be this (as an example):

Back when Eggman went through several different "Metal Sonic" designs, he created a fully identical-looking Sonic and put them in mass production (hey, he can do it to Shadow, why not to Sonic?). Since Eggman thought it took the "Metal" part out of the name, he decided to take those robots and put them in the storage department in his fortress. Well, somehow SA-55 accidentally turned on the switch to wake them all up, and now there are robot Sonics out there on the loose! Unknowing of this, Eggman has just got in his Eggmobile and is searching all across South Island for Sonic. The only problem is, thanks to the Sonic-lookalike robots on the loose, he can't tell which one is the real Sonic! So, Eggman decides, "If I can't find the real Sonic out of all of these, then I'll just DESTROY THEM ALL!" So, the story begins where Eggman goes off killing robot Sonics in attempt to find the real one (which ironically won't happen).

[Badnik Zero]

Eggman plays differently because everything you mentioned is a different type of game, Mechano. One 3D platformer, one 2D super-fight, and one RPG. I think we're forgetting about one playable appearance in Sonic R. IMO, that was Eggman's all time high in terms of maneuverability and interaction with his environment. If he's gonna be playable again, I'd like him to return in a plain Eggmobile, with mostly hover and hop gameplay and some heavy weapons without emphasis on shooting. I thought the roll-n-shoot gimmick was okay with Gamma, but they took it too far in SA2. Maybe for boss fights he sets the Eggmobile down in one of his latest contraptions, and you get to take him to his most dangerous potentials. It would be hard getting controls to match up between Egg-machines, but you could work it.

[slam422]

I'm also going to be joining the whole "BK:N&B" play style bandwaggon. The idea of making a fully customized Egg Mobile with various parts that you either aquire throughout the game or create yourself from various items & components and then use that customized machine to complete various missions in order to advance the gameplay & story.

[Indigo Rush]

I had once designed a more advanced and versatile Egg-Walker many months ago. Eggman could walk around and shoot baddies SA2 style, complete with the hovering and vulcan-cannon awesomness, but here's the twist: He could use the homing attack, and the cockpit was completely spherical. You could "crouch" into ball-mode, tucking in the legs and sending Eggman for a wild ride. This gives him that necessary "spinball mechanic" that Sonic games are known for. The machine would be designed to keep the control center stationary while rolling though, so Eggy wouldn't get vertigo.

I'll have to doodle this again sometime soon. I really like the concept.

[Dr. Mechano]

We should not forget that he is a morbidly obese blob who drives everywhere in a floating car because he's too much of a fatass to walk anywhere on his own.

Wario built an entire career on being an improbably acrobatic fat man.

I agree Eggman should stick with machines, because he's a genius. Not because fat people can't be active, though; Because in the whimsical world of fiction, they can run and jump with the best of 'em.

[Phos]

I'll be honest with you right now. In no way is it counterproductive. In fact, it builds upon the relationship between the player and the bad guy, because instead of knowing your hero inside from out and looking up to him, some of us want to know what a bad guy feels and how he goes about with the obstacles to send in the hero's way.

What I'm getting at is that players who actually care, or at leaste care enough to want to bother playing as him, are very much in the minority.

Indigo Dude: reminds me of the Ballistic from Metal Warriors.

[Solid SOAP]

Sonic Adventure 2 Robotnik with a little Nuts & Bolts thrown in. The story is set-up so the main hub of the game is your base, in which you can customize your Egg-o-Matic anyway you please, and there are 15 or so action stages (Plus bonus levels, secret stages, etc perhaps) in which you "take over" different parts of the world. Your Egg-o-Matic starts out as a basic flying vehicle, slow with no weapons. You can add lots of different things to it that you can find in each stage, such as walking legs, missles, and other weapons. It'd be like Sonic Adventure 2 with some small N&B elements to it, and I think it'd work.

[Dr. Mechano]

Egg-O-Matic

Egg-o-Matic

Yes, the Egg Mobile is quite cool. [/NITPICKING]

Actually, on topic, I think the super duper customizable weapons sounds like a fun idea. I think a nice mix of nostalgic weapons (Egg Hammer Ball, Eggman Drill, etc.) plus some new stuff would be a really cool thing. Indeed.

[Solid SOAP]

In my game, there would mainly be newer things that would make for fun gameplay, but I would definitely make it so you could easily remake classic Robotnik contraptions if you found like, super secret parts or something.

[SchemingMinor]

Is playing as Eggman really appealing to the average player? It seems counterproductive to making a Sonic game.

It also seems like Anything you could do with eggman could be done better with an unrelated IP, esspecially considering that it's tough to have him successful when he's the overall villain.

Let me rephrase this sentence with another famous villain turned playable and see if it makes just as much sense:

Is playing as Wario really appealing to the average player? It seems counterproductive to making a Mario Land game.

It also seems like Anything you could do with Wario could be done better with an unrelated IP, esspecially considering that it's tough to have him successful when he's the overall villain.

See? What do you know won't work if you do not give it a chance? Wario is aimed towards older players, and Robotnik's fanbase is usually geared towards the same demographic.

Personally, I think Robotnik should branch out to his own series, befitting to his rebellious nature. Needless to say the problems arise when you take into context the lovely "success" (read: SARCASM)that their previous spinoff; Shadow the Hedgehog was. If done properly, Robotnik could be the next Wario when it comes to successful game spinoff franchises due to his charisma, multitude of adaptability to different gameplay styles and characterization that can hold its own.

And that lovely eccentricity of his that we have came to love.

Robotnik as a character should not be aimed towards audiences of small children but the older teenage crowd, young adults, and adults due to his popularity with that age demographic. But not in the sense where we go all brooding, doom and gloom and have the titular character swear like a sailor every five minutes when you die in order to make it seem mature, oh no, not to say that Robotnik can't hold a serious air to him (because he can), but if you wanted to hold a serious air to his flame just do the opposite of everything that Shadow the Hedgehog did.

Personally I think with Robotnik's high intelligence, there should be a sort of Zelda-esque type of game to his title for one style of gameplay. You know, free roaming, solving puzzles, using and building technology and tools to aid you, the works. And come to think of it, Robotnik does have a slew of enemies that he can fight against such as G.U.N. and the the Great Badoru Kukku for samplers ( beating up the monster of the week is mandatory for Eggman.) And why stop there? Why be serious? You can do what Paper Mario did and turn everything into one long satirical joke, breaking the fourth wall, using in-game gags and the like, which does seem befitting to Robotnik's bizarre fun nature.

In short, yes the man has carried a lot on his back in his 18+ years and I think a game isn't going to be too heavy of a weight for him to carry.

[Phos]

You really think of Robotnik's role as comparable to that of Wario's?

[Dr. Mechano]

You really think of Robotnik's role as comparable to that of Wario's?

You know, Phos, you could actually make arguments against the points you disagree with instead of just dryly stating that you disagree with them.

Of course she really thinks that, as she explained in great detail. Granted, I realize your question wasn't a question so much as a rhetorical "I'm insinuating that you're obviously wrong" sort of thing. You're free to disagree, as debate is the source of much discussion, but I expect said disagreement to be well thought out and defended, and not patronizing "Oh, you're so wrong" comments like these.

[Phos]

The point is that Kintobor is making a faulty comparison. Wario has barely any effect on Mario, isn't a reoccurring antagonist, and doesn't have an army. I'm sure you know all of this, though.

[Dr. Mechano]

and doesn't have an army.

But he did.

In Super Mario Land 2, he had quite a literal army, including six boss underlings that worked for him. Wario also had an evil posse in Wario's Woods and Mario and Wario. Where this gang of ruffians disappeared to is anyone's guess, but he definitely had an army in every sense of the word.

That said, in all the times Eggman's been playable, his army was a nonfactor anyway.

Edited November 7, 2009 by Dr. Mechano