Could Tails and Eggman potentially be friends?

[Blazey Firekitty]

Figured I'd make this so as to prevent further topic derail.^_~

Mainly I'm basing this on the apparent mutual respect the two seem to have for each other in SA2(Well, by the end, anyway) and Chronicles.

[Indigo Rush]

I think so. If Eggman, you know, stops trying to take over the world and stuff.

There's also a nice little excerpt from Sonic X, where Eggman was firing missiles at Tails, and then asks to call them off. Seeing that he can't, he panics, saying to himself, "I wouldn't know how to live with myself, knowing that I killed Tails!" Or something along those lines.

[Dr. Mechano]

Game Eggman could potentially be friends with anyone if he was significantly less lethal, he's such a peppy and happy guy.

But I think they got along rather well in Chronicles, and there are hints of mutual respect in Sonic Adventure 2 as well, such as their shared friendly conversation during the ending.

In Sonic X, too, Eggman's kind and understanding advice to Tails, as he empathizes with him and expresses that he knows how difficult it is to shoot Cosmo (But must anyway to save the world), was another nice moment between them. Though X is a different continuity... So yeah.

I guess, in short, I can see them being friendly in their "off time" when Eggman's not trying to take over the world; But once a new idea for world conquest pops into the doctor's head, it's back to their fierce rivalry until his next defeat!

[Teoleulbogo]

Perhaps, but I'd rather think of them as aquantances who exchange witty banter or something. I mean I guesse in an alternate reality where Eggman wasn't as evil they could be friends, but the whole being on different sides thing kinda stops me from seeing Eggman and Tails sitting down for tea and talking about eachothers day...although that would be funny as hell.

-So what did you do today Tails?

-I had to save Sonic from a buch of robot frogs with laser vision.

-Oh yea I thought i had him that time, more suger Tails?

[Flyboy Fox]

Mutual respect? Yes, certainly. Ability to appreciate each other's positive qualities? Definitely. Friends? I'm not sure I'd go that far.

To me, 'friend' is a very affectionate word and a pretty powerful one, not to be given lightly.

Tails isn't given to hatred or even rage unless things or people very close to him are being immediately threatened, so it's only natural for him that he'd be fairly at ease being companionable with Eggman when they're not directly in conflict. I can definitely see them both finding a sort of pleasant common ground in which, given the right circumstances, they'd be at ease in each other's company and even have a positive exchange of ideas.

But given their history and their vastly different world views and ambitions, and given the pretty much set-in-stone nature of their being on opposite sides, I don't think I could see them ever being 'friends'.

[Tsukiko]

About the same chances of Rockman befriending Forte and Dr. Wily.

Edited November 11, 2009 by Tsukiko

[Blazey Firekitty]

I suppose the main obstacle to their being on friendly terms with each other would be the difference in their maturity. Tails, though physically young, is a scientist who views the world as a place to be respected and handled with care. While Eggman is a physical adult, he tends to have a rather immature view of the world, believing that , due to his scientific genius, the best path to utopia is an autocracy ruled by himself.

[Dr. Mechano]

Hm, I should add it depends on continuity too.

In the games, Eggman's more of a card carrying villain, albeit one with redeeming qualities. In Sonic X, anime and especially the comic, Eggman is far more affable and good-natured; In the case of the comics' Eggman, he's basically already in a friendly enemy relationship with Sonic, though sadly he and X's Tails barely ever interact. However, I could certainly see this iteration of them as friends too, given Sonic's and Eggman's relationship in this portrayal!

This is, granted, because both Sonic X series are much more idealistic than the game series. As for the continuities that are darker than the games, not a chance that this would ever happen.

[Flyboy Fox]

I think there's a big difference between 'friendly' and 'friends' though. I mean, I'm 'friendly' with most people at my work and college, but I wouldn't consider most of them to actively be my 'friends'. So I find it even less likely that two people whose default position is against each other and who have harmed or tried to harm each other numerous times could come to think of each other as friends, even if there is mutual respect and even a degree of sympathy and understanding there.

[Blazey Firekitty]

Hm, I should add it depends on continuity too.

In the games, Eggman's more of a card carrying villain, albeit one with redeeming qualities. In Sonic X, anime and especially the comic, Eggman is far more affable and good-natured; In the case of the comics' Eggman, he's basically already in a friendly enemy relationship with Sonic, though sadly he and X's Tails barely ever interact. However, I could certainly see this iteration of them as friends too, given Sonic's and Eggman's relationship in this portrayal!

This is, granted, because both Sonic X series are much more idealistic than the game series. As for the continuities that are darker than the games, not a chance that this would ever happen.

Given that X's Eggman is more likely to reform than the games, (And given, as you noted, Mechano, the moment with Tails during Cosmo's sacrifice) I could see X's Eggman playing sort of mentor role in Tails life, over time.

I think there's a big difference between 'friendly' and 'friends' though. I mean, I'm 'friendly' with most people at my work and college, but I wouldn't consider most of them to actively be my 'friends'. So I find it even less likely that two people whose default position is against each other and who have harmed or tried to harm each other numerous times could come to think of each other as friends, even if there is mutual respect and even a degree of sympathy and understanding there.

This scenario seems more realistic for the games. More of a pleasant acquaintance than anything.

Edited November 11, 2009 by BlazeyBakeneko

[Icecoldfrieza]

I can't see game Eggman and Tails ever becoming friends. In addition to kidnapping Tails in Game Gear Sonic 2, he tried to kill Sonic right in front of him in SA2. He later acted like Tails' friend, only to betray him at the end of Chronicles. I think any chance of a friendship between them has long since passed.

As for Sonic X, yes it definitely could have happened, especially in the comic.

[Saint Nathan]

This is Tails in Chronicles about Eggman.

"I don't trust you but you might as well help"

"I like how you build things"

"ROCKETSHHHIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIP"

so in about one/two chapters they go from mortal enemies to straight up friends that he trusts enough to LEAVE EGGMAN BEHIND ALONE ON EARTH WITH NO ONE TO STOP HIM.

They could be good friends, yeah.

[Dr. Mechano]

so in about one/two chapters they go from mortal enemies to straight up friends that he trusts enough to LEAVE EGGMAN BEHIND ALONE ON EARTH WITH NO ONE TO STOP HIM.

To be fair his base was in shambles and his robots were running amok beyond his control. They probably expected to be back a lot sooner than they actually were, and Eggman's reformation seemed passable at least.

Eggman had to singlehandedly rebuild his entire empire and mobilize it to take over, essentially from scratch. They probably weren't counting on the time delay giving him enough time to do all of that, even if they suspected his reformation was an act, which is debatable.

Plus, there were people on Earth to stop him. GUN, the Chaotix, etc. Looks like they didn't do a very good job though.

Edited November 11, 2009 by Dr. Mechano

[Flyboy Fox]

I think Tails just unfortunately got a bit of stardust in his eyes there. I mean, how often does he get to talk tech stuff with anyone without them yawning and rolling their eyes at him? I don't think that means they're BFFs now... just that Tails had a lapse of judgement and got carried away, forgetting that Eggman was more than likely to stab him in the back for it later (which he did x.x Doh!).

[DaBatGuy]

About the same chances of Rockman befriending Forte and Dr. Wily.

*ahem*

I like that the two have a mutual respect for each other as technological mavericks. If Tails had meet him first before befriending Sonic I could totally see him working with the doctor as his apprentice despite is mad schemes.

[Rusty Spy]

I'd say Tails and Eggman only hold respect for each others mechanical skills. Though when they do work together, Eggman seems to view Tails as an apprentice, based on their interactions in Chronicles. They seem to get along really well when they're not on opposing sides, again in Chronicles Tails warmed up to Eggman faster than any of the others.

[Badnik Zero]

I agree that Tails could talk to Eggman about things he couldn't discuss with Sonic (too boring for Sonic). I enjoyed that dynamic in Chronicles and never scolded Tails for mentioning Robotnik in a positive light. But unlike Sonic who wouldn't trust Eggman, it'd be easier for Tails to get caught up in the idea of his new techie friend. Tails is a friendly kid (We all did it together!) and I don't think it'd be beyond Eggman to betray his confidence, especially if he stood in the way of some new scheme. Like how Knuckles' is too hotheaded to think rationally when Eggman goes bluffing about Sonic, Tails' trusting nature would do him in. But assuming Tails is strong enough, and Robotnik could be changed if he just had someone to talk to, do you think Tails could make any steps towards reforming him?

[Mick]

Maybe, but probably not. They'll become friends and then in the end they'll have a fight over which creation is better. I don't think it could happen and I know it's something that's not going to happen.

[Flyboy Fox]

Tails is too humble and easily disheartened to argue with Eggman over who is 'better'. On the flipside, when he's put down, he tends to kinda slink away... but then come back with something ten times better XD;

[Tsukiko]

*ahem*

I like that the two have a mutual respect for each other as technological mavericks. If Tails had meet him first before befriending Sonic I could totally see him working with the doctor as his apprentice despite is mad schemes.

Ok.....Same odds as Rockman befriending Wily, Sigma trying stop infecting ever reploid with the Irregular Virus and Dr. Wiel try to NOT destroy earth.

[psikeout]

I don't think Eggman will give up his schemes any time soon, and I don't think Tails will be able to befriend Eggman while he's scheming. However, I somehow picture an older, more tired Eggman finally chilling out. I guess I almost have this Chessmaster Hex-like image (for those of you familiar with Cowboy Bebop) for him, where in his age and senility, he'll probably become an amiable old man—The kind of guy I could see an older Tails dropping in on and visiting like a sort of grandpa figure.

Of course, that's venturing into the "never ever in the games or actual storyline" realm, but still, I think it's a novel thought.

Edited November 12, 2009 by psikeout

[Blazey Firekitty]

I think Tails just unfortunately got a bit of stardust in his eyes there. I mean, how often does he get to talk tech stuff with anyone without them yawning and rolling their eyes at him? I don't think that means they're BFFs now... just that Tails had a lapse of judgement and got carried away, forgetting that Eggman was more than likely to stab him in the back for it later (which he did x.x Doh!).

I figured the fact that Eggman was collectively stabbing everyone in the back meant it wasn't meant to be a personal attack on anyone specifically(At least in Eggman's mind). But maybe I'm being too optimistic.XD

[Dr. Mechano]

I figured the fact that Eggman was collectively stabbing everyone in the back meant it wasn't meant to be a personal attack on anyone specifically(At least in Eggman's mind). But maybe I'm being too optimistic.XD

I don't think anything's ever "personal" for Eggman; He'll walk over whoever he has to in order to get what he wants, but it's not out of spite or hatred so much as a lack of empathy or concern for other people. Eggman is one of those strange villains who'll attempt to obliterate you if it fulfills his ends, but will be nonetheless friendly and jovial all the way through since- after all- there are no hard feelings and it's nothing against you personally.

Think of a child stealing another child's toy; It's not because he wants the other child to be miserable, but merely because he wants the toy for himself. The second child's misery is merely a trivial side effect that the thieving child won't concern himself with. Eggman's conquest antics are like that on a larger scale; It's not that he wants to make anyone miserable, he just wants the world all to himself like a spoiled child, and doesn't particularly care what taking it will do to others. Or in the case of Chronicles, his betrayal of the heroes is similarly more for self-gain than it is for the intentional harm of the heroes for its own sake.

In this paradoxical way, Eggman may even genuinely like the very heroes he regularly attempts to wipe out of existence. I think Eggman is totally sincere in his friendliness towards Sonic, and for that matter Tails as well. He seems to genuinely like and respect them as people, but being the selfish man he is, won't let those positive feelings get in the way of destroying them for the sake of his goals. I think that makes sense. You know, in a demented mad scientist kind of way.

[SchemingMinor]

I don't think anything's ever "personal" for Eggman; He'll walk over whoever he has to in order to get what he wants, but it's not out of spite or hatred so much as a lack of empathy or concern for other people. Eggman is one of those strange villains who'll attempt to obliterate you if it fulfills his ends, but will be nonetheless friendly and jovial all the way through since- after all- there are no hard feelings and it's nothing against you personally.

Think of a child stealing another child's toy; It's not because he wants the other child to be miserable, but merely because he wants the toy for himself. The second child's misery is merely a trivial side effect that the thieving child won't concern himself with. Eggman's conquest antics are like that on a larger scale; It's not that he wants to make anyone miserable, he just wants the world all to himself like a spoiled child, and doesn't particularly care what taking it will do to others. Or in the case of Chronicles, his betrayal of the heroes is similarly more for self-gain than it is for the intentional harm of the heroes for its own sake.

In this paradoxical way, Eggman may even genuinely like the very heroes he regularly attempts to wipe out of existence. I think Eggman is totally sincere in his friendliness towards Sonic, and for that matter Tails as well. He seems to genuinely like and respect them as people, but being the selfish man he is, won't let those positive feelings get in the way of destroying them for the sake of his goals. I think that makes sense. You know, in a demented mad scientist kind of way.

Truth be told that he does hold a grudge against the little foxboy.

I would advise anyone who is interested in character reactions towards each other to take note how they would react in the new Mario and Sonic games (yeah, I have been promoting this puppy to death and the shopping village mode that comes along in the Wii version, but in all honesty it does promote a lot of non verbal information.)

Robotnik's reaction with Tails is to outright avoid him or threaten hostility against him, which in one of the rare cases is one of the few character interactions that he takes reign of and starts. Hostilities are also barred with Mario, Luigi (but in this case it seems that they start out the provoking first by taking an action against him,) Sonic and Blaze ( While Robotnik tends to show his displeasure by threatening them first.)

In the case of him seeing anyone as a playmate extends to everyone else (Knuckles, Yoshi, Peach, Daisy, Amy and Silver.) It's funny. He walks up to them while they react in a less than favorable manner towards him (Daisy, Yoshi and Peach are startled and frightened, while the other three threaten him) and for the most part after the tryst, Robotnik stands there stunned.

While for the most part Robotnik probably views all of these characters as "friends" in a warped sense, even the others who threaten him instantly. Tails while evoking such a displeasing behavior from the Doctor, probably doesn't fall into a category of people or things that he outright loathes with a burning passion, just something that in a sliver of his mind that he begrudgingly admires.

[Flyboy Fox]

I figured the fact that Eggman was collectively stabbing everyone in the back meant it wasn't meant to be a personal attack on anyone specifically(At least in Eggman's mind). But maybe I'm being too optimistic.XD

I wasn't saying that it was personal. Eggman stabbed them all in the back by turning on them once it was no longer necessary to work with them. I just meant that Tails should have known better than to trust Eggman so easily and openly like that ^^;