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Michelle Ruff, Cream's voice actor since 2010, says she hasn't recorded any new line since then and complains about SEGA


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@KuzuAt this point, the meaning of main and secondary is so subjective and open to interpretation that this whole discussion makes no sense at all. In my book, "main" means not secondary. The concept of "primary secondary" makes no sense and it's a contraddiction in itself. I get what you mean, but it really feels like a stretch.

Even by your explanation, my issue is that by saying that Cream is "the sidekick of the main heroine" or "second fiddle to a secondary character", while in fact the two sentences mean the same thing, they sound very different, and one gives the impression that the character is more important than with the other. This is a trick used by journalists in order to alter the message of a news while still being accurate to the facts.

So far I'm not even commenting on the character, just on the wording... and I hate doing so.

I think that Amy is now considered the 4th main character and not secondary at all, especially after Frontiers and Origins. Also, when Cream was "second fiddle" to Blaze, she had exactly the same role as Tails in the game, even bigger if we count that she got more spotlight in the ending part of the game (Sonic Rush). This discussion about importance of characters does feel like Smash Bros nonsense and I dislike it, it goes nowhere and just generates flame.

I also partially agree with @Zaysho (except on the D-tier part, see the last sentence of the above paragraph), but at the end of the day, this is also a thread in Sonic Chat/Games, so I don't think that moving the focus on the character is wrong per se, and a general discussion about VAs doesn't make much sense in the Sonic Chat section IMO.

The fact that no new voices for Cream have been recorded yet, since 2010, also kinda confirms that there are no games with major roles of Cream in them for the next year or two, maybe more (which is the major reason of why I'm complaining). I think I already said enough about the VA in some of my previous posts, there's not really much else to say.

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I really don't see what is so complicated or complex about this. It's generally agreed that Sonic is the main protagonist of the entire series...ya know, because it's named after him.

Even if there have been other characters who have taken a more central role, Sonic is still the primary character at the end of the day.

When people call Amy a "main heroine" it just generally means she's the primary female character...which she is because that's how Sega promotes her. But she is, by definition, a supporting character. Literally applied to everyone even Tails and Knuckles.

 

 

There's nothing complex about this. You're getting caught up in semantics.

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In all fairness, using the character more does go hand in hand with the VA getting more work, barring the whole drama with not paying for recycled voice work. You can’t really get anywhere with a character you don’t make use of.

But there it lies the dilemma—either Sega doesn’t see much use in her or they don’t know where to place her in something major, and a slew of other underlying details I’m definitely oversimplifying.

But of all characters, this isn’t really unique to Cream the Rabbit. If you want that to change, you need to find a way to make her more demandable or popular. And that’s also over plenty of other characters who could very easily overshadow her, and surprisingly aren’t named Shadow.

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As much as I'm a fan of Cream, I'm not really into the idea that creators should inherently value every one of their characters just because...

Or that neglect of a character means that they somehow have it out against that character specifically.

It's just not that big of a deal that Sega doesn't want to use Cream the Rabbit.

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I'll never forgive Sega for hiring Laura Bailey to voice Blaze and then proceeded to do absolutely nothing with her afterwards. I don't even care if they use the characters or not to an extent, but then don't hire high profile voice actors when you have no plans on doing anything. Even Erica Lindbeck feels a little too high profile when Blaze is still underutilized so heavily. 

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7 hours ago, CrownSlayer’s Shadow said:

In all fairness, using the character more does go hand in hand with the VA getting more work, barring the whole drama with not paying for recycled voice work. You can’t really get anywhere with a character you don’t make use of.

And that's exactly why I brought TSR in the discussion. It was the perfect chance for Cream's VA to get more work on the character, and there was no reason to not include Cream in the game, given that she would have been a natural fit as the third member of Team Rose in place of Omochao.

It's fine that she was missing in Unleashed, Colors (Wii), Lost World, Forces, and Frontiers, but TSR was the perfect chance to use the character to make the fans happy and let the VA work so she would not complain; it was just a missed opportunity.

5 hours ago, StaticMania said:

As much as I'm a fan of Cream, I'm not really into the idea that creators should inherently value every one of their characters just because...

They aren't forced to... it's just a form of respect for that part of your fanbase who like a character, to use said character at least once in a decade and make those fans happy for once.

But yeah they aren't forced to, it would just be a nice thing to do. Maybe they think they're good with the skins in the mobile games, and the occasional name drops in dialogues, but that's really disappointing and uninteresting content (especially because those mobile games suck and in case of Speed Battle, it's a predatory game that's more frustrating and time consuming than fun).

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It would be a nice thing if SEGA were to...use the characters they have, yes.

This is video games, they don't actually need a justification to do that like other mediums.

It's purely based on interest.

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There's also a matter of practicality too; we're not in the era where every single character can just show up in every game anymore. Forces was in development for four years after Lost World, and then Frontiers came out five years after that. That's three mainstream games in the span of nine years. 

So you kind of have to pick and choose which characters are going to get attention and because the cost of developing video games is only getting higher, you wanna maximize profit and audience interest. So are you gonna focus on the popular characters who everyone loves to see, or do you take a risk and focus on a more obscure character? These are things to consider these topics come up. 

So yea, those mobile games and spin offs are essentially the only way you're going to see characters like Cream in a bigger capacity unless they bite the bullet and try to put her back in the main games. And even if they did do that, if the game fails to underperform it would just reinforce that the risk wasn't worth it. Like @CrownSlayer’s Shadowsaid, Cream is a character that is very easy to overlook because her central premise just isn't that interesting, nor does she have a significant dynamic to Sonic like the other more prominent characters do. Its not an indictment on her, its just how it is. 

Some characters are destined for greatness, while others languish. 

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32 minutes ago, Kuzu said:

...nor does she have a significant dynamic to Sonic like the other more prominent characters do.

I feel like her potential dynamic with Sonic would be similar to the one he currently has with Tails, but more formal and he's a bit subtly patronizing.

I'd like to see her interact with Sonic for real and it could simply happen in a 2D game with Sonic Rush cutscenes.

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9 minutes ago, StaticMania said:

I feel like her potential dynamic with Sonic would be similar to the one he currently has with Tails, but more formal and he's a bit subtly patronizing.

I'd like to see her interact with Sonic for real and it could simply happen in a 2D game with Sonic Rush cutscenes.

This here is the biggest problem with Cream imo. If you look at some of the fan favorite characters, the one thing they all tend to have in common is that they have a very unique dynamic with Sonic that usually tends to bring out different sides of him. 

So what separates Cream from say, Amy or Tails? The latter already occupies the older/younger sibling dynamic. The former is the "normal" citizen who tended to get in over their head, albeit they've kind of phased that out as of late in favor of just making her a rather generic friend. 

But the biggest thing holding her back imo is that she's too passive; she has no goals, nor drive to act unless forced to. Even in her introduction, her primary motivation was simply rescuing her Mom. She needs something to drive her actions instead of just...things happening to her. 

That's one of the worst traits a major character can have. 

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2 minutes ago, Kuzu said:

That's one of the worst traits a major character can have. 

You've just explained why she doesn't need to be a "Major" character.

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3 minutes ago, StaticMania said:

You've just explained why she doesn't need to be a "Major" character.

I'm just talking about if they were to, hypothetically, seriously start pushing her. 

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22 minutes ago, Kuzu said:

But the biggest thing holding her back imo is that she's too passive; she has no goals, nor drive to act unless forced to. Even in her introduction, her primary motivation was simply rescuing her Mom. She needs something to drive her actions instead of just...things happening to her. 

You could use “things happening to her” as a motivation for Cream to be less passive and more active, or even proactive, thus opening room for more utility of her character and giving her goals to set out and reach.

Things like the aftermath Metal Virus could be the spark that makes Cream want to participate more to help make the world a better place, that despite things going back to normal, she doesn’t want anything like that happening again and sets out to take preventive measures. But, again, you won’t get anywhere with her if she get put back into that passive state to maintain status quo.

Just some food for thought.

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Maybe it's because I like the character, but I think she's very interesting.

-She's a chao keeper, and supposed to be an expert too. Whenever the game has a chao minigame, side quest or simply chao involved in any way, you can use Cream for a cameo, an NPC, a rival (imagine a chao race minigame where you have to defeat her), and so, like Big the Cat is used whenever fishing is a thing.

-She's a civilian, can be used to show the world from the POV of civilians. In a situation where there is a world wide threat such as a big war like Forces, you can have a side story of Cream trying to survive to the crisis, help other civilians, protect her mother, etc. This doesn't need to be directly connected to the main plot of the game, it can be a situation like Sonic Adventure 1 where some characters have stories which are more secondary.

-The Hero/not-hero dynamic along with Vanilla being overprotective to her. She's not a hero, but she is... she's weak, but she's not actually... Vanilla fears for her safety and wants her to stay at home, but Cream is actually skilled enough to fight Eggman, she just trusts her mother and is too kind to disobey her. But when she's in danger, she reveals her true potential, and unlike characters who are already considered heroes/fighters, when it does happen with Cream, it feels like a bigger thing.

(I feel like Cream was great in the Metal Virus arc because the setting allowed for both of the former 2 points to happen in the story).

-Cream can come as a duo (trio because Cheese) with Gemerl, and Gemerl is cool. Gemerl can be used as an excuse to convince Vanilla to let Cream go to adventure even if there are potential dangers, because he can protect her.

-Cream being a child and acting like a child can be used as a pretext to involve her into adventures without need of complex stories. "I want to go adventure too" "I want to be a hero too" etc. Simple stories can feature her without much explanation.

-A lot of interesting dynamics with other characters have not been explored yet and I think they can be fun or cool. She can act little sister big brother with Knuckles, unlock memories of Maria to Shadow by acting innocently like her, and more. Also, Cream is best friend with Blaze, and I would love another story with the two together.

-Gameplay wise, i REALLY WANT them to expand on integrating the chao mechanics in fast paced platforming; I even made a concept scheme with drawings of how Cheese could be integrated in a 2D game in a creative way.

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I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with her that impedes the ability to tell stories, the problem more surface level than that. No one really wants Cream content in the same way that they want content of Sonic or Shadow. Sonic games are action oriented and nothing about Cream stands out in that regard. She doesn't have that "cool" factor by design and the mechanics they've based her around are pretty dull. You don't fantasize about having Cream's abilities the same way you do Sonic. You could argue that characters who don't have that offer some much needed variety and I'd agree but there's a reason she stays secondary. It's a nice way to shift gears but it's not really what the kids are here for.

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IMO the lack of cool factor is the only thing that holds her back. She's designed to be cute, and the majority of Sonic's audience is made of young boys who don't care of cute/girly characters and prefer superpowers over having a pet in the game.

But that's only partially a problem. Nobody is saying that Cream should be a main character, and it's fine for a support character to not be a superhero with superpowers for once. In Sonic Frontiers people went to the pond for fishing and nobody complained about Big, he was appreciated as far as I know. At the same time, I think that cool factor alone means nothing... characters such as Espio and Omega are cool, but still not interesting enough to be fan favorites, so much that nobody seems to care that Omega started to not appear anymore with Shadow and Rouge lately. Cream may lack of coolness, but I think she has more going for her than those two characters and some others, at least.

Besides, Cream can be cool too... wasn't Cream cool when she met Dead Adder telling him in the face that she didn'f fear him, or when she floated like Super Sonic with Cheese spinning around her like a shield in Advance 2? And didn't she look cool in that Sonic Channel calendar artwork from 2019?

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Wouldn't someone fantasize about having a personal military robor at home if Gemerl was featured more in games, and associated with Cream? And Cheese, what if they made him cooler, by explaining why he's stronger than a regular chao with some new ideas, such as, Chao can become much stronger if they develop a bond with their owner... Stuff such as Megaman Battle Network, Beyblade, Digimon, Pokèmon and a lot other franchises also have similar themes and kids seem to love the concept.

Cream's fighting with cheese can look dull, but only because the developers never bothered to make it looking interesting. Look at the animations of Mario and Luigi in the RPG series: they get all those weird and creative tag actions, why can't Cream have something like that for a moveset? Chao can shape shift and copy animals, can't this become a gameplay element too? Chao descend from the ancients... Chao are connected to the Chaos Emeralds as well...

If you ask me, Cream is a character with great potential but Sega didn't even try to develop her enough.

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4 hours ago, Iko said:

-A lot of interesting dynamics with other characters have not been explored yet and I think they can be fun or cool. She can act little sister big brother with Knuckles, unlock memories of Maria to Shadow by acting innocently like her, and more. Also, Cream is best friend with Blaze, and I would love another story with the two together.

If the problem is Cream's lack of relevance, having her lean on Blaze or Shadow is a bad idea. Cream was created to be Amy's flight assistant in Sonic Heroes. Amy's answer to Tails. Her sidekick, essentially. In other words, Cream existed to make Amy look better. Of course, SEGA screwed it up tremendous. Made Amy a psycho so Cream could be the voice of reason. Now Amy is the voice of reason. Sonic and Knuckles already have Tails as their little sibling figure. Blaze has Marine, and Shadow has Sonic. It WAS weird she wasn't in TMOSTH, or TSR, or Forces. Or Lost World. So the question then is, why not? What's the holdup? Is kart racing really too dangerous? Mario Kart gets away with literal toddlers. Would Cream think it's too dangerous? If not, would it be in-character for her to disobey orders and try to sneak in anyway? Is her pride worth the risk of getting in trouble or would she rather stay home and watch TV?

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4 hours ago, Scape said:

It WAS weird she wasn't in TMOSTH, or TSR, or Forces. Or Lost World.

Outside of Team Sonic Racing, it's not weird that she isn't in any of these.

Her absence is weird because they clearly haven't retired the character and still produce artwork of her.

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Big is a meme character, hence why he's appreciated. Cream doesn't really have that either.

I'm not saying she's never bound to get her due. I'm saying that, if they do try to do anything with her, yes there are some things they need to address.

 

Personally speaking, I think she's fine atm. Her only real problem is that Sonic games don't really focus on small scaled, mundane moments anymore like they did before because that's where supporting characters like her shine the most. 

The games mostly are mostly focused on getting plot point to plot point, so there's not much room to put anyone else.

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Cream has:

  • Cheese, who from a gameplay perspective is broken as fuck
  • Gemerl, an ancient military robot with loads of features rivaling E-123 Omega, and has potential to be broken as fuck if his previous incarnation of Emerl is anything to go by.
  • And is friends with most of the cast who can likely teach her tricks and trade that can help her be more active.

If you ask me, “cool factor” isn’t even an issue. It just the simple matter of her utility—I guarantee you could look at another franchise and find a parallel to Cream that actually puts her to shame in how much more contributive they are.

Here, I’ll provide an example:

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This is Gummy, a character from a game I like to play called Arknights. Let’s get some things out the way: it’s a character-based tower defense game that is even more antithetical as a genre to Sonic than the true final boss of Frontiers. And if any of you even remotely think I’m suggesting we turn Sonic into that, then you’re deliberately missing the point like a jackass.

I bring this character up because look at her. She’s cute, adorable, and very much a kid close to Tails’ age as opposed to Cream (I actually think she’s 10 years old). She’s also a member of a private military company…er, I mean a mobile pharmaceutical company that goes around her world trying to treat a very potent disease in the setting, with said pharmacy actually having, and I shit you not, an armed military force to protect itself and those they ally with in their quest to help the world.

What’s Gummy’s role? She a fucking tank, or “Defender,” who serves as defense of her team. That slab of metal isn’t for show, she actually uses it in gameplay.

As a bonus, she also heals people.

And this is in a setting that basically has the equivalent of the Metal Virus worldwide on top of various wars. And don’t get started on this characters background.

She’s among my favorites to use for her sheer utility.

That is something Cream needs more than anythjng. She can be as cute as she wants, but if you make her useful as hell, you’d see more use of the character, cuteness be damned.

I’m actually more surprised they never capitalized on her gameplay from the Advance series given how easy she can cheese things with…Cheese. Lol

In fact, wasn’t Cream the absolute best healer in the Sonic Chronicles rpg?

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1 hour ago, Kuzu said:

Big is a meme character, hence why he's appreciated. Cream doesn't really have that either.

I agree with what you said, and I think that it's actually an issue with the series. It would be nice to have those moments back again, they made the games deeper and more interesting.

Besides, that part about Big... offcourse he's a meme character, but I don't think it was for the memes that people liked him in Frontiers. That was just an example of good use for the side cast, Big was the perfect character for that perfect context, it did work well, without even relying on memes too much (just the fact he is in cyberspace without explanation maybe).

@CrownSlayer’s Shadow It's true that there are parallels to Cream in other series and some get the deserved love unlike her, though useful should not be confused with broken. Some people find unnecessarily broken characters to be annoying.

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3 hours ago, Kuzu said:

Arknights isn't a platformer....

And what exactly was your first clue to that?

3 hours ago, Iko said:

 

@CrownSlayer’s Shadow It's true that there are parallels to Cream in other series and some get the deserved love unlike her, though useful should not be confused with broken. Some people find unnecessarily broken characters to be annoying.

So then balance her in a way that isn’t broken. I’m just saying there is something to bring out in Cream despite being the resident cutesy character.

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There's nothing fun about sending Cheese to go fight the enemies for you and the fantasy isn't all that appealing either . If you want to make her more appealing from a mechanical standpoint she needs a straight redesign. As she is now she takes too much agency away from the player and that's huge for creating a compelling action game.

This goes for a lot of the lore changes too. I agree that the best place for her is probably a secondary/support role but a lot of those niches are filled already, mostly by Tails. A lot of stuff you guys are asking for is stuff that isn't really there for Cream currently, and there's not much incentive to go back and do a bunch of revisions for her when there's more popular older characters and a near infinite amount of ideas for new characters they could be pursuing. The phrase "Cream has potential" doesn't really mean much. Most things have potential. Where's the incentive?

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