Michelle Ruff, Cream's voice actor since 2010, says she hasn't recorded any new line since then and complains about SEGA

[StaticMania]

5 minutes ago, thumbs13 said:

Wait, does this mean that her lines in Generations were stock audio?

No, it doesn't...

It's very unlikely that she had any full clips that would be usable from a DS game in the context of Sonic Generations.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Honestly, given how Sega wants to handle Cream, I wouldn’t mind a full on redesign of Cream if it makes her more versatile.

How you go about doing that, I’m all ears.

[Zaysho]

43 minutes ago, thumbs13 said:

Wait, does this mean that her lines in Generations were stock audio? I didn't even notice.

She would have at least recorded those cutscenes and maybe the efforts for that one but likely Generations, Free Riders, and Colors were all recorded in the same timeframe because that's when we got the new cast and Sonic games hadn't quite slowed down like they did yet. Most of the source audio in the Olympic games or whatever else since then is probably from any of those sessions but presumably mostly Colors DS.

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

4 hours ago, CrownSlayer’s Shadow said:

Honestly, given how Sega wants to handle Cream, I wouldn’t mind a full on redesign of Cream if it makes her more versatile.

How you go about doing that, I’m all ears.

Heh. I see what you did there.

I suppose for starters, not having her rely solely on Cheese for combat could be a start.

[Iko]

2 hours ago, Wraith said:

There's nothing fun about sending Cheese to go fight the enemies for you and the fantasy isn't all that appealing either . If you want to make her more appealing from a mechanical standpoint she needs a straight redesign. As she is now she takes too much agency away from the player and that's huge for creating a compelling action game.

Besides the fact that fun is subjective and you're criticizing the character from a gameplay stand point while not specifying what game you are referring to (she plays differently in every game, not that there are many where she's playable though), what's wrong in redesigning her gameplay? I think that every character implemented in a new game gets redesigned a bit to fit the new gameplay they are adapted to.

I think that Cream was the second most fun character to play as in Sonic Advance 2 (after Sonic himself), where the most boring was probably Tails, so this does not really say anything. Fun doesn't even come from Cheese... she has some very expressive and nice looking sprite animations, the best air mobility in the game, and a bigger quantity of different options to attack enemies than your average character, including the ability to stop flying and drop onto enemies: that's what makes her more fun.

Going by this logic, Sonic must be the worst character because in the boost games you just hold a button and the game plays itself. Indeed it sucks, but that's really only a problem of the mechanics of that specific game/gameplay style, not fault of the character.

You don't have to send Cheese at enemies, if you design a new gameplay where Cream and Cheese fight together in a different way. There's nothing in the character's profile that says that Cheese must only be an homing bullet and can't do something else, it's just a matter of creativity on the game designers' side.

2 hours ago, Wraith said:

This goes for a lot of the lore changes too. I agree that the best place for her is probably a secondary/support role but a lot of those niches are filled already, mostly by Tails. A lot of stuff you guys are asking for is stuff that isn't really there for Cream currently, and there's not much incentive to go back and do a bunch of revisions for her when there's more popular older characters and a near infinite amount of ideas for new characters they could be pursuing. The phrase "Cream has potential" doesn't really mean much. Most things have potential. Where's the incentive?

She does not require any lore change... maybe you can do some additions like I suggested before, but there's nothing of the existing lore that needs to be changed, she's fine. Also I disagree with everything else said there.

What was the incentive in using Mighty and Ray and in redesigning their moveset? Sorry if it sounds a bit rude (not my intention to be) but that feels like gatekeeping. Especially if you're giving her a secondary role like a minigame or NPC status, you don't need an incentive to do it, you can just put a character in the game when it fits, regardless of popularity (speaking of which, Cream is still well known enough to justify the inclusion in a game).

2 hours ago, thumbs13 said:

Wait, does this mean that her lines in Generations were stock audio? I didn't even notice.

Either the voices for Generations were recorded before (Colors and Generations came out close each other and maybe Generations started the development before), or just she forgot, but they're not stock voices.

[Kuzu]

2 hours ago, Iko said:

 

What was the incentive in using Mighty and Ray and in redesigning their moveset? Sorry if it sounds a bit rude (not my intention to be) but that feels like gatekeeping. Especially if you're giving her a secondary role like a minigame or NPC status, you don't need an incentive to do it, you can just put a character in the game when it fits, regardless of popularity (speaking of which, Cream is still well known enough to justify the inclusion in a game).

But they can just conversely not add her for these very reasons right? Especially if her inclusion is merely cosmetic. 

That's the kind of the thing here; why should Cream be added to these games beyond just appeasing her fanbase? That's not much of an incentive from a mechanical or even a narrative standpoint.

If you're gonna just add Cream into a game, but they have nothing for to actually do from a gameplay or story standpoint, what is the point of adding her besides fanservice? Isn't it just better to simply leave her out altogether? Why would you, as a fan, want to see misused.

 

Like shit, I'm a huge ass Shadow fan and I would nix half of his appearances altogether if I had my way. Because I value characters I like being used well as opposed to merely showing up for the sake of an appearance but having nothing interesting to actually show for it. 

[Kaotic Kanine]

 My God, this is a lot to unpack...

20 hours ago, Kuzu said:

Cream is a character that is very easy to overlook because her central premise just isn't that interesting, nor does she have a significant dynamic to Sonic like the other more prominent characters do. Its not an indictment on her, its just how it is. 

Then, like, adjust her central premise to be more interesting? Vector, Espio, and Charmy weren't exactly interesting when they first started off, but then they were made into a comical trio of detectives and now they're one of the more remembered side characters.

Or better yet, make the already "interesting material" for Cream more clear. Cream's bio in Sonic Generations and Sonic Channel described her as "full of curiosity" with a "thirst for knowledge". That's some solid long-term motivation for her to go on adventures right there; whereas every other character adventures for fun, sense of duty, or money. Cream goes on adventures to learn, to become more knowledgeable about this big and crazy world she lives in. Maybe also describe her upbringing as a sheltered/isolated one, and you add to Cream the immense desire to see and experience life outside of her home, be with people other than just her mom and the Chao. SEGA Heroes and IDW made a point of having characters commend Cream for being brave, with a cutscene in the former showcasing that by having her stand up to Death Adder. A scene which caught a lot of attention from folks, with Pringus McDingus even making an animation about it. After all, if Fluttershy from MLP is any indication, people love cute and harmless looking characters who can stare down huge and menacing figures. On that note, I've read in other places that Cream has been getting more popular among fans because of how she's OP in most of her playable appearances. So, maybe play into that? There are really a lot of things that can be done to make Cream more interesting, to those who don't find her such. SEGA/Sonic Team just needing to fucking use them.

As for having a significant dynamic with Sonic, Cream has already been shown in many media (especially Sonic X and this Sonic Channel story) to be like a younger sister to Sonic. Yes, I know you already pointed out Tails being the "younger sibling" to Sonic, but there's a world of difference between brothers and brother and sister. In this case, Sonic is a lot more protective and gentle with Cream than he is with Tails since, to Sonic, Cream is a lot more delicate and he wants to keep her safe and happy. Obviously Sonic wants the same for Tails, but he trusts and respects Tails enough to know that the fox can defend himself and doesn't need to be "talked down to" or otherwise be treated like a child. Like, that's just the difference between "brothers" and "brothers and sisters" to me. Though additionally, Cream is the one character who brings out Sonic's "sweetest side"; the part of him that is really freaking nice and humble. If Cream is upset for whatever reason, he'll travel half the globe to pick flowers for her. Cream makes Sonic a flower crown, he wears it with pride, not caring how unmasculine it may look. That makes for a pretty significant dynamic, if you ask me.

9 hours ago, CrownSlayer’s Shadow said:

That is something Cream needs more than anythjng. She can be as cute as she wants, but if you make her useful as hell, you’d see more use of the character, cuteness be damned.

I’m actually more surprised they never capitalized on her gameplay from the Advance series given how easy she can cheese things with…Cheese. Lol

In fact, wasn’t Cream the absolute best healer in the Sonic Chronicles rpg?

Yes, Cream was a god-tier white mage in Sonic Chronicles lol And absolutely agreed with your whole post! This is why I advocate so strongly for Cream to be a dedicated "support mage" in the cast. It's an immensely useful role that no one else currently takes up, and it offers Cream new abilities independent from Cheese. Such as, say, generating her own Shields to absorb damage with, for herself or allies. Maybe giving herself and allies a temporary boost in speed and/or power. Or even being a source of Rings, not unlike her Modern Sonic mission in Sonic Generations (where she and a few Chao are the only source of Rings for Sonic in City Escape). This offers Cream some unique gameplay and, of course, improves her applicability in most narratives. Cream could take part in the "serious plots" for the games, and she might finally see more actual use in the comics beside moral support/waitressing for the heroes.

And, uh, I guess all of the above is my answer to this lol

3 hours ago, CrownSlayer’s Shadow said:

Honestly, given how Sega wants to handle Cream, I wouldn’t mind a full on redesign of Cream if it makes her more versatile.

How you go about doing that, I’m all ears.

[Kuzu]

38 minutes ago, Kaotic Kanine said:

 My God, this is a lot to unpack...

Then, like, adjust her central premise to be more interesting? Vector, Espio, and Charmy weren't exactly interesting when they first started off, but then they were made into a comical trio of detectives and now they're one of the more remembered side characters.

Or better yet, make the already "interesting material" for Cream more clear. Cream's bio in Sonic Generations and Sonic Channel described her as "full of curiosity" with a "thirst for knowledge". That's some solid long-term motivation for her to go on adventures right there; whereas every other character adventures for fun, sense of duty, or money. Cream goes on adventures to learn, to become more knowledgeable about this big and crazy world she lives in. Maybe also describe her upbringing as a sheltered/isolated one, and you add to Cream the immense desire to see and experience life outside of her home, be with people other than just her mom and the Chao. SEGA Heroes and IDW made a point of having characters commend Cream for being brave, with a cutscene in the former showcasing that by having her stand up to Death Adder. A scene which caught a lot of attention from folks, with Pringus McDingus even making an animation about it. After all, if Fluttershy from MLP is any indication, people love cute and harmless looking characters who can stare down huge and menacing figures. On that note, I've read in other places that Cream has been getting more popular among fans because of how she's OP in most of her playable appearances. So, maybe play into that? There are really a lot of things that can be done to make Cream more interesting, to those who don't find her such. SEGA/Sonic Team just needing to fucking use them.

As for having a significant dynamic with Sonic, Cream has already been shown in many media (especially Sonic X and this Sonic Channel story) to be like a younger sister to Sonic. Yes, I know you already pointed out Tails being the "younger sibling" to Sonic, but there's a world of difference between brothers and brother and sister. In this case, Sonic is a lot more protective and gentle with Cream than he is with Tails since, to Sonic, Cream is a lot more delicate and he wants to keep her safe and happy. Obviously Sonic wants the same for Tails, but he trusts and respects Tails enough to know that the fox can defend himself and doesn't need to be "talked down to" or otherwise be treated like a child. Like, that's just the difference between "brothers" and "brothers and sisters" to me. Though additionally, Cream is the one character who brings out Sonic's "sweetest side"; the part of him that is really freaking nice and humble. If Cream is upset for whatever reason, he'll travel half the globe to pick flowers for her. Cream makes Sonic a flower crown, he wears it with pride, not caring how unmasculine it may look. That makes for a pretty significant dynamic, if you ask me.

This is a valid direction to take her character to be honest. Only thing I would add is to maybe tweak her design a bit to a more adventurous one? Like I'm not saying make her a full on tomboy or anything, but something that kind of leans into something more visually interesting for the players to latch onto. 

I personally like more spicy dynamics when it comes to Sonic that leads adversarial conflict, but given Sonic is mostly a pretty confident dude, a person who brings out a softer side of him isn't terrible.

And ya know, maybe tweak her gameplay so she's not just a more boring Tails to play as, or give a unconventional role like maybe running the Chao garden whenever you go there and she's the one maintaining them when the player puts them there. 

[StaticMania]

54 minutes ago, Kaotic Kanine said:

Cream goes on adventures to learn, to become more knowledgeable about this big and crazy world she lives in.

I'm gonna chime in to say: There's no problem with this inherently, nor is there a problem with this being Cream's motivation as a character...

But the actual problem with this would be Sega having to actually establish actually interesting world building and stuff that isn't simply disposable lore. Not only that, they'd need to make a world that feels lived in and inhabited with...NPCs, unique settings, buildings, landmarks.

Ya know, all the stuff they used to do...but doing it "now".

[Iko]

1 hour ago, Kuzu said:

But they can just conversely not add her for these very reasons right? Especially if her inclusion is merely cosmetic. 

That's the kind of the thing here; why should Cream be added to these games beyond just appeasing her fanbase? That's not much of an incentive from a mechanical or even a narrative standpoint.

If you're gonna just add Cream into a game, but they have nothing for to actually do from a gameplay or story standpoint, what is the point of adding her besides fanservice? Isn't it just better to simply leave her out altogether? Why would you, as a fan, want to see misused.

Like shit, I'm a huge ass Shadow fan and I would nix half of his appearances altogether if I had my way. Because I value characters I like being used well as opposed to merely showing up for the sake of an appearance but having nothing interesting to actually show for it. 

I never said that I'd like to see her misused. My point is that I don't expect her to be a playable main character in every game, but maybe she can have a Big-in-Frontiers-like role even in games where she isn't important. I said when a character "fits", which means, when it makes sense for that character to appear. The game has a Chao garden, Cream can be an NPC in it, something. I'm not suggesting to shoehorn her for fanservice, I don't care of that.

It's fine to not have her at all in some games, it's ok, but saying that her niche is already covered by other more popular characters and there's no place for her in the series is absolutely false.

Obviously I would like to have her playable, but not even Tails is playable in every game.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

I also want to add this fact: you can have more than one character in the same niche…or role, or whatever the heck else you wanna bring up.

Basically, just because you have one cute character doesn’t mean there’s no room for one more. I mean, for crying out loud, we have like 5 hedgehogs in the main series, three of which can go super saiyan after absorbing mystical rocks. That and we have several characters capable of flight, a few of which you could consider cute.

Are we going to use single traits of a character to judge the niche they fill, or are we going to judge the character as a whole? Because Cream and Charmy are both cute characters that can fly, but good fucking luck trying to argue that one makes the other redundant simply because of those two traits as opposed to everything else about their characters.

[Kuzu]

9 hours ago, CrownSlayer’s Shadow said:

I also want to add this fact: you can have more than one character in the same niche…or role, or whatever the heck else you wanna bring up.

Basically, just because you have one cute character doesn’t mean there’s no room for one more. I mean, for crying out loud, we have like 5 hedgehogs in the main series, three of which can go super saiyan after absorbing mystical rocks. That and we have several characters capable of flight, a few of which you could consider cute.

Are we going to use single traits of a character to judge the niche they fill, or are we going to judge the character as a whole? Because Cream and Charmy are both cute characters that can fly, but good fucking luck trying to argue that one makes the other redundant simply because of those two traits as opposed to everything else about their characters.

When you have two characters who fill a similar niche, then you have to put in some work in differentiating them

Sonic already has tons of redundant elements to it simply because they haven't done that.

 

The very fact that we're having this conversation about Cream shows that they actually haven't done that for her and probably have no plans on addressing it any time soon.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

21 minutes ago, Kuzu said:

When you have two characters who fill a similar niche, then you have to put in some work in differentiating them

That goes without saying, but that doesn’t really answer my question.

Cream and Charmy are cute characters that can fly, but is there not more to their whole characters than just those two physical traits? Particularly in the areas the differ?

[Kuzu]

4 minutes ago, CrownSlayer’s Shadow said:

That goes without saying, but that doesn’t really answer my question.

Cream and Charmy are cute characters that can fly, but is there not more to their whole characters than just those two physical traits? Particularly in the areas the differ?

The only real difference between them, aside from their genders of course, is that one is bratty and the other is polite. One is a bee and the other rabbit.

 

Aside from one or two traits, their differences are pretty cosmetic.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

1 hour ago, Kuzu said:

The only real difference between them, aside from their genders of course, is that one is bratty and the other is polite. One is a bee and the other rabbit.

Aside from one or two traits, their differences are pretty cosmetic.

What about their skills? Occupations?

Cream admittedly doesn’t have much in that area aside from maybe Chao rearing (if you even wanna count that), but Charmy is part of a detective agency despite being so young. Matter of fact, Charmy could serve as an effective search and scouter like he (sort of) did in ShTH trying to find disks in Prison Island.

Cream is more “civilian” compared to Charmy who, while not exactly a combat oriented character (which you can change), is a lot more “active” compared to Cream being more passive. You’re much more likely to see Charmy out on the field than you are to see Cream.

Interestingly enough, this contrast can be worked with to juxtapose Cream by forcing her out of said passive position and into a more active one. Provided you actually do something with her.

Cream also has a parent, which we all knew that. Charmy lacks that, unless you want to consider Vector or Espio a kind of parental figure. And even then, she’s one of the few characters with a biological one.

Surface traits aren’t the only traits of a character. You can dig deeper than that.

Likewise, you can build more into them. Given all of this, how would you add to Cream or Charmy to further differentiate them?

Personally, I’d lean more into Cream being a medic like she was in Chronicles, using her flight to quickly reposition to find and heal anyone injured in hard to reach places. And while she’s not an actual doctor she can at least patch wounds and lift the injured to safety so that those more skilled in medical practices can care for them.

For Charmy, he could be a scout to find clues or search for enemies while quickly hiding out of sight, allowing other characters he works with, say other members of the Chaotix or even Team Dark, locate an HVT (High Value Target) and keep them close until the cavalry arrives. Could be a effective partner with Espio and Rouge.

[Iko]

2 hours ago, Kuzu said:

The only real difference between them, aside from their genders of course, is that one is bratty and the other is polite. One is a bee and the other rabbit.

Aside from one or two traits, their differences are pretty cosmetic.

And that Cream is emotive and (more often than not) calm, while Charmy is hyperactive

And Charmy is a detective, while Cream is just a kid who loves taking care of other creatures (mostly Chao but not only).

And Cream wants to be friends with everyone and actively tries to understand the personality of problematic people in order to change them for the better, while Charmy doesn't seem to care, he just wants to have fun.

Aside of fly type, and age, they are completely different characters.

16 hours ago, Kuzu said:

And ya know, maybe tweak her gameplay so she's not just a more boring Tails to play as, or give a unconventional role like maybe running the Chao garden whenever you go there and she's the one maintaining them when the player puts them there. 

I already expressed my opinion on this, I think that Cream is more fun than Tails (in Advance 2 at least, in Heroes they are clones, and Advance 3 is a mess I don't even remember what the combinations do) because she has some more attack and movement options that Tails lacks. If you accidentally activate the flight with Tails, it's very annoying to wait until he lands... Cream can just cancel it and drop, also doing damage: that's enough to make her better. Again, that's just in that specific game... it depends on the games... I also don't want her to be a Tails clone.

I didn't post it earlier because I didn't want to spam my works (and also because it's complex to read, especially on a small screen), but since we're on the subject, this is the concept that I mentioned earlier, done by me some time ago.

It's an idea I had of making Cheese more interesting, and de-cloning Cream from Tails a bit. It's not necessarily the only option, it's just one idea that I had.

Spoiler

In short, I changed her flight to a multi-jump inspired by Chuchu in Kirby's Dream Land 3 (if you played that game you know what I mean), and each multi-jump would activate the drop status at the end, which mean that you can land on enemies to damage them and bounce (like in Advance 2).

She can roll normally, but instead of the spin dash, she has the Bunny Boost (the name is inspired by that awful Sonic Forces mobile game, but the move is an evolution of Amy's bunny hop from Advance 1). Each time you press the jump button while holding down, Cream will do a bunny hop and gain momentum... this status is similar to the Boost Mode in Advance 2 and releases a trail behind her to let the player know when it's active. In Bunny Boost, you have more grip, can climb steep slopes more easily, and can jump or roll while preserving the status, but you aren't invincibile, and if you slow down, you will exit the status.

And on top of that, I introduced a new system based on Cheese and the ability to copy traits from the animals that you release from the destroyed badniks. It was designed for the one-button gameplay like in the classics, and Cheese was supposed to act passively depending on the context and his stats, but maybe you can add one action button for Cheese to give him some orders, if being passive doesn't work well.

[Sapphirine Wind]

Cream's already got a particularly unique background and point of view that can be used in an interesting way. In the comics, it's been touched upon how she's got potential to be "someone amazing", possibly on par with Sonic's other friends, while also maintaining that she's still a young girl. Can't stress how that's a really interesting direction way to portray her, I feel like that's not a perspective I've seen since I discovered that people talk about Sonic on the Internet.

What's most important is that Sega/Sonic Team utilize her. There's no room for improvement if you haven't showed up for over a decade and your appearances in spinoffs are so minor that your voice clips are reused. Kinda shows how bending over backwards to please the people complaining about "sonic's shitty friends" was a terrible idea.

I never really thought anything bad of her place in Sonic's group, Team Rose, or Jubilee. I thought she worked well in her archetypes as the child of the group while still being able to carry her own kind of weight, as well as over 616 pounds.

[tailsBOOM!]

Hella late to this, but it's funny to see all the "fifth main character" argument when she isn't even the first to be pushed like to suddenly disappear, and she objectively has it better than the other one:

 

In the early 90s, he had insane levels of representation in the handheld games, even getting a power-up for some reason in Tails Adventure where Sonic and Knuckles were the only other 2.  He also appeared in the Drift series, was one of the titular main antagonists in Triple Trouble and was playable in Fighters.  Arguably his demise was the cancellation of X-Treme (He and Metal, who also would be absent from the Modern universe until Heroes, was intended as a boss http://info.sonicretro.org/Sonic_X-treme_bosses) and lack of mainline games in that period causing his relevance to dwindle before the release of Adventure.

I do agree with all the takes on voice royalties though.

[Kaotic Kanine]

I'm well aware of Fang's history lol And his fate is exactly why I get so worked up about Cream. Much as she has it better than him, Cream's absence in main games since Generations and even being neglected from the few spin-off titles where she should have been involved (TSR and TMoSTH) is a worrying trend for her character that will only result in her becoming irrelevant just like Fang. The only things giving me hope that this won't happen is Cream getting name-dropped in Frontiers and TMOSTH, but those won't mean much without an actual, substantiated appearance.

Though I'm also upset for Fang and how he got dropped from the franchise. Dude was the first major recurring villain who wasn't one of Eggman's creations, which we're sorely in need of nowadays, and has a lot of standout traits; being a hybrid creature (jerboa-wolf), wielding a weapon in the form of a gun (cork gun, but still), and he's the only Japanese-made Sonic character with four fingers (which are normally avoided due to the yakuza). Fang should've been kept around, but it's something that long-since can't be helped with.

2 hours ago, tailsBOOM! said:

I do agree with all the takes on voice royalties though.

Yeah, I meant to say this before this thread became "finished", but regardless of 'standard practices' and contracts, voice actors deserve payment whenever their recordings are used in material. Voice acting is a hard enough career as is, what with the need to constantly audition for any work to keep fed.

[Iko]

19 hours ago, tailsBOOM! said:

Hella late to this, but it's funny to see all the "fifth main character" argument when she isn't even the first to be pushed like to suddenly disappear, and she objectively has it better than the other one:

 

In the early 90s, he had insane levels of representation in the handheld games, even getting a power-up for some reason in Tails Adventure where Sonic and Knuckles were the only other 2.  He also appeared in the Drift series, was one of the titular main antagonists in Triple Trouble and was playable in Fighters.  Arguably his demise was the cancellation of X-Treme (He and Metal, who also would be absent from the Modern universe until Heroes, was intended as a boss http://info.sonicretro.org/Sonic_X-treme_bosses) and lack of mainline games in that period causing his relevance to dwindle before the release of Adventure.

I do agree with all the takes on voice royalties though.

Indeed, and the retirement of Fang also made no sense and was kinda bad for the series.

I like Fang a lot, I even put him in a couple of favorite characters lists in the past, and I feel like he would add a lot to the series as a third faction villain that's more neutral than Eggman, not really evil but just messes the things up for the sake of his personal satisfaciton. Rouge has the potential to be a bit like this if used well, but... no, Fang is just more fun as a character, because of the visual cartoon comedy he's usually associated with. He would work very well in the modern universe too, and I still constantly wish he will be brought back as a prominent character again at some point. Kinda the same thing I wished for Gemerl, though the chances were so low that I never expected them to really come back aside of a couple of nerdy cameos like the posters in Generations and the holograms in that Mania boss. IDW already surprised me by using both in a few stories, and I'm happy for that.

I also had hopes for Infinite to be treated as an edgier Fang at some point (post-Forces), but probably this will never happen too.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

So, this has been nagging at me for a while since this topic was made, but I have a question strictly to the Cream fans here:

Would you want Cream to stay more of a support character doing heals to the team? Or would you rather a re-vamped Cream that’s more “action girl” who, while still sweet and polite and thinking of others, would have no problem opening a can of whoop-ass if you somehow pissed her off or gave her no choice—as a bonus, she can still heal people, but she acts more like a “combat medic” in this case?

Basically, no changes to her personality, just skill sets and abilities.

[Kaotic Kanine]

16 hours ago, CrownSlayer’s Shadow said:

So, this has been nagging at me for a while since this topic was made, but I have a question strictly to the Cream fans here:

Would you want Cream to stay more of a support character doing heals to the team? Or would you rather a re-vamped Cream that’s more “action girl” who, while still sweet and polite and thinking of others, would have no problem opening a can of whoop-ass if you somehow pissed her off or gave her no choice—as a bonus, she can still heal people, but she acts more like a “combat medic” in this case?

Basically, no changes to her personality, just skill sets and abilities.

Hm, that's a tough one. The former suits Cream's character better and is a perfectly unique role not currently filled by any other character. But I also personally would prefer the latter since, ultimately, this is an "action series"; characters with little to no "action potential" are side characters at best, and I want Cream to be a major (preferably main) player again.

Not to mention that the characters who get the most attention in this fandom, and more importantly utilization from official writers, are those who can readily kick ass and go on adventures. Like, Cream had been outright declined from so much of Reboot Archie because of her lack of combat ability. And IDW is doing more the same, with the Zeena fight being the exception. So, if Cream being revamped to be more action-oriented helps her be more included in stories and such, so be it. I just want Cream to appear again and for fans to notice and praise her appearances (if mainly so she'd show up more often).

[batson]

Okay so I'm gonna admit right of the bat that I haven't read the entire thread so far, but regarding whether Cream was ever even supposed to be the "fifth main character" in the first place, I just wanna say, she totally 100% was. Now of course this does not in any way mean that Sega ever had an obligation of some sort to keep using her in case they ever got tired of her, but I'm just saying, she was absolutely intended to be part of Sonic inner circle of supporting characters right alongside Tails, Knuckles and Amy (then of course you had Eggman and Shadow who were just as "main" as anyone else besides Sonic, but they were obviously never part of Sonic's little close-knit super-friends team).

For a few years in the 00's Cream was always right there alongside those other mentioned characters in promo art, on merchandise, as a supporting character in games (usually neither more nor less important that Tails, Knux, ect), ect. And of course this all went on during the years when Sonic X was being produced, for which Cream was originally designed (before Sega then decided to have her make her debut in a game as opposed to the show), and in which Cream was 100% promoted as being part of the aforementioned group of main anthropomorphic characters.

So yeah, I think it's fair to consider Cream to be the most demoted character in the entire game series. No other character (obviously not counting characters from other media like, I dunno, Princess Sally or Chris Thorndyke) has gone from being one of the main characters among the main characters to being almost completely shafted. People bring up Silver, but the thing is he was demoted before he even had a chance to be promoted save for one singular game. One game, then he got sidelined, which means there was never a point in the series history where he was actually looked upon by fans as a main focal character. Cream on the other hand actually did have several years in the spotlight, long enough that people started taking her being in that spotlight for granted. Also, Creams fall from grace is more severe than Silvers due to the fact that Silver is actually still being used in the games, in the same minimal capacity as other reccuring-but-not-main characters like Vector and Blaze. Cream meanwhile is often the only one of the reccuring Dreamcast/dark-age-era characters to simply not appear at all.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

2 hours ago, Kaotic Kanine said:

Hm, that's a tough one. The former suits Cream's character better and is a perfectly unique role not currently filled by any other character.

Aside from perhaps Chronicles, I wouldn’t exactly say that’s the case since the role she actually fills—at least in terms of what I speaking on—is shared by others.

We have other flight types (we all know who they are), we have other cute types (Charmy, maybe Tails?), we have a number of civilians types (Amy was in Cream’s position long before the young rabbit was in the drawing board), etc.

And even considering those characters, they’ve also changed and grown into something else.

Cream’s the only character with a…I’m not sure how else to phrase it, but an “attack pet”, if you will, and even that’s easy to replicate depending on how you structure other characters.

Now if you bring back her healing in Chronicles, then things actually differ more for her benefit.

Main reason I asked about revamping Cream is because I was playing Freedom Planet 1 and was reminded of Milla the Hound coming in and saving me at critical moments where I was in need of health, and then looked back at Milla’s abilities like her Phantom Cube Shield. Very much defensive oriented (also ties back in to my Arknights comparison with Gummy earlier), but game breaking in the sense that most projectiles can not only be blocked but can also return the damage back to enemies and bosses.

Not the same as siccing Cheese on a boss like an attack dog, but it’s not like being a “Support” has rigid rules preventing such a character from being defensive or offensive (especially since Milla can now throw hands in Freedom Planet 2, but is still has her sweet nature to her).

Not saying give Cream outright superpowers (although if you want that as well, hey, go for it), but I’m having trouble seeing the struggle of where to take the character. It’s like I said before, you can’t really grow the character of you don’t really make use of them. And I’m more convinced Sega aren’t really trying or holding the character back because they themselves can’t seem to see that.

Hell, you could actually separate Cheese from Cream and make him a playable character too. Why that isn’t an idea I have no clue.

[Wraith]

Sonic doesn't work off of a traditional health system, so there's not a place for a healer to really fit in unless you just want someone to generate/airdrop rings. Not a bad use of her but Tails could fly in with a ring box just as easily.