Surge = Infintie done right?

[MetalSkulkBane]

Infinite's failures in the franchise always mystified me. With fandom varied as ours you would think he would have some fans. But from my experience at very best, he gets "Shame, there was potential here".

So I've been listening to his theme, most (only?) praised part of him, trying to figure out what he should have been, and then it hit me
"I am the sharpest of blades;"
"Cause I was born in this pain,"
"(What I find in the ashes, you lose in the fire!)"

That's basically Surge the Tenrec. Intentionally or not, Flynn created a villain that represents everything Infinite does but done better
- Edgelord
- Traumatic backstory
- Great power
- Motivated by the nihilistic desire to see the world burn

It all there. They even both don't live up to the hype, but in very different ways: Infinite comes off as a loser given too much power. Meanwhile, while Starline wanted Surge to surpass Sonic, Ian Flynn always intended her to be an imposter, unable to catch up to Sonic's awesomeness.

Thoughts?

[Kazhnuz]

There is a huge difference between both, imo : Infinite is an asshole even before he is "transformed" (well, Surge might have been one, but it's not an element in her story now), and show from the start belief that "weak" deserve less than the powerful, acting as if they're nothing. Infinite is more something that is constructed in opposition to the "Sonic-Avatar" relationship, and I feel they don't tell the same kind of story. There are a few moment where Sonic Forces act as if we're supposed to feel bad for Infinite, but it's not its whole story. He is more shown to live the consequence of his own action, his own quest of power.

But we can see similarities to him in both Surge (edgelord, great power, nihilism) and Starline (not being happy with the state of the world and wanting a change that is more destructive, some kind of irony against heroes).

( In a way, I would say that Infinite is more similar to Scourge than Surge is, as he is a bully with thermonuclear power. Basically your generic internet edgelord. )

[ouenji]

1 hour ago, Kazhnuz said:

( In a way, I would say that Infinite is more similar to Scourge than Surge is, as he is a bully with thermonuclear power. Basically your generic internet edgelord. )

Definitely agree with this. I know it must come as a huge shock to everybody, but I'm a bit of a Scourge fan. Both him and Infinite are so similar in that sense, and the distinction is how they're treated by the narative. We're supposed to take Infinite's grandstanding seriously, seeing him as a sypathetic but cool villain with a totally tragic past, but it's all so over the top that nothing sticks. With Scourge, you're supposed to know he's full of it, you know? He digs himself into a hole in spite of himself, and pushes away every last piece of advice he could get. Expecially if you take into account his time as Evil Sonic, he's shown to be pretty damn sad and pathetic.

Infinite comes in with a backstory that's muddy to begin with. It was of course later established that he was hurt by his bounty team getting wiped out and getting dismissed by Shadow, but much of the base game writing, as well as the leaked Sonic Wars script, seems to build him up as Eggman's creation. Trying to make a villain without even being sure of his origin story is... a bold move, I'll give them that. With him being taken down by Shadow, it's hard to take any of it seriously. There's a reason people joke about "I AM NOT WEAK!", it's somebody unable to accept any fault in himself refusing to confront it, played like a slight against him. Though for the earlier story, being a creation of Eggman, that could lean into that comparison with Surge, at least.

If Infinite was going to reach his full potential, he needed to be a less confused character. If he's going to be an irredeambable edgelord like Scourge, they should acknowledge that in the text. If he's going to be at all sympathetic like Surge, then his tragic backstory shouldn't just be born from his own unchanging arrogance. Not to mention, why do these characters want to see the world burn? Surge has been sculpted by Starline for destruction, and now she's out for Sonic and the world that reveers him for all that's wronged her. Infinite? Really, you'd think he'd have at least some focus on Shadow, but not really. He's just drunk on power, because it proves he isn't weak. But we don't even get to see a proper conclusion to that arc where he's defeated and has to face the truth, because that happens off-screen.

So, to me, his wasted character comes from that. No complete character arc, just gone with a whimper. I get the feeling that even the writers didn't know how we were supposed to feel about him. Written like Scourge with the self-absorbed start and whimper of an end, but treated with the weight of a villain like Surge or most others, really. I feel like he'd have way more fans if he confidently filled one thing or the other.

Of course, this is all just my interpretation, and I'm interested in what everybody else will have to say in this thread!

[The Deleter]

I mean I kinda figured that's moreso Whisper's thing

- Takes a concept of someone's squad getting murked resulting in trauma
- Hides her trauma behind a mask
- Has the story and dynamics with the characters focus on how she deals with this trauma after the fact

She's the opposite side of the coin, but always felt like the writers were taking advantage of the concept that Infinite fans bemoaned Infinite not actually following up on, and the potential that they cite with exploring such a character.

[DabigRG]

Yeah, I noticed that parallel right away and it's kind of a testament to how relatively well made the Glitch Trio were that that parallel was not only incorporated, but improved. 

Funnily enough, you also have the parallel in how neither character was quite what they were intended to be out of universe: both were intended to be artificial beings created by science initially, but then Sega made decisions that resulted in them being converted and altered cyborgs.