Hedgehog Engine

[whatagreatview]

We all know the Hedgehog Engine has it's ups and downs, but if what do you think about it? Should it be used in future games? If so, should it be applied to more characters than Sonic? What can they do to improve it?

In my opinion, they need to make it so that it is easier to control the character when they're going at top speeds or in Hub worlds. If they use it on another character, it should be Shadow. I just can't see Tails or Knuckles going at speeds that fast or using a boost like Sonic.

I also think they could make Super forms in regular stages with the Hedgehog Engine. Its incredible speeds make it perfect for going through the stages as Super Sonic.

What do you think?

[SuperLink]

The Hedgehog Engine is a graphics engine, not a physics or gameplay engine.

That said, it's very vibrant and visually pleasing in many ways at day. For me it's one of the best looking PS360 games out there. So yes I hope they use it again.

[Autobobby1]

The Hedgehog Engine is a graphics engine, not a physics or gameplay engine.

That said, I loved the graphical style of Unleashed and hope that they use it from here on out.

[Rusty Spy]

I really think Sega should modify their engine so that it'd work for the Wii. If not, it could seriously hinder the quality of games if they're on both Wii and PS360 consoles, if not at the sacrifice of making major changes to the Wii version, for better or worse.

[Aregulardude]

The Hedgehog Engine, along with applying very rich textures and global illumination, can stream data at an incredible pace, able to load polygons faster than before, allowing Sonic to go so fast in Unleashed, if anyone wasn't all that aware of what the engine does. The game was absolutely beautiful, and the character models in that game can stand up to pre-rendered CGI (Sonic's model at least can). However, I feel like through all of this, that is where we get a lot of our frame slowdowns, so if they bring this back, which they should, they should iron out the bugs and slowdowns the engine produces.

Edited March 14, 2009 by Aregulardude

[ShadiWulf]

I really think Sega should modify their engine so that it'd work for the Wii. If not, it could seriously hinder the quality of games if they're on both Wii and PS360 consoles, if not at the sacrifice of making major changes to the Wii version, for better or worse.

What the hedgehog engine does on the 360 and PS3 is impossible to do on the Wii, it has enough trouble working on 360 and PS3 as you can see when playing Sonic Unleashed.

[Solly]

Yes, I think they should keep it. It would need some modifications, but what it actually manages to achieve and how well it performs is pretty groundbreaking(except for Jungle Joyride Act 1).

I really think Sega should modify their engine so that it'd work for the Wii. If not, it could seriously hinder the quality of games if they're on both Wii and PS360 consoles, if not at the sacrifice of making major changes to the Wii version, for better or worse.

I guess it would be nice, but it certainly isn't realistic.

[188Eternal]

The Hedgehog Engine is a graphics engine, not a physics or gameplay engine.

So then what's the name of the engine which contains the antigravity loopy-loops which made Sonic so famous?

[SuperLink]

I guess it doesn't really have a name,but the Hedgehog engine is new, for Sonic Unleashed. The physics of old Sonic games are just attempted imitations of pinball physics, momentum based stuff.

[ShadiWulf]

Hedgehog engine could be considered a gameplay engine... it's what allows the game to go so fast through massive detailed environments.

[Blue Blood]

NO! It ISN'T a gameplay engine at all. It is a graphics engine, and much like every other graphics engine it impacts how the gameplay can be handled.

[ShadiWulf]

gameplay isn't glorified as having engines though.. so who cares. It's always about graphics or physics engines. Gameplay would be the same no matter what engine basically, all depends on who is programming.

[DaBatGuy]

Actually gameplay does have its own engines however they are seldom used outside of their intended game unless they are very versatile like the Unreal or Half life engines. Also unique gameplay engines are usually tightly kept secret with the developers which is why they don't have names( or why the general public doesn't know of them). The only way we can actually access the original Mega Drive Sonic engine is to reverse hack it through a ROM.

[Sega DogTagz]

We all know the Hedgehog Engine has it's ups and downs, but if what do you think about it?

The Hedgehog Engine had downs????

Blastfamy!!!

but what it actually manages to achieve and how well it performs is pretty groundbreaking(except for Jungle Joyride Act 1).

Well, Sonic Team just "unleashed" that Adabat patch on us so we know that at the very least the Engine can handle it if they were to spend some more time with the glitchy parts.

Anyway, I think the H.E. was a phenomenal achievement for a series that needed the change. Like all graphics engines, it could stand to be updated here and there, but it is a rock foundation that Sonic Team is welcome to camp on for years to come.

[Unknownlight]

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that Havok was used as the physics engine for Unleashed. But even then, don't complain that it's was because of the physics engine that made Sonic slippery, that was the fault of Sonic Team.

But anyway, the only flaw with the Hedgehog engine I can find is that it doesn't animate the Werehog's fur too well, but otherwise it's fantastic! Of course it should be used for the next game.

[goodone121]

About Werehog fur: the best I can put it is the "clumps" were too large. They need to find out the cause.

[123654]

The hedgehog engine is the graphics engine, and it's beautiful.

The gameplay engine, though, needs to be reworked with more flexible controls. Fun as Unleashed was, the controls were too inhibiting. They need to find a way to blend the good points of Adventure and Unleashed together somehow.

[ShadiWulf]

Actually gameplay does have its own engines however they are seldom used outside of their intended game unless they are very versatile like the Unreal or Half life engines. Also unique gameplay engines are usually tightly kept secret with the developers which is why they don't have names( or why the general public doesn't know of them). The only way we can actually access the original Mega Drive Sonic engine is to reverse hack it through a ROM.

Well yeah, duh. They aren't hyped up like other engines though, they are just, there.

[Solly]

Well, Sonic Team just "unleashed" that Adabat patch on us so we know that at the very least the Engine can handle it if they were to spend some more time with the glitchy parts.

I really don't think that Adabat's frame rate could go much higher from here. No matter how good the engine is, the hardware still has limits.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that Havok was used as the physics engine for Unleashed. But even then, don't complain that it's was because of the physics engine that made Sonic slippery, that was the fault of Sonic Team.

I'm fairly sure the Havok engine is only used to run physics processes such as breaking boxes/robot parts, and that it doesn't have any effect on the gameplay.

[Eternal EX]

The Hedgehog Engine had downs????

I know right? I didnt see any thing wrong with it.

[Golden Wonder]

I'm fairly sure the Havok engine is only used to run physics processes such as breaking boxes/robot parts, and that it doesn't have any effect on the gameplay.

This is true. The same goes for Sonic 2006, hence the reason why the boxes and such had realistic physics, but Sonic himself could stand perfectly still, upside-down on loops.

The Hedgehog Engine however, is a superb graphics' engine indeed. Sonic Unleashed was pretty much a tech demo as far as the engine was concerned, and its capabilities shone through. The global illumination was an excellent touch (although I'm not sure if it was pre-baked, or entirely real-time. It looked nice, nonetheless) and its capacity for smooth geometry, good texturing and general lighting is very good indeed. I think the actual style helped the game along, however. It's a technically competent engine, but how well it's used otherwise might negate its impact... but that goes for most things. However, there's always room for more optimisation etc.

That being said, the slowdown in Adabat likely had little to do with the adequacy of the engine, and more to do with the fact there was a hell of a lot going on visually. Using the engine well and knowing its limits is an important factor for improving framerates (in other words, they decided to show off just a little too much). We might consider current hardware and software to be pretty advanced, but we can't just toss everything and the kitchen sink into an environment and expect it to run fluidly just yet.

As for the fur thing... there's not a whole lot that can be done about that really. The fin and shell method is still pretty much the most feasible technique that can be used on modern hardware (there are others, but they're not really common practices, and are difficult/slow/ugly if implemented badly (which is all too easy to do), or just plain infeasible with most engines), and it's about as good as it's gonna be for awhile.

Edited March 15, 2009 by Gewwy

[ShadiWulf]

Werehog's fur made some of the Night time areas frame suffer, Lol. Spagonia ran perfectly during the day, but during the night in the hub i could detect some slowdown.

[Tiller]

The engine itself is absolutely fantastic and full of future potential. I have to give mad props to the gorgeous artstyle as well, but it's also important to remember that the engine was able to render the artstyle in the first place. My only real gripe besides the framerate issues was the fact that there was no "fade in" sort of animation for far away game objects (not backgrounds) when the game's data streamer comes to a new object to display. You can see this in the beginning of Jungle Joyride Act 1 when spikes and obstacles seem to appear instantaneously from thin air. Of course, Sonic's insane speed makes it hard to realistically work around it, but adding a subtle fade in like I see in games that use similar data streamers could make it better.

I really don't think that Adabat's frame rate could go much higher from here. No matter how good the engine is, the hardware still has limits.

While this is true, it is also true that there is always room for better optimization. It's just good that Sonic Team gives a little bit more of a damn this time around when it comes to patching. I remember the ridiculous framerate issues of Sonic 2006 could not have been the work of stressed consoles... then again no amount of patching would ever make that game okay.

Werehog's fur made some of the Night time areas frame suffer, Lol. Spagonia ran perfectly during the day, but during the night in the hub i could detect some slowdown.

Actually I think it would be lack of optimization. As you make your way on to the later levels and some hubs, you can tell where the polish gets thin. Eggmanland and Jungle Joyride have some real framerate and stream loading issues in some areas that would have been fine elsewhere. Slowdown in the Empire City hub is inexplicable as well. However in most cases involving the Werehog, overloading the screen with baddies and move effects are more likely the culprit when it comes to the chugging, not the always present character model's fur. (though I remember how crappy Lost Planet on PC ran when I had fur turn on...but then again that enemy thing was about 1000x bigger than Sonic, and it was a shoddy port.)

Edited March 15, 2009 by Rauzaruke

[lounge]

The Hedgehog Engine is a cutting edge achievment on sonic team's part.

But I prefer a cross between realism and cartoonish graphics quality. They need to tweak the engine if they want to do a different art syle. While global illumination is nice, it's not the only type of lighting system that can be used. Observing the graphics, I can say they used global illum. to the max.

I think it would be cool if they experimented adding in as many different lighting renders as possible without going overboard. I heard they had to use 100's of PC's to get the Hedgehog Engine to render an environment.

I don't think that should be necessary to create amazing graphics. It would be nice to see different graphical capabilities like fur rendering on Tails, and photo realism on environments, environment baking, motion blur, etc.

[7Force]

I think they should use it again, it has a lot going for it but I think Sonic Team should fix any of the slowdown problems and any other bugs that may be in the HE code. And I dont think it should just be used for only Sonic games just think what a next gen NiGHTS game would look like running on it.