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Which sonic has a bigger audience


Djawed

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Sonic Adventure and its sequel were good games. Ergo, you'd likely be lumped with either the 'Classics' or the 'group who likes good games' (I know "Classic fanbois" can even get a bit irate against SA1 and SA2, undeservedly really). :P

I didn't like SA2, the extra gameplay types weren't great. I did enjoy SA1 though. As far as numbers I would say classic fans are a lot closer then people may think, they might not call themselves fans anymore, but their vested interested in a dying series may show otherwise.

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Even the Werehog was a sort-of attempt at drawing in the older-kid/young-teen in providing a pseudo God of War experience.

"Pseudo" would be right. Sort of. I hear the Werehog ripped off God of War's fighting system exactly, without the bits that made GoW interesting. I can't remember which member here said it (I think it was Phos), but he also said that the battle system is crap on its own without the interesting set pieces God of War had and stuff, and after playing the Werehog, I'm inclined to agree. Devil May Cry's system is better and simplier, anyway. Even the GoW director thinks so.

ANYWAYS, BACK ON TOPIC. I must agree with Dread on this one. The bigger audience is children, obviously. But the problem is, well, is that SEGA is pandering too much to one audience at a time these days. Besides the obvious quality problem, this is partly why Sonic isn't doing so well compared to the "old days", where he could appeal to anyone, like Mario, just in a different way. These days, Mario is the absolute master of this cross-demographic appeal in video games (hell, this ideal was the entire point of the Wii, to appeal to everyone). An example outside of games would be One Piece. Actually, quite a lot of manga and anime has this cross-demographic appeal that western cartoons just don't have.

But, in terms of the fanbase, yeah, it's hard to divide it into clear-cut lines, but generally, you either love the old games and hate the new, or dislike the old games and love the new, or generally like all the good games, regardless of new or old. Unfortunately, the latter group isn't easy to spot, because they don't want to get caught in the crossfire of the latest Internet Backdraft.

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I feel that the traditional Sonic gameplay style can appeal to new audiences just as well as classic fans. Just look at the amount of times Sega re-releases the Genesis games, and how much they sell. I don't understand why people differentiate between Sega aiming at children and older fans. If Sega just makes a solid game without "thrown-in" features (regardless of the overall quality of the Werehog, Sega has admitted to using it for the sake of marketing it to young ones), then children are bound to lap it up anyway; there's nothing about the Genesis gameplay style that is inaccessible to newer audiences.

Sega should stop trying to market Sonic to the kids; Sonic is already children's property so they honestly shouldn't have to "try" to do anything, other than make a good game, anyway. And when you think about it, Sega shouldn't even have to be concerned with either audience; the series sells because it's Sonic. It's not like they have to go out of their way to make it marketable or anything.

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I feel that the traditional Sonic gameplay style can appeal to new audiences just as well as classic fans. Just look at the amount of times Sega re-releases the Genesis games, and how much they sell. I don't understand why people differentiate between Sega aiming at children and older fans. If Sega just makes a solid game without "thrown-in" features (regardless of the overall quality of the Werehog, Sega has admitted to using it for the sake of marketing it to young ones), then children are bound to lap it up anyway; there's nothing about the Genesis gameplay style that is inaccessible to newer audiences.

Sega should stop trying to market Sonic to the kids; Sonic is already children's property so they honestly shouldn't have to "try" to do anything, other than make a good game, anyway.

This. Like Mario, Sonic never needed to "try" to appeal to so many, he just did. Unfortunately, SEGA misses this point completely.

Edited by The Sniper
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Hey, I was pretty discerning about my games when I was a kid... And that thing I bolded sounds like a reason for us as kids to like it.

I suppose, but you couldn't understand exacly why that was as a kid. I was always amazed that I could reach some new part if I explored enough. I only understood how much good and how much thoughtful the level design was later.

For example, and just something fleetingly, there's this row of mechanic balls in Flying Battery that go up to the ceiling when electricity runs, except one at the single end. Though I understood why it happened, as a kid, I always thought "dick move" when I went past there and that was about it, but only later understood the detail of the programmers. The same with the looping levels like Metropolis or IceCap. As a kid, you know that they are repeating, but only when you're older and actually understand some programming or at least inspect the level layouts is your mind blown. There're a lot of these to me.

Edited by redmenace
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"Pseudo" would be right. Sort of. I hear the Werehog ripped off God of War's fighting system exactly, without the bits that made GoW interesting. I can't remember which member here said it (I think it was Phos), but he also said that the battle system is crap on its own without the interesting set pieces God of War had and stuff, and after playing the Werehog, I'm inclined to agree. Devil May Cry's system is better and simplier, anyway. Even the GoW director thinks so.

Indeed.

I recently found out that the swinging mechanic isn't even original. You can see it in action in Gametrailer's review of the GoW collection.

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You would think mario games at our(my) age would be totally childish and lame but i see friends grownups coming with dses to school playing new mario bros. Sonic is nowhere to be found

Nostalgia has a strong hold. That issue gets even bigger when a company is able to successfully capitalize on a franchise so that it is still the thing to be enjoyed by the next generation (Mario is 28 years old, Sonic is 18). Let me put it another way: objectively compare in modern terms Sonic the Hedgehog and Super Mario World, and it still holds true that if you have been spoiled by Sonic, Mario is boring as heck to play (and this does not even account for the childishness factor, which Mario definitely excels in to this day). Right now I am recalling that Treasure, the geniuses who brought us Gunstar Heroes and Dynamite Headdy, also released a game featuring the mascot characters of the McDonald's fast-food chain - the point here being that cheese can fall as a reviewing factor if the game is fun to play. And then there is the fact that Sega, after learning from their mistakes with the Saturn, had nevertheless fallen to the point-of-no-return and were forced to exit when the Sony juggernaut restarted, while Nintendo is set up for a repeat of their success in the 80s and 90s on a much wider scale due to the huge increase in their audience (honestly, with all the features of the Wii and DS, if you are a gamer in the least, Nintendo has something to offer you - which is why I think Sega would be better off sticking closer to Nintendo than Microsoft or Sony). All this is speculation, of course, but I think everything I have mentioned at least partially factors in. As for which Sonic has a bigger audience these days, it is definitely the modern - the kind that rode to newfound success in the early 21st century under exclusive support from Nintendo. Sega not only needs to account for the fans, but for the audience of the consoles; after all, I for one think it is still possible for Sonic to keep gaining new fans like Mario is apparently doing.

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But it is true that more people loved sonic back in the days even if he sells more taday... obviously since gaming is a much bigger thing today.

I didnt really get your whole post, it was kind of messy there. But i understood that you tried to explain why mario was still big today. And that being because of nostalgia.

Mario today is a brand. Have you seen those t shirt, sweaters lately. Their big and people seem to find it awesome throughout all ages. You know why? Because everyone understands it. Everyone has a mario game at home and enjoy it. Theyre not afraid of sharing it becuase nobody is alone with the opinion.

Maybe this example aint right but it does make sense in a way:

Let's say you have a confession and when you confess, all of a sudden everyone else shares the same problem and now that everything is out nobody is ashamed of it anymore.

Spongebob for instance. I love spongebob but i never knew that there were so many sharing the same opinion. And a few days ago I noticed that spongebob is loved by almost everyone.

Sonic used to have the same thing.. he was building it with every game that came out. The shows werent as embarassing as sonic x. And sonic's status was good.

That is not the case today. It is embarassing to say that i am a sonic fan because it's "gay". When people call me a sonic fan in public I cant help but feel ashamed.

Even though it has come this far i still have hopes for SEGA/Sonicteam. I still really love the franchise. Just like how unleashed had my full support back then(too bad it wasn't what i expected), i support everything that will come in the future all the way.

Needlemouse is a perfect way to prove us they still can do what they did back than. Seriously if they screw this up. Than that's it. It will be clear that sonicteam doesn't have it anymore.

But it could also be everything sonic once was. All star racing seems shape up nicely. And from there they can also learn a lot from it and bring that into a new 3d game. If my predictions are right i think SEGA/Sonicteam will notice where the big cash comes from.

Quality baby!

Edited by Jaouad
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As far as which might be bigger... whatever the kids are on. THAT's what is going to be bigger, as sega is marketing towards them. As far as cutting the base about, you simply can't. I'm 27 years old. I played every sonic game since 91. But I'm a fan of the 3D stuff. It just appeals more to me. so honestly I don't think there is a new vs old school.... because if THAT's the case, what the hell am I then? I'm NOT new, but the old stuff I grew up on... I seen better, and therefor I want better.

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...

Yeah, you got the gist of what I was trying to say. Seems I did throw a bunch of ideas there in no particular order. You made some good points as well, but in the end, all of it - from the Genesis and SatAM to Sonic X and Needlemouse - is subjective. Gaming got bigger since the early 1990s, sure, and Sonic definitely seems to have had two golden ages: 1992-1994, and 1999-2003, and while both need to be accounted for, I would say that if there be a need to weigh heavier towards one, the latter is more applicable today.

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