Michael Jackson and Sonic 3. It's finally confirmed

[batson]

Michael Jackson did help compose the music for Sonic 3. And he did intentionally re-use the music written for the Sonic 3 ending theme in Stranger in Moscow.

http://vgmdb.net/forums/showthread.php?t=3511

I think most of us were already convinced that all this stuff was true, but it's nice to have a confirmation, if only because it will finally shut up the few people who still refused to believe it (such as certain Sonic haters who seem to think that this "rumor" was something started by the Sonic fanbase in order to make Sonic come of as bigger or cooler than he actually is/was).

[Tornado]

No doubt people will continue to ignore this like they did the first time it was proven. And the second time. And the third.

Edited December 3, 2009 by Tornado

[Djawed]

so he wasnt happy with the quality result. I think it worked out nicely but its true that sega genesis wasnt like snes. Allthough sometimes games like streets of rage really proved the oposite. I think Michael jackson was wrong, his music sounds awesome.

Edited December 3, 2009 by Jaouad

[Dr. SEGA Monkey]

Finally! And very cool that the Sonic 3 credits song was the ORIGINAL version of Stranger in Moscow.

But why didn't he like the sound chip? Did he honestly think he was going to get CD quality music on the Genesis? Even the SNES had synthy sounding music.

[Tornado]

Wait a minute...

At the time, game consoles did not allow an optimal sound reproduction, and Michael found it frustrating. He did not want to be associated with a product that devalued his music...

Edited December 3, 2009 by Tornado

[Dr. SEGA Monkey]

Tornado, I think the difference is that Jackson didn't actually make those MIDI versions from Moonwalker. They might've been done by someone else. So he didn't feel responsible. And plus, those songs already existed in much higher quality, so....

Edited December 3, 2009 by Dr. SEGA Monkey

[Marcello]

I never knew that this was only a rumour. I read it in EGM in a SA2 special, and just believed it xD. But I thought he ended up not doing it because of the child abuse scandal?

[Tornado]

I never knew that this was only a rumour.

It isn't. Its been confirmed multiple times over the past few years, but people still refuse to believe it. This is the first time I've heard that the music may be uncredited/removed due to not being up to snuff for Jackson, but I don't think I buy that reasoning. Even ignoring the Moonwalker thing, for which Dr. SEGA Monkey's explanation is reasonable; I don't see why Jackson would do the whole soundtrack and only then realize that the sound chip might not be acceptable.

Edited December 3, 2009 by Tornado

[Marcello]

Oops, I meant thought to be a rumour xD.

[Wyde]

But why didn't he like the sound chip? Did he honestly think he was going to get CD quality music on the Genesis

Not everyone likes 'dem chip tunes, and I can't imagine the genre was/is particularly audience appreciated on anywhere near the same level as general popular music, or the stuff Michael was producing elsewhere. Author's are allowed to dislike their works, I'd think, especially in a less familiar medium.

[Phos]

It isn't. Its been confirmed multiple times over the past few years, but people still refuse to believe it. This is the first time I've heard that the music may be uncredited/removed due to not being up to snuff for Jackson, but I don't think I buy that reasoning. Even ignoring the Moonwalker thing, for which Dr. SEGA Monkey's explanation is reasonable; I don't see why Jackson would do the whole soundtrack and only then realize that the sound chip might not be acceptable.

The question was whether or not his music was still in the final game, which it is, because there's a sample taken straight from Jam, and Howard Drossin's only tracks are the S&K ones that replace the title, invincibility, Knuckles's theme, and the boss themes. Not Doomsday, though, that wasn't made by Drossin.

[NinMicroSega]

*SIGH* There are still skeptics:

http://www.tssznews.com/2009/12/03/horowitz-on-sonic-3-jackson-comments-nothings-proven/

Horowitz is always late to the party, though. The only thing I applaud him for is interviewing Greg Johnson, but that doesn't seem like much of a challenge seeing how Mr. Johnson is very open as it is.

Also, somebody please explain this quote in question:

"Dear Everyone – YOU’RE TOO SLOWWWW.

Yes sorry about this but everyones getting all excited about Michael Jackson’s involvement with the Sonic 3 soundtrack again being confirmed and its gotten to the point where my sickly brain is a bit fed up of it. So to all the investigative journalists out there here’s a tip.

Load up SEGA Mega Drive Ultimate Collection / Sonic’s Ultimate Genesis Collection.

Highlight Sonic 3.

Go to the museum.

Scroll to the bottom of the Did You Know section.

YOU-A WINNARZ! >_<"

Let's get this out of the way: I OWN THE FREAKING COMPILATION. I just hate it with a passion and don't feel like loading it up. I'll explain in a future rant why I hate it (or not).

One last thing: AAUK needs to start working on good games or convince SEGA to make good games. Seriously.

[Badnik Zero]

I always felt it was mostly MJ's music (how else could we explain it being so good), but it's nice to have more confirmation of this, since there was always room for doubt. As for why he would make music for a project and not put his name on it... Maybe he didn't want those songs credited to him because he wanted to use them again (and that's what he did). However good the Sonic 3 credits are, MJ probably would've liked it to be another big song rather than "that video game track he did". Well, if he didn't like the quality I'm sure he'd be happy to know it's some of the longest lasting game music of the '90s. I know S3&K is my favorite Sonic music of all time. ALL TIME.

[Phos]

This seems to be the most likely list of tracks that Jackson composed:

title

Knuckles's Theme

Invincibility

Mid-Boss

Carnival Night Zone 1&2

Ice Cap Zone 1&2

Launch Base Zone 1&2

Game Complete - maybe

Credits

They've all been replaced in one place or another, basically.

[Dr. Good Girl]

I thought it was pretty much legit that he was involved. I always just though that those skeptics were just cranky and needed a nappy.

The video convinced me enough to beleive it to be true.

Am I right? Or am I right?

Edited December 4, 2009 by Dr. Good Girl

[Dreadknux]

*SIGH* There are still skeptics:

http://www.tssznews.com/2009/12/03/horowitz-on-sonic-3-jackson-comments-nothings-proven/

Horowitz is always late to the party, though. The only thing I applaud him for is interviewing Greg Johnson, but that doesn't seem like much of a challenge seeing how Mr. Johnson is very open as it is.

I don't really see why this guy has any credibility in saying he has doubts over me, you or John from up the road. He's done some great stuff but at the end of the day, he just runs a fansite. A very respectable one, yes, but so is TSS. Does his or my opinion effectively counter Buxer's comments, or is it particularly newsworthy? I'd say no. It seems pretty clear that someone who was actually involved in Sonic 3's music production and very close to Michael Jackson would know what actually happened, ignoring the whole "MJ didn't like the soundchip" thing for a second (which is a bit of a strawman to be honest, who cares if he liked the soundchip or not - doesn't negate the other things said).

Also, somebody please explain this quote in question:

"Dear Everyone – YOU’RE TOO SLOWWWW.

Yes sorry about this but everyones getting all excited about Michael Jackson’s involvement with the Sonic 3 soundtrack again being confirmed and its gotten to the point where my sickly brain is a bit fed up of it. So to all the investigative journalists out there here’s a tip.

Load up SEGA Mega Drive Ultimate Collection / Sonic’s Ultimate Genesis Collection.

Highlight Sonic 3.

Go to the museum.

Scroll to the bottom of the Did You Know section.

YOU-A WINNARZ! >_<"

Let's get this out of the way: I OWN THE FREAKING COMPILATION. I just hate it with a passion and don't feel like loading it up. I'll explain in a future rant why I hate it (or not).

One last thing: AAUK needs to start working on good games or convince SEGA to make good games. Seriously.

I can't speak for what AAUK said (and lay off him, he's a Community Manager [and thus doesn't make the games himself, silly ] and he does a damn fine job of looking after us), but the museum actually states that Michael Jackson "was going to" create the soundtrack to Sonic 3, not that he specifically did. There's a GamesTM article from a few months back that people say 'confirmed' MJ's association, but that too said - in no uncertain terms - that Michael wrote the soundtrack and it never got used. That part, in bold, is the key to the dispute, not that MJ had anything to do with the game or not. That much is pretty certain at this point, and patronising to argue for or against.

What we're talking about here, is a confirmation that Michael's music actually ended up in the game. The compilation suggests nothing of the sort. The GamesTM article specifically states that MJ's music was removed before the game's release. Here is the first solid confirmation - and using the ending credits theme as a specific example - of his music being inside the game itself. And it came from someone who would actually know about these things. The source (barring MJ, of course).

And whatchoo talking about, Willis? That compilation is AWESOME. Play Phantasy Star IV and Shining Force II. Like, now.

[Flyboy Fox]

I'm actually getting mighty cheesed at all the people who isolate the few awesome SEGA-related folks who lurk/post in the fan community, demanding that they 'make' SEGA make 'better' games. Joking or not, I don't think people realize how big a corporation like SEGA is and how impossible it would be for one person to really change anything - especially given how subjective 'good' is anyway! Who are you to dictate how a game should be to be 'good' anyway? These people work for SEGA for a reason - they're talented and awesome. (And, like Dread said, not everyone in SEGA is actively involved in MAKING the games). Hey, ain't it enough that these good folks drop by and check out the fan community in the first place? Give 'em a break!

Sorry, rant over. I understand that a lot of it's just teasing, which is fair play, but I do see some antagonism going on in some threads when SEGA folk come around, and it irks me.

[goku262002]

Cool, even though its old we do have a topic for this.

Anyways, I'm necrobumping for a reason. today Gametrailers released another episode of its Pop Fiction series and while Sonic mysteries is nothing new, they finally did their own investigation on MJ's involvement with Sonic 3. and by what Retro is saying there is new evidence that backs up the claims of MJ's involvement.

check it out.

[TheOcelot]

I can't help but wonder if the Sega Mega CD console had been a success and Sonic Team had decided to create Sonic 3 exclusively for that console (which was considered at one point), then Michael Jackson could have created a CD quality soundtrack for the game. I am sure MJ would have been much happier with the Mega CD.

 

Sonic 3&K is still a great game though with a lovely soundtrack. I do wonder if the lack of re-releases it has had (compared to Sonic 1, 2 & CD) is mainly down to rights issues with the soundtrack.

Edited October 4, 2013 by -Bender-

[Phos]

The lingering doubt that I have with the story saying that Michael Jackson didn't like the result is moonwalker, but I guess with that game it was adaptations of tracks most people would already have heard.

If it is true, well first off I suspect that their inside source was Mark Cerny because he was the go between Sonic Team and the rest of STI, but I also I kinda doubt that it was Ice Cap Zone or any of the stage themes that got him to drop from the project, more likely it was how the title theme and Knuckles's theme ended up.

I know Jun Senoe composed what I think was described as a "bonus theme" but I've never been able to tell if that means special stage or bonus stage.

[StaticMania]

Wait a minute...

This is a port of an Arcade game.

[Cyclone T-301]

Sonic 3&K is still a great game though with a lovely soundtrack. I do wonder if the lack of re-releases it has had (compared to Sonic 1, 2 & CD) is mainly down to rights issues with the soundtrack.

 

I think it was re-released various times: Mega Collection; Ultimate Genesis Collection; Classic Collection; VC; Steam.

Still, if at some point it was speculated that Earthbound wouldn't arrive to Wii U because of the legal issues with the music, I also wonder if something similar could happen here in a future. But despite that, Sonic 3&K didn't seem to have problems in the past.

 

I know Jun Senoe composed what I think was described as a "bonus theme" but I've never been able to tell if that means special stage or bonus stage.

 

Senoue composed this one, the gumball machine. It was found (oddly) in Sonic 3D Blast.

 

[iDEATH]

How many times can this be brought up and still be considered news?

[Rexeljet]

Senoue composed this one, the gumball machine. It was found (oddly) in Sonic 3D Blast.

 

 

I think Senoue composed all 3, but the gumball machine is definitely the one that seems the most like his work. (I'm sure I remember him saying somewhere that his favourite track in Sonic 3 was the "glowing orbs" bonus stage) Aside from jingles, I believe these were the only tracks he did for the game.

[Badnik Mechanic]

How many times can this be brought up and still be considered news?

 

Is this news?

 

Does Sega own Ray and Mighty?