Is Sega intentionally shipteasing us?

[Blazey Firekitty]

B: Do you think that you were brought here for a reason?

S: Brought here? By who?

B: By the Emeralds.

Considering that Tails had just finished talking about how the Emeralds seemed to be trying to help them...

Meh, I don't see it. The whole deal with the Emeralds could be viewed as Sonic and Blaze being a "destiny couple", but I don't think it was on purpose. Maybe, though.

Heh, I see your point.XD I guess it could be that Sega's not teasing on purpose, but that just gets attached to people so easily that her feelings tend to come across as somewhat romantic. I suppose that's what happens when you're emotionally repressed for so long.

[Sega DogTagz]

Meh, I don't see it. The whole deal with the Emeralds could be viewed as Sonic and Blaze being a "destiny couple", but I don't think it was on purpose. Maybe, though.

Isn't seeding the idea of a destiny couple while not fully explaining the concept a form of shipteasing?

Sega left an awful lot of stuff on the table for us to interpret there, as they seem to do with everything.

[Unknownlight]

Isn't seeding the idea of a destiny couple while not fully explaining the concept a form of shipteasing?

Yes, but I don't think that it was on purpose by Sega. But I may be wrong.

[Sega DogTagz]

Yes, but I don't think that it was on purpose by Sega. But I may be wrong.

Fair enough. I would have to think that someone on some level within Sonic Team would have put 2 and 2 together on this one though.

How do we go about justifying "on purpose" anyway? I gotta go get Sega on speed-dial or something,

[Unknownlight]

How do we go about justifying "on purpose" anyway? I gotta go get Sega on speed-dial or something,

We don't. We just make guesses based on the fact that these games are marketed to kids. =/

[Daisoku]

Sonic is just like "Heh, well, you never know!" and that's a pretty good ship-tease if I say so myself.

I read that as strip-tease.

x.x

Edit: To add something to my post, Sonic is a stud. In pretty much every game, at least 1 person is shipped with another.(Apart from 1. But that could be EggyxSonic)

Uhh, SA2 - Sonadow (not that I'm complaining- /shot/), Shadaria, Knuxouge, Shadouge

SU - Sonamy

SatBK - Sonaze, Sonamy

SR/A - Sonaze

This is a pretty fail list, but I'm tired and can't really be bothered to list them all.

Edited December 12, 2009 by Daisoku

[redmenace]

About the blush, I usually blush when someone holds a door for me, even old ugly people. It's not a true hint. I'd say Caliburn's line is far more teasing than her blush is, but then again, Sonic is not flustered by it either and deals with it easily. Therefore, no feelings seem to be involved, at least from HIS part. Hers, who knows, maybe she's embarassed that she had to be saved, grateful, or crushing on him. It's not obvious though.

I suppose that the whole "destiny couple" could be seen as shipteasing. But then we remember that Sonic is what HE wants to be, not what cosmic forces him to be, and the idea is shot down mercilessly. To me, this "destiny couple", completely contradicts Sonic's trait nature and view in life.

I think Sonic has made it a point that his philosophy goes by the tune "It doesn't matter". Blaze's viewpoint is not some overbearing focus that could keep him away. Time and time again he has instilled the same principles in the people around him as he expects of himself (with several characters). To say that he cannot accept her individual viewpoint is against his own nature. Sonic accepts everyone the way they are, that's just the way he is.

He can try to lighten her up, but if you believe that her abrasive mindset was so detrimental to him than I would have to ask how in the world you believe that Sonic would have been able to stay chummy with characters 100X more confrontational than her in Knuckles, Shadow and Amy?

Sonic might be easy going and forgiving, but there are certain lines that he won’t let anyone cross. Blaze wanted Eggman finished. Sonic would never accept this, even if it was Tails saying the same. Sonic is not a doormat, quite the contrary. He lives by his own desires and he never, ever sacrifices them.

Why would he try to lighten her up? He’s the type that doesn’t care about deepening or strengthening any relationship, whatever happens, happens. People already whine that he doesn’t seem to care about Tails because of this trait and you believe that he’d stop and try changing Blaze of all people? When he hasn’t tried to change Eggman? I'm sure there's a lot more challenge there than in bothering someone who is bound by responsabilities anyway. In fact, I don't think he cares about other people's motivation, as long as his is served.

Knuckles and Shadow present an ability challenge for Sonic and therefore fun. Amy doesn’t really give him a choice in being there or not, she just is. Blaze isn’t a) a rival, stalking him. Why would he bother with her except when their paths cross? From what we’ve seen, that’s when he bothers with anyone, including Tails. I’ve never seen him visit anyone because he felt like it. He might though, I don’t doubt it. But if it has never been shown towards the main cast, why would they try and show him doing this with Blaze? It doesn’t make sense.

To me, it seems alot closer to two inventors going after the same goal. On the outside, people may view their methods as different, but when you get down to it there can be more similarities than some people are willing to give them credit for.

Different =/= Opposite anyway. If Blaze was Sonic's opposite, than not only would she lack Sonic's ego (which she clearly doesn't - not to mention her pride) but she also would not be so enthralled in ideology (which she also clearly is).

I don't know why everyone is so quick to staple them to opposite thing. There is alot there that is reflected in the same light between the two. Is they any difference in their intentions? No. Is there any question to their morals? Of course not. I would argue that in the places that matter most, Sonic and Blaze are cut for the same cloth. Where they are opposed only spices things up.

Anyone can go out and find a few opposites between characters. That doesn't make them "opposites". For goodness sake Tails is more opposite to Sonic than Blaze is. He is Orange.

If you still cant get over the oppositions between the two, then just look to Tails. He is basically Sonic's opposite in nearly every way. Those to get along pretty good, eh.

Of course everyone is never a complete opposite of another, but their motivations are completely opposites. I can’t see what’s so interesting about one character brooding about her responsibilities and the other happily yelling, what responsibilities? I can’t even understand how these two characters would be able to spend five minutes together in a room without Sonic bolting away bored or Blaze frying Sonic out of frustration. I guess people really like this bickering thing between two characters, but like I said, it was already old one hundred years ago.

Er… why are we equating the colours of their fur into this?

Tails idolizes Sonic. That’s one of the differences.

Well, the difference is that Knuckles (Usually) isn't emotionally distraught over his role in life. Those times that he is are based on the notion that he misses his people, not that he hates his life of solitude. Knux has never gone on a "You don't understand the kind of hell I've been through!" rant like Blaze did in Sonic Rush. I guess in that sense one could say that Blaze is as much Shadow as she is Knuckles, in terms of her role, what with being robbed of a normal life and being resentful for it.

Like I said, Blaze is a cross between Knuckles and Shadow, with a couple of extra features to make her somewhat distinct (many of them copied from Sonic). She's... redundant. I suppose I could see Blaze being more interesting if she was more different than what she was in the Rush series.

[TheGerkuman]

I'm pretty sure they were setting up some attraction between Knuckles and Rouge in Sonic Adventure 2. Then of course, when they saw a proportion of the fanbase going ga-ga for Shadow and Rouge, they decided to turn it into a hinted love triangle.( I'm still cross with them for that, strangely).

Still, at least Sonic X gave us some visible attraction between Rouge and Knuckles, and Vector's crush on Vanilla was adorable. Poor Big though, he has no-one. (And if anyone suggests BigXFroggy I will hit them with this candy cane)

Edited December 12, 2009 by Gerkuman

[Unknownlight]

About the blush, I usually blush when someone holds a door for me, even old ugly people. It's not a true hint. I'd say Caliburn's line is far more teasing than her blush is, but then again, Sonic is not flustered by it either and deals with it easily. Therefore, no feelings seem to be involved, at least from HIS part. Hers, who knows, maybe she's embarassed that she had to be saved, grateful, or crushing on him. It's not obvious though.

Yes, actually, it is. This is not real life, where emotions are complex and hard to understand by an outsider. This is the Sonic Universe, written by writers that are told to make things as obvious and uncomplicated as possible. Blaze's blush meant a very specific thing.

[Blazey Firekitty]

Sonic might be easy going and forgiving, but there are certain lines that he won’t let anyone cross. Blaze wanted Eggman finished. Sonic would never accept this, even if it was Tails saying the same. Sonic is not a doormat, quite the contrary. He lives by his own desires and he never, ever sacrifices them.

Nothing about Sonic's interactions with Blaze suggests that he's a doormat. His first reaction was to deal with her through physical force, because he felt it was necessary. Sonic didn't sacrifice any of his personal principles to reach out to Blaze. He just tried to talk her down once he realized she was more than just a wall of rage.

Why would he try to lighten her up? He’s the type that doesn’t care about deepening or strengthening any relationship, whatever happens, happens. People already whine that he doesn’t seem to care about Tails because of this trait and you believe that he’d stop and try changing Blaze of all people? When he hasn’t tried to change Eggman? I'm sure there's a lot more challenge there than in bothering someone who is bound by responsabilities anyway. In fact, I don't think he cares about other people's motivation, as long as his is served.

Whether or not it's consistent with Sonic's character is perhaps debatable, but Sonic has tried to change Blaze during the Rush games, trying to get her to be herself and trying to get her to avoid self-destructive behavior, mostly involving her temper.

I mean, I don't feel that we can say for sure that Sonic is romantically interested in Blaze. But if he really didn't care at all about her personal well being, he wouldn't be saying stuff like "As long as you have the power of friendship, the Sol Emeralds will never lose their glow," or "You've got to keep a level head, who will protect your people if something happens to you?"

Besides, Blaze wants to change. I mean, she doesn't want to shirk her responsibilities, but she acts cold and distant because she feels that she has to, not for fun, and I'd imagine she'd enjoy any chance to be a more emotionally open without fear of failing in her mission or of social backlash.

Of course everyone is never a complete opposite of another, but their motivations are completely opposites. I can’t see what’s so interesting about one character brooding about her responsibilities and the other happily yelling, what responsibilities? I can’t even understand how these two characters would be able to spend five minutes together in a room without Sonic bolting away bored or Blaze frying Sonic out of frustration. I guess people really like this bickering thing between two characters, but like I said, it was already old one hundred years ago.

But Blaze is not an unfeeling blob of rage. And like I said before, her coldness is a result of personal trauma, not something she does because she enjoys it. She enjoys Sonic's company when she can get it, and she's deeply emotional and deeply lonely beneath her facade of being this emotionless killing machine.

Like I said, Blaze is a cross between Knuckles and Shadow, with a couple of extra features to make her somewhat distinct (many of them copied from Sonic). She's... redundant. I suppose I could see Blaze being more interesting if she was more different than what she was in the Rush series.

I can kind of see where you're coming from...Perhaps she'd come across as more unique if she were played up more as "shy, magic-using tomboy princess" more than "Sonic's rival/counterpart."

[redmenace]

Yes, actually, it is. This is not real life, where emotions are complex and hard to understand by an outsider. This is the Sonic Universe, written by writers that are told to make things as obvious and uncomplicated as possible. Blaze's blush meant a very specific thing.

What? Embarassement, awe (I've seen this done countless times in anime without romantic overtones), surprise, love? It does not automatically imply she has romantic feelings for him. And his aloof answer definetly says he has none for her.

Nothing about Sonic's interactions with Blaze suggests that he's a doormat. His first reaction was to deal with her through physical force, because he felt it was necessary. Sonic didn't sacrifice any of his personal principles to reach out to Blaze. He just tried to talk her down once he realized she was more than just a wall of rage.

I have no idea why are you answering to this, when it has nothing to do with the point the other guy and I were discussing. What you're saying is that Sonic did not sacrifice his views. I said exacly the same. I do not get what you're trying to say.

Whether or not it's consistent with Sonic's character is perhaps debatable, but Sonic has tried to change Blaze during the Rush games, trying to get her to be herself and trying to get her to avoid self-destructive behavior, mostly involving her temper.

He has displayed this behaviour while their paths crossed. Like he tried to "change" and befriend many characters he encountered, most notably, Shadow. Deciding on a fine day to go and visit her to change her views is not what Sonic is about, and that's what I was defending. He has not displayed this behaviour with anyone, why would he display with Blaze? Again, I see no reason why you're answering to this. It's not even tangent as to what we were discussing.

I mean, I don't feel that we can say for sure that Sonic is romantically interested in Blaze. But if he really didn't care at all about her personal well being, he wouldn't be saying stuff like "As long as you have the power of friendship, the Sol Emeralds will never lose their glow," or "You've got to keep a level head, who will protect your people if something happens to you?"

Sonic has said variants of that to everyone. These are not romantic at all. I spy with my little eye, the word friendship in there as well.

Besides, Blaze wants to change. I mean, she doesn't want to shirk her responsibilities, but she acts cold and distant because she feels that she has to, not for fun, and I'd imagine she'd enjoy any chance to be a more emotionally open without fear of failing in her mission or of social backlash.

Yes that's all very pretty, if the series were named after Blaze and it was a psychological thriller, not Sonic the platformer. Also, Sonic is not needed for anything you enumerate either. I'd respect her more as well, if she didn't need an emotional romantic crutch to support her as she grows as a character.

But Blaze is not an unfeeling blob of rage. And like I said before, her coldness is a result of personal trauma, not something she does because she enjoys it. She enjoys Sonic's company when she can get it, and she's deeply emotional and deeply lonely beneath her facade of being this emotionless killing machine.

Characters can be romantically incompatible even if they are decently characterized by themselves. I don't understand your point.

I can kind of see where you're coming from...Perhaps she'd come across as more unique if she were played up more as "shy, magic-using tomboy princess" more than "Sonic's rival/counterpart."

Urgh tomboy princess... Please no. At least that they got right.

To be honest, I can't understand what you're trying to say half the time. It seems you're defending Blaze and her behaviour instead of replying the romantic statements. That's not what was being discussed. I have not doubted her behaviour or her friendship.

[Blazey Firekitty]

@redmenace: My apologies. It appears I jumped into the discussion too late, and without reading all the necessary posts. Again, my apologies for my misunderstanding.

[Unknownlight]

What? Embarassement, awe (I've seen this done countless times in anime without romantic overtones), surprise, love? It does not automatically imply she has romantic feelings for him. And his aloof answer definetly says he has none for her.

With Caliburn's quote in mind, it was obviously meant as a shiptease. There's no argument here.

[Sega DogTagz]

Whoo, go to work and come back to a landslide.

I suppose that the whole "destiny couple" could be seen as shipteasing. But then we remember that Sonic is what HE wants to be, not what cosmic forces him to be, and the idea is shot down mercilessly. To me, this "destiny couple", completely contradicts Sonic's trait nature and view in life.

The portrait in Hidden Palace Zone begs to differ.

Who's to say that destiny will not parallel with what Sonic wants at various times? Who's to say that destiny has not already considered Sonic's whims and acts more as a premonition rather than a guide?

We don't know the scope of this destiny couple so it would be wrong to state it as a contradiction to Sonic. We do not know the role destiny plays until the event actually happens, such is the fallacy of dissecting destiny. All we know is that is some shape or form, the Chaos and Sol emeralds are willing their users together. Nothing contradicting about it.

Why would he try to lighten her up? He’s the type that doesn’t care about deepening or strengthening any relationship, whatever happens, happens. People already whine that he doesn’t seem to care about Tails because of this trait and you believe that he’d stop and try changing Blaze of all people? When he hasn’t tried to change Eggman? I'm sure there's a lot more challenge there than in bothering someone who is bound by responsabilities anyway. In fact, I don't think he cares about other people's motivation, as long as his is served.

As BlazyB. said, Sonic has already taken several stabs at molding Blaze. More-so infact, than with any other character. He seems quite insistent on strengthening their bond actually.

Of course everyone is never a complete opposite of another, but their motivations are completely opposites. I can’t see what’s so interesting about one character brooding about her responsibilities and the other happily yelling, what responsibilities? I can’t even understand how these two characters would be able to spend five minutes together in a room without Sonic bolting away bored or Blaze frying Sonic out of frustration. I guess people really like this bickering thing between two characters, but like I said, it was already old one hundred years ago.

If you cant understand how they can endure each others company than why are you commenting on things you know you don't understand?

The fact of the matter is, while their motivations are different, lately both Sonic and Blaze are nearly always on the same page. Marine was a great example of this. Scolding her was the right thing to do so Sonic stood aside. While you guess why people like the bickering, I am scratching my head as to why people try to attach so many generic stereotypes to these two. Blaze and Sonic do not bicker as of late. In fact they always seem to leave on smiles and physical contact (which is quite significant considering that Sonic often offers his longtime friends nothing more than a "see-ya").

besides, Blaze hardly broods. Its more like Boils

Er… why are we equating the colours of their fur into this?

Tails idolizes Sonic. That’s one of the differences.

Orange is the artistic opposite of blue. Just thought I would throw that in there to show how "opposite" Tails is. Citing Blaze's "opposite-ness" as an issue to Sonic is a mute point considering that the most opposite character to Sonic in the entire series happens to be his best friend.

While Tails may idolize Sonic, Blaze certainly respects him too. The ending of Sonic Rush shows us that she holds his words and memory in high regard and he is defiantly the only person she has really opened up around. It may not be idolization, but its not too far either.

Sonic has said variants of that to everyone. These are not romantic at all. I spy with my little eye, the word friendship in there as well.

That is exactly what we keep coming back to. Yes, Sonic pushes around this kind of behavior on a ton of other characters, but at the same time few if any have reacted in a similar manner to Blaze. She has already decided to change a fundamental part of herself to accept what Sonic had to say at face value. She is really the only character to do so on his whim. Yes, the friendship is there, but at the same time we all know that friendship usually is the base to something more.

Sega has not made it blatantly clear that Blaze and Sonic could be together. But with as many puzzle pieces that we have been given I would say that "shipteasing" is a fair conclusion. Even for people whom wouldn't think the two could even work in a relationship have to look at the stack of evidence to see that Sega simply left a door open for us to make our own conclusions.

[redmenace]

With Caliburn's quote in mind, it was obviously meant as a shiptease. There's no argument here.

Caliburn says something that is considered shipteasing (no doubt about that) and Sonic brushes it off easily. It's almost as if they're lampshading the thing. Yeah, we get it that people pair them up but really, he doesn't give a shit. And it's true, HE (at least) brushes it off like it was nothing. I take some of his overreacting to Amy's obnoxious behaviour far more telling than this.

The portrait in Hidden Palace Zone begs to differ.

Who's to say that destiny will not parallel with what Sonic wants at various times? Who's to say that destiny has not already considered Sonic's whims and acts more as a premonition rather than a guide?

We don't know the scope of this destiny couple so it would be wrong to state it as a contradiction to Sonic. We do not know the role destiny plays until the event actually happens, such is the fallacy of dissecting destiny. All we know is that is some shape or form, the Chaos and Sol emeralds are willing their users together. Nothing contradicting about it.

People never get the difference. It's not Sonic's responsability to fight Eggman, he could very well walk away from the fight. Yet he choose to fight, because he's the designated hero (it's always like this...), and past Sonic Adventure, he can't let it slide because of his strong sense of justice and freedom. The whole thing is based around who HE IS. Romantic feelings are adquired, it's not part of Sonic's personality. I cannot see how destiny in being a hero correlates to destiny in being paired off with someone (and yuck by the way). Besides, both Sonic and Shadow have said "screw destiny" more than once. They're the makers of their own destiny, even if by going by their personalities we can see how that destiny is going to be.

As BlazyB. said, Sonic has already taken several stabs at molding Blaze. More-so infact, than with any other character. He seems quite insistent on strengthening their bond actually.

And I said, while their paths crossed. He has done this with everyone. Also, Sonic only bothers while their philosphy is opposite of his and conflicts with the fight at hand. Then he doesn't care anymore, aka Shadow.

If you cant understand how they can endure each others company than why are you commenting on things you know you don't understand?

I said, that I could not understand how two characters with such different views could stand each other romantically. This bickering couple thing, is one of the twelve myths of Love fiction, it has been studied, books have been published aroun it and that it simply does not work in the long run. I'm not talking without knowing. But ofcourse, you're flamebaiting, logic isn't part of the equation here.

The fact of the matter is, while their motivations are different, lately both Sonic and Blaze are nearly always on the same page. Marine was a great example of this. Scolding her was the right thing to do so Sonic stood aside. While you guess why people like the bickering, I am scratching my head as to why people try to attach so many generic stereotypes to these two. Blaze and Sonic do not bicker as of late. In fact they always seem to leave on smiles and physical contact (which is quite significant considering that Sonic often offers his longtime friends nothing more than a "see-ya").

Lately? Rush Adventure was two years ago. Black Knight? They hardly talked there. Everything else are cameos and unlockables. The right thing or not, Sonic simply does not care. You give him too much credit.

Orange is the artistic opposite of blue. Just thought I would throw that in there to show how "opposite" Tails is. Citing Blaze's "opposite-ness" as an issue to Sonic is a mute point considering that the most opposite character to Sonic in the entire series happens to be his best friend.

Actually, Tails is not orange since the classic series. He's yellow or golden post adventure, when he got his opposite personality.

And I still don't get this. I never said friendship couldn't happen between opposites. That's the whole thing I've been saying. I believe Sonic and Blaze could be (and are) friends. Lovers, of course not.

While Tails may idolize Sonic, Blaze certainly respects him too. The ending of Sonic Rush shows us that she holds his words and memory in high regard and he is defiantly the only person she has really opened up around. It may not be idolization, but its not too far either.

Everyone learns a lesson with Sonic: Tails, Knuckles, Shadow, Jet, ELISE and even Eggman. At the very least, they all respect him. Blaze is not any different. Also, idolization is different from respect.

That is exactly what we keep coming back to. Yes, Sonic pushes around this kind of behavior on a ton of other characters, but at the same time few if any have reacted in a similar manner to Blaze. She has already decided to change a fundamental part of herself to accept what Sonic had to say at face value. She is really the only character to do so on his whim. Yes, the friendship is there, but at the same time we all know that friendship usually is the base to something more.

Sega has not made it blatantly clear that Blaze and Sonic could be together. But with as many puzzle pieces that we have been given I would say that "shipteasing" is a fair conclusion. Even for people whom wouldn't think the two could even work in a relationship have to look at the stack of evidence to see that Sega simply left a door open for us to make our own conclusions.

Well, of course it needs to be different. She's already so close to Knuckles and Shadow in personality that she needed to be spun somewhat differently than the converting of the other two. It only makes sense, otherwise she'd be more redundant than she already is.

If you say so. I've seen people shooting down his crush on Elise and his accepting of Amy's feelings in Black Knight, so I suppose everyone has their opinion based on their personal taste. It is funny, that the most obvious one sounds more like lampshading the whole situatuion and that happened in the same game where he goes out with another character who definetly loves him (and he knows it).

Edited December 13, 2009 by redmenace

[Dr. Mechano]

An important detail to note is that Percival is not Blaze. Percival looks like Blaze, but is a separate character from an alternate reality. What Percival does has no bearing on what the actual Blaze does. After all, Shahryar certainly wasn't a world-conquering mad scientist, but a peaceful- albeit arrogant and goofy- king.

If there was shipping in this scene (And I don't think there was to begin with), it was between Sonic and Percival, not Sonic and Blaze.

[Genesis]

^ Yes, I completely agree with that entire statement right there.

In my perspective, Percival only blushed because the sword made an embarrassing comment. I agree with those who said blushing doesn't automatically mean romance. Characters blush all the time out of embarrassment in cartoons. I can see if Sonic gave her a compliment and she blushed about it, then maybe I can see it as ship tease.

...concerning the highly popular Sonic X Blaze thingie?

Blaze herself seems popular, but Sonic/Blaze? not really from what I've seen. I know the pairing has a few vocal fans here and there. Though I wouldn't say there is a overwhelming number like I see for other possible canonical pairings (games and comics). The one pairing that seems to be in the lead involving Blaze, is Silver/Blaze.

While I don't necessarily believe there is anything going on between Silver and Blaze besides a strong friendship(Sonic 06). I do think they shared more heat than Sonic/Blaze

I think Sonic and Blaze's feelings for each other are platonic. While it's obvious Sega does ship tease, I don't think thats the case for Sonic/Blaze. Not once did I ever sense they had feelings for each other in either SR or SRA.

I can maybe see Blaze liking Sonic but I don't see him being interested in her beyond friendship. I just don't think Blaze would be his type. I figure Sonic would be interested in someone who isn't tied down to any major duties and someone who just wants to have fun/adventure like he does. Blaze doesn't fit that.

What happened between her and Sonic in both Rush games leaned more towards friendship than it did romantic, in my opinion. The emeralds bringing them together in SRA, I thought it was because their dimensions needed saving and possibly knew it would take both of them to defeat the evil that was going on in her world.

Edited December 13, 2009 by Genesis

[Blazey Firekitty]

An important detail to note is that Percival is not Blaze. Percival looks like Blaze, but is a separate character from an alternate reality. What Percival does has no bearing on what the actual Blaze does. After all, Shahryar certainly wasn't a world-conquering mad scientist, but a peaceful- albeit arrogant and goofy- king.

If there was shipping in this scene (And I don't think there was to begin with), it was between Sonic and Percival, not Sonic and Blaze.

I guess Sonic's going to be reading a lot more Arthurian legend, then.XD

Though I really must wonder what to make of

Sonic being the "true King Arthur."

Always kind of confused me.

[Sega DogTagz]

People never get the difference. It's not Sonic's responsability to fight Eggman, he could very well walk away from the fight. Yet he choose to fight, because he's the designated hero (it's always like this...), and past Sonic Adventure, he can't let it slide because of his strong sense of justice and freedom. The whole thing is based around who HE IS. Romantic feelings are adquired, it's not part of Sonic's personality. I cannot see how destiny in being a hero correlates to destiny in being paired off with someone (and yuck by the way). Besides, both Sonic and Shadow have said "screw destiny" more than once. They're the makers of their own destiny, even if by going by their personalities we can see how that destiny is going to be.

That is getting away from my point. What I was referring to was that Sonic's free and unbound lifestyle does not make him immune to the tasks preordained by destiny. Just because he is open and carefree dosn't mean he will avoid premonitions of the future along the way. At least twice already in this series (Hidden Palace, SA1 Lost World mural) destiny has stepped into place to provide a vision of what was going to happen in the future. Both times, destines call was answered. The whims of the Chaos and Sol emeralds provide some serious foreshadowing into another destiny that demands us to address it.

His "screw destiny" lifestyle has done nothing but lead him right into his preordained destiny. Oddly enough, the Chaos Emeralds have played a substantial part in all of this. Now that we are getting more whims out of the emeralds, don't you believe we should take this couple D. couple very seriously?

And I said, while their paths crossed. He has done this with everyone. Also, Sonic only bothers while their philosphy is opposite of his and conflicts with the fight at hand. Then he doesn't care anymore, aka Shadow.

But certainly not near the extent he has done so with Blaze. Shadow is a rather poor counterexample, considering that over the course of his own game, he decided his own path in life separate from what the world, or Sonic for that matter, wanted. Blaze reformed basically because of the impact Sonic (and Cream) took out on her.

Yes, everyone gets a taste, but the amount Sonic heaped on Blaze puts her in a class of her own. Its not like Sonic hasn't had the opportunity to work with other characters either. Knuckles and Shadow (and possibly even Jett if you want to go there) conflicted with Sonic on a fundamental level and the Blue Blur chose against the amount of interaction he held with Blaze.

I said, that I could not understand how two characters with such different views could stand each other romantically. This bickering couple thing, is one of the twelve myths of Love fiction, it has been studied, books have been published aroun it and that it simply does not work in the long run. I'm not talking without knowing. But ofcourse, you're flamebaiting, logic isn't part of the equation here.

I wasn't baiting. I was just curious as to why you would say something that doesn't help you case like that. It seemed counterproductive, but at least now I have my answer.

Lately? Rush Adventure was two years ago. Black Knight? They hardly talked there. Everything else are cameos and unlockables. The right thing or not, Sonic simply does not care. You give him too much credit.

Lately as in the most recent developments between them. Cameo's aside, we are looking at Rush Adventure (I am careful with lending credence to black knight outside of general "tones"). Sonic and Blaze spent pretty much the entirety of that game together and failed to produce much if any bickering at all. Even back in the original Rush, they failed to produce these results seeing as how they were apart.

You can cite all the studies you want about how bickering partners fail to last, but Sonic and Blaze simply have provided little evidence that this is the type of relationship they are capable of, be it friendly or romantic. In fact, future trends look to their increased cooperation and point the arrow in the opposite direction.

As a result, Sonic cares plenty, as he does with all his friends. He has displayed a mentality more devoted to developing Blaze, than with any other character in the franchise. I think it would be hard to give the hedgehog enough credit on that one.

And I still don't get this. I never said friendship couldn't happen between opposites. That's the whole thing I've been saying. I believe Sonic and Blaze could be (and are) friends. Lovers, of course not.

In a nutshell, I was providing defense against the idea you presented stating that Sonic would not be able to get past Blaze's personality/beliefs. Sonic accepts one and all. The status of his best friend proves that and renders the argument against Blaze pretty much useless.

Everyone learns a lesson with Sonic: Tails, Knuckles, Shadow, Jet, ELISE and even Eggman. At the very least, they all respect him. Blaze is not any different. Also, idolization is different from respect.

And none of these characters really reforms to the extent that Blaze did as a result of Sonic's influence. (again, you could argue Jett, but the extent of his changes, if any, are TBD). I am talking about a two-way stream here and no other character has taken the teachings of Sonic to heart more-so than Blaze.

On the idolization front, I commented that Blaze fell short of Tails viewpoint, but the reasons that she respects Sonic are very similar to the Fox's reason to idolize. She can at least see from an angle similar to Tails. Not idolization, but closer to it than she is away from it.

Well, of course it needs to be different. She's already so close to Knuckles and Shadow in personality that she needed to be spun somewhat differently than the converting of the other two. It only makes sense, otherwise she'd be more redundant than she already is.

That is only if your of the mentality that Blaze is 99% Knuckles + Shadow and 1% Fire powers. I appreciate the uniqueness of her own situation and can regard her as quite dissimilar from the other two. She lacks Shadow's superiority complex and fails to hold onto the animosity Knuckles held for a while against Sonic. Her disposition, and willingness to allow Sonic to help her change is something that is not seen in either of the other two. That was basically the theme of the Rush series. While Shadow is concerned about "me", Blaze was picking up "we". While Knuckles sits in a static situation, Blaze is activly seeking out how to deal with hers in an appropriate way.

Stapling Blaze to all this Shadow and Knuckles trope is a worthless endeavor. She is her own character with her own set of circumstances. Some connections can be drawn but not allowing Blaze the ability to grow as herself would be no different than me commenting on how Shadow was out of character during his entire game because he is clearly a Sonic clone. It just doesn't work like that.

Blaze was never redundant. People just spot the emerald guarding and the lack of smiles and bandwagon on the idea. One could just as easily create a list about the redundancy of almost any character.

If you say so. I've seen people shooting down his crush on Elise and his accepting of Amy's feelings in Black Knight, so I suppose everyone has their opinion based on their personal taste. It is funny, that the most obvious one sounds more like lampshading the whole situatuion and that happened in the same game where he goes out with another character who definetly loves him (and he knows it).

I agree that my mindset shifts the way I see the situation, as it affects us all. From a rational standpoint (and a pro/con analysis) Blaze seems like the best choice to me. Of course I am going to focus on ideas that support my theory, that is the point of the topic right.

At the same time, I can point to other situations like the one with Amy in the BK credits. The Sonic and Blaze argument lacks the flaws of that situation, since we all have first hand experience with what Amy can consider to be a "date" and what "quality time" with Sonic can be. That peice of evidence is just as broken as Percival =/= Blaze. They both do nothing for the cause outside of the portrayed themes they imply.

****

Also for all the talk you keep bringing up about how certain types of relationships don't work, I am now curious how a relationship with Amy would have a shot at success. Saying Amy "loves" Sonic comes with soooooo many strings attached.

Edited December 14, 2009 by Sega DogTagz

[redmenace]

That is getting away from my point. What I was referring to was that Sonic's free and unbound lifestyle does not make him immune to the tasks preordained by destiny. Just because he is open and carefree dosn't mean he will avoid premonitions of the future along the way. At least twice already in this series (Hidden Palace, SA1 Lost World mural) destiny has stepped into place to provide a vision of what was going to happen in the future. Both times, destines call was answered. The whims of the Chaos and Sol emeralds provide some serious foreshadowing into another destiny that demands us to address it.

His "screw destiny" lifestyle has done nothing but lead him right into his preordained destiny. Oddly enough, the Chaos Emeralds have played a substantial part in all of this. Now that we are getting more whims out of the emeralds, don't you believe we should take this couple D. couple very seriously?

You do not understand the difference between hero destiny and love destiny. If we’re going that way, Amy predicted Sonic and her or something to that ammount in Sonic CD. We’re not going down that road. This isn’t a Shoujo manga.

The SA1 Mural had Chaos alone and it was Tikal trying to show the past through the visions, not the future. It’s not destiny playing around.

The emeralds you mention are fine as a destiny hero thing. They don’t imply romantic destiny at all. Just two heroes working together. This wouldn’t be an issue if Blaze was a man and when you can do this swap, then there romantic couple is just a feeble imagination tidbit.

This screw destiny is what Sonic is and I can’t remember a time where he was screwed up by it. Sure he fights as the designated hero, but that’s because he cannot do anything else because of other aspect to his personality. Like I said romantic feelings do not fall under this.

But certainly not near the extent he has done so with Blaze. Shadow is a rather poor counterexample, considering that over the course of his own game, he decided his own path in life separate from what the world, or Sonic for that matter, wanted. Blaze reformed basically because of the impact Sonic (and Cream) took out on her.

Yes, everyone gets a taste, but the amount Sonic heaped on Blaze puts her in a class of her own. Its not like Sonic hasn't had the opportunity to work with other characters either. Knuckles and Shadow (and possibly even Jett if you want to go there) conflicted with Sonic on a fundamental level and the Blue Blur chose against the amount of interaction he held with Blaze.

Just because it's not said, it doesn't mean it has not happened. It's obvious that Shadow reformed in SA2, and it wasn't just because of Amy.

Are you really saying that Blaze, a character who has been shown as strong and independent would throw all of this out of the window change because of someone else? Really? I'd be flamed to hell and back if I was the one saying this, not a fan of the character.

She changed because he showed her she was wrong. Like Knuckles and Shadow did (but did not admit). It does not matter the way. They’ve all changed because Sonic was in their lives. Blaze is only different because she admited it so.

I wasn't baiting. I was just curious as to why you would say something that doesn't help you case like that. It seemed counterproductive, but at least now I have my answer.

Of course you weren’t.

Lately as in the most recent developments between them. Cameo's aside, we are looking at Rush Adventure (I am careful with lending credence to black knight outside of general "tones"). Sonic and Blaze spent pretty much the entirety of that game together and failed to produce much if any bickering at all. Even back in the original Rush, they failed to produce these results seeing as how they were apart.

You can cite all the studies you want about how bickering partners fail to last, but Sonic and Blaze simply have provided little evidence that this is the type of relationship they are capable of, be it friendly or romantic. In fact, future trends look to their increased cooperation and point the arrow in the opposite direction.

As a result, Sonic cares plenty, as he does with all his friends. He has displayed a mentality more devoted to developing Blaze, than with any other character in the franchise. I think it would be hard to give the hedgehog enough credit on that one.

Rush Adventure was two years ago and like Mechano said, Percival is not Blaze. How is this lately? She was a character that was used once and now is recicled because she met popularity standards (and is a girl and there are only other two main ones).

And cooperation is immediately love instead of friendship why?

This is your opinion. To me he does this to everyone. And I still haven’t seen any proof otherwise.

In a nutshell, I was providing defense against the idea you presented stating that Sonic would not be able to get past Blaze's personality/beliefs. Sonic accepts one and all. The status of his best friend proves that and renders the argument against Blaze pretty much useless.

Sonic accepts everyone but he doesn’t accept their ideals, and when they conflict, he changes them. He has done this since forever.

Tails proves nothing against Blaze, since you want to prove that Tails’ friendship implies Blaze’s love, which is ridiculous. It’s apples and oranges, love and friendship. Tails' friendship might imply Blaze's friendship. Everything else is ridiculous and grasping at straws.

And none of these characters really reforms to the extent that Blaze did as a result of Sonic's influence. (again, you could argue Jett, but the extent of his changes, if any, are TBD). I am talking about a two-way stream here and no other character has taken the teachings of Sonic to heart more-so than Blaze.

On the idolization front, I commented that Blaze fell short of Tails viewpoint, but the reasons that she respects Sonic are very similar to the Fox's reason to idolize. She can at least see from an angle similar to Tails. Not idolization, but closer to it than she is away from it.

Shadow wanted to destroy the world and then saved it. To be honest, that’s a larger reform than Blaze could ever dream of. Just because he doesn’t state it outright, it doesn’t mean it did not happen.

Again, you confunde love with friendship. When is respect automatically love? Respect doesn’t even is friendship to begin with.

That is only if your of the mentality that Blaze is 99% Knuckles + Shadow and 1% Fire powers. I appreciate the uniqueness of her own situation and can regard her as quite dissimilar from the other two. She lacks Shadow's superiority complex and fails to hold onto the animosity Knuckles held for a while against Sonic. Her disposition, and willingness to allow Sonic to help her change is something that is not seen in either of the other two. That was basically the theme of the Rush series. While Shadow is concerned about "me", Blaze was picking up "we". While Knuckles sits in a static situation, Blaze is activly seeking out how to deal with hers in an appropriate way.

Stapling Blaze to all this Shadow and Knuckles trope is a worthless endeavor. She is her own character with her own set of circumstances. Some connections can be drawn but not allowing Blaze the ability to grow as herself would be no different than me commenting on how Shadow was out of character during his entire game because he is clearly a Sonic clone. It just doesn't work like that.

Blaze was never redundant. People just spot the emerald guarding and the lack of smiles and bandwagon on the idea. One could just as easily create a list about the redundancy of almost any character.

You say tomatos, I say tomatoes. The differences are not that big to not make her redudant. The fact that she’s from another dimension is another restraining order for the main universe. She is not a regular part of the cast, she cannot interact with Sonic often. Why would it be love? It’s not, it’s friendship, and it always stays behind when Sonic starts another adventure. The only constants on Sonic’s life are Eggman, Tails and Amy. Those are the core cast, much to my dismay because I love Knuckles just as much.

I agree that my mindset shifts the way I see the situation, as it affects us all. From a rational standpoint (and a pro/con analysis) Blaze seems like the best choice to me. Of course I am going to focus on ideas that support my theory, that is the point of the topic right.

At the same time, I can point to other situations like the one with Amy in the BK credits. The Sonic and Blaze argument lacks the flaws of that situation, since we all have first hand experience with what Amy can consider to be a "date" and what "quality time" with Sonic can be. That peice of evidence is just as broken as Percival =/= Blaze. They both do nothing for the cause outside of the portrayed themes they imply.

Not really, I have my own personal beliefs and tastes, like thinking that Knuckels is more important than he is right now and wanting him to show up more often, but I also understand that his guardian position would be compromised and therefore, I do not defend his appearance just for the sake of it.

I know the difference between personal wants and what it’s best for the franchise. A love triangle needs to exist if Sonic X Blaze exists, and this in a kid’s platforming game is ridiculous enough that all of this discussion is redundant. It would never happen. Even the Rouge X Knuckles X Shadow love triangle simply does not exist.

Also for all the talk you keep bringing up about how certain types of relationships don't work, I am now curious how a relationship with Amy would have a shot at success. Saying Amy "loves" Sonic comes with soooooo many strings attached.

I don’t see what Amy has anything to do with this.

"I'm not flamebaiting! Honest!"

Right...

And to be honest, neither of us is convincing the other. Enough is enough.

Edited December 14, 2009 by redmenace

[Blazey Firekitty]

Are you really saying that Blaze, a character who has been shown as strong and independent would throw all of this out of the window change because of someone else? Really? I'd be flamed to hell and back if I was the one saying this, not a fan of the character.

She changed because he showed her she was wrong. Like Knuckles and Shadow did (but did not admit). It does not matter the way. They’ve all changed because Sonic was in their lives. Blaze is only different because she admited it so.

Responding to this part, because I don't personally agree with it.

Blaze is strong and independent in the sense that she's an accomplished warrior. But, at the beginning of Rush, at least, she didn't know how to do much beyond that. She wasn't fully independent, because her emotional growth was severely stunted, and it took a lot of work from Cream, Sonic, and, to a lesser extent, everyone else, to get her to start acting like a normal, well-adjusted teenager.

The entire point of the first Rush game was that Blaze was unhappy because no one cared about her. Sure, she chose to fight to her last breath instead of whining about it. But that doesn't change the fact that she had nothing in her life to live for beyond fighting. It made her very upset. Otherwise she wouldn't have been giving a long speech to Sonic about how she's worked so hard, and has nothing to show for it. She was very angry that she had no one in her life that cared about her.

Blaze didn't just change because Sonic showed her she was wrong...She changed because Sonic was one of the people in her life that showed her that there was more to live for than duty and fighting. She's still a warrior, she's still bound to responsibility, but she now she doesn't have to be lonely or miserable while she does it.

I feel that Blaze sees Sonic as the boy who helped save her from herself...I don't know if that means she has romantic feelings for him, but I wouldn't be surprised if she did.

I'm not trying to insult you or be condescending. I'm just trying to support my own view of things.

[Sega DogTagz]

And to be honest, neither of us is convincing the other. Enough is enough.

I have to honor that, because the only alternative is to argue for the sake of arguing, which will still get us nowhere.

Much as I would like to point out stuff I disagree with on that last post, we clearly have two different vantage points on the series.

I don’t see what Amy has anything to do with this.

"I'm not flamebaiting! Honest!"

Right...

Hey, that is messed up right there.

All I did was re-purpose an argument you made with a topic you brought into the discussion. I seriously don't see how you keep attributing this to baiting if they were your words to begin with. Its not like I am throwing words in your mouth or anything like that. You brought it up.

[redmenace]

Responding to this part, because I don't personally agree with it.

Blaze is strong and independent in the sense that she's an accomplished warrior. But, at the beginning of Rush, at least, she didn't know how to do much beyond that. She wasn't fully independent, because her emotional growth was severely stunted, and it took a lot of work from Cream, Sonic, and, to a lesser extent, everyone else, to get her to start acting like a normal, well-adjusted teenager.

The entire point of the first Rush game was that Blaze was unhappy because no one cared about her. Sure, she chose to fight to her last breath instead of whining about it. But that doesn't change the fact that she had nothing in her life to live for beyond fighting. It made her very upset. Otherwise she wouldn't have been giving a long speech to Sonic about how she's worked so hard, and has nothing to show for it. She was very angry that she had no one in her life that cared about her.

Blaze didn't just change because Sonic showed her she was wrong...She changed because Sonic was one of the people in her life that showed her that there was more to live for than duty and fighting. She's still a warrior, she's still bound to responsibility, but she now she doesn't have to be lonely or miserable while she does it.

I feel that Blaze sees Sonic as the boy who helped save her from herself...I don't know if that means she has romantic feelings for him, but I wouldn't be surprised if she did.

I'm not trying to insult you or be condescending. I'm just trying to support my own view of things.

So she's strong physically, but weak emotionally. Like a foil to Amy / Cream, who are both weak physically but strong emotionally. I can live with that.

My point was, I really can't see characters changing themselves for others. No one can change if they don't make the decision themselves. I can see Blaze going down this road. Clearly the path she had choosen until then was not working... Mhmm... but we fall again in the same thing as before... This has happened to Shadow as well. There's no difference, besides one admiting it out load and the other not.

Hey, that is messed up right there.

All I did was re-purpose an argument you made with a topic you brought into the discussion. I seriously don't see how you keep attributing this to baiting if they were your words to begin with. Its not like I am throwing words in your mouth or anything like that. You brought it up.

It's not my fault that everytime that someone doesn't agree with Sonic X ANYONE BUT AMY, the subject of Amy is brought up as the reason why that someone does not agree with the pairing. If it wasn't your intention, my apologies, but it happens just too often (close to always more likely).

[Phos]

I was thinking that SatBK was kind of shipping Sonic with Blaze but then I remembered something. The whole game's story is basically a romantic comedy that paired Sonic with Caliburn. Don't believe me? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o2-Va0Hqytk. Caliburn scolds Sonic for shying away from the Lady of the Lake, and then gets jealous when he gets too touchy feely.

And look at how he's holding it when it transforms!!

Haha, Caliburn's super form is the EX version of it's regular form, "EXCalibur".

[Unknownlight]

I was thinking that SatBK was kind of shipping Sonic with Blaze but then I remembered something. The whole game's story is basically a romantic comedy that paired Sonic with Caliburn. Don't believe me? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o2-Va0Hqytk. Caliburn scolds Sonic for shying away from the Lady of the Lake, and then gets jealous when he gets too touchy feely.

And look at how he's holding it when it transforms!!

Haha, Caliburn's super form is the EX version of it's regular form, "EXCalibur".

My god... That actually makes some twisted kind of sense.