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If you could improve SatAM


Miko
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If someone gave you to ability to do SatAM over or add new seasons what would you change? Or would you change anything? I guess I wanted to pose this question in a place where reception was mixed at least?

Edited by Miko
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Have Robotnik engage in action more often like he did in the games, and have Tails do more shit. Antoine is awesome, but for christ's sake get rid of the mini-episodes, and Dulcy. At least the comics made her tolerable by getting rid of her running gag.

Other than that, I can't think of much else to fix! Knuckles would have been a pretty neat addition, though.

Edited by Jake
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If I were redoing it, I would have let both Tails and Rotor participate in field missions on a regular basis.

I might have make Bunnie fully roboticized instead of partially. I had this weird idea where she'd have free will, but wouldn't know why, and would be secretly afraid of turning on her friends. This would presumably lead to touching moments where the other FFs would let her know they don't think of her as a monster.

Then again, maybe I wouldn't do that. I dunno. Probably could do most of what I mentioned with Bunnie as she was originally concieved.

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Robotnik would be an actual mad scientist who actively invents things.

And really, he'd be less... flat. I'm fine with SatAM's iteration of Robotnik being totally sinister, a man of few- if any- redeeming qualities. But give him a personality with more flare and pizazz! I'm a fan of the Robotnik who actively and stylishly challenges his foes, not the grumpy old man who sits on his metallic throne calmly calculating his next move. Even though my favorite take on Eggman has an innate good side, for SatAM's purposes, I think a villain can be dark and sinister while still being fun and likable- The Joker's entire concept is a testament to that much.

From a purely stylistic standpoint, I'd give him his pince-nez glasses from the games too. I never dug the black hole/glowy red eyes.

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But give him a personality with more flare and pizazz! I'm a fan of the Robotnik who actively and stylishly challenges his foes, not the grumpy old man who sits on his metallic throne calmly calculating his next move.

You know, I thought about that for a moment, and realized that a certain irony: Gameverse Robotnik is a wacky, eccentric, jolly type who dresses in a relatively conservative manner. SatAM Robotnik is a cold, irritable grouch who dresses in a flashy flamboyant number that makes me think he's been raiding Superman's closet.XD

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I've never been much of a fan of SatAM so I dunno what weight my opinion carries, but I never did like how Robotnik was already solidly in control and that Sonic and the rest were just a few specks that had yet to be wiped out, as opposed to the games where things were generally pretty good and that whatever Eggman had taken control of could be saved in a game's time. I prefer the more upbeat tone, where Eggman's constantly trying to establish himself as a dictator but is constantly foiled, as opposed to being an untouchable nigh-unopposed blob of evil who's basically already won.

I know it's a pretty radical shift in story and tone, but...well, they shifted first. Even in the days before Sonic Team was concerned with stories, even without knowing the Japanese stories and having to make things up to fill it in, there's no way you could interpret the games as anything like what they did in SatAM.

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Steal the funding to it and AoStH and use it to make a regular show out of the OVA.

Seconded.

It's not that I didn't like the series, it just didn't really have anything to do with Sonic, especially at the time. I mean, there was some character development, but it was really only between Sonic and Sally. The rest of the Freedom Fighters were just... deadweight for the most part. Even Tails!

But if there is one thing I loved about the series, it's the margarine scene.

And I do think the OVA would have been far better and had a less shallow story if it was a TV series, or at least longer.

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From a purely stylistic standpoint, I'd give him his pince-nez glasses from the games too. I never dug the black hole/glowy red eyes.

Ditto. It's like the creators took one look at the US Sonic 2 cover and said "Hey, where are his eyes? I know, we'll give him some red irises to make him more EEEEEVIIIIIILLLLL!!11!!one"

Video game adaptions really suffered from lack of research back in the day. Sonic, Mario, Street Fighter, Mega Man...the list goes on.

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Steal the funding to it and AoStH and use it to make a regular show out of the OVA.

Thirded

But if I had to say anything I'd say change the very end of the last episode just so the series isnt left on a cliffhanger only to find out that its been cancelled. I havent seen much of SatAM so I can't think of anything else

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1) Take out Sally. Sorry but having her around was more maladaptive than what it was worth. The series focused too much on Sonic and Sally--mainly Sally-- and hardly anyone else. Some may argue that the characters could be given compelling backstories, but alas, even then she wouldn't work. Its been implied in even the earliest games that Sonic's supposed to have multiple friends, however if you haven't yet noticed, Sally consumes a lot if not most of the series' time because of the fact she's supposed to be THE foil to Sonic, and leaving everyone else with little to contribute since she's designed to compensate for so much of his flaws. Handeling Sonic's flaws and shortcomigs should be left for all his friends to handle, not just one character. Otherwise whatever they do gets cheapened because nothing they offer is anything Sonic couldn't ask and get from Sally most of the time. If we need a princess, I'd use Amy. It'd certainly give her more to do than just chasing Sonic all the time.

2) Have Tails do more instead of just being a cutesy kid.

3) I don't mind Robotnik taking over the home of the main characters, but for the sake of making the story more flexible, I wouldn't have him rule over everything. Perhaps in the process of, perhaps he's revered, but not actually ruling. Give Sonic more of a world to venture.

4) Keep Uncle Chuck and Nicole. If it were me, I'd also add in Mina Mongoose from the comics as Amy's friend and Sonic's other potential love interest and then perhaps Scourge as a temporary side villian. I could probably see Nack/Fang in there too, and other game characters as Freedom Fighters. Be they on the main cast or elsewhere. Don't know if I'd bother with most of the originals. Bunnie was IMO too similar to Amy, so if she were there she'd need a personality lift. I think nowadays Antione would be offensive so no go, and we already have a mechanic with Tails. If Rotor would be in it then he'd probably mentor him in this skill, but I couldn't see him as a main character.

Even in the days before Sonic Team was concerned with stories, even without knowing the Japanese stories and having to make things up to fill it in, there's no way you could interpret the games as anything like what they did in SatAM.

Both the Japanese and Western manuals were equally authentic back then, so it wasn't just a matter of "filling things up". In the American manuals where SatAM was aired, a lot of the setting, Robotnik taking over things and transforming animals into robots could have been were in interpreted through that. Now I'm not saying that they adapted everything as well as they could have but then, even Sonic Team has failed to incorporate elements the way they've been introduced and developed in the original games. Amy Rose and the Chaotix being a couple examples.

I might have make Bunnie fully roboticized instead of partially. I had this weird idea where she'd have free will, but wouldn't know why, and would be secretly afraid of turning on her friends. This would presumably lead to touching moments where the other FFs would let her know they don't think of her as a monster.

I don't see why she'd need to be fully roboticized in order to acheive this. Then again, this kind of story seems better suited for Uncle Chuck than it does for her.

Edited by Picchi
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SatAM was fine by me too. I would like a lot more Tails in action and a lot more of Robotnik doing a bit more than just sitting about being menacing. As El Grando also said I would like him to have a bit more of a dynamic personality.

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SatAM is very fine by me, I don't think I'd change anything, especially the Sonic-Sally dynamic !

Now I'm all for a love interest who isn't peripherial and has pressense. I'm also all for girls who can stand up to their boys, but I think what gets me about Sally is that her characterization and relationship with Sonic pretty much required her to cheapen everyone else's distinct, potential contributions to him as friends. So IMO, if she, or any character requires that much to stay in a given story, to the point they're maladaptive towards the plot and other cast membes then they really shouldn't be around. If there needs to be a more arguementative dynamic, then there's always Tails, Mina, and Knuckles who could offer that. I don't see why Sally has to be there, even if partially on that basis.

Edited by Picchi
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I don't see why she'd need to be fully roboticized in order to acheive this. Then again, this kind of story seems better suited for Uncle Chuck than it does for her.

Sounds pretty reasonable. I guess my imagination went wild and came up with an over-convoluted scheme for what could have been solved by simply giving the character more attention and screentime.

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I loved Sally, but I would scrap the whole SonSal emphasis, personally. I liked the idea of Sonic having a tomboyish hotheaded girl for a close friend, and I loved that Sally was the 'leader', so Sonic wasn't the be all and end all of the Freedom Fighters (even if, arguably, their greatest asset). But I agree that it got out of control sometimes... it would have been nice if Sally wasn't ALWAYS in the spotlight. However, I adored her (and Bunnie) as a character.

Of course, I would also give Tails some more screen time and have him fighting alongside Sonic and co, rather than relegated to 'baby' of the group. He's been fighting alongside Sonic since almost day one in the games, so it was sad to see him so useless in that show. However, he was a fully fledged Freedom Fighter by the end, so I would have liked to see him become more useful and involved.

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In hindsight, I'm probably not the sort of person who should "revising" SatAM. The main things I miss from SatAM are Sally, Bunnie, Antoine and Rotor. The nostalgia for me is more about the characters than the setting.

SatAM's dark tone was pretty cool for what it was, but it's not really what represents Sonic for me at the present time. I'm more used to the tone of the game verse these days, where the general rule of plot is "if it feels fun, do it." If I did it over, I'd probably make it far too light, basically destroying its uniqueness.

Then again, I might come back around and embrace SatAM's brand of serious story telling eventually. Sometimes everything old is new again, I guess.

Edited by BlazeyBakeneko
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Both the Japanese and Western manuals were equally authentic back then, so it wasn't just a matter of "filling things up". In the American manuals where SatAM was aired, a lot of the setting, Robotnik taking over things and transforming animals into robots could have been were in interpreted through that.
Okay, fair enough on the western manuals being valid back then, but even they don't come anywhere close to SatAM, and just spending 10 minutes with any of the games should have shut down that way of thinking anyway, so they pretty much did just make shit up.
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Have Robotnik engage in action more often like he did in the games, and have Tails do more shit. Antoine is awesome, but for christ's sake get rid of the mini-episodes, and Dulcy. At least the comics made her tolerable by getting rid of her running gag.

Other than that, I can't think of much else to fix! Knuckles would have been a pretty neat addition, though.

You better not be hating on Ro-Becca there when you said "Get rid of the mini-episodes". Anyone hating on Ro-Becca will get peed on by Otacon!

But I agree with you that Robotnik should have engaged in more action, Tails should have done more, and get rid of Dulcy.

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Well I like SATAM for what it is but here's my opinion:

Give Robotnik a more prominent role on the battleground (instead of just sitting in his chair ordering Snively around), more Sonic destroying robot action, less use of plot devices such as Nicole and the Power Rings (Nicole as a character can stay but not as the answer to all of Sally's problems) and make Sonic a little less of a douche.

I wouldn't change too much though because then it gets to the point when it's not even SATAM anymore. I wouldn't remove Sally as she is a big part of SATAM and while I would like Tails to get more screentime whenever he actually wen't on a mission in SATAM (which was like 2 times) he completely outshined everyone and was the most competent member of the group. If Tails had more prominence in SATANM Robotnik would be defeated within 3 days.

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Nothing. c:

Well, okay. A lot of you guys know that I prefer SatAM to every continuity ever, but there ARE a few things I would change.

First, I agree about making Robotnik actually have more of a personality. Keeping him sinister is fine, but having him actually do things and have more quirks would be awesome. Perhaps add a bit of zaniness while keeping him cruel at heart.

Sally... I disagree about removing her. I find her to be a good character, but what I'd do is just spread Sonic's interaction out so he does get some time with the other characters. I like the idea of those two being the main duo of the Freedom Fighters, but I would also have Tails be there with them, learning how to be a Freedom Fighter along the way, and the other FFs would get some screentime. Dulcy...I'd probably scrap her. Flight was useful, but they had that cool plane from season one for that.

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Okay, fair enough on the western manuals being valid back then, but even they don't come anywhere close to SatAM, and just spending 10 minutes with any of the games should have shut down that way of thinking anyway, so they pretty much did just make shit up.

Again, I'm going to have to disagree with you there. I think there are plenty of instances within the manuals and the games that point to at the very least, the concept of SatAM being plausible.

Lets look at the US Sonic 2 manual for a moment:

Miles "Tails" Prower, the fox, can't sit still when Sonic's around. Ever since Miles was a baby fox, he's dreamed of being like Sonic. He loves to run after Sonic, waving his two tails behind him, trying to keep up with his hero!

Mostly, Sonic lets him trail along. But sometimes, just to show off, Sonic explodes in a burst of super speed and leaves him behind. But Miles doesn't give up. He whirls his tails like a helicopter rotor and takes off flying until he catches up!

All the animals call Miles by his nickname, "Tails", because of his two special tails. And one day they saw an astonishing feat...

They were all together in the forest, watching Sonic perform. Sonic would run, spin and jump in his Super Spin Attack. Then "Tails" would whirl like a turbo engine and blast off in his Super Dash Attack. What a showoff!

Suddenly, "Tails" just couldn't help himself. He took a running start, curled up his tails, and - whoosh - he was spinning like Sonic!

But now something frightening is happening. Sonic's friends are disappearing. In their place, nasty metal robots are popping up all over the island. The mad scientist Dr. Robotnik is at it again! This time, Robotnik's planning a global disaster. He needs workers to create a doomsday machine that can take over the world. So he's trapping all the animals, turning them into robots, and forcing them to build his ultimate weapon, the Death Egg!

Robotnik now rules the factories, refineries and cities! He's grabbed control of everything - except the 7 Chaos Emeralds. These magnificent gems are believed to hold exceptional powers. With them, Robotnik could have the entireworld in his grasp. And he'd never let go!

The Chaos Emeralds are buried somewhere on the island. Only one tough dude with spiky hair has the speed to find them first!

Help Sonic stop the devious scheme of the demented scientist! Spin like a speedball through space. Grab Power Sneakers and loop 'til you're dizzy. Twirl over twisting speedways and rocket through tunnels. Balance and blast across a bubbling ocean of oil!

Find the Emeralds, free the animals, and squash Robotnik forever!

So according to the manual, Robotnik had taken over just about everything within the residential area of the game, captured most of the animals and transformed them into robotic slaves. There is nothing, at least not within the basic concepts of SatAM that contradicted the theme of the manual's story. And when you consider that there were also zones like Metropolis, Oil Ocean, Scrap Brain, Chemical Plant and Wing Fortress, its also very possible that that he could have had areas like Robotropolis under his control. I think where SatAM fell short though, was that instead of Robotnik taking over a mere mass of land, by taking over the world, it was difficult to invoke the level exploration of the games in a way that was beleivable. Even in Sonic 2 it was explained that Robotnik was still in the process of taking over the world.

Sally... I disagree about removing her. I find her to be a good character, but what I'd do is just spread Sonic's interaction out so he does get some time with the other characters.

Its not simply about Sonic "just" interacting with the other characters. Sally was the foil for Sonic, and that was what helped to define her relationship to him. But if Sally's the foil to his personality, the others don't really have any of their personality contribute. So it's not really possible to make a beleivable bond between Sonic and the other characters because with Sally compensating for everything, he doesn't need their personalities. Theres not even much room for a dynamic to be made. All he'd need them for are their brawn, their hacking skills or their flight. They are only valued like appliances, not people.

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