If you could improve SatAM

[Blazey Firekitty]

That's pretty cool, Indigo! Gives Sonic a unique look while still clearly being him, and the pencil work and coloring look pretty top notch.

So anyways, about Tails...Like Eileanach said, this topic exploded with actvity over night. That's pretty cool though. I'll try to add in my two cents as best I can.

Miko, I think part of the problem is that you are thinking about the characters in far too limited terms. I mean...Summer was able to post this huge, detailed character study when she admits that she only has a limited knowledge of the show. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but...I feel like you're treating the characters like variables in a math equation more than as people. Since this is fiction, and we can't presumably walk up to these people and ask them why they do what it is they do, shouldn't we be open to multiple possibilities in regard to what goes on inside their heads?

I'm going to try again to show why Sonic and Tails' friendship is not a plothole.

Okay, I'm currently in a relationship with my online boyfriend. We've been together for more or less a decade now. Thing is, I couldn't really tell you logically why we ever got together in the first place. It's not just that we're lovers, it's that we're so close that we're soul mates, and would be even if we broke up. I don't know exactly how we got that close. We share some things in common, but for the most part, it just kind of happened.

Still, things haven't been perfect between us. In some ways, we're polar opposites. And I've gradually had to learn not to take him for granted, to listen better to what he had to say.

Likewise...there doesn't have to be a reason for why Sonic and Tails are so close for them to be that close. And just because Sonic may be a clumsy oaf in the way he treats his friend, in a similar manner to the way I treated mine at times, that doesn't mean the bond doesn't exist in the first place. It's just a shaky bond that needs some tender love and care.

To further illustrate...Blaze and Silver and Sonic 06. I'll admit I haven't played the game, but I figure if Summer could produce THAT work of brilliance with a limited knowledge of SatAM, I can comment on this. We're not really told why they're friends, outside of some story bible saying that Silver stood up for her when other kids made fun of her. Throughout Silver's story, their relationship is distant and awkward. It's only at the very end, when Blaze is about to die, when she realizes that she needs to let him know how she feels now, or never, that we're shown how close they really are.

Does this mean their bond was a plothole that never existed? No. It just means that Blaze took Silver for granted because she was an emotional damaged person who assumed wrongly that there would be more time to grow close to Silver, when the call of duty and the danger of apocalypse wasn't as strong. Because, ironically, she was every bit as naive as Silver was.

Just because a person doesn't give a bond the proper care it needs, that doesn't mean the bond isn't there.

[Miko]

First and foremost, Sonic and Tails. From my understanding, Tails is simply an enthusiastic little kid... So, as Tails isn't fully involved with the serious business as the rest of the Freedom Fighters are, perhaps he could bring Sonic away from the mundane tasks of restoring Knothole/Mobius/Mobotropolis, and keep him remembering what was and what can be once more - a motivation to keep fighting, so to speak.

I could probably argue this from a number of angles, but one of my bigger reasons for concluding it's not really going to work is because you'd be changing to a large extent Sonic's character. Sonic enjoys adventuring and one big example is him saying "too bad" when everyone beleives Robotnik is dead. Having Sonic view battle as a serious "weight of the world" sort of thing would change the atmosphere of the show and it'd also change Sonic's characterization. The battle itself is motivation enough for Sonic to keep going.

Now, the problem with Sally is that she counters Sonic's impulse... What if she were downplayed so she perhaps... Perhaps solely countered his ego instead? She's a responsible and level-headed character, from what I can tell - she could challenge Sonic's delusions and stop him from being reckless with the belief that he can do anything and everything; bring a sense of reality to give his giagantic ego that deflation it sometimes needs for him to be able to do things to the best of his ability.

1. First of all, I've often when explaining this use the words recklessness and impulsiveness interchangably. Flaws require recklessness to manifest. The act of allowing a trait to be expressed at a time most inconvenient is reckless.

2. Ideally for me, there would be no Sally. Yes many of her fans may be able to except big changes to her character and relationship to Sonic but it's the principle of the matter. You're trying to preserve something by robbing it of it's identity. It's then essentially not SonSal. Now while I totally understand expanding on relationships and characterization, I draw the line when it comes to hacking apart what was established. If you have to do that then it only proves Sally and her relationship to Sonic doesn't really work work for the cartoon. This extends to Rotor and cutting Sally's position to the story to make him work more. There's really also little point in trying to get someone to think of an alternative if their ego is set on a certain idea--hence the need for it to be deflated before reasoning can take place.

Bunnie, as far as I know, is like Sally's confidant, right? Why can't she also be Sonic's?

Sonic really doesn't have a specific confidant in the show. However the problem I see with this is the fact you confide in someone you're very close to. But there's no reason for Sonic to value Bunnie as a person for that to even work. Although you don't have to be close to someone to know they're trustworthy. However as trustworthy as Bunnie may be Sally is an honest and protaganistic character. There's really no reason for him to go to Bunnie when he can go to best friend, Sally. Trying to ignore the fact that people can talk to Sally about their personal concerns is taking away aspects of who she is from the story once again. Sally is not that rigid. The only time it'd work is if Sonic has a falling out with Sally and this would have to be a regular problem for Bunnie to have a regular function to the story. But lets assume then that the story takes things that far. He's asking Bunnie for her expirience with Sally. Her smarts on the subject of Sally. That doesn't strike me as displaying very much in the way of personality.

Okay, I'm currently in a relationship with my online boyfriend. We've been together for more or less a decade now. Thing is, I couldn't really tell you logically why we ever got together in the first place.

That doesn't mean a reason isn't there. Otherwise you'd have just dated anybody regardless of if it was him, wouldn't you? You're also assuming people get together for the right reasons. How many people out there believe they're soulmates only to find their relationship ultimately wouldn't work out?

Edited March 25, 2009 by Miko

[Blazey Firekitty]

That doesn't mean a reason isn't there. Otherwise you'd have just dated anybody regardless of if it was him, wouldn't you? You're also assuming people get together for the right reasons. How many people who believe they're soulmates find their relationship ultimately wouldn't work out?

Well, yes, you're right, relationships do fail even when people believe that they won't. And yes, you're right that there is a reason for me to consider my boyfriend a soulmate, if if I'm not clear what it is yet.

I don't see how that would make Sonic and Tails' friendship nonsensical.

I'll try to level with you, though, we could either go with:

Scenario One(The one I'm guessing is the one you advocate): Sonic and Tails think they are best friends, but they really aren't, and their belief in their closeness is driven by naievte.

Scenario Two(The one I'm voucing for): Sonic and Tails care about each other, and there is a reason for it, but they are just really lousy at communicating it.

If there is a plot hole, I'd say it's not that there isn't a reason for Sonic and Tails' friendship, it's merely that we, as an audience, don't get to see it due to subpar writing. It's locked in the minds and hearts of the characters themselves until better writing can fix the problem.

[Miko]

There's really no reason to beleive that it's there because there's really nothing distinct their interaction's with one another bring to the table.

[Blazey Firekitty]

There's really no reason to beleive that it's there because there's really nothing distinct their interaction's with one another bring to the table.

I...don't know how you can say that.;; It's not like Rotor practically worships Sonic as a god the way Tails does. And again, I know that Tails simply admiring Sonic and desiring his company doesn't constitute a bond, but, in my eyes, at least, it's because Sonic recognizes Tails' dependence on him that hurting him would wound Sonic more than it would if it were someone else.

At any rate, I think we're again at the point where we're not going to change each other's minds. If you do have an idea for fixing Tails, even if it involves the removal of one or more other characters, I would truly and sincerely be interested in listening to it.

[Miko]

Sonic recognizing Tails' dependence on you may hurt Sonic if he made him sad but most people would be this way if it's a small child that clung to you, even if you don't know them.

[Blazey Firekitty]

Sonic recognizing Tails' dependence on you may hurt Sonic if he made him sad but most people would be this way if it's a small child that clung to you, even if you don't know them.

I'll give you that.

[Little Miss Fortunes]

Gosh, this is complicated...

In this show, Sonic's your typical 'Idiot Hero', Tails is a typical kid, and Robotnik's a typical evil tyrant, right? Since these are no longer how these characters would be identified since newer media have shown them to have different personalities, how about, instead of removing Sally, remove those three and create new characters to take their place?

It can be called "Princess Sally and the Freedom Fighters", Sally and the Sonic-replacement will be the main characters, and, since the other characters have something of a bond with Sally rather than Sonic, all of the characters will now have some kind of bond with the main character. Yay...

...Yeah, I know that probably wouldn't be ideal.

Edited March 25, 2009 by Summer Breeze

[Blazey Firekitty]

Gosh, this is complicated...

In this show, Sonic's your typical 'Idiot Hero', Tails is a typical kid, and Robotnik's a typical evil tyrant, right? Since these are no longer how these characters would be identified since newer media have shown them to have different personalities, how about, instead of removing Sally, remove those three and create new characters to take their place?

It can be called "Princess Sally and the Freedom Fighters", Sally and the Sonic-replacement will be the main characters, and, since the otehr characters have something of a bond with Sally rather than Sonic, all of the characters will now have some kind of bond with the main character. Yay...

...Yeah, I know that probably wouldn't be ideal.

...I guess this just shows how out and out strange SatAM was. Though I have a tendency to like strange things.

...And somehow I originally wrote "has" instead of "have." Must be too much lolcats.

[Mega]

It just wouldn't be SatAM without them, though. :/ And personally, I like SatAM especially FOR its characterization of Sonic.

[Zanoh]

Have Robotnik engage in action more often like he did in the games, and have Tails do more shit. Antoine is awesome, but for christ's sake get rid of the mini-episodes, and Dulcy. At least the comics made her tolerable by getting rid of her running gag.

Other than that, I can't think of much else to fix! Knuckles would have been a pretty neat addition, though.

I agree with Jake here.

[Eileanach]

Yeah Jake has it going on he knows what makes SatAM count! If only we could all go back in time and make SatAM more awesome.

Although... without changing the original story too much I would also like to see it "end".

Edited March 26, 2009 by Eileanach