What would you like to see in a 3D Sonic game?

[Mort]

I've been a Sonic fan pretty much all my gaming life. I remember one year I was at a relative's house for Christmas and got a copy of Sonic the Hedgehog 2 for a present, and subsequently pestered my mother into buying a Genesis for me and went on to enjoy the gaming bliss that was Sonic 2, and later I got into Sonic 1, and Sonic 3 and Knuckles. I've stayed a fan ever since then. That said, one has to admit that Sonic hit the polygon ceiling about as hard as a video game character can without managing to die completely. SA1 and 2 were both fairly good games and I enjoyed them very much back in the Dreamcast era. Recently I've bought a Wii and tried Sonic Unleashed and I think its a pretty good game, I do have a few problems with them and I will go into those in a little bit. With the news of a new 2D Sonic game, it looks like Sega is going to be putting 3D Sonic on the back burner for a little while and perhaps they will sort out some problems.The purpose of this post is go into what I would like to see in a 3D Sonic game and what I feel works and doesn't work. I also hope the community will contribute ideas as well.

1. Working out the problems with including Sonic's friends.

A lot of people dislike Sonic's friends. I think the root cause isn't the friends in themselves, but the fact that the existence of characters other than Sonic almost always means sudden genre change from what players want to see. I truly feel that more than anything else, that Sonic Team should go back to the Genesis era design of side characters. They play very similar to Sonic with a few minor changes that effect how they progress through the levels. Tails could fly, allowing him to platform easier than Sonic and there were additional routes only available to him. Knuckles could break through walls and climb. This provided enough of a difference for them to be more than just clones of Sonic, but their additional powers could allow for areas only they could explore keeping gameplay unique to the character, but they still shared many of the same abilities so there wasn't a radical shift in genre change.

I think new Sonic games in the future should use this philosophy. All playable characters should be able to run at speeds close enough to Sonic's to the point where they can navigate most of the same level. Sonic(As well as Shadow and maybe a playable Metal Sonic because Metal Sonic rocks) has the homing attack and light speed dash, allowing him to move across pits that Knuckle's Gliding / climbing and tail's flying can't get them through and vice versa. Characters should also have their unique final bosses. If additional characters are done in this manner, I think people wouldn't be upset at the idea of Sonic's loads and loads of characters bleeding into the gameplay because it still stays fairly close the the genre players want. Most Players who dislike the supporting cast wouldn't really mind if Cream or Espio or anyone else were in the game they were similar enough to Sonic's speed game play.

2. Enemies.

I think the philosophy of enemies in the game should be reexamined. The mooks in Sonic aren't so much as threats as much as they are additional platforms he needs to homing attack to. While this is fine some of the time, its become far too prevalent lately. Sonics enemies need to be a threat. They need to be set up in such a way where they won't slow down experienced players by means of killing them while on the go or just being able to avoid them if the player is good enough.

3. Controls.

While I feel Unleashed is a step in the right direction in several areas, I dislike the fact that Sonic is completely unable to go slow in that game during the day time levels. Because of it it makes Sonic pretty much unable to platform which is supposed to be a key element in his game play. I think that the controls were better in the Adventure games. The way I see it is that Sonic should be able to move both quickly and slowly depending on the situation. If he can go slow it can allow for more platforming and other options to diversify what the player is doing in levels. This is one topic I'm rather interested in hearing responses too.

4. Reintroduce special stages, allowing Sonic and co. to gather the Chaos Emeralds at the player's own prerogative, and in doing so will unlock super mode and perhaps hidden final levels for them.

Personal grip and I'm probably in the minority, but I do miss this aspect of Sonic.

5. Level Design.

I think unleashed has some of the best aspects of 3D sonic, with a few problems. The levels well done as, and I liked the switches from 2D&3D. I also liked the reintroduction of adding additional routes. If you're quick you can jump on a rail that will take you to the goal quicker, but if you miss you have to take a slightly longer route. I do feel that more variety can be done with the stages. Each stage should have a gimmick of some sort, or perhaps an aspect of game play slightly more used than in others. Icecap and Holaska had snowboarding / bobsled parts respectively. Final rush had an emphasis on rail grinding. Eggman Land was almost Nintendo Hard. The best stages have something that makes the unique to them in my opinion, more should be done to make stages a little bit different from one another.

6. Perhaps Unlockable Alternate Characters.

Like I said, Shadow is really popular and I dig Metal Sonic quite a bit. Perhaps allow players to unlock them and take them through Sonic's routes. Fan service is a good thing if you can balance it without allowing it to distract from game play or story.

7. Let us call him Robotnik again!

Personal gripe, at the very least you can go back to the Adventure Style where his name is Dr. Robotnik, but Sonic and Co. mock him by calling him Eggman. I will say that Unleashed's characterization of him was my favorite characterization of him in any game to date. Silly, but bad ass enough to devise a way to take down Super Sonic himself. Cunning and evil, but a hint of an almost friendly rivalry between him and Sonic.

If I can think of other things I'd like to see or changed, I'll add them to this post. If you stuck around, thanks for reading my post and please comment and share ideas.

Edited December 18, 2009 by Mort

[Dr. Mechano]

7. Let us call him Robotnik again!

Personal gripe, at the very least you can go back to the Adventure Style where his name is Dr. Robotnik, but Sonic and Co. mock him by calling him Eggman. I will say that Unleashed's characterization of him was my favorite characterization of him in any game to date. Silly, but bad ass enough to devise a way to take down Super Sonic himself. Cunning and evil, but a hint of an almost friendly rivalry between him and Sonic.

He was always Eggman in Japan. Sonic Adventure's English dub clumsily introduced the "mockery" explanation.

In the original Japanese script, he introduces himself proudly by saying "I am Dr. Eggman, the true form of genius." (Which is more or less his catchphrase in Japan, used in Adventure, Adventure 2, Sonic X, and misc. promotional material)

Accepting the merging of the two stories, but discrediting SA1's wildly inaccurate dub (As it doesn't mesh with future games), and you're left with the far more sensible explanation that Dr. Ivo Robotnik is his real name, with Eggman as his self-chosen villainous alias. "Eggman" was never an insult, but a name that he chose for himself. (Though before the storyline merge in Japan causing various retcons to both continuities, it essentially was his name.)

Dr. Ivo Robotnik, with "Eggman" as an alias of his own choosing rather than of Sonic's design, is the canon explanation for Eggman's naming hijinks.

[Rusty Spy]

1. Working out the problems with including Sonic's friends.

A lot of people dislike Sonic's friends. I think the root cause isn't the friends in themselves, but the fact that the existence of characters other than Sonic almost always means sudden genre change from what players want to see. I truly feel that more than anything else, that Sonic Team should go back to the Genesis era design of side characters. They play very similar to Sonic with a few minor changes that effect how they progress through the levels. Tails could fly, allowing him to platform easier than Sonic and there were additional routes only available to him. Knuckles could break through walls and climb. This provided enough of a difference for them to be more than just clones of Sonic, but their additional powers could allow for areas only they could explore keeping gameplay unique to the character, but they still shared many of the same abilities so there wasn't a radical shift in genre change.

I think new Sonic games in the future should use this philosophy. All playable characters should be able to run at speeds close enough to Sonic's to the point where they can navigate most of the same level. Sonic(As well as Shadow and maybe a playable Metal Sonic because Metal Sonic rocks) has the homing attack and light speed dash, allowing him to move across pits that Knuckle's Gliding / climbing and tail's flying can't get them through and vice versa. Characters should also have their unique final bosses. If additional characters are done in this manner, I think people wouldn't be upset at the idea of Sonic's loads and loads of characters bleeding into the gameplay because it still stays fairly close the the genre players want. Most Players who dislike the supporting cast wouldn't really mind if Cream or Espio or anyone else were in the game they were similar enough to Sonic's speed game play.

The real reason most people dislike the supporting cast is not because they cause a genre shift in the gameplay, but mainly because they, well, are just in the whole "There should only be Tails, Knuckles and Amy!" or "Sonic shouldn't have no shitty friends!" Nowadays, whether a new character is actually playable or not in a game doesn't matter, some people are still gonna bash them just because there are a lot of characters already. Look at the Advance games. Cream's gameplay was just how you described, "They play very similar to Sonic with a few minor changes that effect how they progress through the levels", yet most people still hate her.

Aside from that, everything else, besides #7, I mostly agree with.

[BaronSFel001]

1. Working out the problems with including Sonic's friends.

A lot of people dislike Sonic's friends. I think the root cause isn't the friends in themselves, but the fact that the existence of characters other than Sonic almost always means sudden genre change from what players want to see. I truly feel that more than anything else, that Sonic Team should go back to the Genesis era design of side characters. They play very similar to Sonic with a few minor changes that effect how they progress through the levels. Tails could fly, allowing him to platform easier than Sonic and there were additional routes only available to him. Knuckles could break through walls and climb. This provided enough of a difference for them to be more than just clones of Sonic, but their additional powers could allow for areas only they could explore keeping gameplay unique to the character, but they still shared many of the same abilities so there wasn't a radical shift in genre change.

I am going to have to greatly dissent on this one. Going back to playing Sonic 3 & Knuckles, it began to wear on me that going through the same levels with only slightly different characters time after time makes beating the game feel more like a chore. The additional routes do not cut it, since the variety added is only so much (though much moreso for Knuckles). I think character-specific levels to accommodate character-specific moves, an approach taken in Sonic Adventure and beyond, is the best one. Because otherwise, the gameplay starts to feel redundant even with different characters and routes, at least in my experience.

I feel personally that if 3D Special Stages are executed by the Sonic Heroes standard, I would rather they be done away with altogether. I would not at all mind a system like the 8-bit versions of the first two Sonic games in which the Chaos Emeralds are out in the world waiting to be found, but that progress could be barred due to missing them (the fact that the Chaos Emeralds are automatically found in the course of the story does take away the sense of accomplishment, which I think is where you are coming from). Despite the blow to challenge it would likely bring, I do not think I would mind the ability to transform into Super forms in regular gameplay either.

Please, everyone, drop the Robotnik thing. I for one cannot understand how a simple name can be such a big deal. He is officially Robotnik, so you have every right to think of him that way. In any case, "Eggman" has 1 fewer syllable, rolls off the tongue much better, and sounds more sinister (in a cartoon villain sort of way).

[Semi-colon e]

What would I like to see in a 3D Sonic game?

A good plot that isn't too serious or too silly, I think SA1 nailed this. Alternate routes in levels with dozens of level specific gimmicks, again like SA1. However, there should be a fair bit of speed involved too. I would also like a mix of the sleek Sonic 06 robots here and there but overall a lot of animal and classic style robots. Some combat, but it is optional and just for points, as well as being not overly slow. An awesome soundtrack (not hard. A mix between surreal and more realistic levels, maybe even a combination of the two in most levels, like in SA1. Most levels spanning about 4-8 minutes.

Lack of alternate gameplay styles, except for different moves to get to different areas or even different levels with the same main objective (get to the goal ring). Eggman be the main villain at the end of the game for once, but as long as it suits the story and is awesome to play then I guess that can slide.

Level design would be a mix of 06/Adventure mainly, with not so many bottomless pits (considering White Acropolis and most of the SA1 levels). There would still be much speed involved, but it would be mainly controlled by you and your spin dash or whatever, so boost pads would be limited. As well as mentioned alternate routes and level specific gimmicks. And good controls lolololol.

Sounds pretty vague, but I can't think of much more to say. I just think each level should have it's own style and pace, like even in 06, White Acropolis had more exploration side while Crisis City just threw different kinds of playstyles that generally fit the core Sonic gameplay in. As for SA1, each section was different like in Speed Highway, or levels like Lost World that constantly changed it up. It must also be fun to play. In Shadow's game, they went too far realistic with the ark levels ie Lost Impact, and from what I can tell, Aquatic Base is also like this. I appreciate they're meant to be realistic style locations, but good level design is most important compared to realism.

Yeah, a couple of serious levels like Crisis City would make a welcome change if it weren't all GRIMDARK. Though I like that level anyway :x

But that's just my take

Edited December 18, 2009 by Semi-colon e

[azoo]

Watch out, kids. Lots and lots of words ahead (however most of them are under #1). Don't say I didn't warn you.

What I would like to see in a 3D Sonic game? Well, let's see...

1) BALL MECHANICS.

Sonic needs ball mechanics and physics back as the major point of his gameplay. Unleashed was doing rather good until they gave him the boost. Once Sonic was given the boost, Sonic didn't need to gain speed anymore, the boost gave him instant top speed. And attacks weren't needed (and enemies were made useless) since Sonic was mostly invincible while boosting, and could just smash through any enemy. And shields like the electric shield became useless since now the boost could attract rings too. But of course, the boost is hard to steer because of how fast it constantly sends you, so they have to make up new moves to aid it. Since you can't make sharp turns while boosting, they made the drift, and since you couldn't dodge stuff while boosting, they made the quick-step. Both of those moves could've been null and void if boosting didn't exist, since I've played Unleashed without boosting before (for the time I could without being forced to), and I had no problem dodging objects or making turns with the ordinary analog controls.

And if you do want speed, you're gonna have to find out that speed shouldn't just be given to you, because then they build the game to where it's all about using the speed they just hand to you. Part of the point behind the original games were to earn your speed, and try to keep it and even gain speed as you progress through the level. And the only real way to "earn" your speed is.. you guessed it, physics. It's simple. When running Sonic has a certain top speed he can't go over, which is easy to get to and keep holding (since he has a high acceleration and a low deceleration), but the top speed is only moderately fast. Physics fully affects Sonic's ability to pass certain level geometry, as if you go on an upward slope Sonic loses speed, and when going on a downward slope Sonic gains speed, yet when running only a small bit over his ordinary running top speed.

But then, there's a whole other layer behind that. A way to get to speed you had no idea you could reach. And it's under a whole new set of rules. Rolling. When in motion, rolling is just as it says: Sonic curls up into a ball and rolls. However, when rolling, physics doesn't just aid your movement, they make your movement. Physics are pushed up to the top degree, and you soon start to notice that Sonic is starting to function like a pinball... a whirling high-speed pinball of death, that is. When rolling, Sonic has no speed limit to his movement; it's almost never-ending. Sonic's rolling speed from the get-go depends on how much speed you put into running, which will transfer into your roll as it maintains that speed. However, now whenever you move on a downward slope, your speed dramatically increases, leading to absolutely satisfying results, which show you blazing across the ground at incredible speeds that even the Boost itself couldn't probably produce. Also, since Sonic maneuvers like a pinball in this mode, this also gives Sonic a streak of uniqueness from other "fast" characters-- the ability to go through certain areas much like a pinball as well, and even have sections like in Casino Night from Sonic 2. The reasoning behind the ability's pinball-like structure is the exact reason why the series contains objects like springs and bumpers, because surprise surprise, pinball machines have those things too. And while people may try to say that the Spin Dash is the same thing as the Boost, yet having to stand still first, is wrong, since the Boost will instantly and constantly send you at the same speed, while the Spin Dash will shoot you off a high-speed launch, but will let ball mechanics do the rest of the work, leaving the level geometry and your input depend on the speed Sonic goes.

tl;dr Sonic needs to have physics, momentum, and the ball mechanics to return into his gameplay, because it was rewarding, it made him unique, and most importantly, it was incredibly fun. Some people may suggest that it wouldn't work in 3D, but I don't understand how it wouldn't.

2) MORE PLATFORMING AND EXPLORATION, LESS HOLD X AND TRIAL & ERROR.

Don't lie about this, people. Sonic Unleashed didn't contain nearly any alternate routes. The game was focused on moving forward by boosting constantly and pressing the right buttons the screen told you to, either so you get a good ranking, you could progress, go to a shortcut that would last up to five seconds in length, or that you don't die. Sonic was a platformer game, not a racing game with a jump button and quick-time events. As the "platforming" title suggests, Sonic should also be known for jumping from platform to platform (or landmass to landmass for that matter), jumping on enemies, and using gimmicks to do things as well (like pushing blocks, pulling levers and using objects that take advantage of your speed). And what's a platformer without exploration? I would like to see Sonic used in more open-space areas where he could use his speed to interact with the environment (because really, who said being fast meant constantly moving forward?). More platforming and exploration could invite extra routes for Sonic to take, leading to more ways to get to the end of a level, or heck, even having it where there's multiple exits! It could make the stages very fresh and lead you to find something new every time you play it.

3) CARTOONINESS, SIMPLICITY, AND NOSTALGIA.

This is something I've always thought the Mario series did good, and I believe Sonic (while not directly copying them) should take a lesson from them about how to handle things: Simple. Short, sweet, and to the point. KISS (Keep it simple, stupid). So many ways to say it, but they all mean the same thing. Sonic has lost his timeless charm over the years, only to fall short as becoming something only little kids obsessed with Saturday morning EXTR3333M cartoons want (really, I mean it, look at what Sonic X did to Sonic). Since that's become the case ever since then, Sonic's point-of-existance since the days of SA1 has been to keep a "cool factor" with the kiddies (SA1 did it by giving everyone AAWWSUUMMM stretchy redesigns, SA2 became something more edgy and dark, Heroes was as kid-friendly and as "friendship-powered" as Sonic X, Shadow was darker was DOUBLE DARK AND EDGEH WITH GUNS AND ANGST, Nextgen was melodramatic and overly realistic and a FF ripoff). Unleashed got close to being Sonic status again, showing us an almost AoSTH-esque storyline to the game. Yet, the game was still filled with a little too much explanation and focus on new characters that were created as padding and replacement for the use of other characters, and (yes, dare I say it) a little too much talking involved. Sonic needs to be a series where not much is said (besides from Eggman), and that actions speak louder than words. And while I like the fact we have Pixar-esque human characters, I would love it to death if they were to also add in anthro "Sonic-styled" NPCs as well, along with the Flickies and the other "woodland creatures". Plus, I never thought of it as a good idea for Sonic to have a realistic world. Sonic needs a world of his own; a world with crazy patterns all over the ground, blue skies and bluer hedgehogs. Badniks return ftw, and Eggman remains the villain all the way through, with a new wacky scheme every time. Characters in a story are kept on a downlow, and should only truly require Sonic (and maybe Tails since he's his sidekick / best friend).

..and that's all I have to say. If Sega could keep it like that in a 3D Sonic, I would love them forever.

[Teoleulbogo]

What I want in a 3D Sonic game:

1)They have to find a way to balence the speed and the platforming, I love the beautifuly fast paced day levels in Unleashed but I kept asking my self "Is that it" until I got to the last level there was realy no chalenge to the day stages at all.

2)If they decide to make a gimmick for the game it should be something small and unintrusive but still well developed, personaly I would enjoy if they chose to go with level specific gimmicks instead of a full game gimmick.

3)This is realy more about the writing and diolouge than the gameplay itself. I've noticed that in recent 3D games that Sonic is realy rather losing his personality, so to speak. I mean, Sonic personality in a nut shell is: A cocky, strong willed, and helpful free-spirit who will alwayse strive to do what he think is right, but it seems that is just not the case. In Unleashed and Black Knight there were a few good moments but not enough. In the next game I wouldn't mind seeing more scenes of Sonic heckeling Eggman or going out of his way to help someone even though it may hinder his overall quest. to sum up I want Sonic to act like Sonic.

well, thats about it, that would honestly be the perfect 3D Sonic game for me.

[Phos]

He was always Eggman in Japan.

And he was always Robotnik in America

Sonic Adventure's English dub clumsily introduced the "mockery" explanation.

In the original Japanese script, he introduces himself proudly by saying "I am Dr. Eggman, the true form of genius." (Which is more or less his catchphrase in Japan, used in Adventure, Adventure 2, Sonic X, and misc. promotional material)

Accepting the merging of the two stories, but discrediting SA1's wildly inaccurate dub (As it doesn't mesh with future games), and you're left with the far more sensible explanation that Dr. Ivo Robotnik is his real name, with Eggman as his self-chosen villainous alias. "Eggman" was never an insult, but a name that he chose for himself. (Though before the storyline merge in Japan causing various retcons to both continuities, it essentially was his name.)

Dr. Ivo Robotnik, with "Eggman" as an alias of his own choosing rather than of Sonic's design, is the canon explanation for Eggman's naming hijinks.

They never call him "Robotnik", it hasn't been spoken out loud since Adventure 1.

[Dr. Mechano]

They never call him "Robotnik", it hasn't been spoken out loud since Adventure 1.

His grandfather is Professor Gerald Robotnik, so named in Sonic Adventure 2, therefore logic dictates that his surname is also Robotnik.

Unless you want to make a case that Gerald Robotnik was his maternal grandfather and that "Eggman" is his actual last name, which would just be silly.

[BaronSFel001]

His grandfather is Professor Gerald Robotnik, so named in Sonic Adventure 2, therefore logic dictates that his surname is also Robotnik.

It should be obvious what was intended from the fact that, while Sonic Team could have conceivably used any name, they decided to add to the Robotnik family tree. Besides, does Gerald and Maria Eggman sound awkward or what?

[Phos]

His grandfather is Professor Gerald Robotnik, so named in Sonic Adventure 2, therefore logic dictates that his surname is also Robotnik.

Unless you want to make a case that Gerald Robotnik was his maternal grandfather and that "Eggman" is his actual last name, which would just be silly.

You completely missed my point. The word "Robotnik" hasn't come out of Sonic's or anyone else's mouth since Adventure 1.

[Dr. Mechano]

You completely missed my point. The word "Robotnik" hasn't come out of Sonic's or anyone else's mouth since Adventure 1.

"It's... It's my grandfather! Gerald Robotnik!"

~ Dr. Eggman, SA2

"Professor Gerald Robotnik, one of the greatest scientific minds in the world... and my grandfather!"

~ Dr. Eggman, SA2

It was spoken out loud twice in Sonic Adventure 2, and unlike SA1, this includes the Japanese audio as well. Your point was not missed; It's just factually incorrect.

Edited December 18, 2009 by Dr. Mechano

[azoo]

3)This is realy more about the writing and diolouge than the gameplay itself. I've noticed that in recent 3D games that Sonic is realy rather losing his personality, so to speak. I mean, Sonic personality in a nut shell is: A cocky, strong willed, and helpful free-spirit who will alwayse strive to do what he think is right, but it seems that is just not the case. In Unleashed and Black Knight there were a few good moments but not enough. In the next game I wouldn't mind seeing more scenes of Sonic heckeling Eggman or going out of his way to help someone even though it may hinder his overall quest. to sum up I want Sonic to act like Sonic.

Me and you must think of Sonic differently. I see the Sonic you're talking about all too often nowadays. He seems to to wanna be that "goody-two-shoes" kind of character that wants to help and befriend everybody he meets. I've always seen Sonic as the way he was in the OVA (and the Fleetway comics): an arrogant, cocky guy who does what he wants when he wants to, even if it makes him look like a butthole to everybody. He lives life by his own rules, and doesn't tolerate people getting in his way whenever he wants to get the job done. However, it's in his will to fight for good when he's needed, and he has the feeling that he must help his friends no matter what the consequences are.

[Phos]

"It's... It's my grandfather! Gerald Robotnik!"

~ Dr. Eggman, SA2

"Professor Gerald Robotnik, one of the greatest scientific minds in the world... and my grandfather!"

~ Dr. Eggman, SA2

It was spoken out loud twice in Sonic Adventure 2, and unlike SA1, this includes the Japanese audio as well. Your point was not missed; It's just factually incorrect.

They were talking about Gerald, not Ivo. I don't care about Gerald.

[Dr. Mechano]

They were talking about Gerald, not Ivo. I don't care about Gerald.

Hold it, Phos. You said that "The word "Robotnik" hasn't come out of Sonic's or anyone else's mouth since Adventure 1." You didn't specify that it had to be about Ivo; However, this is a moot point.

If Gerald's last name is canonically Robotnik, then it more or less confirms that Eggman's real name is also Robotnik. Isn't that valid enough proof of his canonical surname for you? I don't see what the issue is; Eggman's a supervillain, and goes by his supervillain name rather than his real one. It stands to reason his real name won't be used all that often.

[Phos]

Hold it, Phos. You said that "The word "Robotnik" hasn't come out of Sonic's or anyone else's mouth since Adventure 1." You didn't specify that it had to be about Ivo; However, this is a moot point.

If Gerald's last name is canonically Robotnik, then it more or less confirms that Eggman's real name is also Robotnik. Isn't that valid enough proof of his canonical surname for you? I don't see what the issue is; Eggman's a supervillain, and goes by his supervillain name rather than his real one. It stands to reason his real name won't be used all that often.

The issue is they don't call him Robotnik. I don't care that I can deduce via his family tree or find it in the manual or on the Internet,, I want them to say it.

[JezMM]

^ How about Robotnik Corp. being Eggman's extreme gear manufacture company in Riders 1?

Okay never mind, that's not them saying it. Still, that is a clear in-game reference.

For me, here's a few things I want:

1. Start the level after the loading screen then give us the title card for the level, Ikaruga style, and in sync with the music. It's epic and whenever I imagine "perfect Sonic games" in my head, the levels always start like this (I often imagine Sonic levels while listening to appropriate music). For those who haven't played Ikaruga, here's what I mean:

(only the first minute or so - just enough to see what I mean by "a bit of level, then level title, then the rest of the level".

2. For storyline, multiple levels in one location. I would have loved it if Unleashed had given us a reason to hang around in each country and play all the unlockable levels as part of the story with unique reasons to visit these places. I think it would have evened out the ratio of day gameplay to night gameplay too.

3. I like the multiple act structure, if only for remixed visuals/music on Act 2's. Just don't sacrifice story for the formula like you did in Heroes.

4. LOVED the hub worlds in Sonic Unleashed, but make them less formulaic next time. No magical unexplained medal powered teleports to enter levels, more rockfalls or malfunctioning cannons to clear/fix to reach the levels please. Reward exploration and puzzle-solving more than with medals too. The unlockable levels were a bit too easy to find on Unleashed in most places. Also don't seperate the NPC areas from the level hubs. Finally: If people complain hub worlds are boring and they just want to get into the action, you've made the hub worlds wrong. As said, I loved them in Unleashed, but they could have been way more engaging - I understand the dislike.

5. If you're doing an epic story, keep us in the action. There should be no point that Sonic does something cool that we don't control, even if it's a QTE. I really like the idea of having off-screen characters doing stuff storyline-related DURING levels using split-screen or picture-in-picture effects for some reason. A storyline that keeps Sonic on an epic race against the threat that leaves NO TIME for standing around with cut-scenes (keep him in radio contact with Tails perhaps?) would be awesome.

Edited December 18, 2009 by JezMM

[Viku]

hmmm, what I want in a 3D sonic game? A lot of your have said some interesting ideas, so here goes what I would like to see:

1)Mix a little bit more of plataforming. While speed will always be the main thing in Sonic's gameplay, there should be some small moments when you must slow down and do a few jumps. I stil believe Sonic should have some kind of "break button" so he could slow down slowly till stop (so suddenly shifting from super hyper fast to stop dosen't feel so forced).

2)More interactions between characters. I gotta prise Unleashed for giving us so great interaction between Sonic and Chip, sadly a lot of people hated the little flying dog/fairy/thingy. So simple solutions: Do the same but with Sonic characters people like? I would have loved to see more interaction between Sonic and Tails as they share a great frienship bond and still have diferent likes and ways of think. I do have ideas of good interaction for a game that will stated later in this post.

3)Small gimmicks on stages. That's something I liked from the old games. Little things that made stages diferent to the others. They actually did it with Cool Edge in Unleashed and man it works more than a full game gimmick...

4)Other but still enjoyable gameplay types.It may sound like opposing to what I said on 3 and , but I'm gonna be honest here. SEGA will try and try to put something besides fast sonic gameplay in their games. But if they must do that try to take youyr type on it (like the werehog stages) but also DON'T SHOVE IT DOWN OUR THROATS (Like the werehog stages. New gimmick or not, normal sonic gameplay must be the most important thing and the one who playes plays the most. I still believe beat em up gameplay can be cool: It would be perfect for someone like Knuckles!

5)More fun boss fights. I kind believe I ended up enjoying the werehog bosses more than the normal sonic bosses in unleashed. It seems SEGA foirgot that in the old school games most of the bosses didn't have high speed chases and even sonic moved slow on them. I didn't likedday boss fights in unleashed because they were always the same: run really fast, dodge the things that they throw at you, use boost, repeat. Night Boss battles had you doing more than that (Like the Dark Gaia Phoenix stage). It dosen't matter if the boss fights dosen't make you rush with adrenaline, it was that way in the past and people loved those boss fights!

6)A good story. I still believe incredibly dark stories dosen't fit the franchise and while I love the ploe of Unleashed with the friendly nature, I know people want more than that. I still believe the adventure games did it perfectly, giving you deep characters, stories that slowly started to reveal and a mix between light and dark.

7) More time to develop the game. The sonic franchise is the ONLY franchise I can think of that I wouldn't mind if they delay their games. Why? Because it would give more time for them to make a better game. Sonic 06 was rushed, and you people can't deny it. So even if I couldn't get the game sooner, I would be happy to hear them delay a release in order to perfect a game.

8) Eggman as the final boss. I really don't mind having a diferent villians from time to time (I still believe eggy was the main villian of unleashed and dark gaia was just a force...) but for once I want Eggman to surprise me. Having a secret weapon right under our heroes noses (like in Rush Adventure.)

I still dream of a game with Sonic, Tails and Knux as the main characters and Eggman as the main villian. Having those three interact with eachother in the way Unleashed did with their characters would be absolutly brilliant. Sonic would have the most amount of stages with fast but with little plataforming gameplay like in the past and from time to time shift into the other two (Making the sonic stages more than the others'): Knuckles would have a beat em up gameplay like the werehog stages but with wall climbing (which could lead to cool plataforming ideas) and a little bit of speed. Tails could have a gampley similar to the one he had on Adventure 1but without the racing and maybe some shooter elements.

[Octarine]

I'd like to see Eggman's name being used on a case-by-case approach. While "Eggman" is of course the name most people would address him by, I can imagine several characters who'd give us an opportunity to use his real name: Shadow, for instance, is basically a part of Eggman's family, so it wouldn't be out of the question for him to just call Eggman "Ivo". The GUN Commander might call him "Robotnik" out of a desire to not indulge his aspirations to supervillainy. So on and so forth.

It's the same way I mentioned feeling about the Tails/Miles Prower thing in another thread... there are circumstances where a nickname would be used and circumstances where it wouldn't. If the name Robotnik is going to make more appearances, it ought to be in situations where it makes sense and can bolster characterization. Just having Sonic start calling him Robotnik out of nowhere would be a bit jarring.

2. For storyline, multiple levels in one location. I would have loved it if Unleashed had given us a reason to hang around in each country and play all the unlockable levels as part of the story with unique reasons to visit these places. I think it would have evened out the ratio of day gameplay to night gameplay too.

3. I like the multiple act structure, if only for remixed visuals/music on Act 2's. Just don't sacrifice story for the formula like you did in Heroes.

I think there's an entirely different reason to use these things: if designing unique graphics for each level is too time-consuming (as I'm pretty sure has been mentioned), then giving each environment more than one act allows for more levels. Two acts with different gimmicks can feel entirely distinct in a way that two similarly-playing but visually different levels might not. The two acts of Blizzard Peaks in Rush Adventure, for instance, feel wildly different while looking fairly similar.

[Diogenes]

1. Working with the mechanics/theory of the Genesis games, but still willing to give the finger to the stubborn fans when they need to do something new.

There are few things about this fanbase that annoy me more than the attitude that all we need to do is get Sonic Team to look at the classics and suddenly they'll see the light and everything will be gumdrops and sunshine forever. Especially when the subject is 3D Sonics; for 2D, obviously if they just port the exact mechanics of the Genesis Sonics they'd have a competent (if uncreative) game, but if they're going to make a 3D game, they have no choice but to change or add to the formula. You cannot make a good 3D game by doing nothing but taking a good 2D game and adding another dimension. It does not work that way.

Now, I do love the Genesis games, and I would like them to look back, see what made them work, and see if they can use that to improve future games. But I also realize they need to do more than that to make a great game.

2. Better use of characters.

I don't agree that we have to limit ourselves to just Sonic, Eggman, Tails, and Knuckles, or that we must never ever introduce more "shitty friends". I also don't think we need to force Tails and Knuckles into every game, regardless of whether they're of any use. Sonic, guaranteed. Eggman, aside from the rare SatBK sort of game, is always in. Everyone else? Rotate. Tails and Knuckles sometimes, Amy and the Chaotix others, maybe Tails, Rouge, and Blaze some other time. Don't force characters in just because they "should" be there, don't ditch characters before you've made the effort to make them likable, and actually put some thought and effort into how the characters are used.

3. More control.

The 3D Sonics have had a lot of flashy stunts, but most of them are of the "sit back and watch Sonic be cool" nature. Bounce off these prearranged springs, run on this wall (and not any other one in the level), go around this completely automated loop...it looks nice the first time, not so much the next dozen times. Stop using the scenery to force the player where you want them to go; design it so that the player can use it to get where they need to go. If the player knows they need to wallrun to move forward, they'll do it on their own, and gladly; you shouldn't need to force the player to play the game, and if you do, your game's got deeper problems than just that.

4. Let the player be Sonic.

Throwing in a bunch of gameplay styles that don't even look like they're from the same series, much less the same game, is not the way to do things. The occasional diversion to break things up is alright, and giving the gameplay a new twist from time to time is great, but trying to give equal time to several different gameplay styles when most people just want to play as Sonic isn't working. I don't play a turn-based RPG for the fast paced action, I don't play Mario for the FPS multiplayer, and I don't play Sonic for the mech shooting, fishing, plodding telekinetic, or brawler. What I'm saying is, stick with Sonic gameplay. The rolling, the running, the bopping robots on the head. Base the other characters around this, if they're to be playable; don't build something entirely new for every other guy.

5. Let Eggman be threatening.

Seriously the guy gets slapped down in every game now. I'm not even necessarily against the giant monsters; just let Eggman be in control, k?

[Mort]

I'd like to see Eggman's name being used on a case-by-case approach. While "Eggman" is of course the name most people would address him by, I can imagine several characters who'd give us an opportunity to use his real name: Shadow, for instance, is basically a part of Eggman's family, so it wouldn't be out of the question for him to just call Eggman "Ivo". The GUN Commander might call him "Robotnik" out of a desire to not indulge his aspirations to supervillainy. So on and so forth.

It's the same way I mentioned feeling about the Tails/Miles Prower thing in another thread... there are circumstances where a nickname would be used and circumstances where it wouldn't. If the name Robotnik is going to make more appearances, it ought to be in situations where it makes sense and can bolster characterization. Just having Sonic start calling him Robotnik out of nowhere would be a bit jarring.

I'm surprised how much discussion has erupted just by me saying that I think Robotnik is a better bad guy name. I think it'd be fine if some characters would use his real name, like Shadow.

[Indigo Rush]

Seeing as I like to be lengthy and specific with these concepts and ideas, I'll warn you in advance that this post is not for light readers.

First off, an overview. I'm going to be comparing Sonic to Mario quite a bit, not because they're past rivals or anything, but because Mario is a solid and good example of a traditional 3D platformer. That being said, let's begin.

Both Mario and Sonic started off as 2D sidescrollers, but Sonic was vastly different in that he had a greater speed and momentum to his movement. It took a while to pick up, but soon enough Sonic was blast processing his way through green hills, shuttle loops and giant ramps for great thrills and adventure. Sonic was also blessed with his natural born ability to roll into a "sentient sawblade" and plow through countless robots at a time, and this is how his jumping ability functioned. Sure enough, Sonic changed a little during the Genesis era, ushering in some new moves to compliment his ability, mainly the spindash, insta-shield and the peel-out. Sonic's spinning ability let him reach new levels of speed that only the SEGA Genesis hardware could process at the time, and this ability was absolutely vital to give Sonic his hook over Mario. These "spinball mechanics," as I affectionately refer to them as, really set Sonic apart from other platforms. I don't think I need to breif you on this area of Sonic gameplay, so I'll continue ahead before your head explodes from stuff you probably know about already.

Flash forward to the late 90s, where Mario makes the great leap to the third-dimension in Super Mario 64. Being an instant success, the game utilized the third dimension and Mario's superhuman jumping abilities to their advantage, and made an intuitive and an exploration heavy environment. Now, this won't easily work for Sonic. Why is that?

This is because Sonic's greatest blessing soon becomes his greatest curse. Sonic's entire showcase was his ridiculous speed and spinball mechanics. This can't easily translate into the third dimension, and as seen in recent games, often doesn't. Not perfectly, at least. Games like Sonic Adventure came very close with the concept of a solid platformer, but Sonic's speed didn't seem special anymore. Surely he was fast, but not as fast as we remember him. Save for maybe Speed Highway, Sonic just didn't seem to carry the full potential he had in those wiry blue legs of his. Not only was this a problem, but slower playable characters like Amy Rose or E-102 Gamma seriously bogged down the thrill factor of the Sonic series, and also ushered in a rather unwelcome trend of alternative gameplay that only serves to lengthen the gameplay time and probably make Sonic out to be faster than he actually is in comparison. And not only that, but the spinball mechanics are reduced to a bare minimum of use in the 3D titles, eventually fading out of existence altogether with our next example...

Flash forward to Sonic Unleashed, and then we finally see Sonic at his fastest. Or so we think. In-game, this is certainly his speediest platformer to date, but then a new problem arises... now it seems like just a running game. Sonic became a car with a conscious, and although he could quick-step, stomp, slide, ring dash, grind, wall-jump and thankfully jump, he lacked that one important element that helped define not only his personal hook, but his species.

Spinning. Spindashing, whatever you want to call it. It was totally absent from this title, as was the other all important factor of platforming games... control. Sonic was impossible to platform with at a slow pace in this game. This game had speed in mind, and this is more obvious with the addition of the "Sonic Boost" attack, automatically bringing Sonic to his top speeds, even managing to make holding the analog stick up to run forward utterly useless. Wow.

But here's the kicker, the game was still very enjoyable. Sonic's sense of thrill was revived in this title, but at the expense of spinning and intricate platforming which was present in Sonic Adventure.

See a pattern? Here we have Sonic Adventure, with mild speed, immersive platforming and control, and whatever remains of the spinball mechanics, but often lacked the thrill element that kept Sonic alive back in the early 90s. Sonic was fast, but not as fast as we knew he could go, and the entire concept of inertia and momentum seemed almost nonexistant in this title. Sonic Unleashed on the other hand makes platforming an utter chore, entirely removing any trace of rolling that defined Sonic, but then adds that ever necesarry thrill and excitement that Sonic was known for in his early years, and even manages to reach the half-point of his canonical top speed, and also introduces a set of new mechanics that aren't exactly unwelcome to the franchise. Sonic's never been flashier, and a majority of his moves do compliment his speed abilities.

If Sonic is to gain the full effect that he's famous for, he needs to incorporate both styles of play into his games. Do you realize how difficult this can be? Speed and platforming don't work well together in 3D on the surface, and Sonic's outtings in the past decade are proof of that.

However, I don't like to think things are impossible, and I've been thinking of a system to incorporate both styles of play into Sonic's gameplay style. Hang on to your Super Sneakers, we're going to go through with this one with BLAST PROCESSING.

First and foremost, Sonic needs a base playing style, and Sonic Adventure had that down almost to the extent that it was an art. Sonic wasn't too fast to not be able to platform, and was able to do many other platforming staples such as jumping (duh), climbing ladders, side-stepping (see the first part of Sky Deck) playing around on the monkey bars (Red Mountain, and Sky Deck) pick up and throw objects, and even introduced a Sonic-staple into the franchise, the Homing Attack. As we all should know, in a 3D environment, it's not easy to "hop-and-bop" badniks. The Homing Attack was a useful and appropriate way of utilizing Sonic's speed and spinning ability in the form of a basic attack, which proved very useful in a 3D environment. Not to mention being able to spindash and roll around at will. All of these elements should definitely be present in the "ideal" 3D Sonic, but there are some changes I would make. Oh yes, many changes. Grab a bubble shield, we're going to dive right into the innovation.

In my examples, I'm going to use the Xbox 360 controller as a base.

Sonic's free roaming moveset will, of course, utlize the left analog stick as basic movement, following the same acceleration stats as he did in Sonic Adventure. The right stick controls the camera. For now, the shoulder buttons don't do anything for Sonic, but the Left and Right triggers (LB and RB) will have Sonic do the same side-step maneuver in Unleashed, and will do the same thing while standing still in the previously mentioned game. When Sonic is running along at mild speeds, he does a dodging manouver, but not a very effective side step. This actually hinders his speed a little, so the player needs to use it with caution. The ( B ) button will be used in the same light as in Unleashed, and used as a crouch feature, but touch that analog stick while crouching and Sonic then starts to rev up for a spindash! Oh, isn't this a delicious moveset? While crouching, hold the left analog stick in the direction you want Sonic to blast off to, the farther you push the stick, the more he charges his laser spindash. Let go of ( B ) and watch him go! Setting it to neutral puts him back at a crouch. Tap ( B ) while walking or running, Sonic then rolls into a ball, like he should've been doing all this time. Tapping the ( B ) button again while rolling brings Sonic back upright into a running motion, carrying the momentum with him. When crouching, pressing the (X) button lets Sonic do a short slide, which carries the same mechanics as the slide did in Unleashed, only less powerful. Using the (X) button while not moving lets Sonic do a somersault ala Sonic Adventure 2. Didn't you miss that? While on the move, pressing (X) does the same thing, only Sonic is still running, although he loses a little bit of his momentum in the process. The (Y) button can be used to pick things up and throw them, and even carry them around. Pressing the (A) button while in the air initiates Sonic's iconic Homing Attack, with about the same power as it did in Unleashed, although about as effective as it was in Sonic Adventure when you don't have a target. This way, you're not blasting off a cliff. (which wouldn't be that common, anyway) Pressing ( B ) while in mid-air does the Stomp move from Unleashed, and pressing (X) while in mid-air brings back a little friend from the 90s... the Insta-Shield?! Why yes, with more power and effectiveness than ever before, I might add! It not only blocks projectiles, but it bounces them back right at the poor unsuspecting badnik! Now that's pretty nifty. There's also the Ring Dash (light speed dash) which is activated by pressing ( B ) in front of the rings. There'll be a target where a ring dash is possible, so you don't need to worry about accidentally Stomping when you meant to Ring Dash. Lastly, the skydiving thing from Unleashed should return as well.

But wait a minute, what about that thrill I was going on about? This seems fun and all, but Sonic doesn't sound very fast. So far, he just seems like a hurried platformer. Well hang on to your spines, things are about to get hectic.

Sonic, as you know, has a set acceleration rate. Once he reaches top speeds, he's not going to get much faster. Bollocks, I say. Sonic has every right to break the sound barrier if he wants, and I say we let him. But how the bloody heck is he going to reach 765 miles per hour with a control set like this, and how will we control him? The answer? Like Unleashed.

After Sonic reaches a certain top speed for a few seconds, the cleverly unmentioned Boost Bar will "unlock" and allow Sonic to turn his somersault into a Boost. The Ring Energy mechanics, unhindered side-stepping, drifting and Sonic Boost are now available! All it took was some practice and patience to get to that level of "Mach Speed" as I call it. Or maybe a dash panel. Hm.

Now, control doesn't stop there. Sonic had better keep that momentum up! Stopping completely will put him back to square one. Sonic's Mach Speed is only available as long as the speed bar is above the yellow area, Sonic can then use his Ring Energy for massive speeds. There will be special areas in the level for this mode of play, so don't freak out. Ah, but what of spinball mechanics? Well fear not! When Sonic' in Mach Speed, he can still roll using the ( B ) button. But here's a little idea... what if, while Sonic was boosting, you then went into a rolling maneuver? Speed euphoria happens. Sonic can't quick-step or drift when in ball mode, so you're going to have to switch it on and off to keep things up to speed, but that speed will be nonstop rewarding when you onlock it. Soon enough, Sonic will gain enough momentum to unlock another level of never before seen speed once you reach the red level of the speed bar. That's right, blokes. Sonic pulls a "Sonic Advance 2" on us and officially breaks the sound barrier against our own personal input. How the HECK are you going to control him now, you ask? The exact same way. Sonic still travels as fast as he does in-game, but not relationally. Do you see where I'm going with this? When Sonic reaches "Sonic Speed," time around him slows down to a half point. The enemies, obstacles, everything slows down, but Sonic still moves at the same pace in relation to the player. But relationally, Sonic's blasting off at SONIC SPEED, ZOMG. Also, Sonic sprouts that "Figure-Eight" running motion, to help remind you how awesome this is. While in Mach or Sonic Speed, Sonic can't wall jump, pick up items, climb latters and other moves that are better utilized in a more stationary moveset. Sonic can do a homing attack, though, although it'll cut his momentum a little. When grinding at that level of speed, Sonic retains the moveset from Unleashed as well. When he's not at top speed, it acts more like Sonic Heroes, only the physics are still prevolent, oh, and tapping ( B ) or (X) has the same effect when in regular speed, only it doubles as an attack. Pretty useful. But back to Mach/Sonic Speed... Ring Dashing is present too, but you need to be quick about it! Also, if Sonic gets hurt, he has a limited amount of time to boost back up to speed before he looses his tension... if he dawdles for more than 3-4 seconds, he's back to square one. But don't worry, it won't be too impossible to regain that speed if you truly are in a faster section of the level. Oh, and one more detail, when at Mach Speed and what not, the music tempo or drumbeat increases pace, because running to relaxing music doesn't always work.

Phew, all this talk about gameplay, and I have yet to touch the other characters! Well, I'll save that for another post. I'm going to move along with other vitally important aspects of a 3D Sonic.

First off, while gameplay is important, what's equally as important is level design, and with a control-scheme that's like what I mentioned, those level designers had better be oozing brilliance. The 2D-3D switcheroo would be present as was in Unleashed, and when in regular speed, Sonic would have the acceleration like he did in the classics, while maintaining a Rush level of speed when in Mach/Sonic speed. Eh, but anyway, there should be separate sections for each mode of speed. Can't have Sonic boosting around at the speed of sound when in a platforming section. The two modes would be streamlined, often in a Platform, Run to next area, Platform, Run to next area, repeat concept, only there would be alternate ways to go, the player deciding where they want to explore. Backtracking would be very possible, as well. More importantly, the ever popular pinball areas would make a triumphant return, especially in luscious 2D. Springs, spikes, rings, those weird shooting things from Rivals/Unleashed, dash panels (in moderation) shuttle loops, ladders, ramps, badniks, monkey bars, tubes, and maybe even snowboarding mechanics as well. Buttons to stomp, walls to jump, and I'm currently debating those Quick Time Events. They made some sense when doing massive wall-jumps, but the "Panel" system from Adventure seems to be a more formidable playstyle for that. As for the QTEs when in the air, maybe in moderatioan, and much more forgiving. I thought they were pretty fun (to an extent) and should be limited greatly, if not totally removed, for the sake of everyone else's annoyance with it. The trick ramps from Sonic Adventure 2 should return as well, gaining more points that way. The air hoops that dash Sonic forward should be there as well, and never forgetting the rainbow hoops that debuted in Heroes, for extra pointage. Yush. The little point system from Sonic Adventure 2 (where it went "COOL!" "RADICAL!" and so on) should also make a return. Just for aesthetic reasons, if not so you know when you're being COOL or RADICAL. Goal rings at the end of a level, too. That and a capsule at the end of a boss.

Also, I think Eggman should have a change in heart, and switch back to those poor little animals as a power source for his COLORFUL AND INTERESTING badniks, not just for nostalgic purposes, but because you gotta feed your Chao something.

That's right, I suggested it.

Chao Gardens, along with those large hub worlds should make a return. Whether or not you need a Chao Key to get in is something I have yet to figure out. But one things for sure, with this awesome technology, we can get some pretty cool Artificial Intelligence out of these creatures. Also, online Chao Race/Karate/Trading. You know you want it.

In the hub worlds, Sonic's speed would be capped to his regular speed, as there's no need to Sonic Boom around the place. Talking to colorful and cartoony folk in the city or jungle is certainly welcome, as long... AS LONG as the entrance to the levels are blatantly obvious, and there aren't any needless chores to be done in order to continue through the game. The sidequests (as introdued in Sonic 2006) would be entirely optional, with prizes ranging from things for your Chao to Emblems (which also make a return, yep.)

Story. There's been a lot of bad ones, and Sonic needs to... cut the seriousness a tad. But not too much... I mean, whereas Bowser kidnaps Peach, Dr. Eggman blows up freaking galaxies (see Sonic Battle) So there should be some degree of seriousness and deepness. Sonic Adventure 2 comes to mind as the ideal tone for a story, although some humor would be appreciated, just not over the top. Oh, and the less human-hedghog shipping, the better.

Environment-wise, the more surreal the better. Sonic's world is plenty diverse, and there are plenty of environments (Zones!) to explore and blast through. Plenty of color and variety are a major plus. The more exotic and random, the better. Also, checkered-hills are approved. Massively.

Music-wise, Sonic's doing pretty good. Just keep it up with the diverse genres. Oh, and I would NOT mind the traditional title theme to return, and I don't think anybody else will, either. If not, than you could probably deal with it. ;P

I also want to mention Bonus Stages. Sonic should get a shot at those Chaos Emeralds once more, don't you think? And what better way than in the form of a Special Stage! Special Stages are known for being diverse and innovative for every game, and the 3D titles would be foolish to leave them out. It's an alternate play style with a focus on speed and thrills. If Tails were to be playable (again, I'll discuss alternate characters in a later post) he would have his Tornado (SA1/Afterburner style) biplane shooter games, Knuckles could have a Punch-Out!! themed minigame, a whack-a-mole thing for Amy, and so on. As long as they aren't intrusive and mandatory... except maybe Sonic's Special Stages... if you want to unlock SUPER SONIC that is!

SUPER SONIC in-game. Plays as regular Sonic, except it's easier for him to reach Mach Speed/Sonic Speed and has greater acceleration. The only difference is, Sonic needs 100 rings this go round, if only because the levels will be littered with rings.

Speaking of rings, there are also items to discuss, hm? Item boxes should definitely return, along with Super Rings, Shields, Speed Sneakers, Invincibility, and 1ups. Since Sonic isn't always at Mach Speed, the invincibility and speed sneakers would have more of a use, especially if you want to reach those Mach Speeds at a faster rate without losing Ring Energy.

So this concludes... well, part 1. The next time I post I'll focus on alternate characters like Tails, Knuckles and Shadow.

Edited December 18, 2009 by Indigo Claus

[Phos]

^ How about Robotnik Corp. being Eggman's extreme gear manufacture company in Riders 1?

Actually, I'd kind of want it the other way around, keeping the Egg naming scheme for his things, but be called Robotnik. I don't know if my temper was flaring (Or people were voting me down because my opinion didn't precisely align with theirs), but I didn't mean to imply that Eggman should be removed from everyone's lexicon. For example, anyone who is scared or intimidated by him, doesn't know him by an alternative name, or is on his side would more likely call him Eggman. But I do think it doesn't make much sense for Sonic to call Robotnik by what in America is his self appointed nickname, it seems he would do the opposite.

Flash forward to Sonic Unleashed, and then we finally see Sonic at his fastest.

This depends on how you measure it. If you mean average speed, yes it would be the fastest, but given the right circumstances, Sonic could go faster in the Genesis games. In Sonic CD, that was as simple as getting a speed power up.

Spinning. Spindashing, whatever you want to call it. It was totally absent from this title, as was the other all important factor of platforming games... control. Sonic was impossible to platform with at a slow pace in this game.

This is because they nerfed his mid air mobility. They first made this change in Adventure 1. Ironically, I think they first made the change to make it easier to platform in 3D, when it really made it a lot worse. It still kind of worked, though, because the Homing Attack didn't send him so bizarrely far, so you could actually use it with some degree of precision.

That Boost Bar mechanic you talk about reminds me a lot of the console version of Star Wars Episode 1 racer. That game was kind of fun but also pretty annoying.

Edited December 19, 2009 by Phos

[Badnik Zero]

I'm in the camp that thinks that a proper translation of the classics in 3D makes a great game. It's not because I love the old games (and I do, but...) it's just that the things that made those games haven't been present in the last decade or so. There's been concepts that have worked in 3D like the boost, but these none of these really derive from the old formula. I wish we had a style Sonic Team wanted to stick to, so we could see Sonic gameplay evolve instead of getting discarded and replaced by bad ideas every other game. This is starting to sound negative, so I'll add some of my own ideas here. The series is missing some things that are basic to a 3D platformer. Open worlds are something the series has sidestepped since SA1, and funnily enough that first game was the most open of all the 3D games. Sonic's been taking the skinny path for too long, he needs wider areas and larger maps. If it has to be mission based, I don't think that's a terrible thing, especially if you make the flow linear. An idea of mine from earlier this year had Sonic staying in a single area, going through "acts", each time changing the level slightly with what he does until his job there is done. It encourages interacting with the level, gives the player a goal that's not linear but a mission that is, keeps the area fresh each act, and doesn't even require a hub world. I think we need some vertical action in the series. Sonic operates mostly on flat surfaces today, when in 1991 he was shooting off huge ramps in Green Hill. What's wrong with platforms in the sky? I remember some in Final Egg but falling killed me there. We should have some more secrets in the sky, hidden areas, long jumps off high things and so on. That kind of thing encourages pinball physics, Sonic doesn't even roll up walls anymore. Do hills and curves really make a better Sonic? That's exactly what they do. The 3D world I'm seeing in my head looks like a checkered skatepark with floating platforms and lots of vertical dimension. I'm also a big fan of a spherical level design as long as they're large enough, so you don't have to hit any invisible walls. We should have all sorts of levels in Sonic games, really. Even SatSR ones where you can't stop, since that's as classic as a special stage. Everything's got a place, and that's something Mario Galaxy realized if you noticed the smaller level sizes and single mission worlds in there. You can get linear if you feel like it, and that might even strengthen your game with variety, but Sonic needs some new tricks past his 20th birthday. I wanna get at the character problem as my last point. I feel like the characters question is so obvious it doesn't need to be asked. Playables don't have to be clones of Sonic, but they should at least complement his style. Maybe Link in a boat sounded stupid to some people, but they gave it a very Zelda flavor. Gamma shoots for example, but is he fast? If he is that's good. Is shooting difficult to do while moving fast? If so that's bad, like Shadow's main gimmick and it needs to be fixed. We shouldn't have to see slow mechs or werewolves collecting rings to remind us we're still playing Sonic the Hedgehog. These alternate gameplay modes are like expanded mini-games that feel like filler. I can enjoy mini-games, but my favorite part of the classics weren't the special stages if you know what I mean, and I wouldn't want a whole game full of them. If you wanted to call it a spin-off I'd love that, but the main titles in this series are bogged down with so much filler. Okay, so I'm gonna stop now. This isn't as long as Indigo's post, but I know this is gonna be longer since I started using the Sonical skin. Kudos to everyone who's reading these massive posts.

Edited December 19, 2009 by Cupcake Hedgehog

[AdventChild]

Some the things I would like to see in 3D would probably be:

1. Sonic only as the playable char. Well, because he is the main hero of the franchise, and the reason why we play the games, for Sonic.

2. Optional playable chars with good gameplay, not mandatory. I'm for diversity in gameplay, but when I need to play such and such char to expand or continue the story esp. when it is gameplay and char I don't like.

3. Great gameplay. Of course! Who doesn't want great gameplay? The type I like is SA1 where you can explore a bit and be able to control your speed at any time to slow down or speed up. Also, should have little to no gimmicks added in like Werehog, guns and vehicles, and etc, but at least they should be properly executed.

4. Char development for already existing chars. This really includes the original chars like Tails, Knuckles, and Amy and pretty much everyone else. It means that these chars have been simply put into the games just for being into the games, and should have greater purpose for plot development and do much more to their ability to contribute to the plot.

5. Limited new chars. We already have enough as it is that really need good plot development, and like we really need a new char in every game announced/released. If you're willing to introduce new chars, they should most likely be NPC, and items 2&4 on the list greatly adds into the char. If you want them playable then, make it optional, and if they're important to the plot, make them more than simple plot devices and make them well written ones with good character and a purpose for the story.

6. Little story, more action. I feel that today games should be like the Genesis, hardly any cutscenes and that you just play throughout the entire game like a quest with no breaks, and speed right through it. Though if there is going to be plot/story at least have well-written and well thought out, having it feel like a Sonic game, and a balance between light and dark elements, however, mostly lighthearted, but not too much. Also, it would be better with we don't have to bother with VAs as well. Action speak louder than words and silence is golden, ya know?

7. Eggman as main villain again. It is so repetitive and boring to have the same old formula of Eggman being tossed aside for some uncontrollable godzilla like monster, and would be great to see Eggman at the helm of main evil in the game through and through.

Edited December 19, 2009 by AdventChild