Slipping away...

[Blazey Firekitty]

OMG! OMG! That would make a GODLY RTS if done right. I could make a patch for Supcom to add the Eggman Empire as a faction, but it would be a mod patch... and it would have to replace the Seraphem.

You must construct addtional loops.^_~

[Gamenerd]

Wow. I guess I'm one of the very few who completly likes Sonic at this point, and who continues to buy every single Sonic game.

I guess unleashed didn't have quite the positive impact I thought it did.

I have to wonder, Are Sonic fans expectations too rigid?

Daytime unleashed was fast, had elements of platforming, and gave me the same rush I had with some of the classic games.

But people don't like it because it's 'too fast', because of qte's (understandable), and an arguably overpowered boost (also understandable). Some people also feel it's too realistic. (odd, because I found sa and sa2 to be preety realistic)

Daytime unleashed is not perfect, but to me, it has the polish and effort put into it that I thought fans were wanting. I am a bit baffeled as to what fans actually want.

I'm beginning to think that Sonic fandom will never be satisfied no matter how good of Sonic game comes out.

Other than Sonic 4 or a sa3, what do the fans actually want?

P.S. I have to get this out there. I have mixed feelings about Sonic going 'too fast.' I understand the concerns

of him going faster than humanly possible. But I also don't want him slowed down to the point of just being slightly faster than any other platformer.

You know, if the unleashed boost had more than one speed, a throttle of sorts, I think it would solve a lot of problems.

You're exactly right, the Sonic Unleashed daytime stages were amazing. And that's the problem.

The better the Sonic stages are, the more dissatisfying it is to see them broken up by filler like the Werehog. Simple as that.

[DarkDefeater]

That's another thing I baffeled about. Why do people dislike the werehog, but like treasure hunting and mech schooting?

I find the werehog to be many times more polished than treasure hunting or mech shooting ever were.

P.S. When I refer to the werehog, I refer to the 360 version. The wii version was quite untidy.

I would say more, but I have to work. Bye.

[ovarloard]

Yeah, shame the Wii version wasn't.

Seriosuly, the Wii version of Unleashed is the single most unfinished, unpolished and downright untidy Sonic game I've ever seen. Like I've said many a time, it was Wii Unleashed that actually made my faith in Sonic take a dent. Nothing had done that before, not even Shadow the Hedgehog. D= Although in fairness I never played '06.

Thankfully SatBK managed to buff out said dent, and now I'm just treating Wii Unleashed as an unfortunate little disappointment that hopefully won't be repeated any time soon.

Would you care to explain said dent? I agree that SatBK was better, but how was Unleashed Wii so bad?

I'm not trying to disagree with you, but I'd just like to know what exactly made your opinion so.

And now, my contribution to the topic. Kinda.

I'd like to see something like Little Big Planet's level editor, where you are Eggman, and the object is to create a harsh world that is as difficult as possible for Sonic to get through without dying. (I say without dying because if the object were to kill him, it'd probably be really easy; just get rid of a bunch of floor and make it a big, bottomless pit.)

[Saint Nathan]

I like all Sonic games. I'm not slipping away at all.

Of course, i'ma fanboy.

Every Sonic game has it's own... style to it, and they all have some fun in them, and I still love 'em.

Except ShTH, only for the emo faggotry.

Also, the controled sucked.

And '06, for obvious reasons.

[lounge]

Eh, sa2Battle hooked me to the characters, stories, and games.

The thing I think is missing in the new games is better story and character development. I'm sick of people saying, only to focus on Sonic. That makes everything a little too boring.

Another thing I think that absolutely needs to be fixed is gameplay polish. I don't understand why they can't take the gameplay in sa2, and polish it up for next gen consoles. Better physics, etc.

I've starting to slowly lose interest in sonic. He just doesn't seem as cool as he used to. But I'll still stick around. I'm too attached. Despite the sonic team still having strong, defining members such as Yuji Uekawa, Tetsu Katano, Takashi Iizuka, and Akinori Nishiyama, the series doesn't really have the direction I particularly enjoy at the moment.

[turbojet]

I loved Sonic Unleashed(HALF OF IT). Hated the rest of the new games. I wouldn't call myself a fanboy,but my faith in series is pretty strong. Hopefully ST will make like the rest of the company and start delivering.

[-Mark-]

Would you care to explain said dent? I agree that SatBK was better, but how was Unleashed Wii so bad?

I'm not trying to disagree with you, but I'd just like to know what exactly made your opinion so.

Well, basically, everything that was non-playable and non-cutscene in the game was a complete mess. Okay, they didn't include the hubs/ adventure fields (not that it wouldn't have been possible to make some scaled-down Wii ones). But what they did to replace them was nothing short of terrible. Clicking around icons on a static map screen and talking to still pictures of people. This was a game released in late 2008. Only handheld RPGs should be able to get away with that in this day and age, not a home console game. When I got to the point where I had to fight some still pictures of monsters in a QTE, I didn't know whether I wanted to laugh or cry.

Seriously, it's not like games need Adventure Field type things. SA2, Heroes and Shadow didn't have them, and neither do the storybook games, but it didn't make them feel cheap and tacky. But trying to include the hub areas as still images is, IMO, worse than removing them entirely and just forcing you along stage progression in the main story. It's not the gameplay as such that I had problems with, it's just the Wii version fell down so hard on presentation (and I mean it really bombed, IMO) that it dragged my overall opinion of the game down considerably.

Also it did bug me a fair bit how lightly the game took itself. I mean okay, at least it wasn't Shadow the Hedgehog or anything, but I mean, the world had been blown apart and most people were going about their daily lives. There was a greater level of panic and tension when Eggman shot the moon in SA2, for crying out loud.

Also, no Japanese voice option makes me sad. D=

[Ryan Brown]

Also it did bug me a fair bit how lightly the game took itself. I mean okay, at least it wasn't Shadow the Hedgehog or anything, but I mean, the world had been blown apart and most people were going about their daily lives. There was a greater level of panic and tension when Eggman shot the moon in SA2, for crying out loud.

Tension in Sonic is a bad thing, apparently. The "classics" had no tension.

[Blazey Firekitty]

Also it did bug me a fair bit how lightly the game took itself. I mean okay, at least it wasn't Shadow the Hedgehog or anything, but I mean, the world had been blown apart and most people were going about their daily lives. There was a greater level of panic and tension when Eggman shot the moon in SA2, for crying out loud.

Well, to be fair, Ice Cream Dude was having a nervous breakdown over it.

I figure it's complacency.

"Mommy, armageddon is here!"

"Don't worry dear, this happens every other month and Sonic the Hedgehog always saves us."

[libertyernie]

As long as Sonic games keep coming out pretty much every year, I'll keep trying them. There is always potential. (And that's what game rental is for!)

[ChaoticBlue]

Well, for the most part, I still really enjoy the new Sonic games (The only one I didn't enjoy that much was Sonic Riders (the original)), and, of course, if I still enjoy the games, I'm still going to be a fan of the series.

Edited March 20, 2009 by Chaotic Blu

[Totally]

Like everyone else here!I love Sonic as a character but with that crappy games(except Unleashed) I wouldn't call myself as a Sonic Fan!

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Tension in Sonic is a bad thing, apparently. The "classics" had no tension.

It's funny, the "classics" barely had shit for a story, and yet a lot of folks press on like it did, after what? Several years later when Sonic's "crisis" began?

Sonic 1 - no story, no nothing

Sonic 2 - barely any story, all of which only HIGHLIGHTED at the last level

Sonic 3 & Knuckles - had better zone transitions as we now know how Sonic gets from one place to another, but whatever story this game had was shifty. Although the Doomsday zone was the most climactic zone ever played at the time.

And now that years have went by we could finally piece together what ever story those games had. Except for Sonic 1, it never had a story to begin with besides "Eggman's evil! Go stop him!"

Edited March 20, 2009 by ChaosSupremeSonic

[BlueFlare]

I've liked most of Sonic games but there have been few ones that made me worried about Sonic's future. Anyway, Sonic Unleashed was the game that strengthened my hope of next generation Sonic games. I always loved all the 2D Sonic games, especially the first ones, Advances and the Rush series was pretty good, too.

[Scarlet2106]

I'm not enjoying Unleashed (both day and night stages, before someone immediately assumes that it's because of the night stages) as much as the older Sonic games (Sonic Rush Adventure backwards, excluding Sonic Rivals 1 & 2 because I don't like 'em and Sonic Riders 1 and 2 because I've not played them), but I've not exactly 'lost faith' in the series. I don't subscribe this mentality that everything is either brilliant or utter shit because it isn't tailored exactly to what I, as an individual, want.

[Phos]

It's funny, the "classics" barely had shit for a story, and yet a lot of folks press on like it did, after what? Several years later when Sonic's "crisis" began?

Sonic 1 - no story, no nothing - Eggman took over South Island to steal the Chaos Emeralds, and imprisoned Sonic's friends in Robots. You also might notice that as the game goes on, human influences are more and more noticeable (subtle environmental message get!)

Sonic 2 - barely any story, all of which only HIGHLIGHTED at the last level

Sonic 3 & Knuckles - had better zone transitions as we now know how Sonic gets from one place to another, but whatever story this game had was shifty. Although the Doomsday zone was the most climactic zone ever played at the time. - Sonic and tails go to investigate why the floating island fell, only to have Knuckles steal the chaos emeralds from them. Later on, Robotnik's deception is revealed in Hidden Palace Zone, and Knuckles becomes your ally.

Also, Sonic CD: Sonic travels to Never Lake to check out the Little Planet, but discovers that Robotnik has chained it to a mountain and intends to steal the Time Stones and use them to take over time. I find Amy's remake about how Sonic might outrun time to be one of the most interesting phrases in the entire franchise. Sonic CD also has a subtle environmental message.

[Indigo Rush]

Also, Sonic CD: Sonic travels to Never Lake to check out the Little Planet, but discovers that Robotnik has chained it to a mountain and intends to steal the Time Stones and use them to take over time. I find Amy's remake about how Sonic might outrun time to be one of the most interesting phrases in the entire franchise. Sonic CD also has a subtle environmental message.

Sorry Ryan, but you gotta hand it to those enclosed instruction books game manuals.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Sorry Ryan, but you gotta hand it to those enclosed instruction books game manuals.

The story can still be a muddy mess.

After the cutscenes, and the game manuals, it's really anyone's interpretation of the story.

[Indigo Rush]

After the cutscenes, and the game manuals, it's really anyone's interpretation of the story.

That's kind of what makes it a videogame. As simple as the storyline is, it's still a storyline, and it's provided for you right there. And the Japanese ones get even more in depth so much as to tell a story like it were a book.

[Phos]

A story that's open to interpretation is now a bad thing? Woops, guess that means that I'm going to have to add a a few games to my list of games with horrible storylines:

NiGHTS into Dreams...

Final Fantasy VII

Super Mario Galaxy

A few movies as well:

2001: A Space Odyssey

Planet of the Apes

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

A story that's open to interpretation is now a bad thing?

Depends...some people like an established story than one they feel they have to guess at and create explainations to. I'm just one of those people, I like to see tons of character interaction other than what I got in the Classics.

Woops, guess that means that I'm going to have to add a a few games to my list of games with horrible storylines:

NiGHTS into Dreams...

Final Fantasy VII

Super Mario Galaxy

The first two I've never played, but Mario Galaxy has a firm storyline that is rather mediocre.

Edited March 20, 2009 by ChaosSupremeSonic

[Phos]

The first two I've never played, but Mario Galaxy has a firm storyline that is rather mediocre.

Also, the storybook.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Also, the storybook.

It's still mediocre and lacking.

The only good thing about the story was Rosalina's history with the planet she was orbiting.

Edited March 20, 2009 by ChaosSupremeSonic

[a knothole resident]

No you're not alone, I too have started wondering just what is keeping me in the series.

I've been into Sonic pretty much since the days when I was a little kid, back in the classic era, and Sonic then was something that really got me excited. These days I have to force myself to not come to the realisation that I am cringing the whole way playing through the latest Sonic game.

I know it's had its problems for quite a while, but last years pathetic attempts is what finally managed to sway me. After the failures that were Sonic Chronicles and Unleashed - Sonic and the Black Knight is like the nail in the coffin.

I was truly excited for Sonic Chronicles, finally someone other than the incompetant Sonic Team were going to have a crack at Sonic..and it was an RPG, ripe for fleshing out the deep history of Sonic. I was expecting to see familair faces, stories, and locales - instead we got inconsistances and aliens.

Sonic Unleashed chose the path of cramming new unessacary characters into the game, whilst taking out the characters we cared about and replacng them with a tonne of humans. Then there was the fact this didn't even feel remotely like a Sonic game, where was the fantasy, the surrealism? All repleaced by lame realistic "our world" BS.

Now we have Sonic and the Black Knight, and the most ironic thing is that the best part of that game isn't even made by Sonic Team - its artwork made by the fans!, and whatsmore its artwork of Sonic when he was GOOD, ie; NONE of the recent games.

The hardest part is to see something you care so much about in such a sorry state - the worst part is making the decision whether its time to jump ship.

I honestly shouldn't have to sit there yelling at the game and whoever made it whilst waggling my flailing hand and cursing at the screen to try and make Sonic do something that will entertain me - what was the point of wasting my money on this? Seriously, I played SatBK once, and have only just picked it up again because to me it felt more like a chore to try complete it then it did anything resembling fun. And thats the sad part; Sonic games these days feel like chores.

In my heart I know that if I wasn't such a big fan there is no way I'd pay for such a flawed and worthless game - but thats just it, I am a fan of Sonic. I truly believe everyone is deluded, for the "oldies" sit around and complain about how Sonic sucks these days, yet still buy the games, and the "newbies" claim "this is the best Sonic evaaaaa!" to every piece of shit Sonic game that comes out, no matter how horrendus is is (SatBK)

I think what I read a while ago pretty much summed it up for me - it was that article where they interviewed the guy behind the idea for SatBK, and pretty much what I gathered from the interview was 'he wanted to do king arthur idea, and include Sonic'. This is the problem. They need to ditch these dickweed Sonic Team members that want their ideas made, just to see their own idea come to something. They shouldn't be making games based on what they want - they should be making them for what is good for Sonic.

Honestly, they are forever changing the direction of Sonic that there is never time to develop him. The older games worked because they found an idea that was received well, and they added upon that idea with sequels and slight additions as they went. These days its all about the gimmicks; Sonic has an airboard, Sonic has a sword, Sonic is a werewolf, Sonic and pirates, Sonic storybooks, olympic crap, on and on and on, there is never any "core" Sonic gameplay because they change every game.

For me Sonic was about simple fun gameplay in nice fantasy locations, interesting characters, and it was a fight with Dr.Robotnik who was an evil guy trying to pollute and enslave the world.

These days Sonic is all about the "realism", grungy citys that look like they could've been taken from GTA, realistic nature as though from some RPG, stupid generic robots.....its all lost its charm, Sonic Heroes was the last game (besides handhelds) where I felt like I was actually in Sonic's world. Sonic Team seem so hellbent on converting Sonic into our boring world that they went so far as to make "Sonic world adventure" or "Sonic Unleashed" and just flaunt that fact in our face.

Simple stories have been overrun with "epic" tales involving princesses and scepters, and will always end- (I put all my money on this) with some fcking stupid huuuge generic doomsday monster that some guy at Sonic Team apparently thought was cool and hadn't been done a thousand times over. These stories will usually have Sonic act so out of character its cheese level is of the highest level of cringeworthy, and those times where they actually remember Sonic was all about the attitude they miss the mark horribly, and we get some brain-melting turd of dialogue thats probably worse then the cheesy lines.

Dr.Robotnik/Eggman - the once competant villain of the series has been reduced to a laughing stock, a walking joke if you will. He either teams up with the good guys or loses out to previously mentioned generic doomsday monsters EVERY-FRICKEN-TIME! What happened to Sonic vs Eggman? Its dead.

But don't think Sonic Team are only gonna mess with the main villian, oh nooo hoo, they'll cram in useless new characters to steal what little time any of the familiar cast can get their hands on - evident most blatantly in Sonic Unleashed. They go so far as to steal the spotlight from even Sonic himself!?

Its all too overwhelming. Currently I get my Sonic fix from the comics; I seriously get more excited each month for those then I ever do for the games (though the time Sonic Team take with their games it almost seems like a monthly thing too)... It's sad to think that other mediums can portray the hedgehog I love better than his actual own company have done for years. The comics give Sonic depth and attitude that make the games look as flat as a board in comparison, and its even sadder that the most Sonic thing I feel I played last year was Sonic in Super Smash Bros Brawl - the very fact NINTENDO could make Sonic more fun then SEGA would have the me of my childhood shaking in the corner with puzzlement.

I wouldn't say I'm not a fan anymore, but I hear you when you say you're slipping. After the attrocity that is SatBK, I for one will not be going straight out and buying a Sonic game just because it has my hero on the front, I will definately be playing a friends copy or demo first to decide whether it is decent....and that in itself is saying something if a fan can't buy a game without seeing if it is good first.

I concur dude. In fact, I wish I read this eariler beforehand cause I made a similar post in a new topic. http://www.sonicstadium.org/board/index.php?showtopic=407

That being said, you certainly deserve a standing ovation for detailing the real issues with the recent games.