Welcome back to year 2005.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Hello everyone. Before I begin with the central point of this topic, I'd like to re-introduce myself to you all.

My name is ChaosSupremeSonic, or CSS for short.

*Fanbase: HI CSS!*

I grew up with the Classics since I was 2 years old, if not younger, and they were among the first games I've every played in my life. Sonic 3 And Knuckles is among my favorite games, and I hold it to the top as one of the greatest in the series. Who doesn't love to see Sonic run around in checkered hills and other surreal places? Sonic 1 was where it all started, and Sonic 2 delivered a new character, Miles "Tails" Prower, who despite being new, plays exactly like Sonic. When Sonic 3 and Knuckles came out, we were introduced to Knuckles, who added to Sonic's regular moveset with his ability to glide and climb walls. Tails was also given his ability to fly, which wasn't available in Sonic 2, while Sonic gained a new ability to use the elemental shields to extend his abilities. I love the Classics so much that I'm quite a classic fan.

But wait, there's MOAR! When Sonic Adventure came out, I was psyched that Sonic went 3D. The gameplay for it's time was stellar. Sonic got some new moves that made the game interesting from previous games, and other characters came through and added to the experience. The story was also something unexpected and thrilling, with Chaos betraying Eggman and destroying the city, with the epic finale of Super Sonic kicking its ass. Then we get SA2, with Shadow and Rouge added to the game to balance with their rivals Sonic and Knuckles. We got to see a much darker and complex game that flowed so well for it's time and delivered such a thrill that it was practically regarded as the pinnicle in Sonic's life for quite a while. We saw more development of the characters, and a look at Eggman's relatives. Needless to say, the enjoyment I got from these two games was beyond what I experience. To that extent, I consider myself a modern fan, who looks foward to any new idea that does well in adding more to the experience of playing a Sonic game.

To this day, I enjoy the best of both worlds, and I'm am therefore a Classic AND Modern fan. Despite this, I don't consider myself the ideal fan...okay, I'll be honest, sometimes I do. But what I'm saying is that even while I prefer the best of both, some prefer one or the other.

Now, on to the point. Ever since the advent of the SegaBlog displaying the characters who would be playable in Project Needlemouse, this fanbase has jumped back to the same state it was 5 years ago. We hopped out of the frying pan and danced in the oven several times in the past and now we've once again separated ourselves and started World War III with the Classic vs Modern war, all because of Project Needlemouse. Five years ago it was the Modern fans who felt trampled over their likings by the Classic fans, and now the Classic fans are feeling the bane they've given the Modern fans as karma takes a toll on them 5 years later.

I find it interesting how the only game that brought us together since SA2 was Unleashed, and only the more extreme fans separated themselves during the advent of that game. Since the news on Project Needlemouse, there's been feelings of happiness while skepticism and pessimism have also reared their heads. At first it was Classic fans who were the skeptics and pessimists with the Modern fans excited for a new game, now it's the other way around. To be perfectly honest, I don't even think it's really the Modern Fans who are being skeptical, it's those of the third tier of fans: the group of fans I am a part of, those who are fans of both Classic AND Modern fans who know of the possibilities of this game going either way. As Classic fans get excited over Project Needlemouse bringing back a taste of the Classics with a promise of Sonic only and surreal worlds and badniks with nothing present from Modern games, those who are fans of both worlds have been very wary and highly objective over what is being promised for this game, having heard the same thing for previous games that arguably failed to deliever on their quality.

There's no denying that at heart, all fans want a good Sonic game. Unfortunately, as we all know, the factors that make up a good Sonic game is entirely subjective. Classic fans would like what they've experienced in the past, Modern fans would love to have a greater experience different from the last game, while the universal fans want in general a great Sonic game of which they firmly believe can combine the best of both worlds that is far from impossible to achieve. That's not to say all of us fit in just one or the other catagorie, but this is in its simplest form.

But now we're right back where we were 5 years ago, with character arguments and the well-known Old vs. New debate, with fans throwing slag and acting an ass towards one another for the simplest and silliest of reasons. If you like Tails more than Silver, Classic fans get the feeling they'll be hassled and accused of being blinded by nostalgia, where as if you so much as see good use in Shadow other than killing him off in the series Modern fans feel a state of unfairness when they're told that the character is utterly useless.

We've been through this before, and for some reason when some try to make progress compromises, they always seem to be chewed up, spat on, and stepped on for whatever reason.

Do we really have to go through a repeat of the past? Sonic isn't the only thing many are worried about regressing.

Your thoughts?

Edited January 17, 2010 by ChaosSupremeSonic

[SuperStingray]

But now we're right back where we were 5 years ago, with character arguments and the well-known Old vs. New debate, with fans throwing slag and acting an ass towards one another for the simplest and silliest of reasons. If you like Tails more than Silver, Classic fans get the feeling they'll be hassled and accused of being blinded by nostalgia, where as if you so much as see good use in Shadow other than killing him off in the series Modern fans feel a state of unfairness when they're told that the character is utterly useless.

We've been through this before, and for some reason when some try to make progress compromises, they always seem to be chewed up, spat on, and stepped on for whatever reason.

Do we really have to go through a repeat of the past? Sonic isn't the only thing many are worried about regressing.

Your thoughts?

It's just human nature. People feel threatened by change and especially those who support it. Sonic is a character that most of us grew up with from a young age, so a lot of the backlash is not just nerdrage, it's instinctual. It's easily arguable that Sonic has changed more than any other game franchise in history, so obviously a lot of conflict arises from that. Whichever element we saw him in during our youth is the one we hold close, and if anything gets in the way of that, shit will fly.

I really couldn't be more in favor of Needlemouse. (At least the proposition of it; I can't truly say anything about it yet.) In fact, I think it may be the most important installment in this series since Sonic 1. While I don't want the series to end up constrained on one set path forever, I don't want it to continue veering off ninety degrees. Considering that virtually no one on Sonic Team today was on Sonic Team back then, it should at the very least be learning experience; a chance to better understand the diverse interests of this fanbase from a new angle, or rather an old one. If it fails at that, though... I can't see much hope for the future.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

It's just human nature. People feel threatened by change and especially those who support it. Sonic is a character that most of us grew up with from a young age, so a lot of the backlash is not just nerdrage, it's instinctual. It's easily arguable that Sonic has changed more than any other game franchise in history, so obviously a lot of conflict arises from that. Whichever element we saw him in during our youth is the one we hold close, and if anything gets in the way of that, shit will fly.

It's not entirely the neophobia I attacking here tho. It's also the retrophobia as well.

I can understand how change can feel threatening, but honestly the way it is being handled is more like nerdrage than anything else from my perspective. Though maybe that's just me trying to make some logical sense in it.

A potential good idea is shit from conception, while a good blast from the past is a sign of the end of things to come. But then again, this is the Sonic fanbase. I don't really explore too much on the outside of fanbases, but it seems they take skepticism a little lighter than this one. Shit doesn't exactly fly with fire with some as it does with this one. One little idea, be it old or new is coupled with "OMFG! Sonic's got a new friend/going back to his roots! This is teh SUXXOR!" by the more extreme sides of the fandom. I might be looking to deep here, but I've seen this quite a lot in the past and since then things looked a bit more lighter than it does now.

I really couldn't be more in favor of Needlemouse. (At least the proposition of it; I can't truly say anything about it yet.) In fact, I think it may be the most important installment in this series since Sonic 1. While I don't want the series to end up constrained on one set path forever, I don't want it to continue veering off ninety degrees. Considering that virtually no one on Sonic Team today was on Sonic Team back then, it should at the very least be learning experience; a chance to better understand the diverse interests of this fanbase from a new angle, or rather an old one. If it fails at that, though... I can't see much hope for the future.

I don't think it is that much of a bad idea to take a trip to the past in this case, since we should know that it's not going to be a permanent trip.

Though with the new Sonic Team's track record, it's reason enough for many to be skeptical of how they'll pull this off. But while they're doing that, Classic fans seem to fuss at them saying that "Modern fans are just complaining about them not getting what they want" when that's not entirely the case here. The skeptics are just being skeptic, and see no sense in getting too excited when Sonic Team have made such similar promises in the past and more or less failed to deliver, and I'm not trying to be hypocritical when I say that as much as it may come across to some people reading this.

I'm not going to be in denial tho, there may be a lot of modern fans tripping balls that this game is going to it's roots for the classic fans. It's only fair that they get the experience they've long wanted, but pretty soon the modern fans who are tripping over this game will get over it when they know Sonic Team aren't going to completely re-write everything they love. As Blacklightning well put it:

Honestly, would you knock down and rebuild an entire building over a few loose bricks?

While there are some people against Project Needlemouse, this game is nothing but another brick in the building. Unless they've got some pretty decent writers, they're not going to retcon the series and start all the way over anytime soon, especially when whatever faults this series have is far from impossible to fix.

[azoo]

I pretty much have now noticed how close the Sonic fanbase is to American politics.

First of all, we love a hedgehog based around freedom, speed, whimsy and the colors red, white and blue. But we all knew that.

The problem is that our fanbase will never agree because were so diverse thanks to what Sega has chalked up over the years. Every time we argue about something, it will always connect to central argument of Classic vs Modern, no matter what. The reason why is because whenever we talk characters, environments, stories, gameplay, or anything, it will always come back to "because I like x era of Sonic", and one gets offended, and flamewars ensue. I won't lie, I'm an offender in all this, but most others don't have the right to lie about either, as they do it too. Let me demonstrate what I meant by "like American politics":

Classic fans are Republicans / Conservatives. They want things to stay the way they were, because they think things were flat-out awesome with the series at the time, and usually want the series to stay short, sweet, simple and to the point. In other words, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it." They don't need much change, and there is obviously an invisible line between what's right and what's wrong. They believe anything really is alright as long as it isn't crossing the line. Also like conservatives, classic fans tend to get hostile about their beliefs and can become complete jerks to people if pushed far enough. They come in all shapes and sizes; to where there are some who may be a little lineant torwards some modern stuff, and where some are elitest buttholes who won't take anything except what they see under their eyes as what's right. They DO have a problem with telling people that their opinion = fact, but that is actually pretty widespread across both sides.

Modern fans are Democrats / Liberals. Since modern fans are used to the Sonic series having so much constant changing and variety, they always think change and complexity is the right way to go. They think the Sonic series should always be giving off new ideas and a wide expansion of things like storyline and characters. They hate to see Sega sit Sonic still because they think that simple games in wide load would make the series stale and boring and simplicity is too much dumbing down of what Sega has given them. And although they do get quite a bit of flak over time, most of them only blockade their opinions with "blah blah blah you guys are elitest queers who are blinded by nostalgia blah blah blah I'm not listening to what you say because you're wrong" even though, like liberals, whenever something is told to them to prove them wrong, they ignore what was said and continue talking about something else to cover up what was proven, scientific or otherwise.

Then there's the side who likes both classic and modern Sonic, aka the Independent catagory. These people take both sides with love and care and just want everybody to get along. These people also tend to have qualities of both sides, meaning they could possibly be the most dangerous of all of them, despite their want for everybody to just get along.

Last but not least, like politics, it's come to prove that neither side will ever get along, despite several thousand attempts to get them to work together. Both sides have completely different mindsets and won't ever give them up for the other, which makes the battle hard to pertain.

All I can say is that Sega acknowledged all this, and is probably deciding to make one game for classic fans, and one game for modern fans, rinse lather repeat. I'm sure this is the way it'll be from now on. And this warzone SSMB has become is the reason why I've posting on here alot less lately. I'd rather not be in this fight, because I know with my classic fan / conservative mindset, somebody won't like my opinion just as much as I wouldn't like theirs, and would unwillingly be pulled in the war myself.

So as for now, I may be posting some, but expect me just to lurk some until more (awesome) info comes out for Needlemouse (if I even come out then, because I'm sure the war will just get worse if it really IS the classic revival I think and hope it is).

[Diogenes]

I think one of the big problems is that both sides have to keep topping the other. The louder one side yells, the louder the other has to yell to be heard over them. And it's been going back and forth for years. Our screams can now shatter planets...so what hope does calm, rational thought have against them?

[Scarlet2106]

I want Sonic 4, Sonic Adventure 3, Sonic Heroes 2, Sonic Battle 2, Sonic Rush 3 and Sonic Unleashed 2. I want Sonic only, I want all the characters, I want team-based gameplay, I want more than one story, I want 2D, I want 3D, I want Sonic Team Japan, I want Sonic Team USA (I know they've been absorbed back into Sonic Team Japan. I also think it sucks), I want everything.

In fact, the only thing I specifically want instead of something else is for the music to go back to the way it was before Chronicles, Unleashed and Black Knight. Sonic 1 - Secret Rings plus the Riders games had the best music. But maybe that's because I generally don't seem to like much of anything at all these past few years.

Other than that, I both love and hate the 'side' problem.

On one hand, it means Sega's games will possibly be in constant directional flux.

On the other, it means they could just choose to go with a specific 'side' and stick with it.

Edited January 17, 2010 by Arcane

[Machenstein]

I really don't see what the problem is. I am a classic Sonic fan and I can tolerate modern Sonic just fine. I admit that I even enjoy some modern Sonic things. I have fond memories of the Adventure games and I quite enjoy the Advance and Rush games despite not being 100% classic Sonic. Even Sonic Unleashed had plenty of redeeming qualities despite the problems it had. Even as a classic Sonic fan, I am not afraid to admit that modern Sonic can be very likeable when done right.

But I am still a classic Sonic fan and, as much good as I see in modern Sonic, I will always prefer classic Sonic so much more. As much as I like some the modern stuff, I absolutely adore classic Sonic. I adore the Genesis games, Sonic CD, some of the 8-BIT games (especially Sonic Triple Trouble), Sonic OVA and even some of the Saturn era stuff. I love the Felix the Cat character designs, the badniks, the flickies, the checkerboard patterns, the crazy geometrical shapes, the liberal use of primary colors, the 90's technopop music, the Genesis sound effects, the intricate level designs, the Newtonian physics, the starposts, the special stages, and pretty much anything else that can be considered classic Sonic.

Is it nostalgia? Maybe, but how then did I enjoy classic Sonic when I first discovered it as a child? I didn't have nostalgia by my side as a child, yet I enjoyed classic Sonic anyway. As far as I was concerned, there was no such thing as classic Sonic because it was just as new as modern Sonic back then. Classic Sonic was basically modern Sonic, if you can make sense of that. The only reason why we use the terms "classic" and "modern" is to make a distinction between the two primary art styles of Sonic. It's the same reason why the distinction between Link and Toon Link was made. The two art styles are obviously different enough for a distinction to be made.

But that is beside the point. Classic Sonic fans enjoy classic Sonic, not because it is old, but simply because it is good. Classic Sonic has plenty of great qualities and we wish more people would appreciate those qualities. It disheartens us when some of you say that you have lost interest in Project Needlemouse just because it is classic Sonic. When did classic Sonic become a bad thing anyway? There is nothing inherently bad about classic Sonic and the same goes for modern Sonic. I may like classic Sonic better, but that's part of what makes me an individual. The same might go for you and your preference for modern Sonic.

Classic Sonic makes me happy. If modern Sonic makes you happy, then I'm happy for you too. All that matters to me is if you enjoy Sonic and that you are happy. I am happy that there are Sonic games that you enjoy. Don't you want us classic Sonic fans to be happy too?

[Light]

I just want a good Sonic game. I don't care about the classic/modern shit. It's the same video game character and given his iconic status everyone is going to have high expectations whenever someone says something along the lines of "Sonic is going back to his roots". I'm extremely glad that there isn't a lot of information about Project Needlemouse right now because I'll be more surprised if it turns out to be great than disappointed if it turns out mediocre.

Edited January 17, 2010 by Light

[SuperStingray]

I pretty much have now noticed how close the Sonic fanbase is to American politics.

First of all, we love a hedgehog based around freedom, speed, whimsy and the colors red, white and blue. But we all knew that.

I've considered it more along the lines of a Cold War allegory. Sonic's red, white and blue, Robotnik has a Russian name and dresses in red and yellow, the animals/robots are like the working class, and, well, I think the rest explains itself.

In fact, the Cold War is sort of what this conflict is like. Bad mouthing the other side's ideals without any actual violence. And the way anyone is put on the spot by retrofans when they admit to liking a post-Adventure game or character is like McCarthyism, except with "furry" replacing "communist."

[Badnik Zero]

I think the big problem is that we think the other side is stupid, so we don't listen to each other.

"Oh you like this Badnik? WELL THE GAME ISN'T GOING TO BE GOOD JUST BECAUSE IT'S 2D! PEOPLE LIKE YOU ARE..."

"Oh you liked Shadow the Hedgehog? THERE IS NOTHING SONIC ABOUT THIS GAME! PEOPLE LIKE YOU RUIN..."

I think the next time things get heated, the blaming isn't necessary. Neither are the harsh accusations. People need to chill.

[Nepenthe]

Personally, I consider myself an independent fan with significantly modern leanings. I grew up playing the classics and watching AoStH, but I was too young to look back on the actual games with fondness as opposed to how Sonic was engrained in my childhood. I don't deny that they're good games, but pinball physics don't hold a candle to how happy I was whenever my brother just wanted to play Sonic 3 with me; That's what ultimately mattered. Now, Sonic Adventure is where I formally consider the start of my bonafide Sonic fandom. It was the first Sonic game I found myself truly enthralled with, and I took up a significantly greater interest in the actual franchise itself when it and Adventure 2 were released. So naturally, I put more stake and interest in the newer games instead. They just simply appeal to me more.

But I really don't care which way you lean. It's just not a concern of mine as are most of the issues we argue about. I try to take it all in stride and find some amusement in it, because I figured if I really reacted any other way then I'd be a very pissed off individual within the community. Or specifically, more pissed off than I usually am; I won't deny that I resent how badly the modern fandom is treated during times like this. I can't help but feel I'm too often stereotyped as someone with poor taste, poor judgement, or someone who actively has a hand in 'destroying' a franchise that I love just as much as everyone else here. I don't want to be made out as this lower-level Sonic fan or something. I want people to respect my side of the fandom just as I try my damned hardest to respect theirs. Let's discuss what we love instead of always trying to devalue the other side and its fans.

Heh. And to think, all of the "controversy" we've had that's led us to this newest reflection thread is still the result of a grave misunderstanding. There was some really thick tension in the air regardless because of the game's level of hype, but when people expressed disappointment over the decidedly simple nature of the bonus prize, it was misconstrued as an attack on the actual game and classic ideals and fans itself. Cue defensive reaction, ignite silly arguing, and here we are today. We were just way too quick to unearth the hatchet, and no one took a second to think and figure out what was really going on. Good job, guys.

[Machenstein]

Let's discuss what we love instead of always trying to devalue the other side and its fans.

This is the best approach. Why try to assert the superiority of your tastes by knocking the tastes of other fans? If your tastes are so much better than our tastes, why do you feel the need to belittle the opinions of other fans to make your opinion seem better? It does come across as insecure, almost as if you don't genuinely believe that your opinion is the right one after all. So you try to justify your opinion by attacking the opinions of others in the form of strawman arguments. In this case, a modern Sonic fan would say, "Oh, you're a classic Sonic fan, you're just blinded by nostalgia." Whereas a classic Sonic fan would say, "Oh, you're a new Sonic fan, you wouldn't know what taste is." I guess the saying is true: you have to be little to belittle.

I believe that classic Sonic fans in general just need to accept that there are likable qualities about modern Sonic despite their bad experiences with the new games. It is not the worse style Sega could have picked for Sonic and, yes, it does exude a certain charm albeit a very different charm from classic Sonic. But on the other side of the coin, I wish modern Sonic fans can appreciate the minimalist charm of classic Sonic. Yes, classic Sonic is cutesy and simplistic, but that's because it's suppose to be cute and simplistic. That's what makes classic Sonic so appealing. It's the same reason why adults love Charlie Brown cartoons so much. There's nostalgia, but there's also the fact that Charlie Brown exudes an air of innocence that hasn't been replicated by anything else since. People generally crave innocence and that is why so many people love classic Sonic.

So open your mind. Open your mind to the minimalist character designs, the bright colors, the geometrical shapes, the badniks, the flickies, the surreal levels, the 90's technopop, and all things classic Sonic. You don't have to forego your taste in modern Sonic, just try to appreciate the classic Sonic experience. Play Sonic CD, watch those awesome anime cutscenes, or if that's not your cup of tea, play Sonic 2 or Sonic 3 & Knuckles. Look at the artwork from Sonic Jam or watch that short Man of the Year cartoon. Watch Sonic OVA and laugh as Knuckles catches his hat on fire. If not, stay for the awesome fight scenes between Sonic and Metal Sonic. You will not regret it.

Edited January 17, 2010 by Maruyama

[Sean]

I don't see anybody on this board who actually takes sides on these debates that everybody points out over and over. Everybody I see within a 500 mile radius is basically saying the same things, commenting on these apparent debates that only show up because everybody keeps critiquing them.

People are making out problems where there aren't. Maybe they just love hearing themselves talk.

[Kiljoy]

I think Sega should pick a direction and go with it, if you piss off a group of fans then fuck'em, they can't please everyone and in the attempt they have screwed up the franchise.

[Machenstein]

I honestly wouldn't know whether or not these debates existed in the first place. I frequent Sonic Retro (as Machenstein) so I wouldn't exactly know what happens here. I heard there was some commotion about classic Sonic verses modern Sonic again, so I thought that I would try my hand at resolving the supposed conflict. Again, I don't see what the problem is, but if there is a problem, I'm always willing to help clear things up.

[azoo]

Okay, I will admit, I was being really overly pessimistic in what I wrote earlier. Maybe it's because I was just peeved about it when I encountered it in the Needlemouse thread the day or two before? Well, I guess that was it. It's just that I feel like I've been attacked rapidly whenever I haven't meant to pick a fight with anyone this whole time. "Blinded by nostalgia"? What kind of crap..? And when people claimed it as "we're getting what we deserved".. that bugged the living crap outta me, especially since I try not to fight about the classic vs modern scenario.

It may be hard to realize, but I like both sides of Sonic-dom actually. It's just that, like Maruyama; I stand for, defend, and honor the classic Sonic side so much more than the modern side because the fact that it had so much good going for it, and modern Sonic has has so much bad going for it. I don't hate modern Sonic's design (in fact, I actually like lanky Nextgen Sonic to an extent!), and really I don't care what Sega does with the series as long as it isn't really ridiculous and unlike the series to do such (which is why I have had a problem with SatBK, Shadow, Nextgen, and some bits of Unleashed). The only part of the classics I really want protected and kept in the series is the gameplay and the environment style, because that is all truly what made Sonic to begin with, and to remove those things in favor for "speedspeedspeed", that's like replacing Mario's gameplay with nothing but jumping because Mario is known for jumping.

And really I sort of lied whenever I said "there's no way to really fix a solid mixture of classic and modern" from my pessimism earlier, because I've been thinking of how to for years already, and I think I have good idea how. =P I was happy to know that games like Sonic Advance shown new and old Sonic could easily fuse together into one big dealio, but my point from earlier is obviously not the games, but the fans in general. The deal is that there's a high chance there could be a Sonic game that successfully blends classic and modern (that is, fuse together classic and modern characters and environments but keep classic gameplay), but no matter what it still won't fix the fanbase. They'll still bicker that one thing in their little "plan of perfectionness" isn't there, and then more flamewars and then it'll be elitist classic fans and elitist modern fans BAWWWing at each other while the "independent" Sonic fans will all be going "Hey I don't know what you're talking about this is awesome." =P

This is the best approach. Why try to assert the superiority of your tastes by knocking the tastes of other fans? If your tastes are so much better than our tastes, why do you feel the need to belittle the opinions of other fans to make your opinion seem better? It does come across as insecure, almost as if you don't genuinely believe that your opinion is the right one after all. So you try to justify your opinion by attacking the opinions of others in the form of strawman arguments. In this case, a modern Sonic fan would say, "Oh, you're a classic Sonic fan, you're just blinded by nostalgia." Whereas a classic Sonic fan would say, "Oh, you're a new Sonic fan, you wouldn't know what taste is." I guess the saying is true: you have to be little to belittle.

I believe that classic Sonic fans in general just need to accept that there are likable qualities about modern Sonic despite their bad experiences with the new games. It is not the worse style Sega could have picked for Sonic and, yes, it does exude a certain charm albeit a very different charm from classic Sonic. But on the other side of the coin, I wish modern Sonic fans can appreciate the minimalist charm of classic Sonic. Yes, classic Sonic is cutesy and simplistic, but that's because it's suppose to be cute and simplistic. That's what makes classic Sonic so appealing. It's the same reason why adults love Charlie Brown cartoons so much. There's nostalgia, but there's also the fact that Charlie Brown exudes an air of innocence that hasn't been replicated by anything else since. People generally crave innocence and that is why so many people love classic Sonic.

So open your mind. Open your mind to the minimalist character designs, the bright colors, the geometrical shapes, the badniks, the flickies, the surreal levels, the 90's technopop, and all things classic Sonic. You don't have to forego your taste in modern Sonic, just try to appreciate the classic Sonic experience. Play Sonic CD, watch those awesome anime cutscenes, or if that's not your cup of tea, play Sonic 2 or Sonic 3 & Knuckles. Look at the artwork from Sonic Jam or watch that short Man of the Year cartoon. Watch Sonic OVA and laugh as Knuckles catches his hat on fire. If not, stay for the awesome fight scenes between Sonic and Metal Sonic. You will not regret it.

Agreed with this as well. Is there anything we don't agree on, Maruyama?

EDIT: And HOLY CRAP you're Machenstein! I had no idea! XD

Edited January 17, 2010 by Azukara

[Phos]

I actually see things a little differently. I would say that fans of certain newer games have their preferences more steeped in nostalgia than they care to admit.

[Machenstein]

I actually see things a little differently. I would say that fans of certain newer games have their preferences more steeped in nostalgia than they care to admit.

I agree with this notion. Modern Sonic fans generally came around the time Sonic Adventure 2 came out and that was pretty long ago, nine years to be exact. Modern fans fondly remember the days of Sonic streetboarding down the steep roads of City Escape and Shadow grinding on rails down the bridges of Radical Highway. Perhaps modern Sonic fans reserve just as much nostalgia for their version of Sonic as classic fans do.

Nostalgia for classic Sonic also started around this time since the release of Sonic Adventure 2 coincided with Sonic's 10th anniversary, a time when Sonic's roots were heavily celebrated. This created a circle of fans that pined for the days of classic Sonic, so they started a movement that would continue to this very day. I believe this movement intially started at The GHZ and went on to flourish at places such as Sonic CulT and Sonic Stuff. They had an elitist approach back then and they still do now. They put in more effort devaluing modern Sonic than they put effort into praising classic Sonic and that was when the fandom started to divide. Bitterness and insecurity abounded and classic Sonic purists were provided more fuel to devalue modern Sonic as the games received progressively worse reception. Modern Sonic fans became increasingly defensive and then they started a movement of their own. The rest is pretty much history.

Edited January 17, 2010 by Maruyama

[Phos]

Sonic Cult had an elites attitude because they needed to. If they didn't, they wouldn't have been able to keep away people who would have been detrimental to their research and they wanted a more mature userbase than the internet at large could offer at the time.

[Machenstein]

Don't get me wrong, Sonic CulT was innately elitist, but the anti-modern Sonic movement did somewhat resonate with them. I also don't intend to demonize places such as The GHZ, but that is where the classic Ohshima-loving fanboy trend started.

Edited January 18, 2010 by Maruyama

[AuroraRedwinters]

Those "modern" fans should be thanking us "classic" fans... if it weren't for us loving Sonic like we did back in the 90's: playing the games, watching the cartoons, buying the merchandise, then you might not have your Shadow's, rail grinding, and Jason Griffith today.

[S0NIC-Keyblade 007]

Hmm what kind of Sonic fan am I? Well at the age of about 4 or so, Sonic 1 & 2 were the very first video games I ever played though they weren't my games they belonged to my neighborhood friend (he was about a year younger than me), I would always play them with my friend on his Sega Genesis and then one year on christmas day, I was given a copy of Sonic CD for the PC. I imediately fell in love with the game and began to buy every Sonic game that came out since then. So I guess I could be considered a Classic Sonic fan since I pretty much started my Sonic journey with the classics and since I have so many wonderful childhood memories playing Sonic 1, 2, CD, 3 & Knuckles, etc. However, as much as I loved the classic era, I still enjoy Sonic's modern games. I don't care what anyone says about the games of yesterday, toady, or tomorrow, as long as the games make me happy, that's all that really matters to me. But about the whole Modern Sonic vs. Classic Sonic, I think the thing is alot of people simply don't like change. It's normal to want to hold on to what you grew up with as a child which is why alot of Classic Sonic fans simply can't let go of the past. And this doesn't just occur in the Sonic fanbase it happens to all sorts games, TV shows, comics, etc. I'll use Pokemon as an example since it's the only thing I can think of right now at the top of my head :/. At the end of the season 5 anime when Misty left and May and Max joined the crew, many fans became angry and began to dislike the new characters along with the new Pokemon region and overall path the anime was moving in. Jump a few years later, May and Max leave, Dawn joins the crew, and we have the whole thing all over again. Change is inevitable and finding people who appose change is also inevitable.

The Sonic fanbase has gotten so out of control that I stopped chatting on Sonic forums completely for the past two years or so. It wasn't until I came across this forum and was influenced to join by the high inteligence alot of the members here have. This fanbase is so corrupted from our own segregation that it may never heal, though we as the fans made this mess, we still complain to SEGA about their inability to create a decent Sonic game and listen to their fans. How can they possibly listen to their fans when we are so diverse from one another? For Sonic's sake, it is up to us as the fans to fix the mess that we made and stop this senseless war. The bottom line is that we all enjoy Sonic the Hedgehog in one form or another, isn't that enough of a reason for us to get along? I always did wonder if Sonic was real, what would he think of his so called "fanbase".

Edited January 18, 2010 by S0NIC Toadstool